Courtney's wife Linette served on The Second Mile board for a number of years. They donated regularly. Conflict of interest.
OT: FYI, JZ says Newsweek article is still a go. (edit: Story now spiked)
- Thread starter MtNittany
- Start date
there are many things in this saga that are not well understood....
Because Courtney planted the info for discussion.
Courtney told The New York Times in 2011 that he was never told of Sandusky engaging in sexual misconduct with young children, and if he had "any idea that there was even remotely improper conduct with children on any day since the beginning of time, nothing in the world would have kept me from being absolutely certain that it was reported to the police immediately. That is my duty."
Neither Courtney nor Schultz lawyer Tom Farrell responded to messages seeking comment Thursday.
Courtney said in the deposition that even though the meeting was noted in the university-commissioned 2012 report on the Sandusky scandal by a team led by former FBI director Louis Freeh, no one from Penn State has ever asked him about what he told Schultz.
"Perhaps the reason why (Penn State) avoided making the inquiry was because it knew the answer to the question," McQueary's lawyers wrote.
The Freeh report said Courtney emailed Schultz in January 2011, a decade later, to say his successor as the school's top lawyer had called to ask him what he knew "about JS issue I spoke with you and Tim about circa eight years ago. I told her what I remembered. She did not offer why she was asking, nor did I ask her." Courtney declined to be interviewed by the Freeh team.
"Penn State engaged the Freeh firm to investigate the matter and, as set forth in Freeh's report, Courtney declined to be interviewed by Freeh upon advice of counsel," Penn State spokesman Lawrence Lokman said in an email Thursday. "So any implication that Penn State did not want the benefit of Courtney's input is simply not correct."
I remember it clearly. And at that time I was just a lurker following PSU sports. As I've indicated a few times here, of all of those supposedly with inside information, you're by far the most credible.
I was attending PSU at that time. Not that I would be in the know, but I never heard any rumors. More importantly, I knew people working at the TSM and they never expressed any rumors. I'm just wondering how rampant rumors were and who knew about them. Certainly it wasn't widespread like Rene Portland's rumors.
Okay then, Riddle Me This Batman.
Jerry is already years retired from the program in 2001. He has thrown himself FULL TIME into his work with Second Mile. He has the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval slapped on him by Child Protective Services and many area guidance counselors and child psychologists refer children to Jerry and his Second Mile charity.
The state has placed scores of foster kids in his home. He's an approved adoptive parent.
So, you're the Athletic Director of a D1 program at a massive campus rivaling the population of many small towns across Pennsylvania, with all the responsibitlies going on there - and you're supposed to keep tabs on a retired coach and any "rumors" of his interactions with kids swirling around?
Are you kidding me?
Shouldn't the charity CEO that ran a full-time counseling practice in town (who counseled many Second Mile youth) along with his certified public school teacher wife AND a few locally influential, high profile charity board members - who also rubbed elbows with Penn State Trustees - been tracking these so-called "not uncommon" rumors and finding out why these rumors are even out there?
You mean to tell me rumors swirling about a kids charity founder's interactions with charity kids should have been acted upon by an Athletic Director or a geriatric football coach and not by the charity CEO or a Centre County judge that were part of the leadership of that very same kids charity?
That's like expecting Tim, Gary or Joe to act on rumors swirling of Jerry abusing dogs & hoarding cats, as part of his role as Executive Director of the Centre County SPCA - when the SPCA has a full staff of Veterinarians and vet techs that are supposed to be keeping an eye on things.
This was never about football people.
Sylvia Kurtz's "To Believe A Kid" kind of went under the radar but in it she quotes:
Huntingdon High School coach Jim Zauzig as saying that around 2000/2001 other coaches telling him during camps that Sandusky wasn't allowed around little boys anymore because he "liked them".
Her own kids telling her during Sandusky's 2007 commencement speech for the College of Health and Human Development that they couldn't believe he was up there giving a speech since everyone knew he was a pedophile.
Last edited:
Ziegler's plan, which included airing portions of the Sandusky interview on television, was so misguided even the Paterno family has distanced themselves from him. Another part of that plan called for revealing the name of the victim from the infamous 2001 Penn State shower episode. Ziegler eventually reconsidered, but then it was posted on his site anyway, where it remained for several hours. In the text, the victim's first name appeared five times, his last name once, and the name also showed up for a while in the URL link to a separate document. Ziegler admitted he made a "stupid mistake," but he also claimed that his websites "were immediately hit with a massive and coordinated cyber attack" that initially prevented him from making post-publication edits.
This is the same John Ziegler who, back in January, was asked in front of an audience of Penn State Truthers if they were showing enough concern for the victims. His answer:
“My only thought on the victims,” says Ziegler. “And I can’t stand, every time I do a media appearance, you almost have to spend the first 30 seconds saying, ‘Sandusky’s guilty, I’m sorry aboutthe victims,’ and all that business, which is political correctness run amok.”
Now keep in mind that Ziegler had every intention of outing the man known as Victim 2. He made a subtle reference to it in his stupid challenge to the media published last week. Monday morning, Matt Lauer had to interrupt Ziegler to assure viewers of Today that the name wouldn't be revealed on the air. Yesterday afternoon, Ziegler wrote that if Victim 2 "agreed to speak to me and explain this to me himself, that I would gladly consider not releasing his identity." He later denied that was a threat and accused TMZ of defaming him after the site called him out on it.
I think this may be a case of hindsight bias, where now that he has been convicted, people remember hearing rumors.
Anyone who heard a rumor and didn't do anything should be held accountable. I know of a few people who heard rumors and did something with it who had their lives ruined. C/S/S/P passed the rumor onto Jerry's direct supervisor... and their lives were ruined for doing that.
Is she the one that sat at trial with Roxine? I believe she had a pretty strong opinion of AF's mom, right?
Your reference to that January 10, 2011 email from Courtney to Schultz raises an interesting question. Courtney concluded by saying "Nor did I disclose that you and I chatted about this."
So by Courtney's own words he was withholding information from counsel for the University in 2011 about what he and Schultz talked about in 2001 concerning the Sandusky matter. It might be nothing or it might be something; in any event the optics look bad.
So you're saying there were rumors around town that Jerry liked boys going back to 1998, and then MM sees JS in the showers with a kid, goes home and two mandated reporters who work in small town State College where everybody knows everyone's business, tell MM to call the football coach in the morning. Tell me old man McQuery and Dranov weren't aware of the rumors. Or MM for that matter.
HOW DO THEY SKATE IN ALL OF THIS?
Joe definitely did something about it, and did what he should have. Tim and Gary, as it turns out, did not do enough. Dr. Jack undeniably did not do enough, as it turns out. It was clearly not about football.
With 7 or so years of hindsight, I think it seems most likely that Mike McQueary’s memory became much clearer ten years after the fact than he was when reporting to people at the time. Either that, or there really was a coverup by a large group of powerful, influential people who all knew about it intuitively since there has not even been one suggestion that it was ever spoken about.
You know what? People like to talk about it and giggle about it, but they seriously don’t want to do anymore about it.
Is there a complete image of this page with the hand-written notations? I am curious about the complete statement at the bottom starting with "motive for why they buried..." It seems to get into Penn State's athletic history, but in what context?
That was not the intent of my post. The point was that it's irresponsible to to blindly implement every piece of advice one receives. I'm not commenting on this specific situation, just in general.
Why did Tim and Gary not do enough? They were not mandated reporters, the child was not in their care. They passed the vague info that came via a mandated reporter (Dranov) along to another mandated reporter. They essentially did the exact same that MM, his dad, and Dranov did... except their report landed with an expert in the field who had responsibility for JS and the teen.
Why is it that people want to assign guilt only to the most high-profile people involved who were not mandatory reporters and who broke no laws? It couldn't be because they are the most high-profile, could it? Nah, that never happens.
Where the hell is critical thinking in this country?
I will say this: State College is not the only small town that has a teacher/coach type who likes boys. I live in one. To make a very long story short, my guy has been dead for 16 years. To this day, I don’t know.
So...one thing that has really bothered me through all this is if there’s State College and my town, how many other towns are there out that have or have had the very same thing going on.
And yet you have the know-it-alls of the United States of America who think this just a Penn State thing or a Joe Paterno putting football first thing and an everybody just had to know thing.
Meanwhile, young boys continue to be raped right under their g.d. noses.
So...one thing that has really bothered me through all this is if there’s State College and my town, how many other towns are there out that have or have had the very same thing going on.
And yet you have the know-it-alls of the United States of America who think this just a Penn State thing or a Joe Paterno putting football first thing and an everybody just had to know thing.
Meanwhile, young boys continue to be raped right under their g.d. noses.
No one but crooked prosecutors and foaming at the mouth "journalists" anyway...
Dranov had a dossier on the case that he shared with nobody. Why he never went to police is a great mystery, but he would never spill the beans.
Since charges were filed Nov. 4, several variations of McQueary’s story have come out publicly.
- His grand jury testimony says he heard slapping noises and saw a boy being sodomized by Sandusky.
- His hand-written statement to police says, "I did not see insertion. I am certain that sexual acts/the young boy being sodomized was occurring." He says the whole incident lasted about a minute.
- In an email he sent to friends following the firing of Joe Paterno, he says "I made sure it stopped," something not mentioned in the grand jury testimony or police statement.
- And now Dranov’s testimony describes a new scenario.
Curious about how the story ended, Dranov inquired about what ever happened to Sandusky.
According to a source with knowledge of his testimony, Schultz told him then-university President Graham Spanier had met with Sandusky.
That’s something that isn’t mentioned in the grand jury presentment.
Spanier, who was forced to resign the same night Paterno was fired, testified before the grand jury that he had signed off on a decision to ban Sandusky from bringing children to the locker rooms in the future; however, Spanier, Curley and Schultz all deny they were ever informed a sexual assault occurred that night.
Attempts to reach Dranov were unsuccessful.
Sandusky, through Amendola, has offered yet another version of what happened in the showers. He doesn’t deny there was a boy showering with Sandusky that night, but Amendola says the child was surfing in the shower — horsing around — and never saw McQueary come into the locker room.
Instead, Amendola says, a few days later Sandusky was contacted by Curley, told that someone felt uncomfortable about what they’d seen, and Sandusky gave the name and phone number of the boy to Curley to help clear up the situation.
The grand jury report points out that no effort was made to contact the boy.
It’s all predicated on what we have heard thus far. Still not much from Curley, Schultz, Spanier, Dranov, McQueary the elder. Several variations from Mike McQueary.
Schultz and Curley both pled guilty to not doing enough. Now you can say they didn’t want to go to trial, they knew the jury pool would be tainted, etc.... Regardless, they both pled guilty and are on record as being guilty. Should Dranov also be? Absolutely. Dr. McQueary? Absolutely. Raykovitz? Absolutely. It’s astounding to me those three college administrators have been charged and found/pled guilty on this while those three skate through unscathed. It boggles the mind.
Last edited:
No where did I say it was a football problem, it wasn't. Those who failed to act, TSM, CYS, DPW, PSP, OAG, CCDA, LEO made it one. That seems rather self evident. What more could C/S have done? Thats up for debate. Should they have been put in that situation? No, but they were.
I expected to get blasted for my post but thats neither here nor there.
Batman
I expected to get blasted for my post but thats neither here nor there.
Batman
Imo, because they cannot bring themselves to fully believe rumors of that type about a 'pillar of the community'. Any amount of doubt or way to discredit such an unthinkable thing takes away the impetus to report. Too much room for error, maybe, and no one wants to be the one who screws up that kind of thing by sticking out their neck to LE or other agencies when it comes to POCs.
Had it been a guy who works at Sears Auto Service (e.g.), not as much of an issue to reconcile reporting the rumor.
Not blasting you necessarily, but your “rumors” point is really weak. Really weak.
Ditto. Maintained tangential ties to the athletic dept a year or two before and after 2001 incident, but never heard a peep about Jerry until around the time Ganim's first article hit headlines. Makes you wonder why Joe would allow Posnanski 24/7 access to the AD for a full calendar year if he knew a pedophile was lurking in the shadows.
Last edited:
My intent wasnt to come on here and try to convince anybody of anything. I'm just telling you how it went down.
Saying “rumors” weren’t uncommon isn’t telling me how it “went down”. Tell me how it went down. Try doing so without being cryptic.
You knew something was going on in March 2011 ahead of the Ganim piece. Great. You have opinions on who should or should not have done what. That’s great too. I actually share many of your opinions. But the rest of your stuff is cryptic, and I have honestly never learned a thing from your posts to advance my understanding of what happened here. You position yourself as some sort of an insider, so you can do better than that. So please feel free to lay it out. I appreciate it in advance.
If you want to ask me a specific question, be my guest. I'm not going to try and lay out 20 years of knowledge of this case on a message board. I'm not trying to be cryptic, this whole thing is a mass of confusion, it always was. Like I said, ask away or don't.
Why is Penn State taking it up the ass to protect TSM?
Similar threads
