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Minnesota football players suspended due to sex crime

I'm pretty sure we were happy to be in the Pinstripe Bowl.
LOL


I think one wouldn't be TOO hard pressed to see the "uniqueness" of PSU's foray to Yankee Stadium. :)


How "happy" would everyone be if 2016 PSU just went 6-6, and was slated to go play Wake Forest at Christmastime?

Who would care if they went or not?

You might - IDK........but I doubt if the "exhileration" of the big match up would be much of a consolation prize for most
 
Well, they are in the Holiday Bowl against Washington State IIRC. Traditionally it's been a pretty good bowl game over the years. That bowl committee has to be panicking right now.

Latest from ESPN-

Minnesota players' boycott could affect lead-up to Holiday Bowl
9:58 PM ET

Minnesota football players announced Thursday night that they were boycotting all football activities in the wake of the suspensions this week of 10 teammates.

While the school did not specify the reasons for the suspensions in Tuesday's announcement, Ray Buford Sr., the father of defensive back Ray Buford Jr., one of the suspended players, said Wednesday the suspensions resulted from an investigation conducted by the university's Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action into an alleged sexual assault, which was separate from earlier investigations into the alleged assault in the early hours of Sept. 2.

The other suspended players are sophomore running back Carlton Djam; freshman quarterback Seth Green; sophomore defensive back KiAnte Hardin; redshirt freshman defensive back Dior Johnson; freshman defensive lineman Tamarion Johnson; junior running back Kobe McCrary; sophomore defensive back Antonio Shenault; freshman quarterback Mark Williams; and freshman defensive back Antoine Winfield Jr.

In a statement read by senior wide receiver Drew Wolitarsky, the players said: "The boycott will remain effective until due process is followed and suspensions for all 10 players involved are lifted."

The statement said the players were forced to take action after an unsatisfactory meeting with athletic director Mark Coyle in which they "wanted answers but received misleading statements."

Coyle and university president Eric W. Kaler released a joint statement after the players' announcement that read: "We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week's suspension of 10 Gopher Football players from all team activities. The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the University cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.

"We fully support our Gopher football players and all of our student-athletes. Situations like this are always difficult and the decision was made in consultation with and has the full support of President Eric Kaler. The decision was based on facts and is reflective of the University's values. We want to continue an open dialogue with our players and will work to do that over the coming days. It's important that we continue to work together as we move through this difficult time."

The players are demanding a closed-door meeting with members of the board of regents without the presence of Coyle or Kaler.

"We got no answers to our questions about why these kids are suspended, when they were just found not guilty by the law," Wolitarsky told reporters following the players' statement. "He [Coyle] basically told us that he didn't have answers, and that led us to believe that this is kind of unjust."

Minnesota faces Washington State on Dec. 27 in the National Funding Holiday Bowl in San Diego.

Holiday Bowl executive director Mark Neville said: "We are continuing to prepare for the National Funding Holiday Bowl on December 27, however, we are aware of the situation at the University of Minnesota and are monitoring it closely."

Wolitarsky also asked that the Holiday Bowl committee "be patient" while the team waited for a resolution to the suspensions. The coaching staff is planning to come in tomorrow, a source tells Adam Rittenberg, but there isn't expected to be another team practice until players get their meeting.

Buford Jr., Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson were suspended for three games earlier this season when their names came up in the police investigation of the alleged sexual assault. A restraining order filed by the woman who made the allegations prevented the players from being at TCF Bank Stadium on game days because she was involved in game-day operations. But the players were not arrested, prosecutors decided not to press charges and the players returned to the team. The restraining order was lifted after a settlement on Nov. 2.

"We are concerned that our brothers have been named publicly with reckless disregard in violation of their constitutional rights," Wolitarsky said. "We are now compelled to speak for our team and take back our program."


http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-football-activities-suspensions-10-teammates
I didn't know they were slated for San Diego
Personally, that's the one (of the lower tier bowls) I always felt would be the nicest trip for any Northern/Mid-Western team


I still support the Minny players - for all of the important reasons.......even more so because that is potentially a pretty nice trip for a bunch of cheese-eaters and ice fishermen from Minnesota
 
This is all the result of the "Dear Colleague letters" sent out by the Department of Education.

Suspected crimes are to be investigated by law enforcement agencies and not kangaroo court tribunals on college campuses run by gender studies department staff members who have no regard for individual civil rights and due process as opposed to their own agenda.
 
How "happy" would everyone be if 2016 PSU just went 6-6, and was slated to go play Wake Forest at Christmastime?
The bright side of playing Wake Forest would be a radio guy trying to pass along the WF game plan. I'd like to think our coaches would decline and notify the WF administration.
 
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This is all the result of the "Dear Colleague letters" sent out by the Department of Education.

Suspected crimes are to be investigated by law enforcement agencies and not kangaroo court tribunals on college campuses run by gender studies department staff members who have no regard for individual civil rights and due process as opposed to their own agenda.


I have the same concern. It's tough to fully judge this as we don't have the pertinent facts and the university refuses to release them publicly or even explain it to the team (if reports are correct).

I see from another article that this committee has recommended 5 of the players be expelled, 4 expelled for a year and 1 put on probation. This from an event that reportedly happened in early September but just deciding on a punishment now.....and deciding after the police authorities refused to bring charges after reviewing all including video.
 
Well, it turns out the minnytonka team had a come-to-jesus meeting and then advised the coach they would not be playing in the bowl unkless their demands were met.

I'm not sure if that word is final... nor what their demands were (I presume re-instatement of the terrible 10)... but this adds some drama to what i found to be a dull bunch of bowl games.

does the university capitulate so as to not lose all that bowl booty... do they boot every boycotter from their scholies and show the world what it means to start from scratch? do the players awaken from their stupor to realize that if they don't play, that decision might just follow their booty for a lonnnnnnng, lonnnnnng time?

As HarrisonFord once said... "All good questions."
 
I don't know Kaler and Coyle - but just from reading that "statement", I'd bet the mortgage money that they are both complete empty-suit douchebags


BTW - this would be an opportune time to recommend to anyone who has never seen it:

Cue up "Thin Blue Line" on your NETFLIX, RedBox, whatever


If you do, and that doesn't open your eyes (especially for anyone who has been following our various "PSU Sagas") - check your pulse

You won't be surprised that Steve Dunham got his start at, and holds in incredibly high regard, ... Minnesota
 
minnytonka playas say nyetsy to bowl... schtupping to follow

Well lookee lookee here!

wonder if the coach let the playas know they might not have scholies if they follow thru. Or if the playas said that's cool... good luck fielding a team next year. or if the school has a clue what they should do.

Call emmert.. he'll know!

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article121212228.html
 
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Well, they are in the Holiday Bowl against Washington State IIRC. Traditionally it's been a pretty good bowl game over the years. That bowl committee has to be panicking right now.

Latest from ESPN-

Minnesota players' boycott could affect lead-up to Holiday Bowl
9:58 PM ET

Minnesota football players announced Thursday night that they were boycotting all football activities in the wake of the suspensions this week of 10 teammates.

While the school did not specify the reasons for the suspensions in Tuesday's announcement, Ray Buford Sr., the father of defensive back Ray Buford Jr., one of the suspended players, said Wednesday the suspensions resulted from an investigation conducted by the university's Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action into an alleged sexual assault, which was separate from earlier investigations into the alleged assault in the early hours of Sept. 2.

The other suspended players are sophomore running back Carlton Djam; freshman quarterback Seth Green; sophomore defensive back KiAnte Hardin; redshirt freshman defensive back Dior Johnson; freshman defensive lineman Tamarion Johnson; junior running back Kobe McCrary; sophomore defensive back Antonio Shenault; freshman quarterback Mark Williams; and freshman defensive back Antoine Winfield Jr.

In a statement read by senior wide receiver Drew Wolitarsky, the players said: "The boycott will remain effective until due process is followed and suspensions for all 10 players involved are lifted."

The statement said the players were forced to take action after an unsatisfactory meeting with athletic director Mark Coyle in which they "wanted answers but received misleading statements."

Coyle and university president Eric W. Kaler released a joint statement after the players' announcement that read: "We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week's suspension of 10 Gopher Football players from all team activities. The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the University cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.

"We fully support our Gopher football players and all of our student-athletes. Situations like this are always difficult and the decision was made in consultation with and has the full support of President Eric Kaler. The decision was based on facts and is reflective of the University's values. We want to continue an open dialogue with our players and will work to do that over the coming days. It's important that we continue to work together as we move through this difficult time."

The players are demanding a closed-door meeting with members of the board of regents without the presence of Coyle or Kaler.

"We got no answers to our questions about why these kids are suspended, when they were just found not guilty by the law," Wolitarsky told reporters following the players' statement. "He [Coyle] basically told us that he didn't have answers, and that led us to believe that this is kind of unjust."

Minnesota faces Washington State on Dec. 27 in the National Funding Holiday Bowl in San Diego.

Holiday Bowl executive director Mark Neville said: "We are continuing to prepare for the National Funding Holiday Bowl on December 27, however, we are aware of the situation at the University of Minnesota and are monitoring it closely."

Wolitarsky also asked that the Holiday Bowl committee "be patient" while the team waited for a resolution to the suspensions. The coaching staff is planning to come in tomorrow, a source tells Adam Rittenberg, but there isn't expected to be another team practice until players get their meeting.

Buford Jr., Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson were suspended for three games earlier this season when their names came up in the police investigation of the alleged sexual assault. A restraining order filed by the woman who made the allegations prevented the players from being at TCF Bank Stadium on game days because she was involved in game-day operations. But the players were not arrested, prosecutors decided not to press charges and the players returned to the team. The restraining order was lifted after a settlement on Nov. 2.

"We are concerned that our brothers have been named publicly with reckless disregard in violation of their constitutional rights," Wolitarsky said. "We are now compelled to speak for our team and take back our program."


http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-football-activities-suspensions-10-teammates
ND may be on the phone lobbying to be a replacement team.

:)
 
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Well, they are in the Holiday Bowl against Washington State IIRC. Traditionally it's been a pretty good bowl game over the years. That bowl committee has to be panicking right now.

Latest from ESPN-

Minnesota players' boycott could affect lead-up to Holiday Bowl
9:58 PM ET

Minnesota football players announced Thursday night that they were boycotting all football activities in the wake of the suspensions this week of 10 teammates.

While the school did not specify the reasons for the suspensions in Tuesday's announcement, Ray Buford Sr., the father of defensive back Ray Buford Jr., one of the suspended players, said Wednesday the suspensions resulted from an investigation conducted by the university's Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action into an alleged sexual assault, which was separate from earlier investigations into the alleged assault in the early hours of Sept. 2.

The other suspended players are sophomore running back Carlton Djam; freshman quarterback Seth Green; sophomore defensive back KiAnte Hardin; redshirt freshman defensive back Dior Johnson; freshman defensive lineman Tamarion Johnson; junior running back Kobe McCrary; sophomore defensive back Antonio Shenault; freshman quarterback Mark Williams; and freshman defensive back Antoine Winfield Jr.

In a statement read by senior wide receiver Drew Wolitarsky, the players said: "The boycott will remain effective until due process is followed and suspensions for all 10 players involved are lifted."

The statement said the players were forced to take action after an unsatisfactory meeting with athletic director Mark Coyle in which they "wanted answers but received misleading statements."

Coyle and university president Eric W. Kaler released a joint statement after the players' announcement that read: "We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week's suspension of 10 Gopher Football players from all team activities. The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the University cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.

"We fully support our Gopher football players and all of our student-athletes. Situations like this are always difficult and the decision was made in consultation with and has the full support of President Eric Kaler. The decision was based on facts and is reflective of the University's values. We want to continue an open dialogue with our players and will work to do that over the coming days. It's important that we continue to work together as we move through this difficult time."

The players are demanding a closed-door meeting with members of the board of regents without the presence of Coyle or Kaler.

"We got no answers to our questions about why these kids are suspended, when they were just found not guilty by the law," Wolitarsky told reporters following the players' statement. "He [Coyle] basically told us that he didn't have answers, and that led us to believe that this is kind of unjust."

Minnesota faces Washington State on Dec. 27 in the National Funding Holiday Bowl in San Diego.

Holiday Bowl executive director Mark Neville said: "We are continuing to prepare for the National Funding Holiday Bowl on December 27, however, we are aware of the situation at the University of Minnesota and are monitoring it closely."

Wolitarsky also asked that the Holiday Bowl committee "be patient" while the team waited for a resolution to the suspensions. The coaching staff is planning to come in tomorrow, a source tells Adam Rittenberg, but there isn't expected to be another team practice until players get their meeting.

Buford Jr., Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson were suspended for three games earlier this season when their names came up in the police investigation of the alleged sexual assault. A restraining order filed by the woman who made the allegations prevented the players from being at TCF Bank Stadium on game days because she was involved in game-day operations. But the players were not arrested, prosecutors decided not to press charges and the players returned to the team. The restraining order was lifted after a settlement on Nov. 2.

"We are concerned that our brothers have been named publicly with reckless disregard in violation of their constitutional rights," Wolitarsky said. "We are now compelled to speak for our team and take back our program."


http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...-football-activities-suspensions-10-teammates
Wow, what a mess. No idea what happened, or even what is alleged.

Suppose it was all consensual, but multiple guys had sex with her. Would that be a basis for a suspension? On some sort of team rules thing?
 
From the Minneapolis Star Tribune-

By CHIP SCOGGINS , STAR TRIBUNE
December 16, 2016 - 12:24 AM

In announcing the suspensions of 10 football players, University of Minnesota President Eric Kaler wrote in an e-mail to select boosters that the decision was made by head coach Tracy Claeys in consultation with athletic director Mark Coyle.


Coyle stuck with the company line when addressing reporters, saying he and Claeys consulted on the discipline.


Gophers players called that assertion a lie in a remarkable display of solidarity Thursday night at their indoor practice field. Multiple sources inside the football program also disputed those claims, saying Claeys had no input on punishment and was surprised by the decision.

“[Claeys] doesn’t have the power to do that,” senior wide receiver Drew Wolitarsky said. “Mark Coyle has the power to do that, and Mark Coyle did it.”

It should be noted that at least two assistant coaches stood alongside players as they delivered ultimatums and criticism of Kaler and Coyle.

Claeys was not available for comment but tweeted: “Have never been more proud of our kids. I respect their rights & support their effort to make a better world!”

What a colossal mess. The school president and athletic director are saying one thing, people inside the program are saying something else, battle lines are being drawn and the football program basically has been shut down.

This one is amazing even by the Gophers’ lofty standards of screw-ups.

The football team put Kaler and Coyle on notice in a very public way, backing them into a corner while engaging in a public stare-down.

Based on their tone, defiance and togetherness, I have a hard time believing the players are going to fold, even if it means skipping the bowl game and receiving harsh backlash from those who don’t believe in their cause.

On the other side, Kaler and Coyle must react to their hard-lined stance, and they’re not off to a good start. They released a joint statement after the players spoke that basically said nothing in a convoluted way.

This situation is so toxic that I’m not sure any resolution will satisfy all parties. The damage inflicted on the program will be severe and enduring. Can Coyle and Claeys continue to work together after this? The level of mistrust floating through the department must be searing.

Those three leaders — Claeys, Kaler and Coyle — now face enormous challenges.

Claeys showed support for his players in his tweet, which essentially pits him against his two bosses. What does that mean for his future?

Players are demanding that Kaler overturn the suspensions, a fallout of the recommendations by the Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action after its investigation into the alleged sexual assault.

Kaler and Coyle showed no sign of budging in their statement, writing, “The decision was based on facts and is reflective of the University’s values.” If Kaler ultimately reverses course, he essentially would be admitting that the school grossly overreached in punishing players. That would severely damage his ability to lead the university.

Coyle has operated mostly in the shadows in his first seven months as athletic director. He said this week that he purposely stays in the background.

“I would hope people would describe me as behind the scenes,” Coyle told me during a 30-minute interview Monday. “I am a big believer in low ego, high output.”

That leadership style isn’t going to cut it now. Coyle has no choice but to emerge from under his rock to take on this full-blown crisis that demands strong, visible leadership.

Coyle is at the center of a standoff that is now a national story. Forget that low-ego stuff. He has mutiny in his football program, and players believe he’s to blame for delivering what they described as “unjust” punishment. Coyle won’t emerge from this crisis, the first scandal on his watch, unscathed.

Some fans undoubtedly believe the punishment is justified and are disgusted by the players’ actions that night. Some fans undoubtedly believe the players, none of whom was ever arrested or charged with a crime, are being unfairly punished.

In a bit of irony — or perhaps naiveté — I asked Coyle during our interview earlier this week if he feels like he has brought stability in wake of the Norwood Teague fiasco.

“I can tell you I’m doing everything I can to bring stability,” he said.

What happened inside the Gophers’ football complex Thursday was anything but stable.


http://m.startribune.com/gophers-football-mess-keeps-getting-worse/406988496/
 
Aside from the fact that if they boycotted the ........... Uh, what Bowl are they in?...........There would probably be very few people who would notice........

______________________

Anyway, if they do boycott the bowl (which probably has less than a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of happening), I'm all for it

Not just because it would be a nice opportunity to spotlight the hypocrisy of "big-time" ICA and the relationship with the Univeristy at large......which is plenty enough good reason as it is.


But also because, these stupid freaking 3rd tier, who cares, bowl games shouldn't be played anyhow (provides a little extra cash to the coaching staffs and what not, but other than that the only folks who gain anything at all are the folks at ESPiN)
Let the kids go home and enjoy the Holidays with their families - rather than spend 2 weeks alone on campus doing "football", and another week in some half-assed hotel 1,000 miles from their families......all to play in a game that no one - even the players - cares about

You are an idiot.
 
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Players are stepping on their own cranks. Let them...

It's amazing when the NCAA involved in a criminal issue with us how it was unfair. When a university involved in a criminal issue even tho charges weren't filed by the court, the lynch mob still appears.

We should be standing by the Minnesota players.
 
Is there conduct, not criminal on its face, not criminal at all, for which players can be suspended? Sure is. Try skipping class at PSU.

So, the fact that no charges were brought is not determinative. OTOH, they sure have managed to destroy the rep of a lot of publicly-named players who did nothing criminal so far as we can tell, and the idea that they lumped other players in with them who allegedly were not even there is ludicrous.

Pretty funny that they punish the players by missed games, but the U loses the bowl money. Kind of throws a harsh light on the financial aspects.
 
You won't be surprised that Steve Dunham got his start at, and holds in incredibly high regard, ... Minnesota
I would also suppose that most folks - probably even you (and that's not a "dig" or a criticism due to your position - - - just a statement to indicate how bad, and how unrecognized, the situation is) have no F-ing idea just how F-Ed up the "Crime and Punishment" situation is at PSU - - - and most large Universities (including, presumably, Minnesota)

I can only speak in detail and with certainty wrt the PSU situation - - - but the complete idiots and conflicted azzholes running around with unfettered ability to F up people's lives.
Azzholes who you wouldn't trust to walk your dog - - - and who care only about furthering their agendas and self-interests
And let's not even START to discuss the "sexual assault and misconduct Nazis" subset of that group......the folks like Damon "Every CoEd on Campus gets Sexually Assualted....Some Twice" Simms


I don't know the Minnesota details.
I said before, I certainly don't know the UMinn AD and President.......but reading their "press release" sent shivers up my spine - - - and even without "knowing them" id be willing to lay some $$$$ on them both being complete douchebags

(I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but I'll say it again........watch the documentary "The Thin Blue Line" - - - if you have a soul, it may cause a few sleepless nights, but it is a template under which many of the situations we have been dealing with have been crafted - - - and also relevant to understanding the "Higher Education Crime and Punishment" issues)
 
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Aside from the fact that if they boycotted the ........... Uh, what Bowl are they in?...........There would probably be very few people who would notice........

______________________

Anyway, if they do boycott the bowl (which probably has less than a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of happening), I'm all for it

Not just because it would be a nice opportunity to spotlight the hypocrisy of "big-time" ICA and the relationship with the Univeristy at large......which is plenty enough good reason as it is.


But also because, these stupid freaking 3rd tier, who cares, bowl games shouldn't be played anyhow (provides a little extra cash to the coaching staffs and what not, but other than that the only folks who gain anything at all are the folks at ESPiN)
Let the kids go home and enjoy the Holidays with their families - rather than spend 2 weeks alone on campus doing "football", and another week in some half-assed hotel 1,000 miles from their families......all to play in a game that no one - even the players - cares about
Northern Illinois is next up to fill in if Minny doesn't go, so the bowl game will still happen.
 
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It's amazing when the NCAA involved in a criminal issue with us how it was unfair. When a university involved in a criminal issue even tho charges weren't filed by the court, the lynch mob still appears.

We should be standing by the Minnesota players.
Nate gets a "like"

Dogs and Cats commiserate :)
 
Is there conduct, not criminal on its face, not criminal at all, for which players can be suspended? Sure is. Try skipping class at PSU.

So, the fact that no charges were brought is not determinative. OTOH, they sure have managed to destroy the rep of a lot of publicly-named players who did nothing criminal so far as we can tell, and the idea that they lumped other players in with them who allegedly were not even there is ludicrous.

Pretty funny that they punish the players by missed games, but the U loses the bowl money. Kind of throws a harsh light on the financial aspects.

Not sure that is entirely true - apparently none of the suspended players were given proper due process under University policy, or at least that is what THIS ARTICLE claims (can't say whether it is correct or not). Here is the excerpt from the article:

A source tells ESPN's Adam Rittenberg that the primary issue for the boycott was the school suspending the players before a hearing based on the Title IX investigation had been held. That hearing wouldn't have taken place until January, after the bowl game.

So according to that article, not only were all parties found not guilty, but none of the parties was even given proper due process within the University's Judicial Hearing process.
 
Northern Illinois is next up to fill in if Minny doesn't go, so the bowl game will still happen.
I don't know how realistic that would be - - - my gut says that the odds are very very likely that UMinn ends up playing in the bowl game - - - but I would very much like to see the Huskies make that trip to the San Diego Zoo

Maybe - if even for a moment, and if even to a limited audience, and even if most folks won't actually engage their brains in any meaningful way - maybe it would bring SOME attention to the mini-Gestapos lording over the communities of many major universities.
 
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Not sure that is entirely true - apparently none of the suspended players were given proper due process under University policy, or at least that is what THIS ARTICLE claims (can't say whether it is correct or not). Here is the excerpt from the article:


So according to that article, not only were all parties found not guilty, but none of the parties was even given proper due process within the University's Judicial Hearing process.
All may be true, but has nothing to do with what I said. If they did not follow their own procedure, then that is a basis for overturning the suspensions. Does not change the fact that noncriminal conduct can result in a suspension.
 
Last edited:
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All may be true, but has nothing to do with what I said. If they did not follow their own procedure, then that is a basis for overturning the suspensions. Does not change the fact that noncriminal conduct can result in a suspension.

Yes, I'm sure non-criminal behavior can result in suspension or other sanctions under the school's Code of Conduct Policies, but the accused students are typically entitled to some type of internal judicial process - usually including a hearing - prior to being declared guilty and sanctioned. I would think that the students being declared guilty and sanctioned prior to due process under the school's own procedures strongly suggests a presumption of guilt, which kind of identifies the school's due process procedures and hearing for the "kangaroo court" they are, no?
 
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I would also suppose that most folks - probably even you (and that's not a "dig" or a criticism due to your position - - - just a statement to indicate how bad, and how unrecognized, the situation is) have no F-ing idea just how F-Ed up the "Crime and Punishment" situation is at PSU - - - and most large Universities (including, presumably, Minnesota)

I can only speak in detail and with certainty wrt the PSU situation - - - but the complete idiots and conflicted azzholes running around with unfettered ability to F up people's lives.
Azzholes who you wouldn't trust to walk your dog - - - and who care only about furthering their agendas and self-interests
And let's not even START to discuss the "sexual assault and misconduct Nazis" subset of that group......the folks like Damon "Every CoEd on Campus gets Sexually Assualted....Some Twice" Simms


I don't know the Minnesota details.
I said before, I certainly don't know the UMinn AD and President.......but reading their "press release" sent shivers up my spine - - - and even without "knowing them" id be willing to lay some $$$$ on them both being complete douchebags

(I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but I'll say it again........watch the documentary "The Thin Blue Line" - - - if you have a soul, it may cause a few sleepless nights, but it is a template under which many of the situations we have been dealing with have been crafted - - - and also relevant to understanding the "Higher Education Crime and Punishment" issues)

You are spot on with respect to these issues at Penn State. I have raised my grave concerns about how we approach these issues both publicly and privately. In some respects it is a reaction to the Title IX issues and in other respects it is a gross reliance on legal advice that is at best questionable and at worst ... Well I'll have to pass on that one.
 
You are spot on with respect to these issues at Penn State. I have raised my grave concerns about how we approach these issues both publicly and privately. In some respects it is a reaction to the Title IX issues and in other respects it is a gross reliance on legal advice that is at best questionable and at worst ... Well I'll have to pass on that one.
TY.

I do hope that folks in positions of responsibility are aware of how FUBAR the situation is ......and would actually bring those issues out of the
closet where they tend to be locked up so as to avoid confrontation with the "Nazis"

I do know that issues like Damon Simms' "a guy being disappointed that a girl turns down his overtures is = sexual assault" survey was "entered into evidence as fact"............and there was not ONE WORD from ANY member of the PSU BOT
That kind of shit is not the (in)action that will get things done.......I hope the future brings more effective representation
:)
 
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Yes, I'm sure non-criminal behavior can result in suspension or other sanctions under the school's Code of Conduct Policies, but the accused students are typically entitled to some type of internal judicial process - usually including a hearing - prior to being declared guilty and sanctioned. I would think that the students being declared guilty and sanctioned prior to due process under the school's own procedures strongly suggests a presumption of guilt, which kind of identifies the school's due process procedures and hearing for the "kangaroo court" they are, no?
Right, so the issue is whether a pre-hearing deprivation is justified. Significantly, if the other players force MN to miss the bowl, it tangles up the analysis, since the University will say they did not lose anything. It is a tangled mess.
 
I would also suppose that most folks - probably even you (and that's not a "dig" or a criticism due to your position - - - just a statement to indicate how bad, and how unrecognized, the situation is) have no F-ing idea just how F-Ed up the "Crime and Punishment" situation is at PSU - - - and most large Universities (including, presumably, Minnesota)

I can only speak in detail and with certainty wrt the PSU situation - - - but the complete idiots and conflicted azzholes running around with unfettered ability to F up people's lives.
Azzholes who you wouldn't trust to walk your dog - - - and who care only about furthering their agendas and self-interests
And let's not even START to discuss the "sexual assault and misconduct Nazis" subset of that group......the folks like Damon "Every CoEd on Campus gets Sexually Assualted....Some Twice" Simms


I don't know the Minnesota details.
I said before, I certainly don't know the UMinn AD and President.......but reading their "press release" sent shivers up my spine - - - and even without "knowing them" id be willing to lay some $$$$ on them both being complete douchebags

(I mentioned it in an earlier thread, but I'll say it again........watch the documentary "The Thin Blue Line" - - - if you have a soul, it may cause a few sleepless nights, but it is a template under which many of the situations we have been dealing with have been crafted - - - and also relevant to understanding the "Higher Education Crime and Punishment" issues)

Are you basically implying that many public schools like PSU, a State-Founded, State-Sponsored and Publicly-Owned Institution of Higher Learning, wantonly ignores rights granted by Pennsylvania's own Constitution as well as those granted under the Federal Constitution's "Bill of Rights"? Given that many of the parties running PSU, including the EC of the BOT could be held to be "State Actors", I'm not sure that is legal.
 
jim delany has weighed in. In a statement released early this morning, delany said the following:

"I am deeply troubled by the allegations against the 10 University of Minnesota football players and the impact this could have on the Holiday Bowl in the short term and the Minnesota program in the longer term. In speaking with Minnesota athletic director Mark Coyle and football head coach Tracy Claeys, I am convinced that this matter will be handled appropriately. I also personally hold the University of Minnesota in high regard. As a result, I have decided that the 10 Minnesota players in question should play in the Holiday Bowl. In the interest of fair play, I have also decided that 10 players from James Franklin's starting lineup will be suspended from the Rose Bowl."
 
Entire Minnesota team boycotting Holiday Bowl

wow what a mess. Here is the university trying to show sensitivity to a woman who claims she was raped. But I definitely see the players' perspective -- the university publicly names 10 players and says they're being suspended as the result of a sexual assault investigation -- even though the local prosecutors didn't think there was a case to charge anybody -- and the "victim" has changed her story.

That is a lifetime of living under a cloud for those kids even if they're not guilty of anything other than being in the apartment drinking that night.

I like that the rest of the team is standing up for them.

If the university wants to impose lifetime consequences on these kids by identifying them in a sexual assault investigation, it had better have a REALLY good case.

https://www.washingtonpHst.com/news...o-protest-suspensions/?utm_term=.2f3dd20025af
 
Yes, I'm sure non-criminal behavior can result in suspension or other sanctions under the school's Code of Conduct Policies, but the accused students are typically entitled to some type of internal judicial process - usually including a hearing - prior to being declared guilty and sanctioned. I would think that the students being declared guilty and sanctioned prior to due process under the school's own procedures strongly suggests a presumption of guilt, which kind of identifies the school's due process procedures and hearing for the "kangaroo court" they are, no?
It is a legit question. Imagine a grade school teacher accused of Child Sex Abuse. While waiting for the resolution of both the criminal and the job-related legal actions, do you leave him in the classroom? Most places suspend him with pay. MN will argue that they are not stripping them of their scholarships, so this is a suspension "with pay," and therefore permitted. This is tricky for MN, since it throws the3 whole discussion of whether these are employees or not wide open. The universities are in some tough muddy ground here

These players can be sanctioned PRIOR to the process playing out, but it is a very tricky area of the law. Not nearly so simple as "Nothing can be done until they have had their hearing."

Now, before you tell me how different this is from a teacher being accused of CSA, I will remind you that we do not know the facts here. There is video. Did players who were not present share video of one of their teammates having sex with some woman? Did they lie when confronted about it? We. just. don't. know.
 
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wow what a mess. Here is the university trying to show sensitivity to a woman who claims she was raped. But I definitely see the players' perspective -- the university publicly names 10 players and says they're being suspended as the result of a sexual assault investigation -- even though the local prosecutors didn't think there was a case to charge anybody -- and the "victim" has changed her story.

That is a lifetime of living under a cloud for those kids even if they're not guilty of anything other than being in the apartment drinking that night.

I like that the rest of the team is standing up for them.

If the university wants to impose lifetime consequences on these kids by identifying them in a sexual assault investigation, it had better have a REALLY good case.

https://www.washingtonpHst.com/news...o-protest-suspensions/?utm_term=.2f3dd20025af

Minnesota should make huge payouts to the alleged victim, fire the head football coach via a late night phone call, and self impose sanctions. They should do this immediately before due process runs it's course. They football coach and players shouldn't be allowed to speak to the media.
 
Here's part of the problem. You can't have an objective "oversight" department, responsible for "Equal Opportunity & Affirmative Action", that is staffed almost exclusively by females. The lack of male representation in this group (i.e. gender diversity) is, in itself, a bit ironic

Kimberly D. Hewitt
Director, Title IX Coordinator

Tina Marisam
Assistant Director

Sofia Andersson-Stern
Associate to the Director

Maria Eustaquio
Associate to the Director

Gabrielle Mead
Associate to the Director

Kendra Okposo
Associate to the Director

James Mason
Associate to the Director

Stephanie Gandy
Executive Office and Administrative Specialist

The "responsibilities" of this group are included below:

The University of Minnesota's Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA) was founded in 1972 to ensure that all University community members uphold federal and state civil rights laws and regulations, as well as University equal opportunity policies.

The EOAA Office envisions a University community that is equitable—one that values the diversity of its workforce and student body and is free from discrimination and harassment. We act as a neutral party to advise individuals and departments about perceived, existing and potential discrimination, harassment, sexual violence, retaliation, and potential violations of the policy against nepotism through consultation and investigation.

EOAA investigates complaints about discrimination; harassment, including sexual harassment; sexual misconduct, including sexual assault, stalking, and relationship violence; nepotism; and retaliation.

EOAA provides educational programming on issues related to discrimination, harassment, sexual violence, bullying, religious discrimination, and the hiring process.

EOAA also is responsible for recommending changes and making revisions to relevant University policies and procedures.

EOAA provides educational programming on issues related to discrimination, harassment, sexual violence, bullying, religious discrimination, and the hiring process.
 
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