This is likely the worst unintended consequence.
NCAA Rules changes coming!!
- Thread starter WexfordWarrior
- Start date
I like the 3 point takedown, feel it was undervalued, especially when you consider escape points.
Would have liked to see a reversal changed to 3 points as well. Feel that is also undervalued and it is usually an exciting type move.
Eliminating the riding time point without a turn doesn't do much, imo. Still an incentive to ride when ahead, maybe even more so since they won't have the additional point cushion.
Would have liked to see a reversal changed to 3 points as well. Feel that is also undervalued and it is usually an exciting type move.
Eliminating the riding time point without a turn doesn't do much, imo. Still an incentive to ride when ahead, maybe even more so since they won't have the additional point cushion.
Speaking of the standing rear position, my wife....
Oh sorry. Wrong forum. Carry on.
Some of these are good, like bringing back 3 point near fall and eliminating hand-touch takedowns. The latter were always dumb because folkstyle is supposed to be about control more than other styles.
The mandatory five-second count change is stupid. I've always hated that rule anyway. I don't know this can be read as anything other than punishing the bow and arrows. The way to stop stalling in a ride is to CALL STALLING, not invent new rules like the recent five-count one anyway.
As for 3 point takedowns, yeah, no. Very hard no. I'm with Nolf on that one.
In general, these are some poorly considered rule changes making college wrestling closer to being a weird, misfit hybrid of folk and freestyle.
The mandatory five-second count change is stupid. I've always hated that rule anyway. I don't know this can be read as anything other than punishing the bow and arrows. The way to stop stalling in a ride is to CALL STALLING, not invent new rules like the recent five-count one anyway.
As for 3 point takedowns, yeah, no. Very hard no. I'm with Nolf on that one.
In general, these are some poorly considered rule changes making college wrestling closer to being a weird, misfit hybrid of folk and freestyle.
Someone should remind the rules committee they forgot to implement the rule “reviews should be decided within 30 seconds” to maintain the integrity of the match and reward the better conditioned wrestler.
Also a good way to value takedowns properly is by not giving your opponent an escape.
Between the constant revisions to rules/scoring, the rise of showboating on the mat, and the adoption of free agency and bag deals, I feel like NCAA wrestling is finally passing me by. A change to 3-pt TDs would be a tough pill to swallow.
I absolutely hate that a 3 point takedown is being considered. Hate hate hate it.
All the 3 point TD does is end matches sooner for no reason and help guys who can’t/won’t turn. Also it’ll encourage even more 1-takedown matches as guys stall out a 2-point lead
Don't like the 3 point takedown, unless it's strictly for the first TD. Then maybe.
I don't like the video review change. Reviews already are way too long. Allowing the ref to look for additional corrections will prolong them further
I'm fine with giving the others a chance. Wish they would use opens or extra matches for trial runs. Especially extra matches, so coaches see how the changes work. Unless I'm wrong, I didn't think most of the coaches travel to the opens.
I don't like the video review change. Reviews already are way too long. Allowing the ref to look for additional corrections will prolong them further
I'm fine with giving the others a chance. Wish they would use opens or extra matches for trial runs. Especially extra matches, so coaches see how the changes work. Unless I'm wrong, I didn't think most of the coaches travel to the opens.
Apparently the rules committee ran out of patience after waiting several decades for the refs to call stalling.
Going to have to change TF at 15. They'll be a lot more tech falls with catch and release.
6 TD to 0 could end 18-3. That just doesn’t seem right to me. That’s a beat down but is it *that* level of dominant?
No, put the scale at the scorers table and have weigh-in right before stepping on the mat. That would control cutting weight.
As a side note, I would have won a lot more matches in HS since I never cut at all. I would have loved weigh-ins at the mat.
Do we have any reason to believe that weight cutting as it is currently constructed in college is that much of an issue?
Almost every school (looking at you, John) has finally caught on to the fact that big cuts hurt performance.
Almost every school (looking at you, John) has finally caught on to the fact that big cuts hurt performance.
If they want to eliminate the stall ride, just place the wrestlers back at neutral with zero escape point awarded after 30 seconds of riding with no turn.
Bingo.
Furthermore, God forbid we reward those guys who can still be a threat on bottom.
Yup.
This feels like Freestyle (ok, fine) minus step outs and shot clocks. Subsequently we’ll get:
More techs/fast matches
No one ever up by 4-10 having any reason to ever engage
Lots more matches that were previously 2 point matches going into the 3rd being multiple TD leads now
I like the idea of the 1st takedown being 3 points in the 1st period only. The other thing could be a free release after the initial takedown. Starting a match 3-0 should generate more action in the 1st.
However, I think there is equal merit in the opposite view — taking a risk and being down 3-0 is actually a deterrent to engage in the 1st.
Changing the point values is not as much of an incentive to create action as might be a more draconian ruleset for calling and penalizing stalling.
I just posted the following elsewhere in response to a post calling for automatic double-stall calls if the 1st period goes scoreless:
I’d go a step further and say auto-double-stall if no TD has been secured in the first 2:00. Then another if still no TD by the end of the period. Mathematically, no first period will go scoreless again, and guys won’t be eating up the first 3 minutes of a match dancing while gazing into one another’s eyes, tying-while-blocking, taking breaks to jog in place/shufflestep, etc. . . .
Simultaneously, make stall penalties warning - 1 pt - 2 pt - 2 pt - DQ.
The above should light fires under butts.
I don't think three point takedowns will really create more action. I like the stall ride and riding point rules, but a three point takedown will encourage wrestlers to score in the first and then shut down right after. I feel like it will lead to many wrestlers who lack confidence to be even more conservative; Imagine Lewan or Matthews (guys with really good defense that never shoot) if they know they go down 3-0 if they give up a takedown
Agree with the double stall calls and change of stall points, IF they actually start calling it. Basically comes down to referees having the intestinal fortitude to make the call. Jus my two cents…
Yup, and I hear the response being, "Well with a 3 point TD, a Lewan knows the value now and will take a chance early to get it". Okay, assume he does come out more aggressive and does get one, then gives up an escape. 3-1 after 1, his favor.
Let's play this out. With an opponent getting 3 for a TD and Lewan knowing he only gets 1 for escape, why on Earth would he ever engage the rest of the match? Might say, correctly, that he doesn't now either.
But this rule change doesn't fix the issue. Now if you add a step out or liberally called stalling, ok. But we all know that's not going to happen. In a one point match, the guy winning will get a single stall. In a 2 point match, he will get 2 stalls and bring it to 1 point win.
If refs would start hitting guys like Lewan and Matthews with stalling, they wouldn't be so defensive minded. Once again, it comes down to enforcing existing rules. And few refs seem willing to call it.
Still better than 1 TD to a leg lace followed by 4 turns in free.
Agreed the 3 point TD works especially well, IMO, when combined with making calling stalling a point of emphasis for refs.
Mo rules mo problems..
Get rid of the riding time point if you don't have an offensive point.. Enforce the stalling rules that we have and most of this goes away..
Get rid of the riding time point if you don't have an offensive point.. Enforce the stalling rules that we have and most of this goes away..
We said the same thing about Stallalonga. He graduated in 2015. And he was hardly the first.
Waiting decades for the refs to call stalling the way we want, is itself a form of stalling.
Doesn’t that mean most guys will stall for 30 seconds to avoid giving up a point?
I know. I sit there and wonder why refs let both wrestlers do nothing for entire periods. And it's just not my PSU bias. Go turn on any match on the ESPN app. Some of it is so bad, it's unwatchable.
The real question is, which comes first: Refs start aggressively calling stalling or PSU comes back to the pack after Taylor and Ruth graduate.
I typically like tradition when it comes to sports. However, escapes have always been worth too much IMO. How many RBY/Nolf/Brooks matches have we watched where they are destroying guys on their feet only to be winning 8-5 or 10-6 only giving up escapes. Escapes are going to be even more common without the riding point. Guys will just cut them loose. Something has to give. 3 pt TD's is the answer, albeit throwing tradition out the door.
This.
Would add that their lack of calling the stall means that guys are massively incentivized to just never wrestle late with any lead. The irony with Spencer losing is that, had he just wrestled the last 40 seconds like everyone else does with a 3 point lead, he likely wins 8-5. He probably could have sprinted to OOB and won by that spread. Were never going to ding him, let alone enough that it would have impacted the result.
In both cases aren't you down two TDs? I imagine along with those lopsided wins you'll see some fantastic come back wins.
The only rule I wish they would attempt to fix was when a top wrestler carries or pulls a bottom wrestler OOB as he almost escapes.
I don't disagree with anything you say here, but it can really just be summarized to "Just make it Freestyle".
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