Not much discussion about Mega & JG upsets

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Found both very surprising, but for different reasons....thought that JG might be slightly over-ranked given that it was a new weight and could be vulnerable against top competition at the new weight, but really pretty surprised to see him lose to an unranked wrestler with far less NCAA experience than himself. Jimmy still showing the same vulnerabilities from his freshman year....can't finish his own attacks (e.g., not enough offense or at least not enough "effective offense") and still has lapses in regards to defense/counters from the neutral position, especially when he is stuck in a close match and is attempting to force his offense (e.g., he losses his offense/defense equibrium and exposes himself to the counter).

Mega I'm just simply very surprised to see him lose to a probable non-podium AA. IOW, his loss is more acceptable/understandable than JG's imho because Dance is a real threat in March and will likely go deep into brackets, but really thought Mega would be a "man on a mission" - very surprised to see him upset even though there is no shame in losing to Dance, he's a solid AA. Maybe Mega concentrated too much on Freestyle and has developed some rust that needs to be "shook off" in regards to NCAA Folkstyle - especially in regard to "mat wrestling" (little disappointed that he would lose by getting "ridden out" in OT, but unable to ride-out a lower ranked opponent.).

 

[uppermaclion]

The mega loss is surprising to me. He got out muscled a bit towards the end. He wasn't attacking as much as expected, but still had the match won. I'm not sure what to make of this, given dance is a pretty good wrestler.

JG's match is pretty much how he's wrestled his entire career. So I'm not shocked as he has had these kinds of matches his entire career so far. I don't know why he can't finish his shots. Is it a strength issue? Wasn't there a story about JG being one of the strongest P4P guys on the team last year? So I don't get it. However, you compare him to how ZR looks and wrestles and it sure seems like a strength issue to me. However, this result isn't shocking at all.

 

[royboy]

The mega loss is surprising to me. He got out muscled a bit towards the end. He wasn't attacking as much as expected, but still had the match won. I'm not sure what to make of this, given dance is a pretty good wrestler.

JG's match is pretty much how he's wrestled his entire career. So I'm not shocked as he has had these kinds of matches his entire career so far. I don't know why he can't finish his shots. Is it a strength issue? Wasn't there a story about JG being one of the strongest P4P guys on the team last year? So I don't get it. However, you compare him to how ZR looks and wrestles and it sure seems like a strength issue to me. However, this result isn't shocking at all.

Agreed on both counts. Nico did get muscled some -- Dance kept the pressure on in the tie-ups and forced Nico's head down, wore him out a bit. Nico probably could have wrestled more conservatively, but Dance took advantage in the 3rd and made the move to tie it up. Dance had more juice in the O/T -- won't be easy for Nico to beat him if they meet again. FWIW, heard some of the VaTech fans at the arena talk about how "the good Joey showed up today", so consistency is not his strong point.

Wasn't shocked by Gulibon's loss, though I think the take down call against him was dubious. One thing about Gulibon that is unusual for an elite wrestler -- he has small hands.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The mega loss is surprising to me. He got out muscled a bit towards the end. He wasn't attacking as much as expected, but still had the match won. I'm not sure what to make of this, given dance is a pretty good wrestler.

JG's match is pretty much how he's wrestled his entire career. So I'm not shocked as he has had these kinds of matches his entire career so far. I don't know why he can't finish his shots. Is it a strength issue? Wasn't there a story about JG being one of the strongest P4P guys on the team last year? So I don't get it. However, you compare him to how ZR looks and wrestles and it sure seems like a strength issue to me. However, this result isn't shocking at all.

Mega was focusing on Freestyle last year during his red-shirt.....don't think you can discount that. I read the review write up and it sounded like Mega was really pressing the attacks in 1st Period and the only party shooting / attempting their own offense....from the description, it sure sounded like Dance should have been called for stalling (possibly multiple times) as the write up said he didn't even attempt a shot or his own offense for the last 2 minutes of 1st Period and Mega was relentless in his offensive attacks. No way Dance gets away with this BS in "real wrestling" (e.g., Olympic/International styles) and frankly, NCAA Officials have been instructed to stop allowing this weak BS to go on because it is destrroying the sport and is NOT what wrestling is about (e.g., officials are not supposed to encourage or reward CLEAR STALLING where only one wrestler is attempting ofense - quite the opposite in fact, the NCAA has made it clear that wrestlers who attempt to negate the hugely important 1st Period "neutral position" via BS and illegal stalling techniques are supposed to get dinged and WOULD GET DINGED IN AN INTERNATIONAL FREESTYLE COMPETITION).

It is also understandable why Mega's "mat wrestling" periods would be a bit rusty because these "set position" mat-wrestling periods are not part of, or practiced, in Freestyle.

 

[mn78psu83]

Agreed on both counts. Nico did get muscled some -- Dance kept the pressure on in the tie-ups and forced Nico's head down, wore him out a bit. Nico probably could have wrestled more conservatively, but Dance took advantage in the 3rd and made the move to tie it up. Dance had more juice in the O/T -- won't be easy for Nico to beat him if they meet again. FWIW, heard some of the VaTech fans at the arena talk about how "the good Joey showed up today", so consistency is not his strong point.

Wasn't shocked by Gulibon's loss, though I think the take down call against him was dubious. One thing about Gulibon that is unusual for an elite wrestler -- he has small hands.

One thing about Gulibon that is unusual for an elite wrestler -- he has small hands.

He does seem to lose grip quite often just when he appears to be getting into good position.

 

[shak66_psu]

Dance was stronger - I thought that was the difference in the match. The two are very evenly matched - if they wrestle 10 times maybe one wins 6 bouts. JG will be back. It's early and it's a new weight. I am sure he is as frustrated as everyone, so let's cut him some slack.

 

[shak66_psu]

Dance was stronger - I thought that was the difference in the match. The two are very evenly matched - if they wrestle 10 times maybe one wins 6 bouts. JG will be back. It's early and it's a new weight. I am sure he is as frustrated as everyone, so let's cut him some slack.

 

[jack66]

I was surprised Nico allowed himself to get into that front headlock position so often. He seemingly walks right into it sometimes and It allows his opponent to milk time off the clock ... I would have thought he would have that corrected.

JG just doesn't show the same sense of urgency our other kids do. When you put the match in the refs hands it's not always going to go your way. From Cael's body language I don't think he was happy with Jimmy's performance.

 

[El-Jefe]

Mega I'm just simply very surprised to see him lose to a probable non-podium AA. IOW, his loss is more acceptable/understandable than JG's imho because Dance is a real threat in March and will likely go deep into brackets ...

These are incompatible statements.

Calling Dance "a probable non-podium AA" is simply incomprehensible. AAs are by definition on the podium. And Dance has now beaten all 4 of the top 4 guys at 125, plus pinned the national champ.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

Not much discussions because these types of things happen in November. It's early, no biggie. You can't use it as an excuse but both Nico and Jimmy did most (if not all) of the shooting in these matches. Nico much more than Jimmy but neither opponent was aggressive. Both are going to need to learn how to score more when their opponents are playing defense.

November is a time to see where you are at and what you need to improve upon. You learn a lot more after a loss than a win so hopefully both Nico and Jimmy will use this to improve their skills. This won't be the last time they see this type of defensive strategy.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

These are incompatible statements.

Calling Dance "a probable non-podium AA" is simply incomprehensible. AAs are by definition on the podium. And Dance has now beaten all 4 of the top 4 guys at 125, plus pinned the national champ.

Uhh....no, there are 8 AAs at each weight but only 3 make "the podium" - both wrestlers from the the Championship Bracket (1st & 2nd - e.g., Gold & Silver) and the winner of the Consi Bracket (Bronze - e.g., 3rd).

 

[KidNittany]

Uhh....no, there are 8 AAs at each weight but only 3 make "the podium" - both wrestlers from the the Championship Bracket (1st & 2nd - e.g., Gold & Silver) and the winner of the Consi Bracket (Bronze - e.g., 3rd).

........interesting.

See below

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Uhh....no, there are 8 AAs at each weight but only 3 make "the podium" - both wrestlers from the the Championship Bracket (1st & 2nd - e.g., Gold & Silver) and the winner of the Consi Bracket (Bronze - e.g., 3rd).

Really? If so, what were these 5 other guys doing on the podium when Matt Brown was given the Gold Medal?

 

[jack66]

Uhh....no, there are 8 AAs at each weight but only 3 make "the podium" - both wrestlers from the the Championship Bracket (1st & 2nd - e.g., Gold & Silver) and the winner of the Consi Bracket (Bronze - e.g., 3rd).

You must be new here.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Not much discussions because these types of things happen in November. It's early, no biggie. You can't use it as an excuse but both Nico and Jimmy did most (if not all) of the shooting in these matches. Nico much more than Jimmy but neither opponent was aggressive. Both are going to need to learn how to score more when their opponents are playing defense.

November is a time to see where you are at and what you need to improve upon. You learn a lot more after a loss than a win so hopefully both Nico and Jimmy will use this to improve their skills. This won't be the last time they see this type of defensive strategy.

Under recent NCAA directives, Dance should not have been permitted to stall-away the 1st Period. This is not "real wrestling" or a technique that should be permitted, much less rewarded, by the Official - this type of BS destroys interest in the sport because it is beyond boring and illegal in regards to the clear spirit of wrestling's long standing rules....rules that long predated "Folkstyle".

The NCAA supposedly was going to make it a point of emphasis that "inactive" wrestlers would be dinged in 1st Period especially if their opponent was working his @as off and generating 100% of the offensive action? Why do I have a feeling the a-hole dentist from VB, Va who screwed us multiple times last year on this type of BS (not calling clear stalling on PSU opponents....questionable TD calls....etc.) was the Official on the match?

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Really? If so, what were these 5 other guys doing on the podium when Matt Brown was given the Gold Medal?

I'm talking in traditional wrestling tournaments such as open tournaments like Scuffle, open HS tournaments, etc... They only have 3 "medalists" - not talking about the NCAA's unique recognition system of 8 AAs. So let me put it this way since your panties are all in a bunch about it - Dance will likely imo be a second tier AA, not in the "Medal matches" of either bracket.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

Under recent NCAA directives, Dance should not have been permitted to stall-away the 1st Period. This is not "real wrestling" or a technique that should be permitted, much less rewarded, by the Official - this type of BS destroys interest in the sport because it is beyond boring and illegal in regards to the clear spirit of wrestling's long standing rules....rules that long predated "Folkstyle".

The NCAA supposedly was going to make it a point of emphasis that "inactive" wrestlers would be dinged in 1st Period especially if their opponent was working his @as off and generating 100% of the offensive action? Why do I have a feeling the a-hole dentist from VB, Va who screwed us multiple times last year on this type of BS (not calling clear stalling on PSU opponents....questionable TD calls....etc.) was the Official on the match?

You are correct but as a wrestler you never want to leave things in the hands of the official. Nico, Jimmy, and EVERYBODY in the PSU lineup is going to face opponents who's strategy will be to get out of the first period 0-0. All need to work on who to score in the face of an opponent (and official) who will not force the action.

 

[El-Jefe]

I'm talking in traditional wrestling tournaments such as open tournaments like Scuffle, open HS tournaments, etc... They only have 3 "medalists" - not talking about the NCAA's unique recognition system of 8 AAs. So let me put it this way since your panties are all in a bunch about it - Dance will likely imo be a second tier AA, not in the "Medal matches" of either bracket.

Chris Perry would be proud of this backpedaling.

BTW, PIAA podium = 8, and has for years.

 

[dicemen99]

Was not surprised at either loss. I know many on here were considering Nico to be a favorite for the NC, but I'm on record as being hesitant on that. The RS thing late in one's career doesn't always work out that great. Still worried about him against Tomasello and Dance is excellent - he just took 1 bad loss to Youtsey at NCAAs last year, but it was in the consys where weird things often happen. The top 4 are clearly a step above the rest. That said, I thought Nico controlled the match for about 6 minutes there and if he had just cut him by bailing out he's walking away with a solid 4-2 win vs. Dance. I would still pick Nico in the rematch, for the majority of the match he was better - slightly - in neutral and on the mat. Things happen sometimes.

As far as JG goes - at this point in his career, I'm not sure what the surprise is. And the weight class is not the issue, he was the same at 133 as 141. He can beat anyone at 141. He is also prone to matches where he can lose to anyone in the top 20. He is an AA talent, but not a dominating NC talent. He wrestles a lot of matches where he has trouble getting his offense going, but he's still a very good wrestler. You watch the match with Chisko - again, it's his match for most of it. He just didn't put up any points. Yes, probably had a TD earlier that wasn't called, but did not do enough offensively during the match. Press the action and he could have easily earned another stall in the match, but he didn't. Someone else posted it before - another JG match where he wrestles well for 6 1/2 minutes but doesn't separate himself and then loses with a brain fart at the end. Although I would counter that this is most of his matches with top guys and sometimes he wins it at the end - just that when he brain farts it tends to stick in our minds. Hopefully he has a nice tourney at NCAA this year.

On the whole for the weekend, I think this was a very positive one for PSU title hopes. Although the Nico and JG losses will get a lot of play nationally, again, I don't think that they showed anything unexpected. More positive was Nolf and Nickal - there is no doubt that both are threats for the top of the podium now. Also, Mouse looks very, very good, but I'll hold off judgement about how good until after the Scuffle. But early on he looks like he took a big step in the offseason. Also, Rasheed is a positive in my book. Not much expected from this weight class. For 2 periods he pretty much took it to McFadden - who just beat the crap out of the #7 wrestler in the country. You could see he had nothing in the 3rd, nothing at all. If he can manage the cut, he's going to be a bonus for us. If not, again nothing was expected here. He's got a lot of talent.

 

[Hartzie]

Chris Perry would be proud of this backpedaling.

BTW, PIAA podium = 8, and has for years.

Also seems funny when he was referring to AA & "podium" in the same sentence, he was talking about "other" tourneys.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

You are correct but as a wrestler you never want to leave things in the hands of the official. Nico, Jimmy, and EVERYBODY in the PSU lineup is going to face opponents who's strategy will be to get out of the first period 0-0. All need to work on who to score in the face of an opponent (and official) who will not force the action.

Not having seen the bout, I can only go by the write-up, but based on the detailed "play-by-play" write-up I read, it absolutely sounds like Dance was permitted to illegally stall for much of the match. Coupled with the questionable last-second TD call on JG, this sounds like the work of that a-hole McCormick who pulled the same one-sided BS on us last year in multiple matches including Iowa if I remember correctly.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Not having seen the bout, I can only go by the write-up, but based on the detailed "play-by-play" write-up I read, it absolutely sounds like Dance was permitted to illegally stall for much of the match. Coupled with the questionable last-second TD call on JG, this sounds like the work of that a-hole McCormick who pulled the same one-sided BS on us last year in multiple matches including Iowa if I remember correctly.

Joey would clamp down in a front headlock and hang there.... that should have gotten a stalling call in the first period. The one item associated with the ref was the plethora of false starts. At one point, I though he might be doing (or not doing) something to cause them... I believe going into SV Nico was out of warnings.. he had accumulated three (if mem serves...)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

So let me put it this way since your panties are all in a bunch about it

The adult thing to do would to simply admit that you were mistaken, and either thank those who pointed that out or leave it at the admission of a mistake. Instead, you put in a little attack against me even though all I did was point out that you were wrong, plus you came up with a convoluted explanation which El-Jefe has also pointed out has a hole in it.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Chris Perry would be proud of this backpedaling.

BTW, PIAA podium = 8, and has for years.

Yes, I understand...(grew up and wrestled in PA...literally wrestled against in grade school, and many, many hours "in the room" on the same team in high school, against a future Olympian). Talking about traditional open tournaments such as Jr Olympics, regional qualifiers of open tournaments, etc... - I'll call them the "Medal matches" or "Finals Match of either bracket" from now on because the other attribution seems to bother people. BTW, I am in no way saying I'm correct regarding Dance - he could easily crack the Championship match of either bracket, but IMO he does not but will AA (e.g., "2nd tier AA").

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The one item associated with the ref was the plethora of false starts. At one point, I though he might be doing (or not doing) something to cause them...

I don't think the ref did anything wrong with the restarts.

This year's rule book has a change in the restart, requiring both wrestlers to remain motionless for one second before the whistle is blown. The changes are contained in 2.1.3 in the rule book:

"Once the offensive wrestler assumes the correct starting position, the referee shall say, “Set.” At this time the offensive wrestler shall remain stationary (motionless) and the referee shall wait a minimum of one second before sounding the whistle. With both wrestlers stationary (motionless), the referee will start the wrestling."

The portions above in blue are the changes to the rule.

Pretty much every mis-start that caused the ref to issue a caution I saw when I was watching the video of the match last night. The wrestlers were anticipating the whistle and/or jumping the whistle, and as such the calls were pretty easy to make.

Cautions for movement before the whistle were not uncommon under the old rules. Now that there is a built-in delay after the "Set" call, I'm not surprised to see so many cautions early in the season. (On the flip side, I thought I saw several instances over the past week in matches I've watched where the ref reverted to the old rules, and did not hold for a second before blowing the whistle.)

 

[PSU22]

I'm talking in traditional wrestling tournaments such as open tournaments like Scuffle, open HS tournaments, etc... They only have 3 "medalists" - not talking about the NCAA's unique recognition system of 8 AAs. So let me put it this way since your panties are all in a bunch about it - Dance will likely imo be a second tier AA, not in the "Medal matches" of either bracket.

lol you are just making stuff up aren't you? Joey Dance is a very dangerous wrestler and Nico maintained control of most of the match. He's not one to worry about imo.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The adult thing to do would to simply admit that you were mistaken, and either thank those who pointed that out or leave it at the admission of a mistake. Instead, you put in a little attack against me even though all I did was point out that you were wrong, plus you came up with a convoluted explanation which El-Jefe has also pointed out has a hole in it.

Tom, wasn't attempting to attack you - apologize if you took it that way. Was making a wise-crack as to people not liking the attribution I used (which admittedly was referring to "traditional" attribution of open tournaments and absolutely is wrong in regards to the NCAA Tournament which was ultimately the topic of discussion). I should have used clearer terminology such as "medal matches" or "Championship match of either bracket". Thought people understood what I was trying to say, but there is no question I was wrong on the absolute use of the attribution / terminology as it applies to NCAA Tourney and as such should have used clearer terminology.

 

[jack66]

I'm talking in traditional wrestling tournaments such as open tournaments like Scuffle, open HS tournaments, etc... They only have 3 "medalists" - not talking about the NCAA's unique recognition system of 8 AAs. So let me put it this way since your panties are all in a bunch about it - Dance will likely imo be a second tier AA, not in the "Medal matches" of either bracket.

I'm still confused. What is your definition of 'second tier' and 'medal matches'?

When he wrestled for 3rd place as a RS Fr wouldn't that qualify as a medal match?

 

[a_mshaffer]

I don't think the ref did anything wrong with the restarts.

This year's rule book has a change in the restart, requiring both wrestlers to remain motionless for one second before the whistle is blown. The changes are contained in 2.1.3 in the rule book:

"Once the offensive wrestler assumes the correct starting position, the referee shall say, “Set.” At this time the offensive wrestler shall remain stationary (motionless) and the referee shall wait a minimum of one second before sounding the whistle. With both wrestlers stationary (motionless), the referee will start the wrestling."

The portions above in blue are the changes to the rule.

Pretty much every mis-start that caused the ref to issue a caution I saw when I was watching the video of the match last night. The wrestlers were anticipating the whistle and/or jumping the whistle, and as such the calls were pretty easy to make.

Cautions for movement before the whistle were not uncommon under the old rules. Now that there is a built-in delay after the "Set" call, I'm not surprised to see so many cautions early in the season. (On the flip side, I thought I saw several instances over the past week in matches I've watched where the ref reverted to the old rules, and did not hold for a second before blowing the whistle.)

makes sense... especially since they did change the rules... regardless, a lot of false starts I thought... I was sitting behind the ref so I wasn't able to see him. Some use to teach to go or start when you see the cheeks puffing up with air (the moment before the whislte!).. looking forward to this weekend

 

[NittanyChris]

Not worried re Nico. Dance is a very strong wrestler and Nico just allowed himself to get in those tie-ups that wasted a lot of time. That's easily correctable.
As for JG, I have concerns. I think he was over ranked at #2. He is simply too inconsistent IMO. This was mentioned earlier but he's got the talent to beat anyone in his class, and he also can lose to anyone on any given night. Not sure what to do re that.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

I'm still confused. What is your definition of 'second tier' and 'medal matches'?

When he wrestled for 3rd place as a RS Fr wouldn't that qualify as a medal match?

It does - "medal matches" (e.g., Gold, Silver, Bronze...1st, 2nd, 3rd) are determined by the Championship Round of both the Winners and Consi Brackets. I clearly said in both my posts, that imo Dance will not make the Championship Round of either bracket @125 - did not say he had not before via upset. Just my opinion, that he does not pull the upset 2 consecutive years. Mega, Tomasello, Moisey & Gillman are the top 4 imo.

 

[dicemen99]

It does - "medal matches" (e.g., Gold, Silver, Bronze...1st, 2nd, 3rd) are determined by the Championship Round of both the Winners and Consi Brackets. I clearly said in both my posts, that imo Dance will not make the Championship Round of either bracket @125 - did not say he had not before via upset. Just my opinion, that he does not pull the upset 2 consecutive years. Mega, Tomasello, Moisey & Gillman are the top 4 imo.

Do not care to get involved in the discussion on "medal matches," but disagree with your assertion on the "top 4." Dance definitely belongs in there - please take a look at his resume in college. Wins over everyone you mentioned and when he loses to one of them it's generally close. I'm not sure Moisey belongs in that group as of yet, even though he had a nice run to the finals last year. Maybe, but as of right now his resume includes the impressive victory over Gilman, a decision over an obviously ailing Garrett, and I guess a decision over Klimara (after 2 previous losses to him). His early results this year kind of point to the preNCAA Moisey, rather than the national runnerup. Losing to Ronnie Rios is probably not in the cards for Mega, Tomasello, Gilman or Dance, either is a 5-3 decision over Zack Fuentes.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I am more bullish on this team than before the dual. We went up against a fired up team that bushwhacked Ohio State in similar circumstances last year and won fairly comfortably.

Nico's loss could be equated to Matt's loss to Epperly last year - a few uncharacteristic lapses against a really tough opponent and, voila, you lose a heartbreaker.

Inconsistent Jimmy being inconsistent Jimmy

Our highly touted freshmen had to prove they were worth the accolades- all they did was carry the team along with Zain.

If Shakur solves his energy issue, and at least it didn't start in the first like Andrew Alton and Marsteller, he looks dangerous out there. The quick MFF against LHU probably didn't help him at all - he needed a primer before going into that environment.

We solidified our team standing this weekend. We aren't close to a lock, but I like where we are.

 

[dicemen99]

I am more bullish on this team than before the dual. We went up against a fired up team that bushwhacked Ohio State in similar circumstances last year and won fairly comfortably.

Nico's loss could be equated to Matt's loss to Epperly last year - a few uncharacteristic lapses against a really tough opponent and, voila, you lose a heartbreaker.

Inconsistent Jimmy being inconsistent Jimmy

Our highly touted freshmen had to prove they were worth the accolades- all they did was carry the team along with Zain.

If Shakur solves his energy issue, and at least it didn't start in the first like Andrew Alton and Marsteller, he looks dangerous out there. The quick MFF against LHU probably didn't help him at all - he needed a primer before going into that environment.

We solidified our team standing this weekend. We aren't close to a lock, but I like where we are.

Agreed. Much more positive in terms of answers to questions this weekend for those who follow PSU closely. Whereas some people nationally might see some negatives, I don't really see any. Don't feel any differently than I did before about Nico and JG, and any lingering questions about how good Nolf and Nickal really were were put to rest (honestly, I didn't have much of a question about Nolf, but did on Nickal). Plus, I liked the talent Rasheed showed - if he can manage his cut, he will be really good. It's early so what happened Sunday can be expected. Not writing it off, it could linger all season, but it also could get a lot better. Anyway, nobody expected much out of that weight anyway.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Do not care to get involved in the discussion on "medal matches," but disagree with your assertion on the "top 4." Dance definitely belongs in there - please take a look at his resume in college. Wins over everyone you mentioned and when he loses to one of them it's generally close. I'm not sure Moisey belongs in that group as of yet, even though he had a nice run to the finals last year. Maybe, but as of right now his resume includes the impressive victory over Gilman, a decision over an obviously ailing Garrett, and I guess a decision over Klimara (after 2 previous losses to him). His early results this year kind of point to the preNCAA Moisey, rather than the national runnerup. Losing to Ronnie Rios is probably not in the cards for Mega, Tomasello, Gilman or Dance, either is a 5-3 decision over Zack Fuentes.

Difference of opinion.....the one thing with Dance, and the reason I don't see him making it through to the finals of either bracket, is the fact that he rarely "wins" the match even in his upsets - e.g., he almost always "wins ugly" and has very little firepower offensively imo. Just don't see this type of wrestler getting away with his unbecoming tactics and style in the tournament especially in the deeper brackets against top competition and being pushed to wrestle on his feet, or else, by the official.... Again, I could be wrong, just don't think he has enough of his own offense to ultimately control his own destiny in March.

 

[fen103]

The blueprint of beating Nico is to continually tie up with him to slow him down and be very selective and patient with your shots. Almost to the point that you are stalling. This is how Delgado usually beat him. Dance wrestled the same match on Sunday.

Jimmy's loss was puzzling as there was a couple of times I thought he should of been awarded the takedown due to have hip and leg control. The call at the end was also a toss up. However, I do think Chisko is a very good wrestler and this loss may not look as bad in the future.

I would rather them lose now, then lose in the post season. They have plenty of time to learn and make the adjustments that they need to.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The blueprint of beating Nico is to continually tie up with him to slow him down and be very selective and patient with your shots. Almost to the point that you are stalling. This is how Delgado usually beat him. Dance wrestled the same match on Sunday.

Jimmy's loss was puzzling as there was a couple of times I thought he should of been awarded the takedown due to have hip and leg control. The call at the end was also a toss up. However, I do think Chisko is a very good wrestler and this loss may not look as bad in the future.

I would rather them lose now, then lose in the post season. They have plenty of time to learn and make the adjustments that they need to.

Regarding your 1st paragraph, yes with one addition to recipe - the limited offense you do exhibit in neutral is always initiated off a "counter attack"....never initiate action in neutral especially if the Official shows a wilingness to recognize your stall tactics as legitimate wrestling (which it is not)....

 

[RoarLions1]

Difference of opinion.....the one thing with Dance, and the reason I don't see him making it through to the finals of either bracket, is the fact that he rarely "wins" the match even in his upsets - e.g., he almost always "wins ugly" and has very little firepower offensively imo. Just don't see this type of wrestler getting away with his unbecoming tactics and style in the tournament especially in the deeper brackets against top competition and being pushed to wrestle on his feet, or else, by the official.... Again, I could be wrong, just don't think he has enough of his own offense to ultimately control his own destiny in March.

32-4 last year with nearly a 40% bonus victory rate. Not sure that fits your "he almost always wins ugly".

I know what you intended by "through to the finals of either bracket"...but think about that for a second.

 

[dunkej01]

Is Franklin_restores...bushwood under a different handle? This back and forth has a similar feel to me.

Not that this would be an issue, just like to know what im dealing with here. As much as one can on the intranet.

 

[1stplacehawk]

32-4 last year with nearly a 40% bonus victory rate. Not sure that fits your "he almost always wins ugly".

I know what you intended by "through to the finals of either bracket"...but think about that for a second.

I'm never going to suggest that Dance is the most aggressive wrestler out there, but he has a weird style that people often mistake for stalling. Dance takes very few leg shots and almost exclusive works with elbow control up top. He made 4-5 legitimate scoring attempts in that match even though he wasn't shooting low singles. Outside of the first period, I didn't think he was stalling at all