OT: diluting poison (for tick tubes)

[nitanee123]

At the advice of one of the members on this board regarding treating a lawn for ticks, I am in the process of making 'tick tubes' with the poison Permithren. To make a long story short, I read online that I should use a solution with 5% Permithren. I purchased the Permithren on Amazon and it is 10%.

So my stupid question of the day is as follows: If I were take 1 part water to 1 part 10% Permithren, would that make a solution of 5% Permithren.

 

[PSU2UNC]

At the advice of one of the members on this board regarding treating a lawn for ticks, I am in the process of making 'tick tubes' with the poison Permithren. To make a long story short, I read online that I should use a solution with 5% Permithren. I purchased the Permithren on Amazon and it is 10%.

So my stupid question of the day is as follows: If I were take 1 part water to 1 part 10% Permithren, would that make a solution of 5% Permithren.

In theory, yes. Assuming the percentage listed on the bottle is by volume (which is almost certainly is), then a 1:1 dilution will decrease the concentration by 50% (i.e. make 10% into 5%)

If the percentage is listed as by weight (I can't imagine that it is), then the calculation is trickier.

Three suggestions:

1) Wear gloves and protective eyewear when working with this (and all pesticides).

2) Permithren is actually quite insoluble in water. You'll need to mix the newly added water VERY well with the store bought solution.

3) Watch the weather carefully. Don't apply this (or any other pesticide) if rain is in the forecast.

(Not trying to be preachy, but I do work with pesticide pollution chemistry, among other things).

 

[nitanee123]

In theory, yes. Assuming the percentage listed on the bottle is by volume (which is almost certainly is), then a 1:1 dilution will decrease the concentration by 50% (i.e. make 10% into 5%)

If the percentage is listed as by weight (I can't imagine that it is), then the calculation is trickier.

Three suggestions:

1) Wear gloves and protective eyewear when working with this (and all pesticides).

2) Permithren is actually quite insoluble in water. You'll need to mix the newly added water VERY well with the store bought solution.

3) Watch the weather carefully. Don't apply this (or any other pesticide) if rain is in the forecast.

(Not trying to be preachy, but I do work with pesticide pollution chemistry, among other things).

Thanks for the advice. I read on another site that I can use the 10% Permithren as is. Would you recommend cutting it, or using as is?

 

[hagberg]

Thanks for the advice. I read on another site that I can use the 10% Permithren as is. Would you recommend cutting it, or using as is?

You should be OK with 10%, though it'll cost you twice as much. But I don't know of any studies about the effect of a higher concentrate of permethrin on mice (who will be, after all, the conveyors of it). Assuming you are making the cotton ball version of tick tubes, be sure to let them dry completely before deploying them.

And as PSU2UNC noted, be sure to wear rubber gloves, eye protection and even a mask for your mouth and nose so you don't inhale any vapors. Also, do all your work in a very well ventilated area, preferably outdoors.

 

[NJPSU]

According to the Wiki, it doesn't sound that toxic or harmful to humans.

Permethrin, sold under the brand name Nix among others, is a medication and insecticide.[1][2] As a medication it is used to treat scabies and lice.[3] It is applied to the skin as a cream or lotion.[1] As an insecticide it can be sprayed on clothing or mosquito nets such that the insects that touch them die.[2]

Side effects include rash and irritation at the area of use.[3] Use during pregnancy appears to be safe. It is approved for use in people over the age of two months. Permethrin is in pyrethroid family of medications. It works by disrupting the function of the neurons of lice and scabies.[1]

 

[83wuzme]

You should be OK with 10%, though it'll cost you twice as much. But I don't know of any studies about the effect of a higher concentrate of permethrin on mice (who will be, after all, the conveyors of it). Assuming you are making the cotton ball version of tick tubes, be sure to let them dry completely before deploying them.

And as PSU2UNC noted, be sure to wear rubber gloves, eye protection and even a mask for your mouth and nose so you don't inhale any vapors. Also, do all your work in a very well ventilated area, preferably outdoors.

I kinda wonder what this stuff will do to the mice ?

 

[hagberg]

I kinda wonder what this stuff will do to the mice ?

Apparently nothing as long as whatever you treat is allowed to dry completely. Seems like the only mammal it messes up are cats, for some reason. Don't let them near it, as I guess it causes neurological damage.

BTW, if you dilute that stuff to treat your clothes (no smell/staining/etc after it dries), you have to dilute it to POINT five percent (1:19 ratio).

 

[83wuzme]

Apparently nothing as long as whatever you treat is allowed to dry completely. Seems like the only mammal it messes up are cats, for some reason. Don't let them near it, as I guess it causes neurological damage.

BTW, if you dilute that stuff to treat your clothes (no smell/staining/etc after it dries), you have to dilute it to POINT five percent (1:19 ratio).

Just going to think this through. If Permethrin is neurotoxic to cats and cats eat mice, could we end up with a bigger mouse population ? I've got a Bobcat at my place and I don't want lose her.

 

[Obliviax]

I thought you were talking about Jabrill Peppers and his diluted sample.

 

[hagberg]

Just going to think this through. If Permethrin is neurotoxic to cats and cats eat mice, could we end up with a bigger mouse population ? I've got a Bobcat at my place and I don't want lose her.

The mice don't eat it, they carry the dried cotton balls back to line their nests. Mice are one of the chief transport modes for ticks, especially the nymphs. They latch on to the mice as they're foraging and are carried back to the nest. Contact with the Permethrin, even though it's dried in the cotton, apparently kills them almost instantly.