No one mentions the other advantage gained by cheating to garner wins. More wins means the attention of more high level recruits. This can translate into actual legitimate wins. It allows cheaters to perpetuate their ill gotten gains.
NCAA to present findings and (only) recommend post-season ban for Cheaters of the West. No vacated natty or wins per report
- Thread starter SLion
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Plus, more wins means more likely to be in the playoff or moving up to a higher level bowl game and then the extra money from sales of merchandise and so forth.
This was a 3 year process for Michigan. The '21 team was probably luckier than they were good, but if they had other teams signals then who actually know what they would have finished record wise.
The most reasonable punishment for cheating of this nature is to eliminate them from post season eligibility for the next 9-10 years. Fine them a percentage of the money they are set to receive each season. Make Michigan an after thought as far as going there to make the playoff and handicap them financially.
Let every kid leave the program the day it's handed down.
Again, this is if you have the evidence. Moore deleting texts is a TERRIBLE look. He probably ends up the main scapegoat in this all...
Connor THE NAVAL SEAL BRAINIAC will be the "rouge"....ladder climber....starry eyed golden boy.
As was said to us- "Burn it down!"
Partridge is a typical North Jersey Con Man who rode Rashan Gary to D 1. Then he left to Ole Miss where he maybe learned a thing or two and came back to a promotion. Imagine that?
Harbaugh is slime. "He HAD TO KNOW."
Partridge intimidating a kid a to keep the SECRET SAUCE SECRET. Staloins giving paper copies of playsheets to protect himself while still "winning."
UM is a pile of ethical SHIT 🌋 on the field. We went through our time- but not as Cheaters.
Champions? Yeah.....I got that T Shirt.
F- Blue.
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Again, the same people that count it now will then as well.
If the NCAA does nothing is that going to make you believe their title was legit? Of course not--understandably.
As far as I'm concerned, the team that wins on the field wins the title--action needs to be taken prior to the game or it's too late. Penn State, Ohio State, Alabama and Washington all had a chance to prevent this from happening and couldn't get it done. It is what it is.
Not a Michigan fan
Just like I count all of the HRs Bonds hit and the Astros titles. What happened, happened.
You still refuse to answer the question...if the NCAA doesn't vacate the title will you deem it legit?
The NCAA can force mich to vacate wins but cannot force mich fanboys from taking down an invitational banner. Everybody except the fanboys will know the banner was obtained by fraud.
While factually accurate, this is a silly thing to brag about. I'd trade a major infraction for the actions of Sandusky in a heartbeat. We have a permanent stain far, far worse than any typical major infraction.
Hopefully, if you finally get a job and earn some money, someone steals all of it, and then we can tell you that, as far as we’re concerned, the money is the thief’s because you didn’t stop them from robbing/swindling you. What happened happened after all. Stop failing logic and basic ethics.
Again you still haven't answered the question nor does your response have anything to do with what I said.
Ethics have nothing to do with this. Who said it was ethical?
And I have a job...do you?
Remember if someone steals your money they may be penalized by the law afterwards but that money is still gone. The event still occurred and everything that happened after still occurred. I can be angry about it but have no choice but to accept what happened.
It's like if someone is murder can the legal system being them back? Sadly no. Just like Michigan won. Just like USC won. Just like the Astros won. Just like the Pats won.
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I would wait to see what the punishment is actually going to be. It will probably be worse than some think but not as bad as I would hope for. But anything that hurts those cheating lying assholes in piss-colored pants is good with me.
Michigan football may face postseason ban amid NCAA probe: report
A probe led by the NCAA could result in the Michigan football program receiving a Notice of Allegations as soon as this week, and the result may include an attewww.si.com
What a pathetic organization..cheating wins again.
Sandusky abusing children via his charity has zero to do with PSU Football or the NCAA - precisely what a Court of Law ruled, so I have no f'ing idea what in the hell you are trying to say. Good Lord some of you are pathetic.
I wouldn't. Especially since Sandusky was wrongly convicted.
‘The Sandusky Case is Exactly Opposite to What the Public Believes’: The Case Against Jerry Sandusky Reexamined - Artvoice
It began with an article Rich Luthmann wrote for the Frank Report, where he mentioned Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State football coach convicted of sexually abusing boys in 2012. The Frank Report repeated the common narrative and read, in part: "Joe Paterno, then the head football coach...
artvoice.com
Not a major infraction. Never been found guilty of one in ANY sport.
Penn State Sanctions
$60 million fine. The NCAA imposes a $60 million fine, equivalent to the approximate average of one year's gross revenues from the Penn State football program,www.ncaa.org
Don't believe me? Find it in the database. Here, I'll help:
Summarizing - Michigan Cheats to win.
Isn't it strange how they didn't start winning anything until the recruiting violations, sign stealing etc.... started?
Isn't it strange how they didn't start winning anything until the recruiting violations, sign stealing etc.... started?
That’s not how reality works. No, you legally have the right to obtain your money back, scoobs.
Everyone knows stolen money isn’t the thief’s to own, and you have legal recourse to get it back.
It’s exactly the opposite of what you’re trying to convey.
Re murder … we can’t change that. You physically can’t bring someone back to life in that manner. Otherwise, we WOULD “change the past.”
With a competitive event, we CAN change our official outlook on what happened, and we CAN take back what you gained from the cheating. Just like with fraudulent business dealings … if you are unjustly enriched, we can officially announce as such and we can demand the unjust enrichment be purged and returned back to its rightful owner.
You can keep repeating your same wrongful interpretation, as you do, Edwardo, but it’ll still be wrong.
You can’t “change the past” … what happened happened … but you can change what was derived from those actions in many cases … and athletic outcomes is no different. You “won” because you cheated? OK, but no you didn’t. You give the win back. And we may hand it to someone else. And you can stomp your feet and hold your breath, repeating that what happened happened, but that doesn’t matter.
And, most definitely ethics is involved. Your outlook is to ignore ethical considerations, at best, and to promote unethical actions in reality. Someone swindled you out of money? Tough noogies, it’s theirs now. You’re promoting theft. Cheating. Stealing. Or, we can do the right thing and attempt to address the unfair outcomes that resulted. If we can locate the money, we give it back. If we can take away the win you obtained through fraudulent means, we do that.
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How am I getting my money back?
You already have that outlook. Nothing the NCAA does impacts that.
It's not wrong...you just don't like the reality of it. Who won the game?
None of what you're saying is relevant. The game occurred and there was an outcome. I don't care about anything else. That what happens.
You're welcome to your holier than though take as literally no title is legit with your logic and those that care about on field results are entitled to their take.
Lol at wrongly convicted. This is why Joe's legacy will never be restored. You still want to believe he's innocent to protect Joe. The trial was fair or the verdict would have been overturned long ago.I wouldn't. Especially since Sandusky was wrongly convicted.
‘The Sandusky Case is Exactly Opposite to What the Public Believes’: The Case Against Jerry Sandusky Reexamined - Artvoice
It began with an article Rich Luthmann wrote for the Frank Report, where he mentioned Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State football coach convicted of sexually abusing boys in 2012. The Frank Report repeated the common narrative and read, in part: "Joe Paterno, then the head football coach...
Since your ability to comprehend is hindered by your mich fanboy status, I will repeat the answer to your silly question. Everybody (myself included) except the mich fanboys (you and your fellow fanboys) will know the banner (through the auspices of the CFP invitation) was obtained by fraud. Therefore, I will not consider the mich so called championship banner as legitimate because it was obtained by cheating. Your statement about the NCAA vacating the mich banner is false as the NCAA has nothing to do with the CFP. They can't vacate anything they had nothing to do with.
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Belief has nothing to do with it. I operate only on data.
Appeals are still ongoing.
So you don't care how the NCAA rules (either way you don't count it) but also believe they need to vacate the title. Make it make sense....
And, as an attorney, they have zero chance of winning an appeal. You're not operating on data. You're picking and choosing what info you want to believe.
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Am I wrong or has Michigan been almost entirely silence about this including their fans? They won their title and seem content.
The letter refers to the NCAA constitution and Bylaws. Pretty specific.
This was far more serious than a recruiting violation.
We had no less than 3 posting here when things filtered out originally. They definitely weren't silent at that time.
Post-title, I've not seen them. I don't visit Michigan boards though. I guess it depends on your definition of "almost entirely silent". They aren't HERE, on THIS board, but they are everywhere else.
Even the reporting on this is 50/50 like politics. One side posting the extremes of how punishment could go then the others saying "slap on the wrist". Quite comical actually.
Latest Jerry Sandusky Appeal - ABC23
A new State Appeals Court hearing for convicted child abuser Jerry Sandusky was held early Wednesday in Harrisburg. The hearing was held before a three Judge panel from the State Superior Court. Sandusky’s Legal Council is asking for a new trial, claiming new evidence, concerning repressed...
Doesn't look good according to the article.
In their latest appeal this was reported "But the Judges Wednesday were aggressive in questioning Sandusky’s Attorney, terming much of the so-called new evidence as either being in-admissible, or had already been previously ruled on."
Interesting too that Anthony Lubrano was there at the hearing.
I'm fine with any future sanctions even if I don't think they'll happen. I really think they've been relatively quiet which I'd why this was basically a topic that got zero media attention for about 6 months. Even when they were playing for the title it was more of an after thought.
Right that response by the judges indicate his attorneys have nothing. You realize if it's already been ruled on or inadmissible its not new evidence, yes?
It's not interesting Lubrano was there. This is his obsession.
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Yes I agree with you that he has really nothing plus the psychologist and the victims deny that therapy was ever used and Sandusky had no proof that is was.
Why is Lubrano so obsessed with this?
He's obsessed with the entire Sandusky situation and has been since day 1
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