More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

[PSU2UNC]

Coaches aren't relevant. They don't make those decisions. Which earlier you acknowledged.

They are relevant because the ADs listen to the coaches. ADs aren't making decisions in a vaccum.

Banding together and caring doesn't mean you support immediate action or severe sanctions. It's cooperating with an investigation.

I'm pretty sure they gathered this information before the NCAA investigation started. This has been talked about among schools/coaches for awhile now.

Again, not coaches. ADs and University Presidents.

Agreed, but see point above. ADs listen to coaches. And I very much doubt University Presidents would be directly involved with this as it is purely an athletics matter.

This is what I mean by you being unable to support what you're saying. You're smarter than this.

I've supported everything I said. You just don't like it.

I don't care if Michigan gets the death penalty once the investigation is completed.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You obviously do.

I'm just trying to be realistic while you're talking about coaches being upset which means nothing.

See above. You are either clueless or in denial. I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I think he was probably able to get away with it since it was the first game of the season. New faces etc.

Nah ….. they were together all summer. This is crooked as he€€

 

[OaktonDave]

That is where I strongly disagree. You state that there was impact, yet you refuse to quantify. The plays are on film. Maybe we don't have the time and skill. But if this is bigger than Gaza, someone should be compiling the plays and showing that Michigan was winning because their defense and offense was winning the call way more than what should statistically is possible. That is how we know the Astros cheated. Pitching is about deception. If its two strikes, you have to protect the plate. The Astros benefited because they knew the breaking ball was not going to be a strike. So don't swing. They were swinging when they knew the pitch was a fastball. You state as fact while refusing to look at the data. My wife is a vaccine denier. She insists six figures of people have died because of myocarditis due to the COVID vaccine and that Fauci is going to be tried for crimes against humanity any minute now. You know how I end the conversation? I inquire if she wants to peruse the historic cardiac mortality tables compiled by each state. Pundits can speak what they say is the truth in their silo. The actuary tables do not lie. Anyone can say anything be about vaccines, election fraud, is Hunter Biden Kingpin, etc. Again, I am not commenting on what the penalty should be. Tom Brady was suspended four games for throwing a football in cold weather. Someone can choose whatever punishment they want. I just argue PV=nRT. Pretty obvious that if T goes down under constant V, P is going to go down just like my tires in the winter.

But its so much easier to declare what we want to believe without fact. I am uninterested in the results of the NCAA investigation because those people arbitrary. And you will know how beneficial Stalions work is by observing Michigan performance in the next four games. Should I consider it a done deal that UM will lose in Happy Valley? As you say this is massive.

So, in baseball "pitching is about deception" and knowing what was coming helped the batters. The same concept applies to football, but you don't seem to agree with that. The Astros didn't "know the breaking ball wasn't going to be a strike." Breaking balls are thrown for strikes all the time. The Astro batters knew by the beats on the can what pitch was coming - fastball, breaking pitch, change-up, etc. and sat on the pitch. The case against the Astros went far beyond statistical analysis and included a lot of evidence on how they did it, so any suggestion that the case was made by statistical analysis is simply wrong. Some statistical evidence was available after the fact because the Astros were only able to steal signs at home. One could compare home/road stats for the batters then at how specific batters performed against specific pitchers in similar situations. Any attempt at analyzing the effectiveness of the Astros cheating against generic statistics for all of baseball would have been worthless since you wouldn't be comparing like samples. For example, I would expect Jose Altuve to hit better than most MLB 2B; it's only when you compare Altuve against Altuve that you get any meaningful information. That said, none of it mattered because, even without any statistical support, the evidence showed that committed serious violations. Whether their efforts resulted in tangible benefits was and is irrelevant.

You want some analysis of whether UM's performance is statistically possible, but that can only be determined by looking at UM, not analysis of other teams. Like the Astros, UM is very good, so one would expect them to be better than most other teams. You can't say they did benefit by looking at Purdue or Rutgers data and can't say they didn't by looking at UGA. The question, to the degree that's even relevant, is "how much better did they do by knowing the opponent's plays than they would have if they didn't" and there's no way to learn that by looking at any team other than UM.

 

[LandoComando]

They are relevant because the ADs listen to the coaches. ADs aren't making decisions in a vaccum.

I'm pretty sure they gathered this information before the NCAA investigation started. This has been talked about among schools/coaches for awhile now.

Agreed, but see point above. ADs listen to coaches. And I very much doubt University Presidents would be directly involved with this as it is purely an athletics matter.

I've supported everything I said. You just don't like it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You obviously do.

See above. You are either clueless or in denial. I'm leaning towards the latter.

ADs don't make decisions based on what their coaches want. Far from it. That's how to get fired.
You don't support things. You give opinions.
Presidents will be involved. This is financial not just athletic.
How do I care? Because I'm discussing it? Again you're not making sense
Not clueless or in denial. You think that because you keep focusing on what "Should" happen as opposed to what is "likely" or "realisitic" .

 

[psu00]

Nah ….. they were together all summer. This is crooked as he€€

Not to mention he appears to be wearing the CMU coaches gear. If he just snuck onto the sideline, where did he get the matching clothes from? Someone at CMU was involved and helped him IMO.

 

[The Spin Meister]

They are relevant because the ADs listen to the coaches. ADs aren't making decisions in a vaccum.

I'm pretty sure they gathered this information before the NCAA investigation started. This has been talked about among schools/coaches for awhile now.

Agreed, but see point above. ADs listen to coaches. And I very much doubt University Presidents would be directly involved with this as it is purely an athletics matter.

I've supported everything I said. You just don't like it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You obviously do.

See above. You are either clueless or in denial. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Agree with everything except the comments about U Presidents. They will get involved because this in affects both image and finances.

And they never miss a chance to get in front of TV cameras and pose.

 

[bluehair666]

I didn't matter as much as you wanted it to to make excuses for us not winning enough
Public opinion is public opinion--right or wrong
And those guys that take analyst roles understand that and are just looking path to a better job. What is better than fixing a program after something like this?
It's not an opt out. At all--it's self placed sanctions and the Pac XII agreed to them. Opting out of a bowl game is entirely different as you know. It's not the same argument. At all. You literally can't be this stupid. Actually...
What points do you think you're making? You haven't supported anything--you're giving opinions
Because not once did I defend Michigan and you know it. Accountability is a word you should learn.

actually, i think he is that stupid..he's cited as supporting "evidence", clickbait articles and anonymous coaches...and as you correctly stated, coaches not named saben don't make final decisions in these matters....and i love the meaningless post showing video of finebaum, a guy who literally gets his paycheck from the $ec 🤡

 

[PSU2UNC]

actually, i think he is that stupid..he's cited as supporting "evidence", clickbait articles and anonymous coaches...and as you correctly stated, coaches not named saben don't make final decisions in these matters....and i love the meaningless post showing video of finebaum, a guy who literally gets his paycheck from the $ec 🤡

LOL, I'm sure The Athletic is clickbait. Get real.

Coaches are furious about this. Heads will roll.

 

[Psubiomed]

Does this mean you'll stop obsessing over him and.....you know.....get a life??

Na. I'll run roughshod over you instead.

 

[PSU2UNC]

ADs don't make decisions based on what their coaches want. Far from it. That's how to get fired.

ADs don't do everything every coach wants. But if you think coaches don't have input, you are clueless. As an example, Franklin absolutely lobbied Kraft about infrastructure, NIL and support staff salaries. I'm sure he didn't get everything he wanted (nor should he) but there is almost constant communication between coaches and the ADs on a variety of topics. I can confidently say this has been discussed between coaches and ADs.

You don't support things. You give opinions.

I provide citations. You provide nothing to back up your opinions.

Presidents will be involved. This is financial not just athletic.

Not really. "A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for a Playoff Semifinal"
Source (see, not hard): https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sports/2017/9/20/revenue-distribution.aspx
That's $428K per school. That's chump change compared to TV $$ etc. And certainly not enough money to sell your soul as a conference to allow rampant cheating.

How do I care? Because I'm discussing it? Again you're not making sense

You are spending a tremendous amount of time discussing it, and while you claim to "not be on Michigan's side", your posting tells another story.

Not clueless or in denial. You think that because you keep focusing on what "Should" happen as opposed to what is "likely" or "realisitic" .

You have a poor handle on what is likely or realistic.

 

[Psubiomed]

ADs don't do everything every coach wants. But if you think coaches don't have input, you are clueless. As an example, Franklin absolutely lobbied Kraft about infrastructure, NIL and support staff salaries. I'm sure he didn't get everything he wanted (nor should he) but there is almost constant communication between coaches and the ADs on a variety of topics. I can confidently say this has been discussed between coaches and ADs.

I provide citations. You provide nothing to back up your opinions.

Not really. "A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for a Playoff Semifinal"
Source (see, not hard): https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sports/2017/9/20/revenue-distribution.aspx
That's $428K per school. That's chump change compared to TV $$ etc. And certainly not enough money to sell your soul as a conference to allow rampant cheating.


You are spending a tremendous amount of time discussing it, and while you claim to "not be on Michigan's side", your posting tells another story.

You have a poor handle on what is likely or realistic.

The level of beat down Lando is taking is exquisite. The salty Lando tears are delicious 😋

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I hope everyone can now CLEARLY SEE that Lando is EXACTLY WHO I SAID HE WAS LAST YEAR. A Michigan troll. Thank you UNC for exposing him.

No doubt, I have him on ignore now so can't see what he's been saying, but said a long time ago that he was a scUM troll posing as a PSU fan. The fact he's posing as a PSU fan for the purpose of spewing his b1g/scUM troll garbage tells you everything you need to know about his "integrity" and views on the topic.

 

[WaylonJ]

Why did Paul change his tune? Probably he checked with all his SEC contacts, and was reassured of either one or two things.
1. The SEC teams told him they weren’t engaging in this behavior.
2. Or, they told him they were doing it in a manner that the crack Inspector Clouseau’s of the NCAA would never uncover it.

First thing I wondered too. Somebody got to him.

 

[Thomas1945]

Who say 13 of the 14 want them to act? Show me that? Show proof of that and I'll agree with you.
Oregon, Washington, UCLA and USC want the money--they don't care about if Michigan is punished.
College sports is all about money even if you dislike that reality

I think there’s a flaw or two in your argument here. If, and that’s a reasonable if, 13 schools are having behind the scenes discussions then it’s rather flippant of you to demand him to have verifiable proof at this point in time. Especially from one who regularly insists that his opinions are facts.

While college sports are revenue driven, (or all about money), as you stated, they (coaches and players) are after all representatives of universities. Although the connections do become more tenuous as time passes. There certainly is a point where administrators don’t want or need to tolerate such behavior. As such, a university’s reputation as viewed by the public, and as presented by the media will then often outweigh the revenue derived from a sports program. In this instance, that point has not yet been reached, but one cannot equivocally state that it won’t be.

History clearly shows that more coaches and AD’s are punished in these circumstances than college presidents. That I believe is a verifiable fact. Or are you stating otherwise that consistently bad public perception and reputation damage doesn’t generally trump sports revenue in these situations. Now there is the occasional exception, but that’s a rather odd position to defend.

 

[Obliviax]

First thing I wondered too. Somebody got to him.

..and he made a HARD turn calling "trusting jim Harbaugh" as "one of the worst mistakes of my 20 year career".

 

[WaylonJ]

..and he made a HARD turn calling "trusting jim Harbaugh" as "one of the worst mistakes of my 20 year career".

Yes, maybe some hyperbolic wry humor there but yeah. Big 180.

 

[psu00]

 

[Psubiomed]

No doubt, I have him on ignore now so can't see what he's been saying, but said a long time ago that he was a scUM troll posing as a PSU fan. The fact he's posing as a PSU fan for the purpose of spewing his b1g/scUM troll garbage tells you everything you need to know about his "integrity" and views on the topic.

I have been calling this ch#$ks$it out for a year and finally he was exposed. Beautiful.

 

[Roar More]

I have been calling this ch#$ks$it out for a year and finally he was exposed. Beautiful.

And for months I have been asking why people engage this fool. He is a perfect example of why "ignore" is an option. More people should use it. (You know who you are,)

 

[Psubiomed]

And for months I have been asking why people engage this fool. He is a perfect example of why "ignore" is an option. More people should use it. (You know who you are,)

I exposed him last year when he could not name one single dorm room or apartment complex in State College.

 

[surfmom]

looked at recruiting classes, looks like:
year - recruiting class, record (coach). final AP rank
sources: 247 for recruiting class

2013 - 4th, 7-6 (Hoke)
2014 - 20th. 5-7 (Hoke)
2015 - 37th. 10-3 (Harbaugh), 12th AP
2016 - 7th. 10-3 (Harbaugh), 10th AP
2017 - 5th. 8-5 (Harbaugh)
2018 - 22nd. 10-3 (Harbaugh). 14th AP
2019 - 10th. 9-4 (Harbaugh). 18th AP
2020 - 12th. 2-4 (Harbaugh)
2021 - 13th. 12-2 (Harbaugh). 3rd
2022 - 12th. 13-1 (Harbaugh). 3rd
2023 - 20th

 

[PSU2UNC]

I exposed him last year when he could not name one single dorm room or apartment complex in State College.

Hilarious but also helladumb. Does he not know how google works? LOL.

 

[christoph]

The defensive players for UM must know. This is like a culture of cheating established by the coach. So sad

 

[Obliviax]

The defensive players for UM must know. This is like a culture of cheating established by the coach. So sad

There was a video that went around from last years (or maybe the year before) tOSU/UM game. tOSU goes to the LOS and then checks with the coaches. The tOSU coaches signal in a play. Stalion yells in the DC's ear and about five players start jumping up and down pointing to the sky obviously knowing what Stalion just told the DC. it is clear that they know that Stalion knows tOSU's signals.

 

[Psubiomed]

National pressure ramping up now on the Big Ten...3 more articles today calling for the conference to act now, not post season. Arizona Daily Star, Paul Finebaum, Sacramento Bee, now added to the list. It's nation wide and the Commissioner this time can't cover for, or give favor to, Michigan...story is just too big now and getting bigger by the hour now.

 

[MacNit2.0]

National pressure ramping up now on the Big Ten...3 more articles today calling for the conference to act now, not post season. Arizona Daily Star, Paul Finebaum, Sacramento Bee, now added to the list. It's nation wide and the Commissioner this time can't cover for, or give favor to, Michigan...story is just too big now and getting bigger by the hour now.

The Big10 are born crooks.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The defensive players for UM must know. This is like a culture of cheating established by the coach. So sad

Have been wondering….any comments from any players? Any tweets or social media posts?

Many had to know what was going on. Hope they get subpoenas in upcoming lawsuits.

 

[LandoComando]

ADs don't do everything every coach wants. But if you think coaches don't have input, you are clueless. As an example, Franklin absolutely lobbied Kraft about infrastructure, NIL and support staff salaries. I'm sure he didn't get everything he wanted (nor should he) but there is almost constant communication between coaches and the ADs on a variety of topics. I can confidently say this has been discussed between coaches and ADs.

I provide citations. You provide nothing to back up your opinions.

Not really. "A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for a Playoff Semifinal"
Source (see, not hard): https://collegefootballplayoff.com/sports/2017/9/20/revenue-distribution.aspx
That's $428K per school. That's chump change compared to TV $$ etc. And certainly not enough money to sell your soul as a conference to allow rampant cheating.


You are spending a tremendous amount of time discussing it, and while you claim to "not be on Michigan's side", your posting tells another story.

You have a poor handle on what is likely or realistic.

I'm not the one that's not being realistic here. And, deep down, I think you know that.
Input is great but AGAIN coaches don't make decision. Especially about how they handle like this. ADs aren't typically worried about keeping a coach. For example, Franklin has to pay us to leave as well.
You aren't providing citations (not sure you know what that means) you're providing links that aren't truly related to the discussion. Just in the ballpark. Like the bowl opt out.
We're all spending a lot of time discussing it because a topic.
Again, what post I have made that's "pro Michigan"? Just one that supported Michigan

 

[LandoComando]

I think there’s a flaw or two in your argument here. If, and that’s a reasonable if, 13 schools are having behind the scenes discussions then it’s rather flippant of you to demand him to have verifiable proof at this point in time. Especially from one who regularly insists that his opinions are facts.

While college sports are revenue driven, (or all about money), as you stated, they (coaches and players) are after all representatives of universities. Although the connections do become more tenuous as time passes. There certainly is a point where administrators don’t want or need to tolerate such behavior. As such, a university’s reputation as viewed by the public, and as presented by the media will then often outweigh the revenue derived from a sports program. In this instance, that point has not yet been reached, but one cannot equivocally state that it won’t be.

History clearly shows that more coaches and AD’s are punished in these circumstances than college presidents. That I believe is a verifiable fact. Or are you stating otherwise that consistently bad public perception and reputation damage doesn’t generally trump sports revenue in these situations. Now there is the occasional exception, but that’s a rather odd position to defend.

What are you talking about? Your first paragraph makes absolutely no sense.
Coaches and players are replaceable, no? You admit college sports are driven by revenue yet you're arguing decisions won't be made by what is financially the best decision because the public is going to care? What? How?
I never said the President would be punished. Ever. Not at any point. I said they'll be involved in how they want to proceed.
What "reputation damage" is going to occur if Michigan isn't punished? If Michigan isn't "punished" how does that hurt Penn State's reputation?

 

[LandoComando]

National pressure ramping up now on the Big Ten...3 more articles today calling for the conference to act now, not post season. Arizona Daily Star, Paul Finebaum, Sacramento Bee, now added to the list. It's nation wide and the Commissioner this time can't cover for, or give favor to, Michigan...story is just too big now and getting bigger by the hour now.

And the Big Ten is going to say what we all know what they're going to say
The crazy thing is--almost every post you're all making fully agrees with me that the Big Ten doesn't want to do anything and the NCAA won't do anything (or at least not soon) yet you all claim that's not realistic.
It's weird

 

[Obliviax]

Have been wondering….any comments from any players? Any tweets or social media posts?

Many had to know what was going on. Hope they get subpoenas in upcoming lawsuits.

Hutchinson, the first-round player for Detroit Lions from UM, skirted the question. See below. UM had a bye week last week so UM was fortunate that this broke when nobody was around.

Since this time, Hutch says he didn't have a relationship, that he was one of the coaches "upstairs". Several people posted photos of the two together.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Hutchinson, the first-round player for Detroit Lions from UM, skirted the question. See below. UM had a bye week last week so UM was fortunate that this broke when nobody was around.

Since this time, Hutch says he didn't have a relationship, that he was one of the coaches "upstairs". Several people posted photos of the two together.

View embedded media

That dude was lying the entire clip. Very nervous, very cautious.

 

[Obliviax]

That dude was lying the entire clip. Very nervous, very cautious.

yeah...

• I didn't know the guy, he was one of the booth guys
• time will pass and people will forget
• Everyone cheats anyway

 

[Thomas1945]

What are you talking about? Your first paragraph makes absolutely no sense.
Coaches and players are replaceable, no? You admit college sports are driven by revenue yet you're arguing decisions won't be made by what is financially the best decision because the public is going to care? What? How?
I never said the President would be punished. Ever. Not at any point. I said they'll be involved in how they want to proceed.
What "reputation damage" is going to occur if Michigan isn't punished? If Michigan isn't "punished" how does that hurt Penn State's reputation?

I make no sense, Good Lord, what a deflective stream of useless word salad you responded with. Ignoring issues, completely changing any comments to fit your ridiculous narrative. What an egotistical, defensive, and useless reply. No wonder most of this board considers you worthless. Have a rainbow 🌈 day cupcake.

 

[WaylonJ]

Since this time, Hutch says he didn't have a relationship, that he was one of the coaches "upstairs". Several people posted photos of the two together.

For a "coach upstairs" the dude certainly gets up and down from the sidelines pretty quick. Must be that USMC cardio.

 

[LandoComando]

I make no sense, Good Lord, what a deflective stream of useless word salad you responded with. Ignoring issues, completely changing any comments to fit your ridiculous narrative. What an egotistical, defensive, and useless reply. No wonder most of this board considers you worthless. Have a rainbow 🌈 day cupcake.

It doesn't make sense--read it again
Most of the board doesn't like they aren't smart enough to discuss things with me or lack the knowledge to.
You're defensive because you know I'm right. It's okay. I get it.

 

[Westcoast24]

I don't agree at all.

What we've seen isn't a one-time deal where some low level staffer got caught. We've got a guy who stood next to the DC with a diagram of the signals in his hand, who traveled to multiple places, somehow got himself on CMU's sideline, and spent thousands of dollars doing it. This is systemic.

Now add in the OC being under FBI investigation for computer activities and Harbaugh's "suspension" and you've got quite a mess. Of course, the NCAA can try to blow it over but they've really suffered and can't afford yet another collapse of credibility.

When did he personally travel to multiple places? I’ve only seen the CMU one that he was there? I would like to read the articles if you have them. I’ve been busy moving so haven’t had a chance to look as much as usual

 

[Psubiomed]

"coach upstairs" 😂😂😂
Dude, there are MULTIPLE PICTURES OF YOU TWO ARM IN ARM.

 

[Psubiomed]

Out here in The southwest, multiple local sports talk anchors calling for the Big Ten to act now... calling the commissioner a coward...

 

[Thomas1945]

Most of the board doesn't like they aren't smart enough to discuss things with me or lack the knowledge to.

To everyone here who interacts with this egotistical fool. This is what he thinks of you. Of course him forming a complete sentence might have enhanced his credibility.