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Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders or Lamont Wade

Thank you very much for your intelligent, non-insulting comments. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year!

Tell you what, Skippy....why not wait and see how Franklin is doing in his late 70's/early to mid 80's (assuming he is still around), and then we can compare notes.

Or as others have suggested - take Joe at his prime, with whatever recruiting structures were in place, and see how he fares against Franklin now.

You are comparing apples to oranges, Skipster.
 
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Sure he would have, but not in the last decade maybe. You have to be pretty young to think a young Paterno wasn't an elite recruiter. I can rattle off a ton of HS AA's that Joe landed and that list is very long and very impressive.
 
I know I will get a ton of negative feedback regarding this post, but all due respect to JoePa (and I appreciate everything he did for Penn State), Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders from Woodland Hills and Lamont Wade from Clairton. Joe should have been gone years before November 9, 2011, for football reasons. He was unable to make visits to recruits homes, and many kids had a difficult time relating to people of Joe's age. Again, this is no disrespect to a man who built Penn State football into a national power, not to mention the $4 million dollars he gave for Patee. Terry Smith played at Gateway High School, played at Penn State, and coached at Gateway High School. Kids relate to Terry, and Coach Franklin. We are extremely fortunate to have the coaching staff we currently have. I hope James Franklin is our coach for many years to come! WE ARE!

I think he (Joe) would have had as good a shot as anybody else.
Not sure if you remember or not but before he was "retired" in Nov. his incoming class was ranked very high.
And if you are or were talking about Joe in his prime. 70's, 80's and early 90's he could out recruit anyone.
 
If I loved someone I would not want them coaching power five football past the age of 65. Far too much pressure in todays' game. Most agree, even among some who loved Joe sincerely, that he stayed far too long. Most fans agree that he would have been best served to have retired after the 90's ended. I wish to God he would have, for so many reasons, not the least of which was the resulting scandal that took place while he was still coaching.
 
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Even in Joe's last quarter he bagged Lavar Arrington and Brandon Short. Lavar was easily the most heralded recruit ever to come out of Western Pa. He was sought after from the time he was in 9th grade.

Joe was a fantastic recruiter his whole life, even near the end.

Short came from McKeesport and Lavar from North Hills. The schools we had problems with were Woodland Hills, Clairton and Aliquippa. Not sure why, but that seems to be changing under Franklin. Bradley and Joe brought in plenty of good recruits from Western PA. Your can add Pos, Lee, Morelli, Sales, Shipley, Dieffenbach, Hull, King to name a few who were important contributors.
 
Short came from McKeesport and Lavar from North Hills. The schools we had problems with were Woodland Hills, Clairton and Aliquippa. Not sure why, but that seems to be changing under Franklin. Bradley and Joe brought in plenty of good recruits from Western PA. Your can add Pos, Lee, Morelli, Sales, Shipley, Dieffenbach, Hull, King to name a few who were important contributors.

That doesn't "seem to be" changing.

That HAS changed.

Woody High and Clairton have been checked off, only Aliquippa is left.

And we're coming for Aliquippa very very soon.
 
Joe, at nearly 80 years of age, brought in that great 2005 class and followed it with another outstanding class for 2006,. Both classes became the core of the 2008 B1G Champs. People said that no one could close the deal on a recruit like Joe could.

Mike Robinson, c. 2001 was one of the top recruits east of the Mississippi. Joe was about age 75. Mike related so well to Joe that not only did he come to PSU over any school of his choosing, he spoke eloquently at Joe's memorial service and stated that Joe never lied to him - something highly ethical people of any age can relate to.

Joe didn't land all his top targets in his last 10 years or so (no one does!), but 85%+ of the schools in the country would have loved to have had his haul on signing days during that time.

Joe earned the right to retire on his terms. I wish he had retired sooner, too, but I was willing to be ok with ok seasons and decent bowls to allow the man to go out as he wanted.
PSU winning was never the most important thing. Came to understand that better as I got older; got that idea from JVP.

65? Too young anymore in many cases. Joe was physically ok, and still very mentally sharp at 75+. Past his peak, but better than most. It is reasonable to think that many people in good physical and mental health can lead and get things done at a high level into their mid-70s and even a little later.
 
Joe, at nearly 80 years of age, brought in that great 2005 class and followed it with another outstanding class for 2006,. Both classes became the core of the 2008 B1G Champs. People said that no one could close the deal on a recruit like Joe could.

Mike Robinson, c. 2001 was one of the top recruits east of the Mississippi. Joe was about age 75. Mike related so well to Joe that not only did he come to PSU over any school of his choosing, he spoke eloquently at Joe's memorial service and stated that Joe never lied to him - something highly ethical people of any age can relate to.

Joe didn't land all his top targets in his last 10 years or so (no one does!), but 85%+ of the schools in the country would have loved to have had his haul on signing days during that time.

Joe earned the right to retire on his terms. I wish he had retired sooner, too, but I was willing to be ok with ok seasons and decent bowls to allow the man to go out as he wanted.
PSU winning was never the most important thing. Came to understand that better as I got older; got that idea from JVP.

65? Too young anymore in many cases. Joe was physically ok, and still very mentally sharp at 75+. Past his peak, but better than most. It is reasonable to think that many people in good physical and mental health can lead and get things done at a high level into their mid-70s and even a little later.

Good concise argument. 4 stars.
 
If I loved someone I would not want them coaching power five football past the age of 65. Far too much pressure in todays' game. Most agree, even among some who loved Joe sincerely, that he stayed far too long. Most fans agree that he would have been best served to have retired after the 90's ended. I wish to God he would have, for so many reasons, not the least of which was the resulting scandal that took place while he was still coaching.
so you are saying Nick Saban should have retired, or should retire after this season. He turned 65 this year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Saban
 
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so you are saying Nick Saban should have retired, or should retire after this season. He turned 65 this year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Saban

His slide will be fast and far. Watch and see. Not this year, maybe not next, but within the next 5 years, he will fall. He'll miss on a few kids. His hit rate is off the charts insane right now, but he WILL miss because everyone does. When he misses, and the shape of the game changes again(football changes in how it's played every 5 years), he will fall far, and fast.
 
If I loved someone I would not want them coaching power five football past the age of 65. Far too much pressure in todays' game. Most agree, even among some who loved Joe sincerely, that he stayed far too long. Most fans agree that he would have been best served to have retired after the 90's ended. I wish to God he would have, for so many reasons, not the least of which was the resulting scandal that took place while he was still coaching.

Pressure? That's something you put on yourself. When you are as accomplished as Joe, Saban, Meyers (and that select few) you no longer worry about what people do, say or write about you. I mean, seriously, would an decent coach be worried about Cory Geiger or Ben Jones' writing?
 
Even in Joe's last quarter he bagged Lavar Arrington and Brandon Short. Lavar was easily the most heralded recruit ever to come out of Western Pa. He was sought after from the time he was in 9th grade.

Joe was a fantastic recruiter his whole life, even near the end.

We all have differing opinions about Joe near the end. I think he did what he could, which was a lot for his age. But the internet and recruiting sites completely changed the ball game. I don't think we could consistently compete with top recruits once Joe started to decline. Franklin has moved us in a position now that we can start being back to elite status. But it will be tough w/ Urb and Harb.
 
Weren't Derrick Williams and Justin King "5 star" RB & DB (respectively) recruits a few years ago?

Joe sure as hell got them, and we were coming off 3-9 & 4-7 seasons.
 
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Weren't Derrick Williams and Justin King "5 star" RB & DB (respectively) recruits a few years ago?

Joe sure as hell got them, and we were coming off 3-9 & 4-7 seasons.
Justin King was another great get by Joe. He was from Gateway High School in Monroeville. Terry Smith coached there at the time. King was the top Western Pa. recruit that year and was rated 5 stars.
 
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I know I will get a ton of negative feedback regarding this post, but all due respect to JoePa (and I appreciate everything he did for Penn State), Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders from Woodland Hills and Lamont Wade from Clairton. Joe should have been gone years before November 9, 2011, for football reasons. He was unable to make visits to recruits homes, and many kids had a difficult time relating to people of Joe's age. Again, this is no disrespect to a man who built Penn State football into a national power, not to mention the $4 million dollars he gave for Patee. Terry Smith played at Gateway High School, played at Penn State, and coached at Gateway High School. Kids relate to Terry, and Coach Franklin. We are extremely fortunate to have the coaching staff we currently have. I hope James Franklin is our coach for many years to come! WE ARE!
I don't usually reply to posts like this but this post is just plain stupid, dumb, idiotic, ridiculous, and uncalled for.
Go Away.
 
I know this will sound douchey but at what time do we stop chasing down this rabbit hole? I understand the discussion and I lived through the ENTIRE period of Joe's head coaching. I don't think Bama fans seemed as obsessed with comparing everything to Bear as our fan base does with Joe. I get it and how feelings will remain because of the dismissal and tarnishing. But at some point, the FOOTBALL aspect at least has to move on from Rip, Joe, and O'Brien doesn't it?

This team just completed arguably the most satisfying season on field and the recruiting cycle seems to be gathering ridiculous momentum but this shows up?!?! I'm focused on USC, the Rose Bowl, and the prospects of some really special stuff that might happen in the next 2-3 years. For the love of Christ.
 
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It's all about tone.
A good post on the subject would have been:
--------------------------------------------------
What do you guys think? Paterno in his prime or Franklin?

Ok in his Prime Paterno was coming off national championships... but in an even match who wins?

I think Franklin. I don't think PAterno was ever able to get guys from WP blah blah blah blah blah.
------------------------------
This is a discussion. The OP was just intended to flame and bash.
I was wondering when someone would bring up Paterno in his prime. People who post things, like the OP, about Paterno couldn't recruit this guy or that guy didn't know the younger JoePa. He could recruit with anybody and probably could today if he was 45 and not 85.

But in a way I think he's still recruiting. During his 60 plus years he made Penn State a special place to play college football and his legacy lives on. Recently Micah Parson's had this to say about JoePa and Penn State:

"When JoePa was here, he had glory days, undefeated seasons, national titles; we went down, and now we're coming back up," Parsons says.

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2016/05/penn_state_commit_micah_parson.html

In no way do I mean to belittle what James Franklin has done, actually that's the opposite of what I believe. Franklin has done a great job getting talent together, both players and coaches, and right now he has a pretty good football team. If everybody comes back they'll be scary good next year.

So comparing Franklin and Paterno's recruiting prowess is silly actually.
 
I know this will sound douchey but at what time do we stop chasing down this rabbit hole? I understand the discussion and I lived through the ENTIRE period of Joe's head coaching. I don't think Bama fans seemed as obsessed with comparing everything to Bear as our fan base does with Joe. I get it and how feelings will remain because of the dismissal and tarnishing. But at some point, the FOOTBALL aspect at least has to move on from Rip, Joe, and O'Brien doesn't it?

This team just completed arguably the most satisfying season on field and the recruiting cycle seems to be gathering ridiculous momentum but this shows up?!?! I'm focused on USC, the Rose Bowl, and the prospects of some really special stuff that might happen in the next 2-3 years. For the love of Christ.

True about Bama fans and Bear, but in our defense, there was a long non internet time between Bear and Saban. Joe started in the fountain pen generation and ended in the internet generation. Bear started in the quill pen and ink generation and ended in the "holy cow, a computer in the house - no one would want that" generation.
 
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The year is 2016. That is all that matters.

Live in the present, not the past.

That's probably something Joe would say.

Our past is what allowed Penn State to come back so quickly. Our past produced the considerable resources at Franklin's disposal in the present. However, he's still handcuffed by a false narrative. I look forward to the day that he can sell Penn State for all that it is and all that it was.
 
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We all have differing opinions about Joe near the end. I think he did what he could, which was a lot for his age. But the internet and recruiting sites completely changed the ball game. I don't think we could consistently compete with top recruits once Joe started to decline. Franklin has moved us in a position now that we can start being back to elite status. But it will be tough w/ Urb and Harb.
That's probably something Joe would say.

Yes it is.
 
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...you are absolutely right...
...at this time of year I always watch "It's A Wonderful Life" ...
...and lately it helps me remember Joe and it's easy to put his contribution to PennState and the many lives he has touched into perspective...
... and I can't help giving thanks...
 
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Because it's an opinion based on absolutely nothing. There's no way for the OP to support it or anyone to refute it because it is 100% speculation. It's like me saying if I had gotten a chance to play major league baseball, I would have batted .400. Try to refute that.

And we all know that speculation never happens on this board.
 
True about Bama fans and Bear, but in our defense, there was a long non internet time between Bear and Saban. Joe started in the fountain pen generation and ended in the internet generation. Bear started in the quill pen and ink generation and ended in the "holy cow, a computer in the house - no one would want that" generation.

Yeah, I understand that the wounds are still fresh in this case but when does the SOL finally turn over? On field performance is still the MOST critical factor in determining energy IMO. Win and they will come. Kids want a big stage with meaningful games. I think everyone has their opinion on whether Joe stayed too long or not, let's just let it rest at that.
 
...you are absolutely right...
...at this time of year I always watch "It's A Wonderful Life" ...
...and lately it helps me remember Joe and it's easy to put his contribution to PennState and the many lives he has touched into perspective...
... and I can't help giving thanks...

Seriously?
 
Yeah, I understand that the wounds are still fresh in this case but when does the SOL finally turn over? On field performance is still the MOST critical factor in determining energy IMO. Win and they will come. Kids want a big stage with meaningful games. I think everyone has their opinion on whether Joe stayed too long or not, let's just let it rest at that.

I'm sure it is obvious he stayed too long The only question is by how much.
 
I guess the point the OP is trying to make (in the most clouded way possible) is that high schools kids can relate better to coaches who are closer in age. Brilliant!
 
As was mentioned, your point is useless. If you are saying that if Joe had not retired and died, and was 90+ years old still coaching PSU that they would not have gotten Wade, that is a stupid argument. As neither would Knute Rockne, Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes, Bo Schembechler, or any other great dead coach.

If you think that Joe couldn't recruit Western PA, then you are obviously a millenial or younger that is stupid as Joe got plenty of recruits from Western PA including Lavar, Short, Poz, etc...

As for the person who said Joe did not recruit nationally. Neither did anybody besides ND back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's really when Joe was in his prime. And Joe did recruit pretty well regionally including NY, NJ, MD, New England, and Virginia regularly. And go look where Courtney Brown and Bobby Engram were from who were both 5 star Top 10 recruits (hint, it wasn't PA).
 
I know I will get a ton of negative feedback regarding this post, but all due respect to JoePa (and I appreciate everything he did for Penn State), Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders from Woodland Hills and Lamont Wade from Clairton. Joe should have been gone years before November 9, 2011, for football reasons. He was unable to make visits to recruits homes, and many kids had a difficult time relating to people of Joe's age. Again, this is no disrespect to a man who built Penn State football into a national power, not to mention the $4 million dollars he gave for Patee. Terry Smith played at Gateway High School, played at Penn State, and coached at Gateway High School. Kids relate to Terry, and Coach Franklin. We are extremely fortunate to have the coaching staff we currently have. I hope James Franklin is our coach for many years to come! WE ARE!

There was a way to write this post.
You meant to write this as a compliment to CJF, noting how the young blood and ability to relate to kids is paying dividends with commitments from kids PSU was unable to attract for the previous decade.
Instead you took the negative approach by saying what Joe couldn't do, and that is why you are catching flack. I hope this is not how you approach life or your job. If it is, let this be a lesson to you. You'll be much more successful.
 
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That's probably something Joe would say.

Our past is what allowed Penn State to come back so quickly. Our past produced the considerable resources at Franklin's disposal in the present. However, he's still handcuffed by a false narrative. I look forward to the day that he can sell Penn State for all that it is and all that it was.

Agree. Full speed ahead Captain Franklin.
 
I know I will get a ton of negative feedback regarding this post, but all due respect to JoePa (and I appreciate everything he did for Penn State), Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders from Woodland Hills and Lamont Wade from Clairton. Joe should have been gone years before November 9, 2011, for football reasons. He was unable to make visits to recruits homes, and many kids had a difficult time relating to people of Joe's age. Again, this is no disrespect to a man who built Penn State football into a national power, not to mention the $4 million dollars he gave for Patee. Terry Smith played at Gateway High School, played at Penn State, and coached at Gateway High School. Kids relate to Terry, and Coach Franklin. We are extremely fortunate to have the coaching staff we currently have. I hope James Franklin is our coach for many years to come! WE ARE!
84 year old Paterno? No, he probably wouldn't have. But 79ish year old Paterno was able to get the #1 recruit in the nation in Derek Williams. He also was a fantastic recruiter pre-2000. He sold the parents better than any coach in the country, and that went a long way.

But none of this matters because Paterno is dead and it's time to look ahead. I'm glad that Franklin is able to secure top talent.
 
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I know I will get a ton of negative feedback regarding this post, but all due respect to JoePa (and I appreciate everything he did for Penn State), Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders from Woodland Hills and Lamont Wade from Clairton. Joe should have been gone years before November 9, 2011, for football reasons. He was unable to make visits to recruits homes, and many kids had a difficult time relating to people of Joe's age. Again, this is no disrespect to a man who built Penn State football into a national power, not to mention the $4 million dollars he gave for Patee. Terry Smith played at Gateway High School, played at Penn State, and coached at Gateway High School. Kids relate to Terry, and Coach Franklin. We are extremely fortunate to have the coaching staff we currently have. I hope James Franklin is our coach for many years to come! WE ARE!
You know that to be a fact, or is that your opinion?
 
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Well I would have to say that he got plenty right there. This is something many of us have thought I am sure but the problem is that there is no delicate way to make that statement. I guess the rub is that many think that it does not need to be brought up. The OP knew he was going to take heat for this opinion and he was right.
 
84 year old Paterno? No, he probably wouldn't have. But 79ish year old Paterno was able to get the #1 recruit in the nation in Derek Williams. He also was a fantastic recruiter pre-2000. He sold the parents better than any coach in the country, and that went a long way.

But none of this matters because Paterno is dead and it's time to look ahead. I'm glad that Franklin is able to secure top talent.

I think one aspect of what you say is critical, recruiting the kid versus recruiting the parents. You can't IGNORE either but recruiting the parents is likely not to be nearly as important as it once was. I know I hear constantly "it's my life" from my kids. Face facts, kids exercise a lot more control and influence in decision making. If one approach favored or focused more on the parents, I can be pretty confident that this approach is not as successful as it once was. I am pretty sure I know who cleaned up when it came to recruiting parents.

We have had at least a couple of these - Vidal Hazelton and Deion Walker are two that immediately come to mind. Probably Wimbush as well to some extent. In these cases, high star kids eventually called the shots and made the call.

Times are different and I am not saying that kids call ALL the shots. I can tell you with 100% certainty that Joe made a huge impression on the parents of Evan Royster. But still, I think the tide has turned here.

We are WELL positioned with the coach we have right now I'll tell you that. Sit back and enjoy.
 
I'm sure it is obvious he stayed too long The only question is by how much.
I always felt when he didn't make in home or visits to schools that is when he should hang it up.That is part of your job as head coach.Sorry,if you can't go out and recruit you shouldn't be a head coach.Can you imagine what it would be like for a kid in Dallas or Miami having Joe visiting your school.I felt his presence in the homes could have swayed many big time recruits.
 
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