Sounds like Senator Biden. Oops wrong board.
LOL...Stetson Bennett, seven years in college with zero degrees
- Thread starter Obliviax
- Start date
Of course not everyone but he pushed academics. That's happening less and less under pay for play.
Does it matter? Has it had any negative impact in the grand scheme of things--not what some people care about?
We have to stop pretending this is new. Even under Paterno many came here "to play ball".
Rather than solicit fans for NIL cash, pay star players from game and TV receipts. Change NCAA to NCAFL and quit pretending we have amature sports. Stetson has 6 years playing college football and no degree, but 2 NCs
don't disagree. But when that happens, players will be covered by employment law as employees. NIL is really a short term way to get around recent lawsuits where the teams tried to own a player's name, image and likeness (NIL). The teams lost and the players now own their NIL and can resell it. But that does NOT make them an employee.
the problem with that, now, is that there is no control or balance. The system is now replete with corruption. It is not sustainable.
So, as you say, players will eventually become 'student-employees'. When that happens, for their own good, they will have to create some kind of grouping; AKA a union. when they are a Union, they'll negotiate a collective bargaining agreement where they give up some rights, to get others. That will be the endgame.
My wife graduated from UGA and I have a daughter that’s there. Hate that school.
daughter and most of her high school friends graduated UGA. daughter and her friends were there on HOPE/ Zell Miller scholarship, paid no tuition, so graduated debt free., I love that school (and Ga Tech where my son went tuition free as well)
That’s awesome, mine has Zell and the other one at Tech does too. Unfortunately they won’t be debt free because of housing …but good for you. Still hate the school, but I love Tech.
It absolutely does matter. This is new, to Penn State. Yes, many players came to Penn State to play football and go to the NFL under Joe. But, it was always a balance and the numbers were very limited, hence the graduation rate under the old system (compared to the new one specifically designed to make low graduation rates look impressive but aren't) with zero evidence of clustering or other tricks most major programs use to pad their graduation rates. What Joe did under the old system was the most impressive feet in sports history which is why he is the greatest football coach in history.
No--it wasn't even remotely the most impressive "feat"
Nor would most agree with him being the great football coach in history
We inflate how good this program was under Paterno often and this is a prime example. What Saban has done is infinitely more impressive. The objective is to win titles no matter what spin you put on
Alabama was well established as an elite program before Saban got there. PSU was a nobody when Paterno took over.
Bowl Records:
Saban 19-11
Paterno 24-12
You can argue that Saban is better but your constant minimization of Paterno's career is unfair and to be honest boring.
Don't disagree, but what is the justification for limiting eligibility to 4 years to play 5 if they aren't required to be student-athletes?????
Bowl games mean nothing--they're not all create even
Compare the number of titles they have
Don't forget where Bama was when Saban arrived
Paterno's elite--pretending he's the greatest ever because of grad rates is insincere.
He (Paterno) was very stern when it came to academics. Penn State's graduation rate of its athletes under Paterno was 90 percent. Twice, Paterno led the Nittany Lions to a No. 1 ranking of BCS-schools in academic achievements among student athletes (2009 & 2011). The top-ranking also included a successful graduation rate of its African-American athletes.
Okay so we're going to doube down pretending academics makes him the best coach--this stuff is why people loved watching him fall. This reply is desperate. Accept college sports for what they are please.
You're incorrigible. I look at more than the wins and losses and I think Joe was the best. I also acknowledged that others have different opinions. Some think it's Knute or Bear and that's their right. It's your right to think that it's all about wins and losses and that academics are irrelevant. Of course you also think PSU's Rose Bowl win over Utah was just a glorified exhibition that should have never been played.
The problem is your apparent hatred for Joe has clouded your judgement. He had the most wins, the most bowl wins, a high graduation rates, etc. and you pretty much dismiss all of it.
It was just a glorified exhibition--and we could have lost by 50 and I'd say the same.
I don't hate Paterno. Paterno is one of the greatest coaches ever--pro or college. He's just not the best. The only negative thing I've ever said about Joe is he stayed too long. Unless of course you believe saying he's not the best coach that ever lived is negative.
Most wins is about longevity and him not leaving when he should have (again my only issue with Joe), I've explained bowl wins and graduation rates isn't about coaching. You're listing stats that you care about while ignoring the analysis behind it.
Let's just look at Saban
Saban is 280-69-1 with 10 SEC titles (best conference in the land) and 7 national titles. SEVEN. 80% win clip with stops at Toledo and Michigan State. 15 straight years with 10 or more wins--FIFTEEN
Paterno is 409-163-3 with 3 Big Ten titles in 19 years and 2 national titles in more than 4 decades of coaching. He won 71% of his games. You can't overlook the lack of titles when comparing him to the greats for best coach ever.
You can't say Joe was more successful without being biased. Those numbers prove you wrong. Just look at the conference titles at Bama vs Joe in the Big Ten when they've been there for almost the same amount of time. And we all know the SEC is better than the Big Ten.
It's okay to be a Paterno fan and admit someone is better than him. It gives you credibility. Pretending I have "an apparent hatred for Joe" is one of the dumbest things I've read on this board. He might be the greatest human to ever coach--he just wasn't the greatest coach ever and we all know it. Some just won't admit it because they've believed that for so long
What if Alexander the great had a division of Panzer tanks?
I have no idea who was better a better football coach. however, I can tell you that PSU had to fight a massive anti-East bias from the media. The has always been a lean toward the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12 and PAC ten until the last few years when cable, TV coverage, cheap airfare and payoffs changed thinking. Back then, college football teams got almost all of their talent locally so PSU was almost all PA and surrounding state kids. Today, that isn't the case. Hell, I'll bet less than half of tOSU's players are from Ohio.
I can tell you that paterno was more impactful on the game than Saban. But if you are going to argue Saban was better because he won more championships, then you must think Robert Horry and Satch Sanders are two of the best basketball players that ever lived.
You just compared role players to a HC. HCs in all sports are measured in titles. See women's volleyball and wrestling at Penn State for starters.
In what way was Paterno more impactful? Not saying you're wrong but make your case for it.
In the 70s and 80s Pennsylvania was a great place to get all your kids from. Especially with surrounding states being NJ MD VA and OH.
The people who are advocates of players not needing to be bonafide student-athletes have yet to explain why players should be limited to an arbitrary career of 4 playing years (regardless if it encompasses more years via a standard, and medical, redshirts)??? Additionally, what is the justification for not letting a player come back and play who fails to be drafted or make an NFL team??? What is the justification for these things, which are harmful to the athlete, if there is no requirement for them to be bonafide student-athletes and they are just mercenary professionals, why should these arbitrary rules apply???
Last edited:
4.5 for me....extra football season and younger girlfriend. Didn't hert me nun...
You are a clown. The objective IS TO GRADUATE PLAYERS first, win titles second. End of story. Joe's record is the greatest achievement in sports. Saban can't compare. Had he stayed at Michigan State and did what he did, he would have a case but no, he didn't because the Big Ten's standards are too high and he couldn't bring in enough talent to win a single conference championship so he went to the league without standards. Joe is the great football coach of all time. It isn't debatable.
This is completely irrelevant because he played with a roster that largely wouldn't qualify (academically) in the Big Ten. He did while benefiting from gray shirting rules that don't exist in the Big Ten. He did it in a pathetic conference where you only have to win one or two games a year to get to the title game. Sorry, you are wrong. You couldn't actually be more wrong. Saban had his chance to be the greatest, he blew it by leaving the Big Ten for the junior colleges of the SEC.
False...our lack of titles is why you sat that. Saban was at Michigan State and turned the program around in 4 years leaving for a better opportunity. Your bias is absurd.
They'd all qualify in the Big Ten and we'd recruit many of them. You're living in the past with gray shirt talk. The SEC is better than the Big Ten. There's ton of evidence around that. Keep believing Paterno was better than guys like Saban by talking grad rates and academics. Good luck. About 99.99999% of people would disagree with you.
