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NATO

pish69

pish69

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2016
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NJ--The Shore
Tom Ryan announced on Steelwood radio that NATO will take mat against Maryland on Friday but he will sit out vs Suriano on Sunday

Typical.

I like some of the tOSU wrestlers but I cannot stand how Ryan constantly ruins duals by sitting guys in the premier matches
 
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Nato is not afraid of competition, we know this.

So, if this is the case and he essentially ducks Suriano.....My guess is the cut is not going well and he couldnt sustain it yet over the 3 days and be competitive.

Problem for march??
 
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dunkej01 said:
Nato is not afraid of competition, we know this.

So, if this is the case and he essentially ducks Suriano.....My guess is the cut is not going well and he couldnt sustain it yet over the 3 days and be competitive.

Problem for march??
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Make no mistake about it. I love NATO and the way he competes. This isn’t about NATO. It’s about Ryan and how this has become his MO. Anytime there a big match you can bet someone sits (not on the wrestler)

Not good for the sport and I can promise if Cael did this junk over the years I would not be a fan no matter how much I love the wrestlers
 
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El-Jefe said:
This is absolutely seed protection -- and about as blatant as it gets.

Otherwise, if weight mgmt were the issue, sit vs. Maryland and go vs. Rutgers.
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Also shows that Ryan could care less about the dual. They do not need Tomasello to beat Maryland, Suriano sticks the Ohio State back up and Rutgers wrestles really well with an upset or two, that could be an interesting dual.
 
Sounds so similar to the Cavs playing Isiah Thomas last night and sitting him against the Celtics tonight.. major disappointment
 
pish69 said:
Tom Ryan announced on Steelwood radio that NATO will take mat against Maryland on Friday but he will sit out vs Suriano on Sunday

Typical.

I like some of the tOSU wrestlers but I cannot stand how Ryan constantly ruins duals by sitting guys in the premier matches
Click to expand...

Ducking opponents should count against you when seeding for the Big 10 and NCAA tournaments.
 
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Sullivan said:
Ducking opponents should count against you when seeding for the Big 10 and NCAA tournaments.
Click to expand...


I dont know how they could do it but would love it if they did. Some sort of opportunity factor that gives credit to wrestling quality opponenets even if you lose.
 
There's only one thing to say to Tan Tom when he pulls this nonsense:

"You're killing our sport"

--Cael Sanderson
 
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Maybe NATO will duck the top 125 lbers, maybe even the Big10 and guarantee the #1 seed
goethe14 said:
I dont know how they could do it but would love it if they did. Some sort of opportunity factor that gives credit to wrestling quality opponenets even if you lose.
Click to expand...

Like in college football, they could weigh seeding more towards strength of schedule rather than last years results/reputation. Might be difficult but something to think about
 
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JohnnyHandsome said:
... Like in college football, they could weigh seeding more towards strength of schedule rather than last years results/reputation. Might be difficult but something to think about
Click to expand...
Just institute a “Tom Ryan Smell Test” for ranking/seeding. A wrestler who stinks up the test gets penalized in ranking/seeding. It can be subjective.
 
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A big emphasis of the seeding should be based upon who you beat. Do that, problem solved.
 
tOSU has only 8 duals between here and B1Gs; assuming Ryan ducks Suriano, Lee, and Lizak, NaTo would be coming into B1Gs with a 5-0 record.

If NaTo ducks everyone and Suriano is undefeated going into B1Gs (both somewhat likely variables at this point), I would think Suriano would get the one seed over NaTo's 5-0 record. Which would likely leave NaTo and Lee on the bottom of the bracket (assuming Lee also goes undefeated--he's scheduled to face Lizak, Piccininni, Sebastian Rivera (who gave Suriano a tough time at Midlands)), an ideal scenario for Penn State.
 
It really makes you consider the difference in coaching philosophy. Cael wants his kids wrestling the tough competition all season. He knows that, win or lose, the wrestlers will learn more about their big opponents wrestling them than ducking them. Look at how Cenzo improved in his matches against IMar. Ryan, on the other hand, is more concerned about seed than the opportunity to grow and improve.
 
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For someone who is advocating for a separate dual championship, Ryan treats a lot of his team duals with relative little importance. It is a shame for the wrestlers. But, I would imagine if NATO said he wanted to wrestle then he would. I would not place all the blame on Ryan, I would assume NATO can wrestle if he wanted to.
 
Lyons212 said:
Also shows that Ryan could care less about the dual. They do not need Tomasello to beat Maryland, Suriano sticks the Ohio State back up and Rutgers wrestles really well with an upset or two, that could be an interesting dual.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Rutgers under Goodale has a habit of shitting the bed in "big" duals. When they wrestled Lehigh in the first wrestling match at the RAC, they came out as flat as any team I've ever seen and got steamrolled. The Iowa match back in December was another they should have won and wrestled poorly. I have no confidence in Rutgers stepping up on Sunday.
 
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PSUer1989 said:
It really makes you consider the difference in coaching philosophy. Cael wants his kids wrestling the tough competition all season. He knows that, win or lose, the wrestlers will learn more about their big opponents wrestling them than ducking them. Look at how Cenzo improved in his matches against IMar. Ryan, on the other hand, is more concerned about seed than the opportunity to grow and improve.
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The best scouting report is from the match where your guy wrestles their guy. The matches in mid-March are the ones that really count, all the others are essentially dress rehearsals.
 
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Ryan: makes dual meaningless, then points, and says, see, duals are meaningless....

I will give him one pass on this one, as Nato may need to ramp up a bit after sitting out so long, but if he does it against Lee (which seems likely)....

I feel like one interesting way to change the sport would be to weight seeding (in part) by team points scored in duals. But maybe that's loco.
 
matter7172 said:
Unfortunately, Rutgers under Goodale has a habit of shitting the bed in "big" duals. When they wrestled Lehigh in the first wrestling match at the RAC, they came out as flat as any team I've ever seen and got steamrolled. The Iowa match back in December was another they should have won and wrestled poorly. I have no confidence in Rutgers stepping up on Sunday.
Click to expand...

Couldnt agree more and I root for Rutgers.. In general, they also seem to lack the killer instinct you see in top Big10 teams in the 3rd period. Even Nick looked defensive this weekend against both Rivera & Bresser
 
I'll take an alternate view...given the little I know about Tomasello's injury, weight cut, etc., I'm not going to pass judgment.

Having said that, there are systems in place to affect a guys seed at NCAA's, and they should be used. For example, RPI is a measure of "strength of schedule", and has been used to affect seeding in the past...most definitely it should be used for any wrestler that competes irregularly. If the shoe fits for Tomasello, so be it, and that's not making it personal...it's the way it should be for any wrestler.
 
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nerfstate said:
Ryan: makes dual meaningless, then points, and says, see, duals are meaningless....

I will give him one pass on this one, as Nato may need to ramp up a bit after sitting out so long, but if he does it against Lee (which seems likely)....

I feel like one interesting way to change the sport would be to weight seeding (in part) by team points scored in duals. But maybe that's loco.
Click to expand...

If he wrestles Lee all will be forgiven, but if he sits him I'll change my opinion. It sucks for wrestling fans that we don't get to see them go at it, but hopefully we get to see him and Lee at the end of January.
 
rmg78 said:
I would imagine if NATO said he wanted to wrestle then he would. I would not place all the blame on Ryan, I would assume NATO can wrestle if he wanted to.
Click to expand...
Ryan is still the head coach, right?

But let's play along anyway. If this is true, how many of Ryan's recruits don't want to face good competition?
 
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Grass said:
If he wrestles Lee all will be forgiven, but if he sits him I'll change my opinion. It sucks for wrestling fans that we don't get to see them go at it, but hopefully we get to see him and Lee at the end of January.
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Is all forgiven if Ryan ducks both Suriano and Lizak first?
 
Sullivan said:
Ducking opponents should count against you when seeding for the Big 10 and NCAA tournaments.
Click to expand...

The really sad part is that undefeated (officially) this year returning champ Mark Hall lost a ranking position over a loss in an exhibition match that wasn't supposed to count.

You penalize a guy for going out there in an exhibition match to challenge himself and entertain fans. Then tOSU gets away with protecting ranking by not competing.
 
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RoarLions1 said:
I'll take an alternate view...given the little I know about Tomasello's injury, weight cut, etc., I'm not going to pass judgment.

Having said that, there are systems in place to affect a guys seed at NCAA's, and they should be used. For example, RPI is a measure of "strength of schedule", and has been used to affect seeding in the past...most definitely it should be used for any wrestler that competes irregularly. If the shoe fits for Tomasello, so be it, and that's not making it personal...it's the way it should be for any wrestler.
Click to expand...
A possibly relevant and recent precedent is Kyle Snyder coming into the B1Gs with only a 3-0 record in 2016 (he was originally taking a Oly redshirt). Snyder was given the #2 B1G seed, under Coon (15-1) but ahead of Sam Stoll (20-3). I can't imagine NaTo would be given even more deference than Snyder, perhaps even less. I think if Ryan wants to get NaTo the 1 seed at B1Gs, he's gotta roll him out against Lee, Piccininni, Rivera so his RPI is meaningful.
 
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tikk10 said:
A possibly relevant and recent precedent is Kyle Snyder coming into the B1Gs with only a 3-0 record in 2016 (he was originally taking a Oly redshirt). Snyder was given the #2 B1G seed, under Coon (15-1) but ahead of Sam Stoll (20-3). I can't imagine NaTo would be given even more deference than Snyder, perhaps even less. I think if Ryan wants to get NaTo the 1 seed at B1Gs, he's gotta roll him out against Lee, Piccininni, Rivera so his RPI is meaningful.
Click to expand...
I don't think #1 seed at B10s is important to Ryan. Top 2 is enough, if Ryan wants to avoid a quarters match vs. Welch or Rivera (thus be fresh for the semis and finals).

IMO the goal is #1 seed at nationals. And he may well get it if he's the undefeated B10 champ even if he misses Suriano, Lizak, and Lee in the duals -- he'd have to beat 2 of them at B10s, and Cruz's schedule is weak (only Millhof, Hayes, Schwarm, Mattin, Moody ranked), plus the exhibition loss to Piccinnini.

One correction: Lee faces Piccinnini in duals this year. Tomasello doesn't but could face Fausz on 2/18.
 
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RVARZR said:
The really sad part is that undefeated (officially) this year returning champ Mark Hall lost a ranking position over a loss in an exhibition match that wasn't supposed to count.

You penalize a guy for going out there in an exhibition match to challenge himself and entertain fans. Then tOSU gets away with protecting ranking by not competing.
Click to expand...

This brings up a good point that I’ve been meaning to ask about, sorry if it’s already been covered...

If Mark and Zahid both finish through their conference tournaments with undefeated “official” records, would Mark still be the 1 seed at NCAAs as he has the last “official” win over Zahid? My understanding is that the All Star match effected Marks ranking but shouldn’t have any bearing on his seeding, correct?
 
RVARZR said:
The really sad part is that undefeated (officially) this year returning champ Mark Hall lost a ranking position over a loss in an exhibition match that wasn't supposed to count.

You penalize a guy for going out there in an exhibition match to challenge himself and entertain fans. Then tOSU gets away with protecting ranking by not competing.
Click to expand...

Great point but this is yet to be seen. Yes Hall is ranked 2 in most publications but that is not seeding.

If Hall and Zahid both make it to NCAAs undefeated and they give 1 seed to Zahid then that’s total BS and if I were Cael, I’d never send a guy to all star event again
 
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