Next year and beyond - 1st 4 weight classes (Long)

[21Guns]

As far as 49 goes, forget it: Everyone will be either sucking weight, or eating like crazy, in a mad dash to get away from that beating that awaits them.

 

[21Guns]

Same as always, whoever cuts most gets the start.

Lmao. Smith gonna Smith.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I want Lee as much as any fan.

That said, I'm not sweating over one teenager's decisions. Cael will get his share + Pitt's share. If he lands (hypothetically) Teasdale, Busiello, Sasso, Beard, Hoffman, and Snacks to go along with Suriano, Hall, The Anvil, and the Lee brothers... that's still dominant.

I'm sure we'd all prefer Carl gets his share + Ryan's share, but we'll live.

(Damn phone auto-correct ... Carl.)

Your hypothetical lineup = muy Bueno! I'm on the Busiello bandwagon myself.

 

[dicemen99]

To be clear, I have no horse in the race for Lee. Probably haven't made a single comment on his recruitment before now.

But since you brought up the issue, I thought it odd that a comment recently made by Hall would in anyway sway your opinion on Lee. Like you I feel we will survive with or without Lee. I was just looking for clarity.

Like I said before, I appreciate the write-up, and pretty much agree with everything you wrote.

Sorry if it came off snippy - wasn't directed at you, but more in general at all the Lee comments.

The Hall comment didn't sway my opinion. More like gave me a concrete example of what I was already thinking. A little difficult to put into words without coming off as bashing the kid - which I don't intend to do. Just made it easier to relay my "feeling" on the whole matter.

 

[tikk10]

I realize this is putting the cart way before the horse, but I couldn't help question whether Spencer Lee will even be at a D1 school for four years after seeing him interviewed and asked whether he preferred freestyle or folk: he didn't hesitate to say freestyle, emphatically. Miles to go before such a scenario could be a reality (strength and pounds to go before he can challenge at 57kg) but he's already had a taste of international success and if things break right it wouldn't shock me to see him ditch folk. I imagine he'd have to have the success on par with Snyder for that to happen, and this is obviously far off speculation. If I'm recruiting him, it's a minor concern, partly because of that answer (and the not-remote likelihood that he'll find success at the senior level in freestyle) and partly because 125 is a difficult weight to recruit for once you've got a guaranteed starter locked in.

 

[LemonPie]

Appreciate the mention!

 

[minnhawkeye]

I really don't believe Penn State has any reason not to believe that Lee will be in blue and white.
Unless he really likes free style better than he might just go to Olympic training center. Can work on getting his weight up plus the improvement in his free style wrestling. This is I believe the only way you could lose him.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

A restful day here on Easter Sunday, and thought I would post some thoughts on next year, since this one is done. I still have a couple of weeks until we round out the ETR field for next year which will then occupy a lot of my wrestling writing time and felt like staying busy today. Some of the kids below I am more knowledgeable about then others, so I may be off base on some and miss a couple of others. Some is just conjecture, some with some knowledge. As always, JMO, so take it for what it's worth. Would like to get some good discussion going from some of our more "inside" guys on the college guys and those of you around the state on the HS gusy. I'll take a crack at the rest of the weights as the week proceeds.

125
2016/17 Starter: Suriano, FR. Projecting true frosh is always a bit of a crapshoot and much will depend on the progress Suriano makes when he gets on campus this summer. But 125 is not a bad weight to have a 1st year guy at, and only NTGilman and Micic seem to be beyond reach at this time. It has been opined – on other boards – that Nick will not have any neutral offense in college but evidently they don't watch tape. He certainly has been able to get to legs and finish on high quality opponents rather easily. Karam - one of the most sound defensive HS wrestlers you will ever see - he methodically picked apart, something Daton Fix nor anyone else has been able to do. He'll probably need more diversity to his neutral offense to win a NC, but what HS wrestler doesn't? And his head/hands defense is elite. His style may be decidedly more Zain-like than Nolf-like, he is a dominant rider on top and excellent on the bottom. Will transition well and progress in the room will dictate what he achieves as a true frosh. He is as ready as Nico was coming out, but that doesn't mean he will be in the finals. We will be more than fine here. The best part about this kid is his attitude. Have seen him going back to his days as a youth wrestler and what sets him apart is his will to dominate.


Backups: Yankovich-rsSO, Stossel-rsSO, Higgins-rsFR, Schnupp-FR, Friery-FR. Right now we do not have a backup capable of qualifying for NCAAs – which is the same for most teams. Yankovich is probably the most capable and would be much more ready than any of the other two freshman coming in this year in Schnupp and Friery. I've always liked Schnupp – the kid seems to know how to win. Was injured this year and didn't have quite the season he is capable of. Maybe some potential a couple years down the road.


2018 and beyond/Recruiting: Obviously, Lee is the plan in El Jefe's plan for world domination. And although it would be great to add him, I'm drifting into the camp of “I don't really care.” Another kid that I've seen since 6th grade and super talented. But I just don't see him ending up at PSU. I could be way off on this but Mark Hall's interview the other day just really hit home with me. Paraphrasing, but “Coach Slay and Coach Sanderson are my family now and will have a plan for me. And that plan will be in my best interests.” I just don't see a comment like this coming out of the Lee camp. And I'll reserve judgment on the 4 national championships until he comes up to 126/132 and continues to dominate the elite kids, although I understand the enthusiasm. If I had to bet, I would guess he ends up at tOSU and he will do fine. And PSU will still be more than fine. If no Lee, at least one more year of Suriano at 125, then Teasdale comes in, or perhaps Murin after a redshirt (no idea of his growth here). Or maybe Suriano spends more years than one might think at 125 and Schnupp develops.


133
Starter: Jered Cortez-rsSO. Cortez was a great add and will slide right in at 133. A hammer on top, I do have some concerns about him in neutral and that will be dictate how successful he is. AA capable, but not sure if he has the neutral offense at this point to have a higher ceiling than Conaway this coming year. Didn't see a ton of him this year, looking forward to seeing him in the offseason.


Backups: George Carpenter-rsSO, Mason Lindemuth-FR. Much like 125, our main backup here, Carpenter, is a capable D1 wrestler but would be much more at home battling for a starting position at a lower tier program. Tristan Law wrestled at 141 during his redshirt season, but if he could make 133 I think he would be a nice candidate here and would be a real nice insurance policy if he continues to develop.


2018 and beyond/Recruiting: Cortez for sure as a JR and then possibly Suriano – depending on how we recruit 125. We will get one or two name recruits like the ones mentioned above over the next two recruiting classes.


141
Starter: Jimmy Gulibon-rsSR. Jimmy should be better this year, but I'm wary on predicting it. Maybe he's hit a plateau mentally – who knows? He's not the greatest scrambler, which I think limits his upside at a lower weight class. He needs to get there through strength and technique – which has always been his go-tos even in high school. Stick him in a room with Gorilla tank for 6 months and see what happens, that is his path to success, JMO.


Backups: Kade Moss-rsJR, Gary Dinmore-rsFR, Tristan Law-rsFR, Dom Giannangelli-rsFR, Luke Gardner-FR. Serious talent here behind Jimmy, if both Moss and Dinmore continue to develop they could step right in and PSU may not miss a beat. It would not surprise me to see one or both seriously challenge Gulibon for the starting position. Law, as pointed out above, also has talent. Giannangelli is a talented project at least a couple years away and I like Gardner coming in. All of these guys could be D1 starters and two of them (Moss and Dinmore) are top 25 program guys right now.


2018 and beyond/recruiting: Dinmore/Moss for 2017/18, then it gets murky depending on 125/133. Nick Lee is committed for 2017 class and will likely redshirt and who knows what weight he will be in 2018/19. Either way, he is extremely talented and I've written before that he is somewhat under the radar with our recruiting efforts. IMO he is a top 10 recruit in 2017 and should be as heralded as Suriano/Marinelli type. Doubtful we are spending any more money in the next class on someone who projects at 141/149. Of the 2 kids I think would be candidates – Zack Trampe won't end up here and Verkleeren, who I've heard nothing about, I think would have been smoke already if he was coming. I think it's Nick Lee and we're good.


149
Starter: Zain Retherford-rsJR. Zain is going to win 2 more championships at 149, enough said. He may get beat once during the next two years, but hopefully that will not come in the NCAA finals. Barring injury of course. He takes over the mantle from Dieringer.


Backups: The guys mentioned above, primarily Moss, Dinmore and Gardner eventually. Manville, when he comes in, is a possibility here also – despite what LemonPie posts. I don't see Manville as ever being more than a 157 in college, but that is a more likely weight for him to land at considering Nolf may move up. But if he doesn't, I would fully expect Manville to head here to compete for a starting spot.


2018 and beyond/Recruiting: Zain in 2017/18 and then Nick Lee, Dinmore or Manville. Maybe, maybe a recruit from the 2018 class who projects here. Sasso would be a top candidate, but I doubt he comes here – although that could change. Shane Griffith would be another candidate, but no idea on that and remember we have Joe Lee coming in and no idea on what weight he would project to by 2019/20.

Two questions in regards to Jimmy: 1) How many TD total did he have last year @41 and in the 2014-2015 Season @33?, and 2) What was his finishing % on quality shots last year @41 and in the 2014-2015 Season @33?

The reasons for the differences between Jimmy's success at 33 and 41 are not "strength" imho as he had plenty of time to add "quality weight" (e.g., muscle) when making the move from 33 to 41. His difference in success, especially in regards to "scrambling" and "funk" as well as finishing % on quality shots points to struggling with the "length" he was giving up to just about everybody he faced at the new weight. Muscle is denser than fat, so logic dictates that Jimmy is not going to be able to add a lot of muscle if he was already a solid 41 lber and already carrying a low body-fat ratio.....otoh, logic also dictates that Jimmy can shed some muscle over time ("manage the cut") to get back back down to 33. It would be a fairly drastic cut to manage over a short span such as a week, but it is manageable with this much lead time assuming his 133 is relatively decent weight for his body frame (e.g., won't emaciate him). I believe Cortez is a couple inches taller than Jimmy so it's illogical to believe that Cortez can wrestle @33 with his body, but it would be impossible for Jimmy....that simply does not make logical sense.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Sorry if it came off snippy - wasn't directed at you, but more in general at all the Lee comments.

The Hall comment didn't sway my opinion. More like gave me a concrete example of what I was already thinking. A little difficult to put into words without coming off as bashing the kid - which I don't intend to do. Just made it easier to relay my "feeling" on the whole matter.

Dice,

I think you have come up with a very subtle, but perceptive insight, regarding Spencer and the more I thought about it, I tend to agree with it. It is impossible to know what the coaching staff's mind set is on this, but I would not be completely caught off guard, if they took a pass on Spencer.

 

[dicemen99]

Dice,

I think you have come up with a very subtle, but perceptive insight, regarding Spencer and the more I thought about it, I tend to agree with it. It is impossible to know what the coaching staff's mind set is on this, but I would not be completely caught off guard, if they took a pass on Spencer.

I'm not on board with that. I think the staff will recruit him hard and offer him fairly - in line with all the other top recruits we've landed. My opinion again is that it seems that Lee has a plan - if it takes him to PSU that will be great. If it doesn't it, we will move on quickly and someone else that is very talented will be here.

And my general point is that there is way too much emphasis on the recruitment of one once-in-a-decade (but they seem to come around once every year or two) kid. The whole picture tells us we will be more than fine with or without him.

 

[LemonPie]

Willie saying that Manville's weight is around 190.