Joe never would have gotten Miles Sanders or Lamont Wade
- Thread starter nittany dave
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Different era, certainly, but a couple of thoughts:
Had Joe been able to go out as he should have been allowed to, I think the comparison talk would be significantly less than it is now. People who look like me are still angry and bitter and saddened by how JVP was treated and how he is overlooked not only nationally, but within PSU's athletic offices as well. He deserved to be honored then and now, and the media and his own PSU athletics should be doing the honoring.
Ray Perkins caught a ton of flack for 'not being Bear Bryant', even though he was hand-picked by Bear to follow him. He was compared to Bear with every loss and coaching decision. It just was not as much in our faces with no internet, but to someone who followed college football every day such as I did, I saw it. I admired Bear, and wasn't a fan of Perkins, but I recall thinking this poor guy was never going to win over the fans or Bama media. And people said of Bear like they said of Lombardi - don't be the guy who follows the legend, be the guy who follows the guy who follows the legend.
I want to do my part in honoring JVP as I can, so I will defend him with as much objectivity as I can muster. Despite being a huge admirer of his, I was pretty critical of him at times over the last few seasons.
It depends on the kid. Miles Sanders is one where Mama controlled the recruitment. Kaindoh's father is running the show there (over mama). Last year Gary's Mom was heading his recruitment.
In general though, I agree. Kids are less inclined to allow their parents to make the decision for them now than they were back in the day.
'The past is never dead. It's not even past.' -- William Faulkner
'There is no present or future -- only the past, happening over and over again -- now.' -- Eugene O'Neill
He used the word 'never' which disqualifies the entire post. Absolutes don't work. Some posters don't get that.
He didn't get anything right and to know that doesn't require a close reading. So sorry.
I agree to some extent. Parents do make a difference though perhaps less so than in the past. It seems that Kaindoh may be an example of a young man who is calling his own shots, as you described.
Well it certainly is a matter of opinion. You have yours and I have mine.He didn't get anything right and to know that doesn't require a close reading. So sorry.
Joe was 85 years old. They let him stay 15 years longer than he should have. And Joe was treated like a king for years. Joe hired his incompetent son and let him run the offense. Everywhere but "Happy Valley" that is called nepotism. When the "dark years" hit he told PSU fans to "lower their expectations". I am happy to have a young energetic coach that knows he is accountable for his performance and an exciting team again. You and those of your ilk can continue to live in the past. I prefer the present..
"I wish I could be coached by Joe Paterno. That's no diss to Coach Franklin, but JoePa is JoePa." Antonio Shelton
There's a difference between living in the past and honoring it. I choose to honor it, and I believe it is an extremely important part of who we are and how we got here. I'm still giving as much money as I ever have to the NLC and buying season tickets for multiple sports and going to away games.... all in the present (and future). Me and those of my ilk are also very happy to have an energetic football* coach who is accountable and who is giving us exciting football. That was going to happen post-JVP, and I looked forward to it for a number of years. But during that time, me and those of my ilk were still aware enough to admire and respect JVP and all he had done to build PSU both athletically and educationally.
*and basketball and wrestling and hockey and....
Your other opinions on length of stay and how Joe was treated (one person's "king" is another's simple show of respect), and your opinions of Jay are inconsequential to me and those of my ilk. Have you ever looked around at coaching staffs across the country at the higher levels and noticed how many head coaches have their sons on their staffs? A good many. Your lack of awareness of that fact does not mean that Jay was a bad coach.
You and those of your ilk can go.... off and choose to do whatever you want regarding PSU's football past, present, and future. If you cannot see that honoring the past and enjoying the present and being excited about the future are not mutually exclusive, then I don't hold your opinion in high regard, and I doubt many of my ilk do. Therefore, it makes little difference to me or those of my ilk.
Otherwise, Merry Christmas to you and yours, Osprey.
Coach Franklin probably thinks the same thing.
So, let me get this straight. NittanyLogan Dave has an accurate opinion that Paterno stayed too long and Dave gets bashed. Bashed for telling the TRUTH. JUST BECAUSE HE IS NOT A BOARD REGULAR. JOKE. I support these statements. One further, if Joe had retired, no sanctions from NCAA. Surprised this never came up. Joe had nothing to do with it, bit NCAA made him scapegoat
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Having a bad shopping season or a totally miserable life? Merry Christmas, now enjoy "ignore".
Some people are capable of honoring the past and enjoying the present at the same time, hard concept to grasp for you I know. That's why I typed it really slow for your simple mind.
Honoring the past means 1965 to 1999, and that magic in 2005.
It does NOT mean honoring a 29 recruit class, of which 22 flamed out. It does NOT mean honoring 5 guys calling offensive plays at the same time, and it does NOT mean honoring the choice to play a kid in Madison Wisconsin, who did not belong on any D1 field, to throw 20 incomplete passes out of 27, only to burn the other kids redshirt the next week for a god damn Hail Mary throw against Purdue.
Big difference. The past had plenty of good, plenty of great, but it had it's share of things that wouldn't have happened had Joe simply let go and gotten on with his life outside of his position.
None of this has anything to do with the scandal or the sanctions.
You must know by now that the most important thing to most here is Joe and his legacy.
The majority never met him but he did so much for them. At least one watches Christmas movies
and thinks about Joe (Santa?). Posting a negative remark or what is perceived as one will
bring a quick response from his minions.
I guess you don't understand that I or anyone else can read your message at the same speed no matter how slowly it is typed. Is that a hard concept for you to grasp?
What is the point of this post other than to antagonize people?It's entirely pointless given the fact that 2011 was going to be Joe's last year. He would not have been here anyway. Obviously, towards the end, Coach Paterno was not the closer he once was but Coach Franklin still has a long way to go before he was the recruiter that Joe Paterno was for the vast majority of his tenure. That is not a criticism of James Franklin. It is simply stating a fact.
You're honoring on-the-field stuff only (yet curiously ignoring 2006-2011). I'm honoring the overall Grand Experiment and Success With Honor.
To me, that means that even in the dark years of frustrating, disappointing performances and losing records, we could be proud of a program and its coaches and players that produced far more good than otherwise when it came to off the field.
In a 46 season career, and 62 seasons overall, there was bound to be some bad years and some bad kids. I'll take our ratio in that regard, combined with the hundreds of wins and multiple national championships, over any other program in Div. 1.
And agreed, none of that has anything to do with Sandusky or the idiotic sanctions.
90% of it was glorius
10% of it was unnecessary
At the end of the day, I'll take it. And as you mentioned, none of this is about sanctions or scandal, this is all about what transpired from 65 to 2010.
...but 5 coaches calling plays and that 6 for 26 in Madison in 2004, really REALLY bothered me. But yes, in the BIG picture, it's miniscule.
What is the point? God Bless his soul Joe has been gone for how long? There are no answers for some questions. Are you saying at age 46 or 47 Joe would not have recruited top talent? He did deliver 2 national championships and got screwed out of at least 2 others. I don't give a damn what the star system says, its about results. He must have clearly been the greatest coach to ever walk the planet. He couldn't recruit and he had assistant coaches that were useless and yes men. Then he hired his idiot son..... yet he won 409 games. Amazing! I'm excited as hell about this years team and the future under James Franklin. I've got my Rose Bowl tickets and I follow the recruiting success with great anticipation. But stop this please.....don't embarrass any current college coach except Urban Meyer and Nick Saban by comparing them with Joe Paterno.
Good post my man. I guess what I am saying is that Joe's contributions will never be duplicated again at a university regarding its image (good for most, bad for others), duration, on field success measured by victories, fundraising, impact on players, etc. In that regard, there is no debate. But when it comes to on-field, recruiting, game management, etc, what's the point really? And I am not saying this to bang on the OP. It's a free message board and I won't pass judgement on his intent. It was something that obviously interested him and that's OK. But at some point, the "what would Joe do" for FOOTBALL related talk seems a bit silly.
Having said that, I have strong feelings about Hack v. Trace that I guess I should park as well given that Hack ain't coming back either.
We are all great fans with different perspectives. Happy Holidays to all Nit fans everywhere regardless of where you land on this and any other issue that we all waste time debating. Let's go beat USC!
Are you suggesting that PSU wasn't successful and honorable before Paterno? And that other
football programs haven't been successful while being honorable? Also what good did the "dark years" produce?
Nope. Are you suggesting that others have done it and continue to do it in the present? Are likely to do it in the future? I didn't read your posts that way, but maybe you do mean that.
Rip Engle was moderately successful and was absolutely honorable and the program reflected that. There are other programs that I have long admired, and coaches also, for their combination of success (most all generally less consistently than what JVP was) and honorable intentions (most all with a lesser record of honor than JVP).
What I am suggesting is that JVP took Success With Honor and his Grand Experiment to unforeseen and largely unimagined heights, and maintained it at an incredibly high level for decades in comparison to any other program over his 46 seasons. It was a huge challenge that was met and exceeded, and that bar may be now set so high that few can even hope to achieve it. Franklin has taken huge steps along that path this season, and I am ecstatic over that as a life-long PSU fan.
Many terrific players played during the dark years - some are now or have been All Pros. Most all have represented the Grand Experiment very well. Those are very good things both on and off-the-field that came out of the dark years. In the long run, who really cares about a couple seasons' worth of losing records when compared to the whole?
I made up my mind long ago that I would not let lower expectations make me lose sight of the greater good. I was absolutely certain that PSU was a sleeping giant, and some other up-and-coming or maybe even established coach would come in and wake it up. Looks like that is happening.
So, I'm living in - and loving - the present, while honoring and grateful for the past. Fingers crossed for more great stuff on and off the field in the future.
Yeah, I know Gunner II. Still, an exchange of opinions, mostly loaded with facts, tinged with some fervor, but without the sophomoric insults, isn't a bad way to pass some time. It's too often a rare species on the interwebs.
In his prime Joe was right there with the very best of them in recruiting.
Nobody in there 70s or 80s has the energy of their youth.
Many people have said Joe would "never" do anything wrong. I believe you were one.
I actually "hate" the worship of Paterno that is prevalent in his cult. I also "hate" hearing that
Paterno is/was PSU football. I spent four wonderful years at Penn State and will always love
the education and memories including the football games none of which I missed during my stay.
And PSU is bigger and much more important than Paterno. That is something that some of you
don't seem to grasp.
