OT: Game of Thrones S8E1 - "Winterfell" - No Spoilers in First Post....

[dontgojoepa]

Same here. Not that it was bad but let down considering how long we have waited

It was necessary and, like almost every first episode of the season, set the pieces in place for what's to come. They needed to do all the reunions and tie up all the questions that were already answered and which everyone but the characters themselves knew (Jon finding out about his true parents, Sam finding out about his father/brother, Cersei meeting the Golden Company, etc.), so that the coming episodes will have context.

While we all want the big twists and action and to get answers to the unanswered questions, if they just jumped right into that without this stuff, it wouldn't make sense and would seem even more rushed. They probably could've spent three episodes just doing these reunions and fleshing them out more (there are simply so many), but that wouldn't have advanced the plot and would've felt repetitive and sluggish. When Bran said "we don't have time for this" in the premiere when Jon is doing the intros upon arriving at Winterfell, I felt it was almost the writers making a joke at their expense and acknowledging that we just have to do the reunions quickly and get them out of the way and move on.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

SPOILERS

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S8E1 was the on screen reunion for many characters whom we all had been with for quite some time. Thought they did very good setting everything up without thrusting anything at us quite so quickly, even if it had been a year and a half.

Sam doing the reveal to John sets up a good dilemma: does he leave things be for the sake of the war? Or does Bran/Sam end up passing the information on to Sansa, who'll then be conflicted I'm sure?

Just guessing that the first big battle will take place in E3. Assuming E2 sets up for it.

It's telling (I think) that when pressed by Sansa about his intentions with Dany (Is she your queen because you believe in her, or because your'e in love with her?) the scene cuts to another without an answer. I think Jon would have a tough time with that, though the answer is probably 'both'. He also doesn't answer Sam's question of whether or not he would have let Sam's brother and father live were he in Dany's shoes. FWIW, I liiked Dany's honesty there - she could have lied and said both died in battle, but her statement is unapologetic and absolutely true. Bigger question is what will Jon think about that....?

 

[NitneLiun]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

I'm Team Dany all the way #fireandblood

 

[palmettolion]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

She was likeable when her brother was still alive. I've disliked her ever since he got crowned. Once she got some power she become unreasonable and constantly has to have someone reign her back in. Like she was born on 3rd base and thinks she hit a triple. Besides, she's a false queen anyway, a pretender. The Iron Throne is not her right.

 

[aquapong]

I didn’t catch that was Umber nailed to the wall towards the end. I was thinking that was the Glover’s place. I guess I need to know my sigils better.

I was surprised Sam cared that his father was torched.

We have yet to see Melisandre (and I bet Dario) come charging in to try and effect the outcome of things somehow.

 

[4INSBU]

I didn’t catch that was Umber nailed to the wall towards the end. I was thinking that was the Glover’s place. I guess I need to know my sigils better.

I was surprised Sam cared that his father was torched.

We have yet to see Melisandre (and I bet Dario) come charging in to try and effect the outcome of things somehow.

Agree with your comment on Sam. I was surprised too. I've wondered also about Dario. You'd think Dany would send for his army after seeing the Army of the Dead. Maybe the writers don't want the complication it brings as she now loves Jon.

 

[djr4rebs]

Yeah, I get that they just can't get right to the battle, and I really loved seeing all the reunions (especially Jon and Arya). That said, who has time for joyrides on dragons? I guess it does establish that Jon can ride one and that will probably be useful down the road. The dialogue has always been my favorite part of the show so I don't mind slow episodes, and the ending with young Carstark was pretty unexpected.

Question: Is Cersei pregnant? Was she at the end of last season? Or was she planning to get pregnant (thus her shagging Euron)? I'm not clear on that.

They tend to give love moments. Perhaps most watch with the viewpoint that "the White walkers are coming and you are off riding dragons!?", but their everyday life is hard and miserable. Escape is escape.

Cersei has been among the best plotters in GoT. Between her looks, and her connections, somebody always wants to help her regain the upper hand. Considering now she has a bounty on Jaime, they've really given her the loose cannon capability because she has no less than four ways things could go.

Bigger question is what will Jon think about that....?

Probably the same reaction he gave Sam.

 

[Grass]

I didn’t catch that was Umber nailed to the wall towards the end. I was thinking that was the Glover’s place. I guess I need to know my sigils better.

I was surprised Sam cared that his father was torched.

We have yet to see Melisandre (and I bet Dario) come charging in to try and effect the outcome of things somehow.

I was just going to bring up Daario. My brother thinks he's going to come back and wipe out the Iron Fleet.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

They tend to give love moments. Perhaps most watch with the viewpoint that "the White walkers are coming and you are off riding dragons!?", but their everyday life is hard and miserable. Escape is escape.

Cersei has been among the best plotters in GoT. Between her looks, and her connections, somebody always wants to help her regain the upper hand. Considering now she has a bounty on Jaime, they've really given her the loose cannon capability because she has no less than four ways things could go.



Probably the same reaction he gave Sam.

Can you remind me what that was? For some reason I recall him not really saying one way or the other.

 

[RandyL]

Dario and his mercenaries may be needed to offset the other group of mercenaries.
But other than them, looks like only Bronn has yet to arrive; I bet he dies saving Tyrion or Jaime.
We now have the Lannister claim, two Targayrean claimants; one potential Baratheon claimant; several potential Stark competitors; two Iron Throne factons.
Perhaps the show ends as it began with various claimants still alive to continue fighting for the throne.
The wheel is not broken.

 

[djr4rebs]

Can you remind me what that was? For some reason I recall him not really saying one way or the other.

Something along the lines of he's had to kill those who didn't bend the knee before. Sam reminded him of his giving mercy as well.

 

[canuckhal]

A few more questions after re-watching the episode:

1) Did Euron stick his finger in Cersei's bum? Did she like it?
2) How will Brienne and the Hound greet one another? About the only reunion we didn't see.
3) Will Bronn follow through on his mission? Seems unlikely, but maybe puts him at the front line with the others.
4) If love doesn't last, what is the cause for a rift b/w Dany and Jon? Is it burning people alive without mercy or being a threat to the crown?
5) When will Melissandre show up again? She and Varys have roles left to play.
6) How will the battle with the Whites impact everyone?
7) Who will figure out what all the Night King's symbols mean? And how will they impact the story?
8) Will Dany's vision become prophecy? Will the seven kingdoms even exist?
9) What will Theon bring to the battle at Winterfell?

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

Interesting take. I expected it was the dragons who’d be the ones to identify Jon. Figured (accepted) I was wrong. If you’re right about only a targ riding them, then maybe I was right.

But am I’m having a “senior moment?” How were Dany and Jon to know only a targ can ride a dragon? Forgot? Remind? Was that common knowledge? I dont remember from the books or the show.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Interesting take. I expected it was the dragons who’d be the ones to identify Jon. Figured I was wrong. If you’re right about only a targ riding them, then maybe I was right.

But am I’m having a “senior moment?” How were Dany and Jon to know only a targ can ride a dragon? Forgot? Remind? Was that common knowledge? I dont remember from the books or the show.

My guess is that it's not common knowledge (other than maybe for Dany) since dragons have been 'extinct' for hundreds of years in the show. Which made me think of another question - who gave Dany the fossilized dragon eggs? Could there be more?

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

My guess is that it's not common knowledge (other than maybe for Dany) since dragons have been 'extinct' for hundreds of years in the show. Which made me think of another question - who gave Dany the fossilized dragon eggs? Could there be more?

They were a wedding gift when she married khal drogo. Don’t remember from whom but I almost think it was Mormont. I’ll google now..

EDiT: nope! Dead wrong. Illyrio Mopatis. Got them from Asshai, the shadow lands... or something. Maybe there are or could be more...

 

[PSUcup1]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

This. The dragon scenes with Jon are to show that as a true Targaryen, he can control them

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Any guesses as to what device/weapon Arya wants Gendry to make? Looks like something she can attach to her wrist and hide, but is a projectile...?

 

[PSUcup1]

Interesting take. I expected it was the dragons who’d be the ones to identify Jon. Figured (accepted) I was wrong. If you’re right about only a targ riding them, then maybe I was right.

But am I’m having a “senior moment?” How were Dany and Jon to know only a targ can ride a dragon? Forgot? Remind? Was that common knowledge? I dont remember from the books or the show.

If you recall in season 7, Jon outs his hand up close to one of the dragons face and the dragon responds favorably. That was some forshadowing IMO

 

[SR108]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

A bunch of people rode the dragon out of harms way in season 7 episode 6.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

If you recall in season 7, Jon outs his hand up close to one of the dragons face and the dragon responds favorably. That was some forshadowing IMO

Worth noting they didn't eat Tyrion either...

 

[psu_83_drummer]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

I guess getting a cab ride on a dragon doesn't count? The Hound, Berric, and Tormund got a lift from Dany to escape the White Walkers last season.

 

[NewEra 2014]

Any guesses as to what device/weapon Arya wants Gendry to make? Looks like something she can attach to her wrist and hide, but is a projectile...?

My guess is that it is a spear to kill the white walker dragon.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

My guess is that it is a spear to kill the white walker dragon.

A dragon glass spear? Hmm.....

 

[PSUcup1]

A bunch of people rode the dragon out of harms way in season 7 episode 6.

They weren’t “driving” or controlling the dragon. I believe that’s the difference

 

[christoph]

What are Cersi’s plans? Sent people to actually turn on the north once the battle starts with the dead?

 

[palmettolion]

This. The dragon scenes with Jon are to show that as a true Targaryen, he can control them

While I certainly understand your point, we all knew he was a true Targaryen last season, through Bran's greensight and Sam's reading of his fathers annulment while at the Citadel. I guess I just figured it was a given that he could control them and made the whole scene unnecessary.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

What are Cersi’s plans? Sent people to actually turn on the north once the battle starts with the dead?

This is a good question - correct me if I'm wrong: Cersei agrees to help in the great war and tells Tyrion she's sending her army north, but that's not true, right? She tells Jaime she's not actually sending the army and thus, the reason he heads north (is that right?). So, Sansa's jab at her HUSBAND Tyrion is spot on - he's a fool for beliving Cersei.

To that end, I have no idea what her plans appear to be. My guess is attack the other armies when she gets a chance? She's sort of all over the place.

 

[fortheglory94]

The dragon riding scene might not be as pointless as some think. I believe it is true that only a Targaryen (and the Night King) can ride a dragon. Apparently, Dany and Jon have forgotten that fact, but when they are reminded of it, it will be further proof of Jon's true identity.

BTW, it is disgusting how so many of you are turning on Dany. She was a darling of the show for several seasons.

Others can ride dragons besides just Targaryens. The latest GMMR book was Fire and Blood, and in it that is covered.

 

[PSUcup1]

While I certainly understand your point, we all knew he was a true Targaryen last season, through Bran's greensight and Sam's reading of his fathers annulment while at the Citadel. I guess I just figured it was a given that he could control them and made the whole scene unnecessary.

Sorry. I was thinking of viewing it more from Danyearus’ point of view. That she will realize it later on as more evidence of Jon’s true lineage

 

[LafayetteBear]

A dragon glass spear? Hmm.....

I have not rewatched the episode, but it appeared from the brief glimpse we got that Arya had sketched out some kind of weapon that comes in two parts. It certainly did not look like Needle, or any other kind of sword/rapier. Totally hazarding a guess here, but maybe a small crossbow that fires some kind of Dragonglass projectile?

 

[aquapong]

A dragon glass spear? Hmm.....

I have not rewatched the episode, but it appeared from the brief glimpse we got that Arya had sketched out some kind of weapon that comes in two parts. It certainly did not look like Needle, or any other kind of sword/rapier. Totally hazarding a guess here, but maybe a small crossbow that fires some kind of Dragonglass projectile?

One thing is certain...someone significant will die at the end of it...Cersei, Visereon, the Night King, the Hound, Danarys...

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I didn’t catch that was Umber nailed to the wall towards the end. I was thinking that was the Glover’s place.
I was surprised Sam cared that his father was torched.

We have yet to see Melisandre (and I bet Dario) come charging in to try and effect the outcome of things somehow.

I sense that what mattered was that the northerners will now have to fight a dead army of a house that was disengaged politically and turned easily. That was a brilliant bolstering of force by the night king but added a twist. That was the first time I recall him leaving any new dead soldier behind. Why send a message at all? Seemed like an unnecessary and wasteful expression of hubris by an otherwise calculating and strategic leader. This might enable/convince the living to organize, spread out or arm themselves to prepare for his army’s arrival in winterfell or wherever else. An empty castle would have potentially left folks wondering. And why leave the body parts in the symbol? Just seemed weird for a guy who kills and then assimilates.

I don’t expect Sam cared about his dad. He stole his v-steel sword, which is a big deal in their culture. Wasn’t just needing it for the war because his house would have needed it too. Reaction seemed more pointed re his brothers (and maybe others in the house.). I was actually disappointed by sam’s reveal. If he was really so upset about his family, wouldn’t likely have switched gears so matter-of-factly from his dead family injustice to Jon’s lineage.

Remember Melisandre is one of many red witches and others following the lord of light. They’ll play their part in the battle v the darkness, but she was banished by Jon for sacrificing a child. I don’t see his character welcoming her back. Maybe she and Sam will work together. Gilly and her baby might be the key there. Remember Gilly has a baby that the night king would have turned to a new Other. Would be interesting if Melisandre makes the right call this time.

If you recall in season 7, Jon outs his hand up close to one of the dragons face and the dragon responds favorably. That was some forshadowing IMO

. I remember that scene and was disappointed. I didn't think it was a “favorable” reaction or even one showing a telling curiosity. You may be right but I wanted/expected more recognition/identification in that scene.

MAJOR POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT. I was expecting more along the line of when Jon went to see Dany if she’d have ordered them to kill Jon and either theyd refused because he was a targ or if they’d complied and he wasn’t burnt, since fire can’t hurt a targ. My hunch is that Jon sacrifices himself to kill the night king and his dragon and pulls it off while being torched by the dragon’s blue flame or some flame. Surviving that wins the war (kills all others who came from the night king—seemingly all) and unites all kingdoms around a just ruler, which was the most likely end from the start. Might be wrong but if I were bringing this to a close...

 

[PSU2UNC]

This is a good question - correct me if I'm wrong: Cersei agrees to help in the great war and tells Tyrion she's sending her army north, but that's not true, right? She tells Jaime she's not actually sending the army and thus, the reason he heads north (is that right?). So, Sansa's jab at her HUSBAND Tyrion is spot on - he's a fool for beliving Cersei.

To that end, I have no idea what her plans appear to be. My guess is attack the other armies when she gets a chance? She's sort of all over the place.

It's not clear to me why she needs the Golden Company (the sellswords that Euron brings from Essos) if her army isn't going North.

Is it to fight the Walkers when they get to King's Landing? Or she still in denial that they are a problem? or did she just really want war elephants (her disappointment that the elephants didn't make the trip made me laugh).

 

[canuckhal]

It's not clear to me why she needs the Golden Company (the sellswords that Euron brings from Essos) if her army isn't going North.

Is it to fight the Walkers when they get to King's Landing? Or she still in denial that they are a problem? or did she just really want war elephants (her disappointment that the elephants didn't make the trip made me laugh).

I was wondering the exact same. Dany attacked the Lannister army so likely she needs reinforcements, but the Lannister's still have enough of an army to send north and don't seem to lament their loss that much. Or maybe they no longer have much of an army and just aren't telling anyone.

And Sam's Dad and brother were fighting with the Lannister's. So, he can be upset, but they were on the wrong side and against the North.

 

[dontgojoepa]

I was wondering the exact same. Dany attacked the Lannister army so likely she needs reinforcements, but the Lannister's still have enough of an army to send north and don't seem to lament their loss that much. Or maybe they no longer have much of an army and just aren't telling anyone.

And Sam's Dad and brother were fighting with the Lannister's. So, he can be upset, but they were on the wrong side and against the North.

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While there is still a Lannister army, as Jaime told Cersei, they would be easily destroyed by Dany's forces (the Unsullied, Dothraki and dragons). That's why Cersei needs the Golden Company for the next battle - whatever that may be.

 

[PSU2UNC]

While there is still a Lannister army, as Jaime told Cersei, they would be easily destroyed by Dany's forces (the Unsullied, Dothraki and dragons). That's why Cersei needs the Golden Company for the next battle - whatever that may be.

This suggests then, that despite seeing the undead guy in King's Landing, she thinks that Jon and Dany are going to beat the White Walkers, so all she will have to deal with is their army? Because otherwise the white walker army will just keep growing in size as it moves south she'll be totally effed.

 

[dontgojoepa]

This suggests then, that despite seeing the undead guy in King's Landing, she thinks that Jon and Dany are going to beat the White Walkers, so all she will have to deal with is their army? Because otherwise the white walker army will just keep growing in size as it moves south she'll be totally effed.

I think she just understands that the Lannister army by itself is not sufficient to beat either and, since she really has no other alliances that she can make, the Golden Company is her last and only option.

On a side note, it'll be interesting how the books deal with this since the Golden Company is already under the employ/allegiance of Young Griff (another person who claims to be Aegon Targaryen that the show omits) and they are in the midst of attacking several strongholds in the stormlands.

 

[SR108]

This is a good question - correct me if I'm wrong: Cersei agrees to help in the great war and tells Tyrion she's sending her army north, but that's not true, right? She tells Jaime she's not actually sending the army and thus, the reason he heads north (is that right?). So, Sansa's jab at her HUSBAND Tyrion is spot on - he's a fool for beliving Cersei.

To that end, I have no idea what her plans appear to be. My guess is attack the other armies when she gets a chance? She's sort of all over the place.

She can always evacuate with her new boyfriend if the dead defeats the north.

 

[lj4heisman1]

I pretty much know how it's going to go. The armies in the north will bicker while the White Walkers destroy half of them and Cersei will be chilling down south having gratuitous amounts of sex and will end up on the throne only to be taken out by Arya.

um,,,,she is on the throne now