More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

[lazydave841]

Tom Mars has owned the ncaa in court, and he happens to be harbaugh's attorney..first step would be to find a friendly judge, probably a UM grad, and have an injunction issued..that would go into effect immediately and legally restrain the big ten from handing out any penalty without due process..yes, belonging to the big ten is voluntary, but an institution and it's employees and students don't lose basic legal rights by joining..

Gotcha. His claim to fame is helping players gain transfer access without sitting out a full season.

Tell me about his ownership of the NCAA in regards to these types of events and accusations. I don't see any record of him clearing the name of a team accused of cheating.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Wow Michigan football is just flaming pile of dog feces

They need to be kicked out of the conference and all sports terminated🧐😉

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

There’s no apparent rule against inviting someone from another staff, because prior to this it would seem ridiculous, but still it’s not forbidden.

Advanced scouting rules apply to the team you work for. CMU wasn’t advanced scouting anyone and the rules aren’t written to cover this weird scenario. If you want to argue there are morality or sportsmanship rules CMU violated fine that’s reasonable. You still havent provided any evidence he had a legit field pass and not a fake one he created to sneak on after buying a ticket or acquiring some other form of credential.

I also never said McElwain was the one that invited him.

Wrong, it is a rules violation for CMU to assist in another team's advance scouting scheme - you keep saying that is not so, but you're absolutely wrong. CMU knew scUM was playing MSU in several weeks. CMU knew exactly who Stalions was and that it was not legal for him to be there on their sidelines for an opponent scUM was playing in several weeks. CMU is absolutely complicit in the NCAA Rules Violation (especially given that their is footage throughout the game of Stalions communicating with the CMU Staff. Absolutely a Rules Violation for CMU to provide access to their Team Sideline via a Sideline pass when they know exactly who he is and that scUM is playing their Opponent, MSU, in a couple weeks down the road. You saying it's okay, doesn't make it so.

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

 

[wilbury]

just try not to poop your pants on saturday, would suck if psu was out of the top 20 when they get thumped by Michigan

Fortunately the results won't matter

 

[hfhmilkman]

I would agree with that. However, how does someone with no connection to CMU get on and stay on the sideline without the assistance of someone from CMU? Maybe higher up. Maybe lower level.

One of the members of mgoblog podcast gave a speculation. Not everyone on the podcast agrees. CMU does not have budget for a dedicated sign stealer like a typical P5 team. McElwain brought Stalions in to steal signs for CMU. I watched that game. That game was one of the reasons why I concluded MSU was not a serious team. If CMU had a functioning QB, they might have been able to do something.

 

[wilbury]

You are a troll and he owns u. Not one single person on here respects you a$$hole. Now go back to your little cubby hole you came from. I thought it was downright hilarious when you completely vanished from the board after TCU won last year 😂

What dorm was that again dude? U a Penn State grad right? Who were your profs? What major again? What buildings were your courses again?

😂

He's not a Michigan troll. He's just not very smart. The next time he's right about something will be the first time. Put him on ignore like the rest of us and move on. He'll be fine living in his parent's basement.

 

[LandoComando]

He's not a Michigan troll. He's just not very smart. The next time he's right about something will be the first time. Put him on ignore like the rest of us and move on. He'll be fine living in his parent's basement.

lmao--if you were ignoring me you wouldn't respond
And to claim I'm never right might be the dumbest thing said here which is impressive.

 

[hfhmilkman]

cheating is cheating. why would UM cheat if it wasn't a big deal? why take the risk?

the schools have no power but are clearly lobbying the B1G and NCAA to do something and quickly. I think we'll hear something fairly soon. I'll be surprised if UM is eligible for post season play, to be honest. (could be wrong, of course)

How can their be punishment if there is no formal charge? You know the rules. NCAA has to complete the investigation and the target has 90 days to respond. This is not a what is the right thing to do. This is the procedure. And it is not clear any school is doing anything. You click bait journalists claiming anonymous sources. If a school/schools are demanding the process be expedited, they should be public about it. Congress would.

 

[Obliviax]

How can their be punishment if there is no formal charge? You know the rules. NCAA has to complete the investigation and the target has 90 days to respond. This is not a what is the right thing to do. This is the procedure. And it is not clear any school is doing anything. You click bait journalists claiming anonymous sources. If a school/schools are demanding the process be expedited, they should be public about it. Congress would.

You don’t know nor do I. But they can easily suspend pending investigation

 

[hfhmilkman]

I'm not disagreeing about the crossing route (2 PSU defenders collided. It was a fluke play. PSU should have won that game).

However, using draft picks as evidence that Michigan got better is a questionable line of reasoning. The NFL absolutely looks at film in addition to combine measurables. Those players would look better if they knew what play was coming, no? So the draft stock of any player from 2021 to now should be higher than it would have been without cheating.

No. All of those players also have to go through the combine. There is plenty of examples of great college football players who get drafted down appropriately. Aiden Hutchinson did not get drafted second because a sign stealer made him look good. Are the Detroit Lions cheating because suddenly a team that has lost for decades is suddenly winning? Is Hutchinson cheating at the Lions and that is the only reason for is outstanding PFF numbers. College is about talent. That is why Georgia, Alabama, and OSU are always in the mix. It is why the recruiting season is more important than the regular season. You don't have the players, you have a ceiling no matter how good your staff is.

 

[psu00]

As for CMU, they could very well be in trouble. Apparently there is a specific form that gets filled out stating all of the names of who get the bench area passes. That is signed and confirmed by both the coach and the AD (or the AD’s representative) and given to the opposing team and the conference.

We know Connor Stalions name was not on the list per the CMU head coach.

That means someone put a fake name on the list and gave the credentials to Stalions instead. They also (apparently) gave him the specific coaching gear to wear for the game so he would blend in and not be noticed.

Someone at CMU falsified the forms and the coach and AD signed off on it.

Plus, Stalions was standing near the CMU coaches during the game. There’s no way they didn’t know who he was or would have asked who is this stranger wearing coaching gear with us? The CMU head coach and Stalions knew each other when they were both at Michigan.

 

[hfhmilkman]

You don’t know nor do I. But they can easily suspend pending investigation

I don't think so. The NCAA only has authority up to what a school will allow. If the NCAA attempted to pass judgment without formal allegations, they would be ignored.

 

[psu00]

I don't think so. The NCAA only has authority up to what a school will allow. If the NCAA attempted to pass judgment without formal allegations, they would be ignored.

The conference apparently has more leeway. That’s part of why the coaches and ADs meeting with the Big Ten commish got such attention.

 

[LandoComando]

The conference apparently has more leeway. That’s part of why the coaches and ADs meeting with the Big Ten commish got such attention.

It got so much attention because people like a good story. Even Rhule said it was a standard, scheduled meeting with the coaches. It wasn't anything special or specifically related to this. The only newsworthy thing was they had Harbaugh leave for the last 30 minutes so the other coaches could speak freely.
For all we know, the AD meeting was also scheduled and isn't even related.
Again, all for suspending Harbaugh and the coaches while the investigation is ongoing but to think anything is happening soon is unrealistic if not delusional.

 

[lazydave841]

Frustrated Big Ten coaches push for league to discipline Michigan for sign-stealing, AP sources say

There is mounting pressure on Big Ten Commissioner Tony Petitti to discipline Michigan and coach Jim Harbaugh for a sign-stealing scheme.

apnews.com

Didn't see it mentioned, but ADs are meeting with the commissioner today. Does Tony listen to them?

 

[YYZ86]

That is where I strongly disagree. You state that there was impact, yet you refuse to quantify. The plays are on film. Maybe we don't have the time and skill. But if this is bigger than Gaza, someone should be compiling the plays and showing that Michigan was winning because their defense and offense was winning the call way more than what should statistically is possible. That is how we know the Astros cheated. Pitching is about deception. If its two strikes, you have to protect the plate. The Astros benefited because they knew the breaking ball was not going to be a strike. So don't swing. They were swinging when they knew the pitch was a fastball. You state as fact while refusing to look at the data. My wife is a vaccine denier. She insists six figures of people have died because of myocarditis due to the COVID vaccine and that Fauci is going to be tried for crimes against humanity any minute now. You know how I end the conversation? I inquire if she wants to peruse the historic cardiac mortality tables compiled by each state. Pundits can speak what they say is the truth in their silo. The actuary tables do not lie. Anyone can say anything be about vaccines, election fraud, is Hunter Biden Kingpin, etc. Again, I am not commenting on what the penalty should be. Tom Brady was suspended four games for throwing a football in cold weather. Someone can choose whatever punishment they want. I just argue PV=nRT. Pretty obvious that if T goes down under constant V, P is going to go down just like my tires in the winter.

But its so much easier to declare what we want to believe without fact. I am uninterested in the results of the NCAA investigation because those people arbitrary. And you will know how beneficial Stalions work is by observing Michigan performance in the next four games. Should I consider it a done deal that UM will lose in Happy Valley? As you say this is massive.

A lot of meaningless words here. It doesn’t matter if there was impact if you have an ounce of integrity. Either they broke rules or they didn’t. I always let things play out before forming an opinion. What happens after potentially being caught is meaningless on the act itself. I

 

[Westcoast24]

He's not a Michigan troll. He's just not very smart. The next time he's right about something will be the first time. Put him on ignore like the rest of us and move on. He'll be fine living in his parent's basement.

Biomed has already bragged multiple times how he has lando on ignore. Can’t imagine biomed doesntbhave him on ignore already. He’s said he has many times.

 

[hfhmilkman]

The problem is, we do not know how Michigan's knowledge on that play affected its result.

Michigan didn't upgrade with talent. Look at Rivals recruiting scores. Booger did nothing different the last 3 years. Maybe more dudes got drafted cos they appeared to be better than they are based on knowing the plays coming to them. Again, we do not know now. That is the entire problem with this scandal.

Booger didn't wake up and have and epiphany which explains the statistical outliers with his performance. Moreover, he is lying about not knowing who this guy is.

Continue to live in denial but it is so simple and obvious what took place.

Two problems. You know exactly how the defensive play call was affected by the offensive call. Was PSU in an adequate formation to defend the play? I would argue the defensive formation was fine. PSU defenders do not collide, its a bang/bang play if it can be completed. Certainly no YAC. It was a PSU initiated fubar all the way.

I will summarize what I said earlier in the thread. UM is benefiting heavily from NIL. 2023 team has six NIL transfers on the 2 deep. That includes two O-linemen who start, a CB who starts, the 2nd TE who has the highest PFF grades at the position outside of Brock Browers, a DE who gets 30 snaps and leads the team in sacks, and a LB who gets 30 snaps. 2 of those guys are probably 2nd round draft picks.

UM is also going after players other blue chip schools are not interested in. UM is a run heavy team. OSU is not interested in road grading guards. OSU wants taller, lighter, more agile guards. A Zak Zinter is not interesting to OSU. Michigan likes to have an anchor DE. A Mike Morris player is not interesting to PSU. He is too big and too slow. But a run stopper who can occasionally bull rush is just fine. If you are interested in being a run blocking linemen, Michigan and Illinois are the only power running holdouts.

Lastly, UM struck gold in that a number of players turned out to be completely misdiagnosed by the recruiting agencies. Mason Graham is probably going to be a high 1st round pick in 2025. He was a four star. Yet he became a starter last year as freshmen. How many DT's start as true freshmen? Is that all play calling? Or did UM stumble on to a few better players?

 

[LandoComando]

Biomed has already bragged multiple times how he has lando on ignore. Can’t imagine biomed doesntbhave him on ignore already. He’s said he has many times.

I might have myself on ignore at this point--gotta fit in

 

[Psubiomed]

Two problems. You know exactly how the defensive play call was affected by the offensive call. Was PSU in an adequate formation to defend the play? I would argue the defensive formation was fine. PSU defenders do not collide, its a bang/bang play if it can be completed. Certainly no YAC. It was a PSU initiated fubar all the way.

I will summarize what I said earlier in the thread. UM is benefiting heavily from NIL. 2023 team has six NIL transfers on the 2 deep. That includes two O-linemen who start, a CB who starts, the 2nd TE who has the highest PFF grades at the position outside of Brock Browers, a DE who gets 30 snaps and leads the team in sacks, and a LB who gets 30 snaps. 2 of those guys are probably 2nd round draft picks.

UM is also going after players other blue chip schools are not interested in. UM is a run heavy team. OSU is not interested in road grading guards. OSU wants taller, lighter, more agile guards. A Zak Zinter is not interesting to OSU. Michigan likes to have an anchor DE. A Mike Morris player is not interesting to PSU. He is too big and too slow. But a run stopper who can occasionally bull rush is just fine. If you are interested in being a run blocking linemen, Michigan and Illinois are the only power running holdouts.

Lastly, UM struck gold in that a number of players turned out to be completely misdiagnosed by the recruiting agencies. Mason Graham is probably going to be a high 1st round pick in 2025. He was a four star. Yet he became a starter last year as freshmen. How many DT's start as true freshmen? Is that all play calling? Or did UM stumble on to a few better players?

Maybe they just know all the plays the other team is running...

Yeah. I'll go with that. They know what the other team is doing on every play, both on offense and defense.

There you go. You're welcome.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

So one theme from the Ann Arbor gaslighters is that the Big 10 won’t act while an investigation is ongoing. But then there’s this (emphasis mine):

“The most powerful message, according to sources familiar with the call, came from Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller. He mentioned the alterations Michigan State needed to undergo in order to prepare for its game with Michigan after receiving a call Wednesday of that game week about Michigan having Michigan State’s signals.

Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they’d be going on plays.

He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.

Haller is not typically one of the more vocal athletic directors on calls, so both his voice and the passion he spoke with resonated with the athletic directors and Big Ten officials on the call, sources said.”

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

So one theme from the Ann Arbor gaslighters is that the Big 10 won’t act while an investigation is ongoing. But then there’s this (emphasis mine):

“The most powerful message, according to sources familiar with the call, came from Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller. He mentioned the alterations Michigan State needed to undergo in order to prepare for its game with Michigan after receiving a call Wednesday of that game week about Michigan having Michigan State’s signals.

Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they’d be going on plays.

He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.

Haller is not typically one of the more vocal athletic directors on calls, so both his voice and the passion he spoke with resonated with the athletic directors and Big Ten officials on the call, sources said.”

Ban them shits

 

[LandoComando]

So one theme from the Ann Arbor gaslighters is that the Big 10 won’t act while an investigation is ongoing. But then there’s this (emphasis mine):

“The most powerful message, according to sources familiar with the call, came from Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller. He mentioned the alterations Michigan State needed to undergo in order to prepare for its game with Michigan after receiving a call Wednesday of that game week about Michigan having Michigan State’s signals.

Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they’d be going on plays.

He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.

Haller is not typically one of the more vocal athletic directors on calls, so both his voice and the passion he spoke with resonated with the athletic directors and Big Ten officials on the call, sources said.”

Most of those that don't think the Big Ten will act don't think a suspension is action. They can suspended Harbaugh and other coaches while they review. That's probably what they should do.
We just won't see a postseason ban or real sanctions

 

[fastlax16]

Wrong, it is a rules violation for CMU to assist in another team's advance scouting scheme - you keep saying that is not so, but you're absolutely wrong. CMU knew scUM was playing MSU in several weeks. CMU knew exactly who Stalions was and that it was not legal for him to be there on their sidelines for an opponent scUM was playing in several weeks. CMU is absolutely complicit in the NCAA Rules Violation (especially given that their is footage throughout the game of Stalions communicating with the CMU Staff. Absolutely a Rules Violation for CMU to provide access to their Team Sideline via a Sideline pass when they know exactly who he is and that scUM is playing their Opponent, MSU, in a couple weeks down the road. You saying it's okay, doesn't make it so.

CMU knew exactly who Stalions was- Assumption

CMU is absolutely complicit in the NCAA Rules Violation (especially given that their is footage throughout the game of Stalions communicating with the CMU Staff- Also assumption

when they know exactly who he is- Assumption

I'm not saying they didn't but nothing that's come out has definitively explained how he got there or who knew as badly as you want this to be some sort of giant scheme CMU was involved in as well.

You saying they knew who he was doesn't make it so.

 

[psu00]

CMU knew exactly who Stalions was- Assumption

CMU is absolutely complicit in the NCAA Rules Violation (especially given that their is footage throughout the game of Stalions communicating with the CMU Staff- Also assumption

when they know exactly who he is- Assumption

I'm not saying they didn't but nothing that's come out has definitively explained how he got there or who knew as badly as you want this to be some sort of giant scheme CMU was involved in as well.

You saying they knew who he was doesn't make it so.

I agree there’s a lot of assumption, but that’s because the people involved, (from Michigan to CMU officials), are remaining silent. Saw this on the CMU board. Just a little more insight into the Stalions on the CMU sideline episode.

 

[Thomas1945]

I agree there’s a lot of assumption, but that’s because the people involved, (from Michigan to CMU officials), are remaining silent. Saw this on the CMU board. Just a little more insight into the Stalions on the CMU sideline episode.

View embedded media

That was really an interesting and telling video. I recommend that everyone listen to it. Not a spoiler alert, but if true, I found the reason that Harbaugh hasn’t signed a new monster contract to be quite telling. If Franklin gets wind of the money UM was laying on the table we’re in renegotiation and extension protocol again.

 

[dailybuck777]

Purdue coach on the record states that Michigan is guilty -- these matters are not allegations. https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2023/...ting-they-werent-allegations-it-happened.html

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

This cheating has been going on since possibly 2015?

 

[dailybuck777]

I agree there’s a lot of assumption, but that’s because the people involved, (from Michigan to CMU officials), are remaining silent. Saw this on the CMU board. Just a little more insight into the Stalions on the CMU sideline episode.

View embedded media

At 6:52 the commentators say that Central Michigan knew who was there.

 

[dailybuck777]

I will summarize what I said earlier in the thread. UM is benefiting heavily from NIL. 2023 team has six NIL transfers on the 2 deep. That includes two O-linemen who start, a CB who starts, the 2nd TE who has the highest PFF grades at the position outside of Brock Browers, a DE who gets 30 snaps and leads the team in sacks, and a LB who gets 30 snaps. 2 of those guys are probably 2nd round draft picks.

I would say that Michigan is benefitting from the transfer portal because it cheated its way to success in 21 and 22 and that "success" gives potential transfers a false picture of the quality of coaching at Michigan.

 

[dailybuck777]

Here is my suggestion as to how to have a quick and fair hearing and attempt to make sure that the current cheaters don't benefit from their cheating.

1. Have the Big Ten collect the documentary and computer evidence and give it to Michigan and ask whether it is valid. Giving Michigan about 3 weeks to reply as to whether it is authentic or not. Also give Michigan 3 weeks to answer the question of whether Stalions spied for Michigan at specific games. If there are legitimate questions, then give Michigan more time -- whatever is necessary. Personally, I think that is unlikely with 95% of a lot of sources whose credibility is at stake reporting the same thing.

2. In the event that Michigan is found guilty give it a substantial in season penalty in roughly 2 weeks after the 3 week deadline. If they have been cheating as a lot of circumstantial evidence shows the current players and coaches need to be penalized.

3. Would also mention the Paterno matter and incorrect jump to judgment there has little bearing here. Cases of child sexual abuse are fraught with complicated questions such as the accuracy of children's statements and the passage of time. The Michigan sign stealing situation is much clearer than the matter of which many have commented on here.

4. Also due process in the legal sense does not require extensive legalistic hearings. [And shouldn't be applicable anyway since the Big Ten is a private entity.] "Such hearing need not take the form of a judicial or quasi-judicial trial, but the recipient must be provided with timely and adequate notice detailing the reasons for termination, and an effective opportunity to defend by confronting adverse witnesses and by presenting his own arguments and evidence orally before the decisionmaker." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/397/254/ Just commenting as a background matter here because sometimes this is brought up incorrectly to support the idea that extensive hearings are required.

 

[psu00]

At 6:52 the commentators say that Central Michigan knew who was there.

Yep. They pretty much say CMU has to know and there’s no good reason they haven’t made a formal announcement about their investigation yet. Apparently there’s only 50 of these passes available and most go to coaches, trainers and other staff so the ‘at large’ passes should be easy to quickly track down.

Plus the CMU coach was at Michigan with Stalions. He’d recognize him on sight. He was coy in his statement saying Stalions name wasn’t on the list. No one followed up and said ‘You know Stalions. Is that him in the picture? Was he at the game?’.

I’m assuming the next CMU press conference he’ll get hit with that question and answer that he can’t comment on an open investigation as a cop out.

 

[bison13]

This cheating has been going on since possibly 2015?

View embedded media

if so then JH really sucked in his early years

 

[mcpat]

Soooo many things here. Tunnel fights. Alleged covid recruiting violations. Allegedly lying to NCAA about covid recruiting violations. Allegedly breaking into Ohio St servers. Allegedly having staff person on CMU sideline recording on smart sunglasses. Allegedly paying others to record on cell phones - 30 games per year.

I’m not going to pretend to know how much of this is true, but that’s a lot. I understand Michigan fans wanting due process, but some of them need to wake up from their “no big deal” dreams.

 

[Westcoast24]

Here is my suggestion as to how to have a quick and fair hearing and attempt to make sure that the current cheaters don't benefit from their cheating.

1. Have the Big Ten collect the documentary and computer evidence and give it to Michigan and ask whether it is valid. Giving Michigan about 3 weeks to reply as to whether it is authentic or not. Also give Michigan 3 weeks to answer the question of whether Stalions spied for Michigan at specific games. If there are legitimate questions, then give Michigan more time -- whatever is necessary. Personally, I think that is unlikely with 95% of a lot of sources whose credibility is at stake reporting the same thing.

2. In the event that Michigan is found guilty give it a substantial in season penalty in roughly 2 weeks after the 3 week deadline. If they have been cheating as a lot of circumstantial evidence shows the current players and coaches need to be penalized.

3. Would also mention the Paterno matter and incorrect jump to judgment there has little bearing here. Cases of child sexual abuse are fraught with complicated questions such as the accuracy of children's statements and the passage of time. The Michigan sign stealing situation is much clearer than the matter of which many have commented on here.

4. Also due process in the legal sense does not require extensive legalistic hearings. [And shouldn't be applicable anyway since the Big Ten is a private entity.] "Such hearing need not take the form of a judicial or quasi-judicial trial, but the recipient must be provided with timely and adequate notice detailing the reasons for termination, and an effective opportunity to defend by confronting adverse witnesses and by presenting his own arguments and evidence orally before the decisionmaker." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/397/254/ Just commenting as a background matter here because sometimes this is brought up incorrectly to support the idea that extensive hearings are required.

Couldn’t the big ten get most of that info from Ryan days brothers PI firm? I thought they had that info already

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

 

[The Spin Meister]

Here is my suggestion as to how to have a quick and fair hearing and attempt to make sure that the current cheaters don't benefit from their cheating.

1. Have the Big Ten collect the documentary and computer evidence and give it to Michigan and ask whether it is valid. Giving Michigan about 3 weeks to reply as to whether it is authentic or not. Also give Michigan 3 weeks to answer the question of whether Stalions spied for Michigan at specific games. If there are legitimate questions, then give Michigan more time -- whatever is necessary. Personally, I think that is unlikely with 95% of a lot of sources whose credibility is at stake reporting the same thing.

2. In the event that Michigan is found guilty give it a substantial in season penalty in roughly 2 weeks after the 3 week deadline. If they have been cheating as a lot of circumstantial evidence shows the current players and coaches need to be penalized.

3. Would also mention the Paterno matter and incorrect jump to judgment there has little bearing here. Cases of child sexual abuse are fraught with complicated questions such as the accuracy of children's statements and the passage of time. The Michigan sign stealing situation is much clearer than the matter of which many have commented on here.

4. Also due process in the legal sense does not require extensive legalistic hearings. [And shouldn't be applicable anyway since the Big Ten is a private entity.] "Such hearing need not take the form of a judicial or quasi-judicial trial, but the recipient must be provided with timely and adequate notice detailing the reasons for termination, and an effective opportunity to defend by confronting adverse witnesses and by presenting his own arguments and evidence orally before the decisionmaker." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/397/254/ Just commenting as a background matter here because sometimes this is brought up incorrectly to support the idea that extensive hearings are required.

#2……After five weeks there is no season left. That is probably even after the B2G chumpsionship game. The only thing left are playoffs/bowl games.

 

[GSPMax]

#2……After five weeks there is no season left. That is probably even after the B2G chumpsionship game. The only thing left are playoffs/bowl games.

The biggie championship game is 2 december. Let micheatum play out thru the championship and implement post season ban. It would give them something to squeal about for a long time.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The biggie championship game is 2 december. Let micheatum play out thru the championship and implement post season ban. It would give them something to squeal about for a long time.

Would much rather suspend Hairball and his two coordinators for the rest of the season today. And any other coach involved like the QB coach if strong evidence he participated. Let the kids play.

I wonder how many players knew what was going on. A few probably did and if they did ban them from bowl/
playoff games. And any one with eligibility left for next year losses it along with scholarships.