More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?

[fastlax16]

What are you talking about re: a lack of proof??? Are you aware that CMU's HC is a former scUM Assistant Coach? Are you aware that CMU's HC was working as a scUM AC when Stalions was hired onto the scUM Staff by Hairball (i.e., they worked together on the same scUM Staff)? Are you aware that they know each other and CMU's HC is lying when he says to the media that he has no idea who this person is standing on the sideline?

You have scUM poser-trolls on this Board saying CMU's Coach has nothing to gain from this which is nonsense - UM could have agreed to share Stalions huge catalog of work product with CMU's HC (again, a former scUM Assistant Coach hired by Hairball) if they ever had a future opponent in Stalions catalog. Hell, he Stalions may have been trying to feed CMU information he already had on MSU, while recording new in-game information for his catalog.

In any event, your insistence that there is no "evidence" that CMU was complicit here is nonsense.

I’m not insisting anything. I’m asking for actual proof of it and you still provided no evidence. So far they’ve said they have no idea how he got there and that he wasn’t on the list.

If they stick with that story that he wasn’t on the list and the NCAA can’t prove otherwise then what are you punishing them for?

Tons of connections between the coaching staffs but that’s not proof of complicity.

 

[LandoComando]

Flash back to 2012 -- had a school ever been punished for the crimes of a former football employee, where the crimes had nothing to do with football and did not involve student athletes, AND there was no NCAA investigation?

To be clear, I'm not comparing the two scenarios other than to say, there is a first time for everything and you saying "it's never happened before" is horrible logic because this type of cheating has never happened before.

No and that required us to ALLOW them to do so
If Michigan ALLOWS others to take action then you'll see it. If not, history shows it will takes months.
It's okay for you to be optimistic and hope something happens quickly. It's not okay for you to pretend that's realistic.

 

[PSU2UNC]

your offensive line is garbage, they are playing up to their talent level

PSU wins on Nov 11. Mark it down.

 

[PSU2UNC]

No and that required us to ALLOW them to do so
If Michigan ALLOWS others to take action then you'll see it. If not, history shows it will takes months.
It's okay for you to be optimistic and hope something happens quickly. It's not okay for you to pretend that's realistic.

It's ridiculous to pretend it is not realistic. The Big Ten can act quickly if they want to. There is really not reason (assuming they have the facts, which I believe they do) not to.

You saying "it's never happened before" is irrelevant because this situation has never come up before.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I’m not insisting anything. I’m asking for actual proof of it and you still provided no evidence. So far they’ve said they have no idea how he got there and that he wasn’t on the list.

If they stick with that story that he wasn’t on the list and the NCAA can’t prove otherwise then what are you punishing them for?

Tons of connections between the coaching staffs but that’s not proof of complicity.

Really? It's proof they're lying when they said they had no idea who he was (especially when there's video evidence of him on the sidelines directly interacting with CMU coaches). No evidence that CMU's Coaching Staff was complicit in Stalions being present on the sideline during the MSU game? Seriously? LMFAO.

 

[bono47]

I'm not disagreeing about the crossing route (2 PSU defenders collided. It was a fluke play. PSU should have won that game).

However, using draft picks as evidence that Michigan got better is a questionable line of reasoning. The NFL absolutely looks at film in addition to combine measurables. Those players would look better if they knew what play was coming, no? So the draft stock of any player from 2021 to now should be higher than it would have been without cheating.

That was going to be my point, along with Michigan's Rivals recruiting rankings not explaining the uptick in drafts.

 

[bluehair666]

lol, pathetic fan base...first, let's all do what the media says to do, big ten must step in...now, whiny anonymous coaches who are Michigan's direct competitors want immediate action..ncaa and big ten have written policies, time lines and rules as regards investigations and potential punishment..any deviation will result in litigation..Tom Mars is harbaugh's attorney, google him....he was such a thorn in the ncaa's side, they eventually hired him..also note, most of the leaks and hit pieces are coming from espn, who no longer has a vested interest in the big ten because they no longer have a contract with them...slap on the wrist, next year..harbaugh huge extension...you all, an entire offseason to cry and whine...maybe now at least you won't cry about the refs...

 

[bono47]

We all have video of the 2021 PSU<>UM game. There was no pick. It was not even an intentional rub. It was a basic crossing route play. Freeze the frame and there is at least five yards of distance between the two receivers. One or both of the PSU defenders did a fubar. If this requires 1st grade comprehension, show the RPS that Michigan players were always in right position. If you want to pick out a play, show how Michigan had the jump. That crossing route was not one of them.

Did you consider that perhaps Harbaugh upgraded the talent on the team. His first 6 draft classes produced 7 players taken in the 1st/2nd round. Last two years there have 6. There are supposedly 16 UM players who are projected who will be drafted. This includes the Heisman trophy front runner. Does sign stealing suddenly generate NFL talent? The NFL is measuring on how fast a player is, how many times they succeed at their task, not whether they are in the right place at the right time. There will probably be four or five UM players drafted in the 1st/2nd rounds. Perhaps not Georgia/OSU level. But that is way above the belt of what UM usually does.

The problem is, we do not know how Michigan's knowledge on that play affected its result.

Michigan didn't upgrade with talent. Look at Rivals recruiting scores. Booger did nothing different the last 3 years. Maybe more dudes got drafted cos they appeared to be better than they are based on knowing the plays coming to them. Again, we do not know now. That is the entire problem with this scandal.

Booger didn't wake up and have and epiphany which explains the statistical outliers with his performance. Moreover, he is lying about not knowing who this guy is.

Continue to live in denial but it is so simple and obvious what took place.

 

[bono47]

lol, pathetic fan base...first, let's all do what the media says to do, big ten must step in...now, whiny anonymous coaches who are Michigan's direct competitors want immediate action..ncaa and big ten have written policies, time lines and rules as regards investigations and potential punishment..any deviation will result in litigation..Tom Mars is harbaugh's attorney, google him....he was such a thorn in the ncaa's side, they eventually hired him..also note, most of the leaks and hit pieces are coming from espn, who no longer has a vested interest in the big ten because they no longer have a contract with them...slap on the wrist, next year..harbaugh huge extension...you all, an entire offseason to cry and whine...maybe now at least you won't cry about the refs...

Why are you here trying to win the hearts and minds of people on this board? I'm guessing it bothers you that the pride you got living vicariously through Michigan is shaken by the complete lack of respect and invalidity that has come along with this scandal. You will always have 1997÷2. Lol.

 

[fastlax16]

Really? It's proof they're lying when they said they had no idea who he was (especially when there's video evidence of him on the sidelines directly interacting with CMU coaches). No evidence that CMU's Coaching Staff was complicit in Stalions being present on the sideline during the MSU game? Seriously? LMFAO.

I think they knew who he was but none of what you said is actual proof.

 

[bluehair666]

Why are you here trying to win the hearts and minds of people on this board? I'm guessing it bothers you that the pride you got living vicariously through Michigan is shaken by the complete lack of respect and invalidity that has come along with this scandal. You will always have 1997÷2. Lol.

actually just stunned by how stupid some of you are....seeking draconian penalties based on rumor, leaks and clickbait...kinda like cancel culture..you seem rational, but feel free to cope and cry if you like, starting on 11-11 around 330pm

 

[bono47]

actually just stunned by how stupid some of you are....seeking draconian penalties based on rumor, leaks and clickbait...kinda like cancel culture..you seem rational, but feel free to cope and cry if you like, starting on 11-11 around 330pm

I don't cry or cope over college football played by 19 year olds. I also don't go to other team boards to defend some false sense of honor that comes with being a grown man living through other people's success. I follow PSU cos I grew up with it and went to school there, no more no less.

If you took your fanboy goggles off, you would see the trouble Michigan is in. At the core, sports are supposed to be played square. Sure, there are games within the game, but this is something at an entirely different level and deep down Michigan fans know it. Denial comes before acceptance.

The biggest thing to me in all of this is just smelling bullshit. When something is too good to be true, it usually is. In retrospect, Michigan's 3 year magical turnaround smells of bullshit, I mean the bullshit meter is off the charts on this.

 

[djm_psu_alum]

While I know we only know what has been tweeted and reported, I do believe this was significant operation, it is cheating, and it had an impact on games. I don't believe ESPN has been pushing this story because the conference is now longer a television partner. Do people honestly think reporters at ESPN were told to dig deep into these stories because we need to kneecap the B10? That reeks of tin hat wearing conspiracy promoters. Others, like the Athletic and local news outlets are reporting on it just as ESPN is.

At the same time, I don't believe for a second that Michigan will be punished in-season, punished at all, and if they are, the punishment will match the crime.

My question, which I haven't seen asked, is if the sign-stealing that Stalions coordinated was so good and resulted in a turn around from the blah 2020 season to the 2021-22, one-loss regular season, why was he being paid so poorly? I've read he was being paid $50K range. If you are coordinating such a successful operation with such a great turnaround on the field, shouldn't you be better compensated?

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I think they knew who he was but none of what you said is actual proof.

They don't need definitive proof - it's judged on the weight of the evidence. You keep moving the goalposts.... first you said CMU violated no rule even if they invited Stalions onto the sidelines.... That simply is not true as they would be aiding, and abetting, a clear Rules Violation.

Rules Violations are judged on the weight of the evidence and there is a ton of HARD EVIDENCE that CMU knew Stalions was on their sideline disguised in CMU garb (not just generic garb) and CMU was responsible for him being there which is illegal (and they know it's illegal) as scUM would be playing MSU later in the year and Stalions being there constitutes "in-person advance scouting" as specifically forbidden in the NCAA Rulebook (claiming the CMU HC doesn't know the NCAA Rulebook would not get him off the hook - he's required to know the NCAA Rulebook by NCAA Rule).

 

[Psubiomed]

PSU wins on Nov 11. Mark it down.

Agreed actually. And I can't wait to watch the blue hair literally vanish into thin air right in front of our eyes at 4pm eastern on November 11.

 

[fastlax16]

They don't need definitive proof - it's judged on the weight of the evidence. You keep moving the goalposts.... first you said CMU violated no rule even if they invited Stalions onto the sidelines.... That simply is not true as they would be aiding, and abetting, a clear Rules Violation.

Rules Violations are judged on the weight of the evidence and there is a ton of HARD EVIDENCE that CMU knew Stalions was on their sideline disguised in CMU garb (not just generic garb) and CMU was responsible for him being there which is illegal (and they know it's illegal) as scUM would be playing MSU later in the year and Stalions being there constitutes "in-person advance scouting" as specifically forbidden in the NCAA Rulebook (claiming the CMU HC doesn't know the NCAA Rulebook would not get him off the hook - he's required to know the NCAA Rulebook by NCAA Rule).

I said inviting him in and of itself wasn’t a violation of any rules, which it doesn’t appear to be.

There’s a ton of evidence he was there, that evidence doesn’t definitely prove anything re: CMU’s, or McElwains, complicity.

I think it’s most likely he knew a lower level staffer well, or someone who was able to get their name on the list who picked up the pass for him. Or that he got a different type of sideline pass and created a doctored one to look like the one he needed to get behind the bench since he knew what the passes looked like. All of that is possible without some big conspiracy involving McElwain.

 

[lazydave841]

Pretending there aren't potential legal ramifications if the Big Ten acts without a complete investigation is false. Michigan has a ton of options if sanctioned in any way.

What legal ramifications exist? I don't honestly know. Has a team ever sued and won? What are Michigan's options?

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I said inviting him in and of itself wasn’t a violation of any rules, which it doesn’t appear to be.

There’s a ton of evidence he was there, that evidence doesn’t definitely prove anything re: CMU’s, or McElwains, complicity.

It does violate a rule - you claiming it doesn't, does not make it so. Mcelwain is REQUIRED to know the NCAA Rulebook as an NCAA HC - he knows that scUM plays MSU later in the season (again, he's a former scUM Coach) and knows participating in a scheme to place Stalions on CMU's sideline is a clear violation of the "advanced in-person scouting" rule. He is complicit in the violation at that point - you saying he is violating no rule by participating in putting Stalions on his sideline is beyond ridiculous and shows a fundamental lack of understanding what the NCAA Rulebook says about "Institutional Control" responsibilities and the responsibilities of maintaining integrity in regards to "Sportsmanship".

 

[fastlax16]

What legal ramifications exist? I don't honestly know. Has a team ever sued and won? What are Michigan's options?

Do you think Michigan is going to want to open themselves up to discovery by suing the big ten?

 

[LandoComando]

It's ridiculous to pretend it is not realistic. The Big Ten can act quickly if they want to. There is really not reason (assuming they have the facts, which I believe they do) not to.

You saying "it's never happened before" is irrelevant because this situation has never come up before.

You're literally pretending that so you can be mad when they don't because you're not stupid. You know it's highly unlikely.

 

[fastlax16]

It does violate a rule - you claiming it doesn't, does not make it so. Mcelwain is REQUIRED to know the NCAA Rulebook as an NCAA HC - he knows that scUM plays MSU later in the season (again, he's a former scUM Coach) and knows participating in a scheme to place Stalions on CMU's sideline is a clear violation of the "advanced in-person scouting" rule. He is complicit in the violation at that point - you saying he is violating no rule by participating in putting Stalions on his sideline is beyond ridiculous and shows a fundamental lack of understanding what the NCAA Rulebook says about "Institutional Control" responsibilities and the responsibilities of maintaining integrity in regards to "Sportsmanship".

You have no proof he participated or knew. It’s so far below his pay grade to run through the list of everyone getting a field pass it’s not even funny.

Do you think Franklin personally vets every single person on a weekly basis? There’s an associate AD doing that.

You sound like everyone who said Joe knew Jerry was raping kids in the showers.

 

[LandoComando]

What legal ramifications exist? I don't honestly know. Has a team ever sued and won? What are Michigan's options?

Wasn't Penn State going to sue the NCAA and that's why our sanctions were reduced and the vacated wins restored?
If Michigan doesn't agree to the sanctions issued by the Big Ten they have all courses of action open to them and they probably have a team of attorneys well versed and prepared to handle that. Truthfully, I haven't researched it enough to know exactly what course of action they'd have available to them.
I don't think the Big Ten wants to do anything honestly

 

[fastlax16]

What was the penalty for Bobby Petrino when one of his assistants got caught up in the Wakey Leaks scandal? 25k fine for the school and that was it?

 

[lazydave841]

Do you think Michigan is going to want to open themselves up to discovery by suing the big ten?

Good question. I don't know.

Wasn't Penn State going to sue the NCAA and that's why our sanctions were reduced and the vacated wins restored?
If Michigan doesn't agree to the sanctions issued by the Big Ten they have all courses of action open to them and they probably have a team of attorneys well versed and prepared to handle that. Truthfully, I haven't researched it enough to know exactly what course of action they'd have available to them.
I don't think the Big Ten wants to do anything honestly

I don't know if PSU was going to sue. I keep reading from you that we welcomed the sanctions, hence why we were punished. Why would we allow it and then sue? What sense does that make?

Michigan can sue a ham sandwich, but that doesn't mean they will get anything from it. If they are deemed guilty, they have very little recourse. Unprecedented means no punishment is stated or on file, right? What can they argue if they are guilty? And what can they argue if the severity is dismissed?

 

[Psubiomed]

Good question. I don't know.



I don't know if PSU was going to sue. I keep reading from you that we welcomed the sanctions, hence why we were punished. Why would we allow it and then sue? What sense does that make?

Michigan can sue a ham sandwich, but that doesn't mean they will get anything from it. If they are deemed guilty, they have very little recourse. Unprecedented means no punishment is stated or on file, right? What can they argue if they are guilty? And what can they argue if the severity is dismissed?

😂 Dude the way to respond to Lando is consult UNC. A lot can be learned from the daily beat downs he issues to the Michigan man Lando

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

You have no proof he participated or knew. It’s so far below his pay grade to run through the list of everyone getting a field pass it’s not even funny.

Do you think Franklin personally vets every single person on a weekly basis? There’s an associate AD doing that.

You sound like everyone who said Joe knew Jerry was raping kids in the .

Here we go again with you shifting positions and moving the goalposts.... You just said it violated no rules even if McElwain invited Stalions onto the sideline. That is patently FALSE and absolutely would make him complicit in a clear NCAA Rules Violation. Now you're claiming he didn't know he was invited despite the fact he is required to know an EXTREMELY SERIOUS NCAA VIOLATION, which constitutes blatant cheating and a violation of Sportsmanship clauses, via the "Institutional Control" clause.

You said no rule would have been violated by CMU inviting, and assisting, Stalions to be on their sidelines. That is simply patently false.

 

[LandoComando]

Good question. I don't know.



I don't know if PSU was going to sue. I keep reading from you that we welcomed the sanctions, hence why we were punished. Why would we allow it and then sue? What sense does that make?

Michigan can sue a ham sandwich, but that doesn't mean they will get anything from it. If they are deemed guilty, they have very little recourse. Unprecedented means no punishment is stated or on file, right? What can they argue if they are guilty? And what can they argue if the severity is dismissed?

They could claim they were coerced to sign it though I don't believe it but it would have been hard for the NCAA to prove they didn't given everything that happened.
They can make a ton of different arguments. They'd likely start with the Big Ten doesn't have the authority to act while an investigation is ongoing with the NCAA for starters--would they win that? I don't know but I don't think the Big Ten wants to find out of have one of their major programs angry.
I still this is what ends college football as we know it. I think the NCAA and Big Ten will be hesitant to do much of anything, Could be wrong but I think they play this very safe.

 

[LandoComando]

😂 Dude the way to respond to Lando is consult UNC. A lot can be learned from the daily beat downs he issues to the Michigan man Lando

UNC in no way is doing that. He's just emotional invested in this and has even resorted to trying to claim I'm a Michigan fan when I fully support the investigation and Spin's suggestion that the coaches should be suspended during the investigation. That make perfect sense and is realistic.

 

[fastlax16]

Here we go again with you shifting positions and moving the goalposts.... You just said it violated no rules even if McElwain invited Stalions onto the sideline. That is patently FALSE and absolutely would make him complicit in a clear NCAA Rules Violation. Now you're claiming he didn't know he was invited despite the fact he is required to know an EXTREMELY SERIOUS NCAA VIOLATION, which constitutes blatant cheating and a violation of Sportsmanship clauses, via the "Institutional Control" clause.

You said no rule would have been violated by CMU inviting, and assisting, Stalions to be on their sidelines. That is simply patently false.

There’s no apparent rule against inviting someone from another staff, because prior to this it would seem ridiculous, but still it’s not forbidden.

Advanced scouting rules apply to the team you work for. CMU wasn’t advanced scouting anyone and the rules aren’t written to cover this weird scenario. If you want to argue there are morality or sportsmanship rules CMU violated fine that’s reasonable. You still havent provided any evidence he had a legit field pass and not a fake one he created to sneak on after buying a ticket or acquiring some other form of credential.

I also never said McElwain was the one that invited him.

 

[Psubiomed]

UNC in no way is doing that. He's just emotional invested in this and has even resorted to trying to claim I'm a Michigan fan when I fully support the investigation and Spin's suggestion that the coaches should be suspended during the investigation. That make perfect sense and is realistic.

You are a troll and he owns u. Not one single person on here respects you a$$hole. Now go back to your little cubby hole you came from. I thought it was downright hilarious when you completely vanished from the board after TCU won last year 😂

What dorm was that again dude? U a Penn State grad right? Who were your profs? What major again? What buildings were your courses again?

😂

 

[LandoComando]

You are a troll and he owns u. Not one single person on here respects you a$$hole. Now go back to your little cubby hole you came from. I thought it was downright hilarious when you completely vanished from the board after TCU won last year 😂

What dorm was that again dude? U a Penn State grad right? Who were your profs? What major again? What buildings were your courses again?

😂

So I'm not on ignore.
I don't care if you or anyone respects me or not. Not trolling and most know it.
When I did vanish after TCU won last year? I discussed the title game here. What are you talking about
I don't continue to answer your questions because you ignore it or claim I "looked it up"
If you want to call me an asshole say asshole.

 

[Psubiomed]

So I'm not on ignore.
I don't care if you or anyone respects me or not. Not trolling and most know it.
When I did vanish after TCU won last year? I discussed the title game here. What are you talking about
I don't continue to answer your questions because you ignore it or claim I "looked it up"
If you want to call me an asshole say asshole.

I love how I get under your skin. Fake

 

[LandoComando]

I love how I get under your skin. Fake

You don't bother me at all. If you did I'd ignore you. I'm just not a child throwing a temper tantrum 24-7 like you do.
I mean, you literally just lied about me leaving after Michigan lost to TCU. I was rooting for Georgia to win it all last year. Kirby Smart is the best coach in the nation. I don't root for underdogs. I want the bet to win as they've earned it.
To point out how stupid you are

Georgia/TCU

Huge stand there by TCU to hold Georgia to 3 and keep it a 10 point game. This could get away from TCU very fast if they don't put together a drive here.

pennstate.forums.rivals.com

Started the thread lol

 

[Psubiomed]

You don't bother me at all. If you did I'd ignore you. I'm just not a child throwing a temper tantrum 24-7 like you do.
I mean, you literally just lied about me leaving after Michigan lost to TCU. I was rooting for Georgia to win it all last year. Kirby Smart is the best coach in the nation. I don't root for underdogs. I want the bet to win as they've earned it.
To point out how stupid you are

Georgia/TCU

Huge stand there by TCU to hold Georgia to 3 and keep it a 10 point game. This could get away from TCU very fast if they don't put together a drive here.

pennstate.forums.rivals.com

Started the thread lol

Fake.

 

[LandoComando]

Fake.

Yes you are

 

[bluehair666]

Agreed actually. And I can't wait to watch the blue hair literally vanish into thin air right in front of our eyes at 4pm eastern on November 11.

just try not to poop your pants on saturday, would suck if psu was out of the top 20 when they get thumped by Michigan

 

[bluehair666]

What legal ramifications exist? I don't honestly know. Has a team ever sued and won? What are Michigan's options?

Tom Mars has owned the ncaa in court, and he happens to be harbaugh's attorney..first step would be to find a friendly judge, probably a UM grad, and have an injunction issued..that would go into effect immediately and legally restrain the big ten from handing out any penalty without due process..yes, belonging to the big ten is voluntary, but an institution and it's employees and students don't lose basic legal rights by joining..

 

[PennStateNation]

Michigan Fires Staff Member After 'Disturbing' Video Emerges https://athlonsports.com/college-fo...isturbing-video-emerges-underage-solicitation via @athlonsports

 

[SLion]

just try not to poop your pants on saturday, would suck if psu was out of the top 20 when they get thumped by Michigan

Who is the new Littlefinger whispering in Jim's ear for rest of season? He needs the cheat codes, baby. Try Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start. I hear a new analyst was hired. His name is Donald Ralions. He will be wearing wig, hat and sunglasses but there will be no evidence that he is a previous fanboy staff member nor that rules were broken

 

[bison13]

Michigan Fires Staff Member After 'Disturbing' Video Emerges https://athlonsports.com/college-fo...isturbing-video-emerges-underage-solicitation via @athlonsports

Wow Michigan football is just flaming pile of dog feces