OT: 2018 Phillies Thread.....
- Thread starter Grant Green
- Start date
The defense is gutting them. Trade Nola for Ben Francisco while you can.
No leadership. Neshek was brutal on the wrap up. The men are tired and uninspired. The one good starter who should be the Cy, if not the MVP sees yet another game go by the wayside. Players are out of position. We don't have a catcher who can catch a pitched ball. The season is on the brink. The team picks up a .202 hitter who strikes out 180 times a year. The Phillies were lacking that I suppose. The body language is horrible. Where is the leadership? It ain't Gabe and it ain't Hoskins or Doobs or Franco. How old is Todd Pratt?
No leadership. Neshek was brutal on the wrap up. The men are tired and uninspired. The one good starter who should be the Cy, if not the MVP sees yet another game go by the wayside. Players are out of position. We don't have a catcher who can catch a pitched ball. The season is on the brink. The team picks up a .202 hitter who strikes out 180 times a year. The Phillies were lacking that I suppose. The body language is horrible. Where is the leadership? It ain't Gabe and it ain't Hoskins or Doobs or Franco. How old is Todd Pratt?
In 2017, after a horrible first half, the Phillies finished 37-38 after the All-Star break.
This year, they are 17-20 after the All-Star break.
...and 0-5 in one run games after the all-star break. Sucks for Nola, he should be a 20 game winner this year.
Good point by Corey Seidman. The Phils only carry 4 bench players when most team carry 5. That's hurt on several occasions this season.
It might be a good thing all these glaring weaknesses are being highlighted recently. Now the front office can work on this in the offseason.
If there is a bright side, still only 2.5 games out of the wild card.
There seems to be no position players in the minors that can help them. Quinn has done well but that's it. Defense is at the level of a bad little league team and as you say, catching has to be the worst in baseball. I just don't see any great players in the organization.
Well, they're out of gas. I wonder who the Sept call-ups will be?
The problem at this stage is that what got them there (the starting rotation) is down to Nola and nobody. Arrieta, Eflin, Vince, all these guys are getting shelled now because mainly, they can't get it over. They could be two up in the WC. But they're not and that would be the end of the show regardless. Never mind that they can't hit.
Last edited:
Yeah, this Phillies jalopy is struggling toward the finish line and breaking down in many ways. So far the attempted remedy has been a purchase of old, worn-out parts to try and plug in, but it's not working.
They were up to start the ninth when Quinn came in for defense....just needed 3 outs, unfortunately couldn't get them.
Probably shouldn't have made any moves...ever since they started tinkering with the clubhouse/lineup with Cabrerra, Ramos and now Bautista its been straight downhill. Maybe just let the young guys finish out what they started and see what happens as its obvious these supposed upgrades are not working.
Everyone knows the Phils were not expected to be in this position...so anything this year was gravy going forward to see who they can go hard after in the offseason. Harper, Machado are possible this offseason with Trout next and hopefully add another pitcher.
Also, maybe bring up Eickoff, he's pitched well in LHV in starts, so their is another arm that could help down the stretch this year and going forward.
THE 93 Phillies they plugged in pieces and parts that nobody wanted, but they played hard. They loved baseball had leadership on and off the field. As many little league like mistakes this team made this week alone, there's no accountability. It's ok you hit a hr last week you can strikeout the next 10 times up. The Phillies gifted 6 runs to the bats in 2 games. Throwing errors, misplayed balls leaving on a tag up to early they are suppose to be professional ball players. Quinn is playing the best ball right now, not perfect but the best, and used as only a fielding sub in the eighth inning.
May be true but Ramos was a good pick up. From what I've seen so far he's the only professional hitter on the team. Like a man among boys.
More to the farm system. This is the stuff you are supposed to learn before you get to the bigs. Much as I dislike the Cards these days, they have an organization in the minors that works. Everyone plays "the Cardinal Way" and they learn it early on.
One other issue is the one the Blue Jackets used to have trouble with. Too many AAA players trying to play big league ball--and not quite there yet. A lot of these guys probably could have used an extra half to full season in the minors to season their game. That said, it's nice to see the AAA IronPigs do so well this season. I watched this with the Indians here in Columbus--guys started learning how to win in AAA and it started to carry over into the big league team. Mind you, I realize that AAA often includes a lot of spare parts and often the biggest prospects are at Reading (AA). Looking forward to the day when there's players in AAA who are good enough for the bigs, but cannot get there quite yet because there's someone better ahead of them.
Hoping the Pigs can win the IL and get to the AAA Championship game, as it's here in Columbus.
Quinn came in for defensive reasons with a 1 run lead. A manager would be dumb not to make this move.
Sitting there last night, you had the feeling they were in trouble as soon as Santana launched that throw. I had no idea what he was attempting to do there. Given that there was not a force at the plate, no way he was going to get the runner on a tag play at the plate. Made it 3-2 and removed the cushion they might have had keeping it at 3-1.
Then you get to the 9th. I’m not sure what the strategy was there. You let Hunter face Harper then bring in Neshek to face Rendon. Rendon scares me a lot more than Harper to be honest so you have a guy pitch to Rendon that has no chance of throwing it past him. Just before he homered, I told my friend he was going to hit a rocket somewhere. You could see that one coming. Also, if it’s all about D in the 9th, then not sure what you were doing at 3rd with not bringing Franco in. Are you saying you like Cabrera more at 3rd than Franco?
I said it here long ago, they were playing with the closest margins possible and winning even with the bad fielding, disproportionate success in 1 run games, disproportionate scoring via the Home Run, etc. All this was bound to balance out a bit. Factor in some fatigue with the younger arms and this isn’t surprising. Disappointing but not surprising.
Then you get to the 9th. I’m not sure what the strategy was there. You let Hunter face Harper then bring in Neshek to face Rendon. Rendon scares me a lot more than Harper to be honest so you have a guy pitch to Rendon that has no chance of throwing it past him. Just before he homered, I told my friend he was going to hit a rocket somewhere. You could see that one coming. Also, if it’s all about D in the 9th, then not sure what you were doing at 3rd with not bringing Franco in. Are you saying you like Cabrera more at 3rd than Franco?
I said it here long ago, they were playing with the closest margins possible and winning even with the bad fielding, disproportionate success in 1 run games, disproportionate scoring via the Home Run, etc. All this was bound to balance out a bit. Factor in some fatigue with the younger arms and this isn’t surprising. Disappointing but not surprising.
Anybody complaining about Santana tonight? I thought not. He just hit a grand slam in the bottom of the 5th to put the Phils up 6-5. It was a nice shot to straight away center field.
Jake gave up two, 2-run HRs in the top of the 3rd.
Since then, Garcia, Arano, Nerris, and Seranthony have given up 2 runs. Seranthony looked good in the top of the 7th, though he did give up a double to Soto (what a great looking young player).
Joey Bats knocks in a run with a single (men on 1st and 2nd) in the bottom of the 7th, to put the Phils up 7-6.
Quinn with a 2-out triple in the bottom of the 8th, and Hoskins follows up with a double that just missed being a HR. Quinn scores, so the Phils take a 8-6 lead in the bottom of the 8th.
Tough night on the mound for Arrieta but his 2-run single with 2 outs in the second was big.
So Roman Quinn has basically staked a claim to be an everyday starter. Very good in the field and hitting lights out and a great base runner. What to do with Odubel now in the off season will be interesting. I don't think they will be able to trade Santana. He is so overpriced and Phils won't cut him and eat it I don't think. Just need to live with Santana for another couple of years and bat him more in the 6 or 7 spot not 4th. Wonder if Odubel has any trade value for essentially himself but a right handed hitter. I don't think Williams is an everyday player but would be a great platoon guy with a right handed bat in RF.
I really wish they would just get rid of Santana as it would make things soooo much easier. I then put Odubel in LF, Quinn in CF and Williams in RF(I disagree that he is not an everyday player as I think he is very good and will only get better with more reps)
The other advantage is Hoskins can play 1B and then if Quin did get injured as he is apt to do over his career Doobs can move back to CF.
Of course after next season when Trout comes back to Philly everything changes.
Sign Machado in the off season and trade Hernandez and move Kingery back to 2B.
Maybe add another front line starter as well to go with Nola and the youngsters who will hopefully continue to improve.
After last year, I wanted them to clear out 1B, 2B, & SS. They did move out their 1B, but then added Santana, which means we still have a major defensive liability in LF. Hernandez is a major league player at 2B, but Kingery is younger, and I need to know if Kingery & Crawford can play everyday 2B & SS, because, if they can't then I'm starting over in my infield.
I really like Quinn but they are going to have to decide if it's Odubel or Quinn. Quinn's injury history makes me lean to Odubel but he's so hot and cold.
So, if being strong up the middle is still the most apt description of a good baseball team, the Phillies have a long way to go. Nola is the only reliable pitcher, catching is atrocious, SS & 2B are still unsettled, and CF is, too.
It's tough to know what to do in this situation. Quinn has looked every bit the talent they thought he was several years ago. Alas, he's been injured so often during since then that most people had written him off. Herrera remains an enigma. He's so streaky as a hitter. When he's on, he may be the Phils best hitter. When he's off, he's terrible. His D is usually very good, though he makes the occasional Herrera boneheaded play. (His arm is not all that good, but his coverage is excellent.) Similarly, his base running is usually very good, but he makes multiple boneheaded plays on the bases each season.
So do you go with Quinn, only to have him re-injure himself and be out for a long stretch next year? Or do you go with Herrera, and grit your teeth whenever he goes into a funk, or makes a boneheaded play? Klentak gets the big bucks in part to make decisions like this.
One of the frustrations of this season is that so little was resolved with the INF. Early this season, Franco looked to be playing himself off the team. Batting 8th, or the efforts they made to change his batting stroke, or something else, caused a light to go on, and he's become a very good player. SS was an absolute mess. Crawford couldn't hit worth a damn to start the season, and then got injured. Kingery is a serviceable SS, but not an elite defensive SS, and his batting, after a hot start to the season, has been very disappointing. Many felt that Kingery was going to take over at 2nd for Hernandez, but Hernandez has finally stayed healthy for an entire season, and proven that he's a legit 2nd baseman. 1st base seemed to be resolved, with Hoskins, until Santana was signed in the offseason. While Santana's OBP has been good, his BA has been below what was expected.
I have no idea what the Phils will do.
I don’t think it’s too complicated actually barring a total upheaval. It all starts and ends with third base. If Franco stays put, then you sign Machado as your SS and make 2b an open competition between Cesar and Kingery. If you move Franco, then you sign Machado at 3b, retain Cesar, and have JP and Kingery as your SS competition. I don’t think you have much chance of not coming into next season with anyone other than Santana at 1st. I don’t see a problem with having a super sub whether it be Kingery or JP next year.
To me, the more interesting play is at C. I’d seriously think about Ramos. Alfaro needs a TON of work and I think Ramos adds another professional hitter to the lineup and allows for Alfaro to continue to develop.
In CF, I’d go Quinn. He could be your leadoff guy and is a good defensive player with a plus arm. Herrera is tradeable given his reasonable salary.
Edit- Tom, I don’t mean to sound that this is simple. I certainly respect your baseball acumen, I’m just thinking that absent something drastic, there is one extra player assuming they sign Manny and that player becomes a super sub.
Last edited:
Cabrera with the walk off HR in the 10th, Phils win 2-1. Braves lost, only 2 games back!
he seemed to insist on SS this year with the Os, even though most baseball men feel he's better at 3rd. He goes to the Dodgers, and due to injuries agreed to plays 3rd. Go figure.
Since joining the Dodgers, he's got a BA of .279, 9 HR, 23 RBIs, and a .356 OBP in 38 games (154 ABs).
Austin Davis gets busted by Cowboy Joe West for using a cheat sheet. Don't see that every day.
https://sports.yahoo.com/umpire-con...austin-davis-cheat-sheet-mound-045415852.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/umpire-con...austin-davis-cheat-sheet-mound-045415852.html
MLB sent a note to all teams today saying West was wrong and there was nothing wrong with using the card.
There’s a shock..... Fat Joe West was wrong. How the hell that guy kept his job all these years is amazing. He’s flat out awful
Angel Hernandez, CB Bucknor and Cowboy Joe..... the essence of incompetence
Joe is viewed as being a very good Balls and Strikes umpire, one of the best actually. He rubs people the wrong way but he’s certainly a character. He comes from an era when they viewed themselves as being part of the game rather than being just the hired help.
I’ll tell you though, one of the nicer guys I ever met was Al Barlick. For you Pirates fans, the Great One really liked him as well. Mr. Al told me once that Clemente gave his son one of his gloves and it was a prized possession.
In spite of their current four game lead, the Braves next three series are against Boston at home, followed by road series against Arizona (four games) and San Fran (who swept them in Atlanta earlier this year). With a little luck, the Phillies could foreseeably be in first within the next couple of weeks.
