All we know is what Courtney claims he said. Didn't he have some conflicts of interest?
OT: FYI, JZ says Newsweek article is still a go. (edit: Story now spiked)
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I saw 6 names outed for the first time, and 17 monetary settlement values in the article. My understanding is that information was all protected under non-disclosure agreements.
I'm guessing PSU will be facing a new round of lawsuits and/or financial claims for breaking those NDA's.
I'm guessing PSU will be facing a new round of lawsuits and/or financial claims for breaking those NDA's.
Yeah, that could become a problem. Somebody leaked a lot of info to Cipriano.
It's ultimately irrelevant to the bigger story how much each specific victim was paid anyway. That's the sort of detail Ziegler would put in there just to "stick it to" those victims because he doesn't believe they really are victims.
You mean all the folks w/ FB pictures of themselves in their PSU garb & great seats @ the Beav? Who is sticking it to who again?
So you're mad that they can afford great seats at Beaver Stadium?
It's their money to spend. As long as they aren't engaging in illegal business, it's none of my (or your, or Ziegler's, or anybody's) business how they spend it.
As regards whether Paterno is less guilty than mainstream folk think (isn't that what Ziegler was purporting to prove in his article?), it's irrelevant as to whether Aaron Fisher got paid $1, $100,000, $1MM, $10MM, or $1 Billion.
Ziegler just threw that exact number in there because he has an on-going "blood feud" with Aaron Fisher. Ditto for the other folk he thinks are not victims.
If that happened, Fisher acted inappropriately. That sounds like a crime.
So, the correct reaction for Ziegler is to pursue criminal charges. Publishing his settlement is not the correct reaction.
A 51-year-old adult (e.g., Ziegler) should know that.
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Courtney's counsel was a bag of donuts.
Wendell Courtney, a former lawyer for Penn State, testified at the trial. Courtney served on a team representing Penn State starting in 1980 and took over as leader for the team in 1995, the same year Spanier assumed the presidency of Penn State.
Courtney received a call from Schultz requesting legal advice. The call involved a report of what Schultz described to him as “horseplay in the showers that made a graduate assistant coach uncomfortable,” Courtney testified.
Courtney testified he imagined what he thought was kids sliding in the showers from what he was told by Schultz, who mentioned no allegations of sexual abuse when he called Courtney. He further testified about Sandusky's reputation in State College.
"He goofed around with kids all the time," Courtney said. "He appeared as an affection fatherly figure for the kids in The Second Mile."
Schultz told the jury that he told Spanier in 2001 that Sandusky was "horsing around" with a child, mirroring a comment made by Paterno to him. "Horsing around" was something Schultz knew Sandusky for.
"Jerry was always horsing around," Schultz said.
One common thread weaved through the testimony of any witness to talk about Spanier’s knowledge of the 2001 incident. No one on the stand said Spanier was told the incident in 2001 was sexual in nature.
Spanier’s conviction closes only one of the chapters in the Sandusky child sex abuse case at Penn State. Spanier still faces a sentencing hearing, the possible penalty could land him in jail for five years and get him fined $10,000. His legal team said they would appeal the conviction.
Sandusky had the first of his second set of appeal hearings, this time with a new judge, on the same day Spanier received his conviction. Sandusky has two more hearings in May. Sandusky is serving 30 to 60 years in prison after receiving a conviction on 45 counts of child sex abuse.
Spanier has two civil lawsuits, one of which is pending scheduling. Spanier filed a lawsuit seeking damages from Penn State in February 2016, as previously reported by The Daily Collegian. Penn State counter-sued, accusing that when Spanier failed to disclose his knowledge of prior incidents involving Jerry Sandusky, he violated his duty to Penn State, according to court documents.
Penn State demanded Spanier repay over $6 million in compensation for his alleged violations, as previously reported by The Daily Collegian.
1. Sandusky was most certainly not considered a model citizen at that time, rumors were running rampant
2. MM's claims predate any involvement by OAG or Ganim.
I listened to Ziegler on Iron Head's show this morning. He discussed Sue Paterno's statement, said he believed McQueary sat on the info for several months before talking to Paterno about it, said JS had a deformity and testosterone deficiency that make some of the accusations very suspect, that about half the victims had criminal records, that the U paid something like $118M, that even the U didn't believe some of the victims' stories, but paid them anyway.
Part II is tomorrow.
Part II is tomorrow.
Ziegler can't be making this stuff up-
Ziegler: Dr. Barry Bender is now apparently out of prison. I don’t know if you are aware of that or not…
Fisher: That asshole? They should have shot him.
Ziegler: Understood. My understanding is that D.J. was one of the so-called “Bender Boys,” is that accurate?
Fisher: Ya.
Ziegler: I also wanted to confirm that he was one of those who got a settlement in that case…
Fisher: A settlement?
Ziegler: A financial settlement.
Fisher: (chuckles) (inaudible) I didn’t know there was any.
Ziegler: Well, can you think of any reason why his sister would have told people that her mother helped get him a settlement in that case?
Fisher: His sister?
Ziegler: Yes. Dawn.
Fisher: No, I couldn’t imagine why… I don’t know, to be honest with you (chuckles).
That may be the dumbest thing I ever heard. Sandusky was the founder of the largest children’s charity in PA and was being given awards by Congress. What rumors? If you heard rumors in 2001, why didn’t you say something?
MM claimed he saw Sandusky showering with a boy, and maybe described slapping sounds. But it didn’t become sexual assault until the OAG got involved.
So everybody knew in 98,99 and the cops let Sandusky off? Wow.
If rumors were really going around, someone would have discovered an email on a Penn State work account. It’s not like people don’t use work email to tell dirty jokes, spread rumors, and for other nefarious activities. Shouldn’t none other than Frank Fina know that very well.
I guess that’s the way it is with this whole thing. Everybody can kind of pick and choose what they believe or doubt whatever they want to doubt. Assuming Courtney was not lying or misremembering (which is certainly a possibility 12 years later) then he counseled to make a report. And they didn’t.
Edit: I will add that Courtney brings up a major problem with this case. Everybody was intertwined in some sort of incestous relationship. Courtney knew Sandusky. Probably not the best one to be giving legal counsel when he personally knows the guy your are seeking legal counsel from. Members of the board were heavily involved with Sandusky’s charity, probably not the best group to be in charge of settlements for university the moment they decided to protect TSM in the discussions. Harmon apparently was Sandusky’s neighbor. Surma didn’t like Joe for apparently countless reasons and was placed in a position to help dictate his fate. Joyner was able to get a high paying job out of the fiasco at a time when he was apparently in tough financial straits. On and on and on..... The conflicts of interest are kind of baffling.
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The thing that still bothers me is Wendell Courtney's public remarks that nothing on God's green earth would have stopped him from reporting even a hint of possible child sexual abuse, and that this was not that... only to later testify that he recommended reporting to DPW.
Edit: Just catching up on this thread, looks like I'm not the first to be irked about this.
He was a double agent IMO.....my memory was he did pro bono work for TSM....denied it later. Wife was very involved with TSM.
We definitely cannot rule out Courtney misremembering what he recommended or simply lying to cover his ass. But another important thing is Schultz talked to Courtney before he and Curley talked with McQueary. Everybody assumes McQueary told Curley and Schultz a more graphic version of what he told Joe, but what if MM is simply lying again? My theory is that he wanted to “abort the mission” after learning he didn’t get Kenny Jackson’s job.
No, the majority of people believe that MM told C/S/P about sexual assault and they covered it up in order to protect football.
I’m not sure how many that have closely followed this really believe McQuesry was graphic with anybody he told at the time. Even michnit, osprey, etc, I am sure do not really believe that. Perhaps dukie, but obviously there would be reasons for him to believe so.
Courtney has had hard info from the beginning.
During his tenure as outside counsel, Courtney would also have spent time advising the university president.
“Spanier would not go across the street without getting Wendell Courtney’s permission,” said Jim Bryant, a longtime Centre County attorney who has opposed Penn State in cases.
Most of the prosecutors’ charges hinge on being able to prove the former administrators were made to believe Sandusky had possibly engaged in sexual assault. According to the grand jury presentment, Schultz and Curley were briefed first by Paterno, who had heard about the incident from McQueary. Courtney’s legal research and two conferences with Schultz came later on the same day the administrators spoke with Paterno. Schultz and Curley talked with McQueary about a week later.
In Sandusky’s trial, jurors acquitted him of the count of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse with regards to the 2001 victim but convicted him on counts of indecent assault, unlawful contact with minors, corruption of minors and endangering the welfare of children. That victim settled a civil suit with Penn State.
The perjury charge for Schultz and Curley in particular deals with what they were thinking and knew at the time compared to what they told the grand jury years later. As mentioned above, Kline considers Courtney to be one of very few people who possibly know what they knew and what they were thinking when first briefed about the shower incident by Paterno.
Anthony Lubrano views the situation as an administrator checking up on what he heard and a lawyer properly counseling him because none believed based on what they had been told that any of Sandusky’s behavior rose to criminality.
“He did exactly what he was supposed to do,” Lubrano said. “He chose not to tell the full board any of the particulars because they didn’t believe something happened was criminal. Courtney’s name got dragged through the mud.
“Those hours could be important to the extent of (getting into the) guys’ minds that were charged and what they were thinking at the time. I’m one of those people who doesn’t believe there’s a case against them.”
When Courtney spoke to the media in November 2011, he acknowledged to the New York Times he was briefed on a 1998 investigation of Sandusky that was later dropped by local prosecutors. In an interview with the Centre Daily Times, Courtney said he was not made aware of the 1998 incident or the 2001 shower incident. And if he had been notified of sexual abuse allegations by Sandusky, he said, he would have told them to notify the authorities.
He saw whatever he saw in the shower and he felt it reached the level to take it up the chain. Exactly what it was he saw, I don't know. C,S,P were most likely being truthful in their description of what he told them, I firmly believe that. As rumors started growing even more the story took on more and more of a sexual nature. It grew. This happened prior to any involvement from the OAG
I think you have just been guarded in what you disclose, which causes others to question you. Seems you are referring to the rumors surrounding his activity at Central Mountain and AF. I thought in your previous post, you were referring to Schultz and Curley knowing much more about JS
They were aware of any rumors, certainly. Should they have been more proactive? Absolutely. Did what they were told warrant that in and of itself, I dont believe so. Should they have looked at the big picture and expected the worst, yes.
Here's what I've never understood. Why did JS volunteer at a HS all the way in Lock Haven? How many High Schools did he drive by to volunteer/coach on his way there?
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