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Noteworthy Results and Goldfish Games — Week of 1/20-1/22

How about a Marinelli/Joseph example? And yes, Alex choked at Nationals and Joseph has multiple titles but in the end, head to head, Marinelli had a better record. I’m assuming Cael knew Marinelli would lose in the quarters before he ever faced Vincenzo so he didn’t care about the regular season or Big 10 tourney losses.
Nope, that one didn’t play out, either. COVID nipped it in the bud just before Joseph could close out the series with 4 straight wins*.
😁


* I’m using the tried-and-true logic that if 2020 NCAA wasn’t canceled, Joesph
would have won that match and remained eligible to run the table in 2021, too.
 
Nope, that one didn’t play out, either. COVID nipped it in the bud just before Joseph could close out the series with 4 straight wins*.
😁


* I’m using the tried-and-true logic that if 2020 NCAA wasn’t canceled, Joesph
would have won that match and remained eligible to run the table in 2021, too.
Do you guys have a book somewhere that provides all the responses to refute any claim of Iowa superiority?
 
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I understood your question as such — certainly not a problem to ask it.
fair. i wouldn't be doing my job if i didn't point out there are counter examples. cory clark passing gulibon. murin over verkleeren. kemerer and hall ended as toss up, but hall came into college way ahead of him. just to be stubborn haha
 
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is there a gap currently? have they ever wrestled?
I think there is a gap and no I don’t think they have wrestled but their results speak for themselves. Arnold did lose to Zack Ryder this past summer though and as much as I love Ryder I think Barr is a bit better in my opinion. Arnold also has losses to Paddy Gallagher, Jack Blumer, Danny Wask. and very close wins including SV against Aurelius Dunbar who has never come close to cracking the lineup at PSU. He and Barr both have won and lost against Welsh. Barr going into the upper weight situation at PSU while Arnold goes to Iowa and yes I think the gap widens and I’m pretty sure recent history has continued to prove this
 
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Do you guys have a book somewhere that provides all the responses to refute any claim of Iowa superiority?
It’s Iowa Week — time for us fans to peak (or not).

I hope you can tell I was being facetious, though. I’ll admit I was wrong about in the past about Joseph-Marinelli, though, in proclaiming the 1st Marinelli win a fluke and the 2nd win to be the last.

That rivalry is exactly what stops me
short of “guaranteeing” Kerk passes Cass permanently. I 100% believe Kerk is a more talented wrestler, but there’s also something there telling me Cass is an individual matchup problem for him (like Bull was for Cenzo).
 
It’s Iowa Week — time for us fans to peak (or not).

I hope you can tell I was being facetious, though. I’ll admit I was wrong about in the past about Joseph-Marinelli, though, in proclaiming the 1st Marinelli win a fluke and the 2nd win to be the last.

That rivalry is exactly what stops me
short of “guaranteeing” Kerk passes Cass permanently. I 100% believe Kerk is a more talented wrestler, but there’s also something there telling me Cass is an individual matchup problem for him (like Bull was for Cenzo).
Totally knew you were being facetious. 😃😃
 
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fair. i wouldn't be doing my job if i didn't point out there are counter examples. cory clark passing gulibon. murin over verkleeren. kemerer and hall ended as toss up, but hall came into college way ahead of him. just to be stubborn haha
Hmm, I’m not sure I understand the thesis here. I thought the Barr-Arnold gap-widening subject was sparked by a body-type discussion, but maybe I’m mixed up.

I don’t recall any gap-widening discussions in favor of Gulibon, Verk, or Hall. I think >50% of the Gulibon and Verk talk here was negative, and so I don’t think many were even claiming those two wrestlers would be or stay ahead of their Iowa counterparts. On Hall, I think the majority opinion out of the gate was that Kemerer would never beat him — again, a different kind of debate.
 
I think there is a gap and no I don’t think they have wrestled but their results speak for themselves. Arnold has losses to Paddy Gallagher, Jack Blumer, Danny Wask. and very close wins including SV against Aurelius Dunbar who has never come close to cracking the lineup at PSU. He and Barr both have won and lost against Welsh. Barr going into the upper weight situation at PSU while Arnold goes to Iowa and yes I think the gap widens and I’m pretty sure recent history has continued to prove this
I'm sorry are you seriously including 4 matches from Arnold's freshman year of high school, half of which he won???

What was Barr up to during that time frame? Because I can tell you more recently than that he lost to Manny Rojas and Aiden Riggins. The only result I could find from his freshman year year was him taking 6th, losing 3x to guys I've never heard of.

Why stop there? Let's find some close matches from Arnold's 7th grade year lol
 
Hmm, I’m not sure I understand the thesis here. I thought the Barr-Arnold gap-widening subject was sparked by a body-type discussion, but maybe I’m mixed up.

I don’t recall any gap-widening discussions in favor of Gulibon, Verk, or Hall. I think >50% of the Gulibon and Verk talk here was negative, and so I don’t think many were even claiming those two wrestlers would be or stay ahead of their Iowa counterparts. On Hall, I think the majority opinion out of the gate was that Kemerer would never beat him — again, a different kind of debate.
The talk was Barr will widen the gap because he's at PSU, not because he's taller.

And total revisionist history on Gulibon. You guys were fired up when he came in and were pretty adamant he was going to be better than Clark.
 
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Do you guys have a book somewhere that provides all the responses to refute any claim of Iowa superiority?

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How about a Marinelli/Joseph example? And yes, Alex choked at Nationals and Joseph has multiple titles but in the end, head to head, Marinelli had a better record. I’m assuming Cael knew Marinelli would lose in the quarters before he ever faced Vincenzo so he didn’t care about the regular season or Big 10 tourney losses.
Martinez also has a winning H2H record vs. Cenzo. And yet ...
 
The talk was Barr will widen the gap because he's at PSU, not because he's taller.

And total revisionist history on Gulibon. You guys were fired up when he came in and were pretty adamant he was going to be better than Clark.
Ok. I was on a different board during Gulibon’s first season, and I recall things turning kind of ugly there in a hurry when he wasn’t meeting fan expectations. When I migrated here, it seemed there was a lot of hopeful discussion that he would be ahead of Clark (esp. after the BJC win), but still a lot of griping about confidence, hair, headgear, and hand size. And then he moved to 141 his last 2 seasons.
 
Ok. I was on a different board during Gulibon’s first season, and I recall things turning kind of ugly there in a hurry when he wasn’t meeting fan expectations. When I migrated here, it seemed there was a lot of hopeful discussion that he would be ahead of Clark (esp. after the BJC win), but still a lot of griping about confidence, hair, headgear, and hand size. And then he moved to 141 his last 2 seasons.
That all may be true, but that's two years after what I'm talking about when Gulibon beat him soundly in both all star matches.
 
The talk was Barr will widen the gap because he's at PSU, not because he's taller.

And total revisionist history on Gulibon. You guys were fired up when he came in and were pretty adamant he was going to be better than Clark.
Not everyone can become a National Champ, but being an Iowa fan, you already knew that.
 
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I'm sorry are you seriously including 4 matches from Arnold's freshman year of high school, half of which he won???

What was Barr up to during that time frame? Because I can tell you more recently than that he lost to Manny Rojas and Aiden Riggins. The only result I could find from his freshman year year was him taking 6th, losing 3x to guys I've never heard of.

Why stop there? Let's find some close matches from Arnold's 7th grade year lol
Fair enough. This goes back to the discussion on body type and if it’s a limiting factor for someone as short as Arnold. Looking over his results he has some better wins than I thought (Brayden Thompson who Barr lost to) but pretty much every match against a top level guy is a 1 point match or OT. That shows he has great defense but is also a very tough way to win consistently. Also there does seem to be a gap between the 2 in pretty much everyone’s thinking considering that Barr is ranked ahead of Arnold in every ranking I can find. Forums are for opinions and mine is that Barr is better now and is going to only pull away as they get into college and a part of that is because Arnold’s lack of height and length. There are of course tons of examples of those kinds of guys being extremely successful but most of them were elite in at least a couple other areas. While Arnold is very good and has possibly elite defense I don’t see him being good enough elsewhere to reach the top at his weight. Multiple time AA is likely but I would be shocked if he ever wins a national title and I absolutely think Barr wins one. Granted, I am as high on Barr as any recruit PSU has gotten in a long time. Kid is going to be special. And for the record Arnold lost to Wask last year
 
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And total revisionist history on Gulibon. You guys were fired up when he came in and were pretty adamant he was going to be better than Clark.
No kidding we were fired up to land a 4x PA state champ. Every program's fans would be.

And we were pretty excited when he beat Clark. Again, not irrational at the time even though it didn't continue.

Slush is right: the boards soured on him quickly and he became the fans' punching bag.
 
Better career wasn’t the topic. It was a Penn St wrestler never losing to an Iowa wrestler after beating them.
I didn't say better career. I implied that Cenzo won when it really mattered.

Sure, that's not quite the same as never losing again. But it fits the Marinelli example.
 
Did Nick Moore ever win a big match?
🤷‍♂️
I was just being silly.

Lee-Eierman had potential to include as an example in PSU’s favor, but that one is limited by a small sample size of Eierman being at Iowa and facing Lee.

Matt Brown - Mike Evans is in the ballpark. While Brown didn’t blank Evans after the former’s first victory, Brown did win their last 4 matches and had clearly separated by their senior season.

EDIT: Zain never lost to Sorensen, but we all know how that gap widened.
 
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Cael develops better than the rest. It's that simple. Sure, he's the best recruiter, but he has an eye for talent, but he molds it better than anyone.
My favorite thing about Cael (or least favorite, considering I’m a gopher fan) is that he never tries to fit a square peg in a round hole. He brings in good wrestlers, assesses their style, and coaches them to be good at what their body type and ability allows for them. You don’t see a ton of Penn state guys wrestle the same way.

Brandon Eggum coaches his guys to wrestle like Brandon Eggum. Same for the Brands brothers, John Smith, etc. they all tend towards the same patterns in terms of aggressiveness, types of attacks, positioning, etc.

Cael gets the best out of his guys. Always maximizing potential. Annoying as hell, imo.
 
Same amount of titles, 3x fewer losses, higher bonus rate, better wins...
Just sayin’ . . . you can see that no one bit on your first two scoops of chum. But you know “we like our guy” and someone is bound to pop up and bite, enabling you to attach a few barrels and take a ride.
 
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You know it doesn’t matter. Barr is a Penn St recruit and Arnold an Iowa recruit. Even if Arnold beats him 3 times in a row, like Cass over Kerk, Barr will always be getting better and Arnold will stay the same. Barr will finally beat him and based on that victory, Arnold will never, ever, beat him again. Did I do that right?
God, you are whiney this week.
 
You know it doesn’t matter. Barr is a Penn St recruit and Arnold an Iowa recruit. Even if Arnold beats him 3 times in a row, like Cass over Kerk, Barr will always be getting better and Arnold will stay the same. Barr will finally beat him and based on that victory, Arnold will never, ever, beat him again. Did I do that right?
Your time on this board has made you wise!
 
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The talk was Barr will widen the gap because he's at PSU, not because he's taller.

And total revisionist history on Gulibon. You guys were fired up when he came in and were pretty adamant he was going to be better than Clark.
Kennedy/Facundo will be interesting for a couple reasons. Kennedy wore him out at who's number 1. Where do the two stand now? Kennedy is also short and stocky compared to the tall and lanky Facundo. That match encompasses a couple of discussions we are having in this thread.
 
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