I know the Phils exceeded expectations this year but dang, it's been frustrating. The Braves tried to give away the division but nobody else seemed interested in taking it. Now it seems third place is a real possibility.
OT: 2018 Phillies Thread.....
- Thread starter Grant Green
- Start date
that's certainly possible (3rd place).
as for tonight's 2nd game, the Phils loaded the bases in the bottom of the 9th, but Joey Bats flied out for the 3rd out, so it's extra innings.
And then Soto hits a solo HR off of Rios in the top of the 10th. Is this a tragedy or a travesty?
I'll go with tragedy. A travesty is when someone else treats you unfairly and denies you. The Phils can't blame anyone but themselves. Opportunities have been there but they haven't taken advantage when it mattered most.
I can’t even wrap my head around this team but I have one major takeaway front and center for the season. This approach of taking pitches really needs to be examined. They take a ton of pitches but strike out a ton as well so what does it accomplish. I guess you can say it gets you into the opponents bullpen but you still don’t score. So you K on a lot of 2-2 or 3-2 counts, big f’in deal.
I’ve got to get inside the numbers to see what they accomplished. You would think you would put up numbers if you have a ton of guys who walk a lot and get on base so you have a lot of baserunners when you do get hits but I don’t think the numbers will bear that out.
When it’s all said and done, I’ll dig into it but I think their approach is a bad one.
Piss poor.
I’ve got to get inside the numbers to see what they accomplished. You would think you would put up numbers if you have a ton of guys who walk a lot and get on base so you have a lot of baserunners when you do get hits but I don’t think the numbers will bear that out.
When it’s all said and done, I’ll dig into it but I think their approach is a bad one.
Piss poor.
This team is in absolute free fall. How many brutal losses does that make? Do we reach a point where they have not exceeded expectations? A sub .500 record with a 3rd place finish looks possible. They are now stuck on 1 series win in the last 14. That almost sounds impossible.
As of right now, what excites you going into next season besides Nola and Hoskins? They will have no choice but to make a strong play for Harper.
As of right now, what excites you going into next season besides Nola and Hoskins? They will have no choice but to make a strong play for Harper.
so in the bottom of the 10th, the Phils get two meek outs. But then they get back-to-back walks, which brings Hernandez to the plate. He flies out to right field, to end the game, as they lose 7-6.
Phils are 11-22 in their last 33 games. Teams with records like that do not generally win pennants, or even get into the playoffs as a wild card.
Phils are 11-22 in their last 33 games. Teams with records like that do not generally win pennants, or even get into the playoffs as a wild card.
Finding ways to lose. Nats end up with 6 hits and 7 runs; the Phillies with 13 hits and 6 runs.
It's discouraging to see division rivals with young stars like Acuna for the Braves and Soto for the Nats while the Phillies try to cobble together a lineup of flawed pieces.
The guys on the staff nibble an awful lot instead of challenging guys. Leads to too many free bases. It's been like that a lot all year. You don't get to hear much from anybody but Gabe who gives the usual manager spiel but what is the position of the pitching coaches regarding their approach? I have no idea. I'd rather a guy beat you than watch walk after walk, wild pitch after hit batter.
You have a staff fleshed out with guys who really have no defined role, or their role changes week to week if not game to game. Are they having a better year than people thought, yeah. OK, well you strike when the iron is hot. You can't take anything for granted regarding next year because nothing is cast in stone. Who knows what next year is going to look like. Right now there are probably no more than four players on the club I would consider unmovable. This was a team not that long ago who were among the best records in the NL. Is it regression to the mean, or can they be a playoff club, I don't know but there are very few superstars on this team, and far more head cases, that's certain.
You have a staff fleshed out with guys who really have no defined role, or their role changes week to week if not game to game. Are they having a better year than people thought, yeah. OK, well you strike when the iron is hot. You can't take anything for granted regarding next year because nothing is cast in stone. Who knows what next year is going to look like. Right now there are probably no more than four players on the club I would consider unmovable. This was a team not that long ago who were among the best records in the NL. Is it regression to the mean, or can they be a playoff club, I don't know but there are very few superstars on this team, and far more head cases, that's certain.
Disgusted right now, especially with last night's loss, which was all on Kapler and his stupidity with SAD.
I'm with Tailgate, though. I get how they wanted a bat in the lineup that Carlos Santana provides. But not at the expense of moving Hoskins to the outfield. And then this biz of taking pitches and striking out. It has absolutely crippled the offense, which I thought was a team strength going into the season. And effed with a lot of players who now can't do anything except fail miserably and make the offense unwatchable.
Give me Hoskins at first and an outfield of Williams in left, Herrera in center and Altherr in right and let's see what we have. That's what this season was supposed to be all about, right? I know some will say, that, yeah, and those outfielders have all been flops. And I'm saying maybe it's because of this taking pitches philosophy.
Which brings me to another thing: why do people write off Obudel and Williams so quickly. Obudel is only 26 and has a TRACK RECORD. A pretty good TRACK RECORD. But so many people want to discard him like it was nothing. And Williams had a pretty decent rookie season in 2017. Decent enough to pencil in as a starter in '18. Notice that both of these guys were in the organization dog house from the get-go. Obudel didn't start the first game. Remember that? You don't start your best seasoned player in the first game! WTF!!! (Meanwhile, white boys Rhys Hoskins and Steve Kingery (fat contract before he officially sees a major league pitch) can do no wrong.) Yeah, let's pay Kingery millions and do a bobble head for Golden Boy Hoskins.
And still another thing: why trade Galvis? Steady good fielding shortstop. Yeah, I know he has flaws with the stick. Doesn't walk. Hey TPTB: NEITHER DOES KINGERY.
Remember that game in San Diego a month or so ago. Phillies-killer Galvis -- the new Asdrubel Cabrera, only he carries a glove -- came up with the bases loaded vs. Arrieta. I KNEW what was going to happen and I KNEW it would mark the beginning of the end. And it was. SLAM.
Meanwhile, what does Klentak do? He brings in a lot of old guys for the stretch run. Now we have guys who haven't played for the Phillies all season taking at-bats away from the Nick Williamses of the world. Kapler loves all this because he can make non-brilliant game-changing decisions in the second inning -- and end up with Pedro Effing Florimon playing SS.
I do have to say I liked the signing of Arrieta. Figured he could eat innings. which he has. Didn't think he would be the Jake Arrieta of 2015, but he could eat innings. And he'd have more wins if Kapler knew how to run a pitching staff.
OK.
Done with rant.
I'm with Tailgate, though. I get how they wanted a bat in the lineup that Carlos Santana provides. But not at the expense of moving Hoskins to the outfield. And then this biz of taking pitches and striking out. It has absolutely crippled the offense, which I thought was a team strength going into the season. And effed with a lot of players who now can't do anything except fail miserably and make the offense unwatchable.
Give me Hoskins at first and an outfield of Williams in left, Herrera in center and Altherr in right and let's see what we have. That's what this season was supposed to be all about, right? I know some will say, that, yeah, and those outfielders have all been flops. And I'm saying maybe it's because of this taking pitches philosophy.
Which brings me to another thing: why do people write off Obudel and Williams so quickly. Obudel is only 26 and has a TRACK RECORD. A pretty good TRACK RECORD. But so many people want to discard him like it was nothing. And Williams had a pretty decent rookie season in 2017. Decent enough to pencil in as a starter in '18. Notice that both of these guys were in the organization dog house from the get-go. Obudel didn't start the first game. Remember that? You don't start your best seasoned player in the first game! WTF!!! (Meanwhile, white boys Rhys Hoskins and Steve Kingery (fat contract before he officially sees a major league pitch) can do no wrong.) Yeah, let's pay Kingery millions and do a bobble head for Golden Boy Hoskins.
And still another thing: why trade Galvis? Steady good fielding shortstop. Yeah, I know he has flaws with the stick. Doesn't walk. Hey TPTB: NEITHER DOES KINGERY.
Remember that game in San Diego a month or so ago. Phillies-killer Galvis -- the new Asdrubel Cabrera, only he carries a glove -- came up with the bases loaded vs. Arrieta. I KNEW what was going to happen and I KNEW it would mark the beginning of the end. And it was. SLAM.
Meanwhile, what does Klentak do? He brings in a lot of old guys for the stretch run. Now we have guys who haven't played for the Phillies all season taking at-bats away from the Nick Williamses of the world. Kapler loves all this because he can make non-brilliant game-changing decisions in the second inning -- and end up with Pedro Effing Florimon playing SS.
I do have to say I liked the signing of Arrieta. Figured he could eat innings. which he has. Didn't think he would be the Jake Arrieta of 2015, but he could eat innings. And he'd have more wins if Kapler knew how to run a pitching staff.
OK.
Done with rant.
Does anyone think Harper wants to play for this coach? He runs the team like a fantasy team. William is constantly replaced for over the hill bats. Let the young guys hit and learn the layoffs are gone, out of reach. The blame lies solely on Klentak and Kapler.
I agree with some of your comments.......
IMO..Kapler needs to go, he just over manages every situation and has burnt out the bullpen due to constantly making moves to just to do something instead of letting baseball players play! He NEVER bunts to move runners and get guys in and that goes to their approach at the plate of always going for the 2 or 3 run homer instead of playing the game. Guess what it doesn't work when you have guys who strike out at a high rate and they constantly get into counts that are not favorable...again approach.
Kingery needs to play 2nd base not SS...they have so many players out of position its ridiculous. Signing Santana made no sense. Nick Williams is a solid option in right, IMO...Herrara can be great for a time, but he just makes too many bone headed plays for me and has a poor arm and at the plate its just crazy as he will give up pitches before the pitcher throws or he knows he's swinging no matter what...its sooooo frustrating! If and its a big if Quinn could stay healthy I love him in CF and then go sign a big Free Agent for the other OF spot or make a trade to get Trout a season early from LA. Sign Manny at SS and let Franco play 3rd with Rhys at 1B. Go get another front line starter to go with Nola and now you have something.
This is why I mentioned previously that the only solution for this franchise is to hire Theo Epstein. I know it will never happen. The organization is incapable.
Did you know that his grandfather and great uncle were both Penn Staters??
Be interesting to see how the players like Kapler. I don't agree with many of his moves, but he is also a first time MLB coach and there have been a lot of coaches that changed in the off season after their first year with a little experience. So keeping Kapler comes down to two things for me....(1) do the players like playing for him, if the answer to that question is no or even that he is 'ok' then he is gone. Players have to openly come out in interviews post season that they like playing for Gabe and it has to be a majority of them. (2) here out what Gabe says he has to change about his coaching for the next year. If gabe says nothing and that his stats tell him things should work out, then he is gone. if he genuinely appears that he has learned some things and spells out a couple of major changes and a few minor ones, then again, in combination with #1 above being a resounding yes, then i keep him.
My gripe with Herrera is that he doesn’t maximize his skill sets. He is said to have outstanding hand eye and when he first was signed, he had the look of an annual .300 hitter with potential to make a run at a batting title. That involved him using the whole field and being a gap hitter. Somewhere along the line, he adopted the pull hitters mentality, wanting to highlight his ability to pull and drive the ball. He became a completely different hitter at that time.
This offseason I start with two players, Herrera and Alfaro and tell them that if they don’t change their approach, you are moving on. It has worked somewhat with Franco who has lifted the ball better and avoided hitting down through the ball given his bad foot speed. Franco seems to also have hit the other way much better this year. I really think if he continues to work hard that he’s a 30-90-.275 guy year in year out. Herrera needs to go back to what he was. Alfaro has been a DISASTER this year. He has incredible strength but still swings as hard as possible. He has put on ridiculous batting practice shows in Clearwater, hitting the ball from the Complex over the concourse and onto the field of play at Spectrum Field (if you are familiar with the set up). This is Thome like sheer power. These are 450 footers. He needs to simply focus on dialing it back and making contact using his sheer strength better. He can hit it out anywhere in any stadium, but it will require a different approach. Don’t even get me started with his defensive catching.
These two guys can be productive but they need to change. It will require a lot of work. If they aren’t receptive, I’d seriouslt consider moving on.
How can you honestly evaluate talent with the micro-managing of the roster. If you're a role player you like it, but if you should be a regular like Williams you hate it. Consistency would help the young players gain experience to maximize a skill set. Harper doesn't try out a new routine and stance every time up to bat. He does the same routine. If it works don't change it but if change is your mantra you'll never succeed.
It’s not only that, it’s the ridiculous juggling of the lineup. Franco will end the season as your top average hitter but he has hit 8th a lot to lengthen the lineup. Plus he’s a producer. Ridiculous. Every player has been all over the lineup. You develop skill sets depending where you hit in the lineup. How he expects development when you are constantly changing is beyond me. I understand some movements depending on how guys are going but what he has done is mind boggling.
I’m old and obviously outdated. Maybe the game is that different, but you scratch your head a lot watching this mad scientist.
To quote the great Yogi Berra: If people don’t want to come out to the ball park, nobody is going to stop them.
So trade for the best player in the game, sign a top 5 player, and then sign an ace even though they never hit free agency? Ok got it!
As stated, the lineup juggling has been epic. I would love to know how many different lineups they have used. I haven’t seen the same one two days in a row in weeks. It is obvious now they should have just went with the young guys in a more consistent lineup and let the chips fall.
The Phils are going to finish in 3rd place with a sub .500 record. They did not exceed any expectations. Folks, no one went to the ballpark this year. No one will be signing up for season tickets next year. What's changed? More of the same. I gave Kapler a long string. Someone please tell me I'm crazy. Oh yea, one series win in the last 14.
Yeah, actually they did exceed any reasonable expectations. They are already better than last year and were in the hunt through August. While I'm not pleased with the almost total collapse now, it's not surprising as many of these players have not played this many games in a season for a big league club and the second or third time around, guys start figuring out your pitching staff.
What a disappointing August and September after such a promising 1st half+ of the season. The buttons being pushed aren't working, so the response has been to push more buttons and at a faster pace?
What to do in the off-season? Start with a change at manager? Do major roster changes? Hit the free agent market hard?
What to do in the off-season? Start with a change at manager? Do major roster changes? Hit the free agent market hard?
Just way too many strikeouts in the lineup. The old fashioned approach of getting up on the plate and up on the bat handle when down in the count is gone.
Strong up the middle is still a good blueprint. They have Nola and an ageing Arrieta. Catching with Alfaro and Knapp was the worst I’ve ever seen. SHort and 2B? Unsettled. They should play Kingery and Crawford everyday to see what they have - this should have been done April 1st. I don’t know what they have in Odubel, he’s totally collapsed since June. Apparently, other than Quinn, there are no position players in the minors who are ready.
Theo Epstein is the only answer, IMHO.
It would be one thing to say they're exceeding expectations if they were playing well and simply unable to make up ground. That's not the case. They're playing .250 ball for the past quarter of a season. They're 2-9 in September and in six of those losses they put up one run. But I'm willing to agree they're tired. There has to be some explanation. Other young teams win and can sustain. The Rays were young in 08 and won a pennant coming out of the toughest division in MLB.
The bullpen conditioning should be among the tops in baseball given all the miles they've racked up running in to pitch.
The bullpen conditioning should be among the tops in baseball given all the miles they've racked up running in to pitch.
Maybe Haseley from this top 30 list, but I don't see much else soon.
http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=phi
No. Hank Aaron Altherr is back. All BS aside though, he had one hell of a game tonight. So good for him. Then again Gabe could sit him for the next three games.
Very seldom do I say that I’d be happy to walk to the plate and give it a shot. But that one soft tosser tonight, I would have felt confident that I would have made contact. Guy wasn’t throwing 70. I could hit that.
Last edited:
HOPEFULLY the Phillies can suck it up and hang in there to get to at least 81 wins. To not get there would be very very disappointing.
It's already disappointing, and I'm not bailing but this club was a game behind the Cubs for best record in NL in July. They went off tonight and beat a club who had a catcher pitching at the end, fair enough we did similar this year. This on the heels of a 2-9 run in Sept. I offer this, an AP story but tells the tale...If the Phillies were contenders, they'd be contending. They were in 1st place for about a month. Awesome. I guess that's something. They are dead to every team in the division which should be the concern.
https://apnews.com/96b1e7d9112a40af9fc153f45a2f29db
From the article:
“It’s not one thing,” Kapler said. “It’s a collection of many, many things. And to try to boil it down to one thing doesn’t appreciate all the variables.”
Here’s a start. The Phillies can’t hit, can’t protect leads and play poor defense.
RIght and since all the guys now are swinging from their ass trying to yard everything, one can see that strikeouts are up, HRs are up, BA and OPS are down. For a team that can't hold leads, giant solo bombs aren't helping. I watched the game tonight when it was 8-1 thinking we need another TD.
Can this guy pitch? Can that guy pitch? Are we over his throws from yesterday and he's on the shelf? Who can we put in? Certain guys can only throw one pitch to a lefty if there are two on and one out after the 6th. Other guys can only throw curveballs if it's a right handed hitter on grass.
Look at the standings and cut the shiz.
Can this guy pitch? Can that guy pitch? Are we over his throws from yesterday and he's on the shelf? Who can we put in? Certain guys can only throw one pitch to a lefty if there are two on and one out after the 6th. Other guys can only throw curveballs if it's a right handed hitter on grass.
Look at the standings and cut the shiz.
Last edited:
