OT: Game of Thrones S8E1 - "Winterfell" - No Spoilers in First Post....

[canuckhal]

While there is still a Lannister army, as Jaime told Cersei, they would be easily destroyed by Dany's forces (the Unsullied, Dothraki and dragons). That's why Cersei needs the Golden Company for the next battle - whatever that may be.

I'm betting that a p

This is a good question - correct me if I'm wrong: Cersei agrees to help in the great war and tells Tyrion she's sending her army north, but that's not true, right? She tells Jaime she's not actually sending the army and thus, the reason he heads north (is that right?). So, Sansa's jab at her HUSBAND Tyrion is spot on - he's a fool for beliving Cersei.

To that end, I have no idea what her plans appear to be. My guess is attack the other armies when she gets a chance? She's sort of all over the place.

I believe you recall correctly. Her plan seems to be let the others fight the Whites. If the Whites win, she is screwed anyway. If they don't, she is dealing with a weaker opposition.

Will be interesting how this all plays out, but yes, Tyrion should know better. He does know Jaime is a man of his word. And he thought she is pregnant so as he said: she has something to live for. Pretty dumb to say publicly that the Lannister army is coming. That might bite him in the ass. Just another thing for Dany to have to overcome with people of the North.

 

[RandyL]

Isnt there another reunion we have not yet seen?
Altho I dont ever recall any direct mention of it... isnt fierce lttle Lyanna Mormont related to Ser Jorah Mormont?
Or do I have their names confused?

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

This is a good question - correct me if I'm wrong: Cersei agrees to help in the great war and tells Tyrion she's sending her army north, but that's not true, right? She tells Jaime she's not actually sending the army and thus, the reason he heads north (is that right?). So, Sansa's jab at her HUSBAND Tyrion is spot on - he's a fool for beliving Cersei.

To that end, I have no idea what her plans appear to be. My guess is attack the other armies when she gets a chance? She's sort of all over the place.

Guessing she’s thinking like a Lanister. Money. Even Robert explained it all early in the first season as king. The kingdom was broke then if not for the lanister money. Then the Lannister’s stole from the tyrells. Then Cersei convinced the iron bank to lend more money. Now the gold company is in and there’s really no future for the Lannister’s except her. She’s made incredible allies by thinking big. And she doubled down and brought them for the ride. If the dead show up and take over, all investment is gone. Either she shoots the moon or there’s no lanister on the hook for the debts. Btw, she also has her own means of creating an army of the dead. Total guesses.

 

[Nittany_93]

One intriguing line that hasn't garnered much attention is when Bronn is being approached to take care of the queen's "traitorous brothers", when Bronn mentions Queen Dany, the Hand says not to worry, Cersei already has plans for Dany.

Is this what Cersei and Tyrion may have discussed in private? Isn't there a curse or premonition that Dany wil be betrayed 3 times?

 

[Overthereguy]

I didn’t catch that was Umber nailed to the wall towards the end. I was thinking that was the Glover’s place. I guess I need to know my sigils better.

I was surprised Sam cared that his father was torched.

We have yet to see Melisandre (and I bet Dario) come charging in to try and effect the outcome of things somehow.

It seemed that Sam was upset (maybe torn) about his father and probably could have gotten over that part, but it was too much for him when he learned his brother was also executed.

Sam will defintiely be anti-Dany now, so it will be interesting to see how much that impacts John's loyalty to Dany. Sam is practically a brother to John and Dany is just a new love interest (although also his Aunt). I foresee some event happening where Dany wants to execute Sam for treasononous actions and John has to make a emotional decision on where his true loyalties lie. There seemed to be some foreshadowing for this when Sam mentioned how John showed people mercy in the past and Dany hasn't.

 

[Delco Lion]

Did anyone catch the comet and fourth dragon on the sword in the opening scene? Looks like there will be a fourth dragon.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Isnt there another reunion we have not yet seen?
Altho I dont ever recall any direct mention of it... isnt fierce lttle Lyanna Mormont related to Ser Jorah Mormont?
Or do I have their names confused?

You are correct, but they may have never met. It's not clear how long Jorah was exiled, but it seems like it was awhile. If anything maybe he met her when she was a baby. And maybe Jorah isn't psyched to introduce himself as her relative because he disgraced their house with his slave trading.

But yes, you'd think there'd be a passing mention of this.

 

[RLCookie]

OK so here is my prediction (and I’m not sure how it impacts, but it will) only Targarians can ride and control dragons. Dani and John both rode the dragons and controlled them. The Night King also rode the dead dragon and controlled him. The Night King is Jon Snows father!

 

[PSU2UNC]

OK so here is my prediction (and I’m not sure how it impacts, but it will) only Targarians can ride and control dragons. Dani and John both rode the dragons and controlled them. The Night King also rode the dead dragon and controlled him. The Night King is Jon Snows father!

Not a bad theory, but two things:

1) We know the Night King is much, much older than Rhaegar (and we know Rhaegar is Jon's father so that doesn't track.

2) I don't think the dragon rules (which might not even be real...I can imagine the Targs saying "yep, only WE can ride dragons") apply to undead dragons. The Night King controls everything he's "turned" (giants, people, horses, etc), so why would dragons be any different?

 

[Grass]

Not a bad theory, but two things:

1) We know the Night King is much, much older than Rhaegar (and we know Rhaegar is Jon's father so that doesn't track.

2) I don't think the dragon rules (which might not even be real...I can imagine the Targs saying "yep, only WE can ride dragons") apply to undead dragons. The Night King controls everything he's "turned" (giants, people, horses, etc), so why would dragons be any different?

I think the writers (could be mistaken) on the after show did in fact say that only Targaryen's can control dragons.

 

[BiochemPSU]

 

[WPB_lion]

A few more questions after re-watching the episode:

2) How will Brienne and the Hound greet one another? About the only reunion we didn't see.

Brienne and the Hound already saw and spoke to each other at the end of last season before the meeting between Dany, Jon, and Cersei et. al. with the wight. The talked about Arya and how Arya doesn't need anyone's protection.

 

[Talpsu]

It was necessary and, like almost every first episode of the season, set the pieces in place for what's to come. They needed to do all the reunions and tie up all the questions that were already answered and which everyone but the characters themselves knew (Jon finding out about his true parents, Sam finding out about his father/brother, Cersei meeting the Golden Company, etc.), so that the coming episodes will have context.

While we all want the big twists and action and to get answers to the unanswered questions, if they just jumped right into that without this stuff, it wouldn't make sense and would seem even more rushed. They probably could've spent three episodes just doing these reunions and fleshing them out more (there are simply so many), but that wouldn't have advanced the plot and would've felt repetitive and sluggish. When Bran said "we don't have time for this" in the premiere when Jon is doing the intros upon arriving at Winterfell, I felt it was almost the writers making a joke at their expense and acknowledging that we just have to do the reunions quickly and get them out of the way and move on.

oh I dont disagree with this at all. I think they couldand should have easily made the first episode longer doing all of this stuff. they talked about how much longer all these episodes will be yet the first two or 54-55min. Let down when there are only 5 left. 3rd episode is the biggest so im curious to see where it goes from there but I would have liked a longer first that went into a little more detail on these reunions.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I think the writers (could be mistaken) on the after show did in fact say that only Targaryen's can control dragons.

I didn’t watch the after show. It in any case, was more likely focused on Jon than the night king. More likely he controls what he returns to undead life.

 

[Talpsu]

Did anyone catch the comet and fourth dragon on the sword in the opening scene? Looks like there will be a fourth dragon.

I didnt catch that but I did catch when they showed the room under the throne room which is where the dead dragon skeletons are kept. I mentioned that to my girl that maybe they come back

 

[Grass]

I didn’t watch the after show. It in any case, was more likely focused on Jon than the night king. More likely he controls what he returns to undead life.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure what they said was specific to Dany and Jon. I was half watching it, but I do remember them talking about it.

 

[RandyL]

So...are you guys sugesting that the 4th dragon would be Cersei's..having been brought back to life like the Mountain was?

 

[Talpsu]

So...are you guys sugesting that the 4th dragon would be Cersei's..having been brought back to life like the Mountain was?

No not me anyway. I think the knight king brings it to life and kills Cersei. Totally my opinion. In fact i think they have the battle up north. we lose several characters but dont exactly lose. Night king and remaining army continue south. take out Cersei and he sits on the iron throne while the remaining living in the north build another wall. Off the wall scenario but not too crazy. Remember in I think a Danny dream they show the throne room full of snow too.

 

[razpsu]

Jaime will join his brother against Cersei after he finds out their is a bounty on his head. Now all 3 are friends I doubt he tries to kill both brothers. He will turn as well.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

No not me anyway. I think the knight king brings it to life and kills Cersei. Totally my opinion. In fact i think they have the battle up north. we lose several characters but dont exactly lose. Night king and remaining army continue south. take out Cersei and he sits on the iron throne while the remaining living in the north build another wall. Off the wall scenario but not too crazy. Remember in I think a Danny dream they show the throne room full of snow too.

I can’t imagine what the iron throne would mean to the night king. But I’ve oft been criticized for my inability to relate to the dead (or undead), understand what might motivate them to kill and conquer, etc.

 

[dontgojoepa]

Did anyone catch the comet and fourth dragon on the sword in the opening scene? Looks like there will be a fourth dragon.

I think (and I could be wrong) that the sword was depicting stuff that already happened. I think there is a large dragon (representing Dany) and 3 small infant dragons (representing her "children").

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Jaime will join his brother against Cersei after he finds out their is a bounty on his head. Now all 3 are friends I doubt he tries to kill both brothers. He will turn as well.

My biggest 'wild guess' at something that happens in the final season? Arya gets to King's Landing, kills Cersei, and takes her face. While impersonating her she's killed by any of Jaime/Tyrion/Bronn - after she dies, they realize their mistake.....

I really hope that doesn't happen.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I’ve oft been criticized for my inability to relate to the dead (or undead).

I get that criticism a lot, too, particularly as concerns the undead.

 

[Roar More]

How can one access the after show. I recall watching it in the past, but can't find it now.

 

[razpsu]

That beginning was new and weird. What was last or second to last kingdom they showed i couldn’t read it. It was new.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

That beginning was new and weird. What was last or second to last kingdom they showed i couldn’t read it. It was new.

I believe they only showed three areas - Winterfell, King's Landing, and Last Hearth (the home of House Umber). My guess is we won't see that again...

 

[Grass]

How can one access the after show. I recall watching it in the past, but can't find it now.

If you xfinity you can go to on demand and re-watch the episode and it will be at the end.

 

[djr4rebs]

My biggest 'wild guess' at something that happens in the final season? Arya gets to King's Landing, kills Cersei, and takes her face. While impersonating her she's killed by any of Jaime/Tyrion/Bronn - after she dies, they realize their mistake.....

I really hope that doesn't happen.

I can see this.

 

[psu7113]

A bunch of people rode the dragon out of harms way in season 7 episode 6.

As “passengers,” but Dani was “driving.”

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

My biggest 'wild guess' at something that happens in the final season? Arya gets to King's Landing, kills Cersei, and takes her face. While impersonating her she's killed by any of Jaime/Tyrion/Bronn - after she dies, they realize their mistake.....

I really hope that doesn't happen.

So that’s what you mean by getting too cute with the faceless stuff. I don’t see it happening, mostly because I don’t see Arya hating Cersei enough for the writers to find satisfaction in writing the death. But it’s creative, like when biter or whoever chopped off Jaime’s hand. So it might... definite points for creativity.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

So that’s what you mean by getting too cute with the faceless stuff. I don’t see it happening, mostly because I don’t see Arya hating Cersei enough for the writers to find satisfaction in writing the death. But it’s creative, like when biter or whoever chopped off Jaime’s hand. So it might... definite points for creativity.

Cersei is on her list though...

And additionally, I just don't see Arya on the frontlines with Jon fighting walkers; he's a soldier, but she's an assassin. It makes sense for her to have a different mission when things kick off. At some point the North will get wind of whatever it is Cersei is planning and they'll send Arya to nip it in the bud (or, more likely, she takes off on her own). Dunno. Arya has been my favorite since S1E1 and I really hope she survives.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Cersei is on her list though...

And additionally, I just don't see Arya on the frontlines with Jon fighting walkers; he's a soldier, but she's an assassin. It makes sense for her to have a different mission when things kick off. At some point the North will get wind of whatever it is Cersei is planning and they'll send Arya to nip it in the bud (or, more likely, she takes off on her own). Dunno. Arya has been my favorite since S1E1 and I really hope she survives.

Makes total sense. Cersei is on the list. So is the hound. Maybe she’s semi-satisfied now that she thought she’d robbed and killed him. I don’t think the list is as important as it was. But, while everything you said makes total sense and could be the storyline, if it goes that way my guess is she goes to KL to kill her and the mountain with that DG dagger shown in the previews and the Dagger doesn’t work on the mountain. Hence the running away. Who knows what works on him at this point. How cool would it be for the Hound to play into that. But the odds seem she’s at winterfell when the whites arrive.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Makes total sense. Cersei is on the list. So is the hound. Maybe she’s semi-satisfied now that she thought she’d robbed and killed him. I don’t think the list is as important as it was. But, while everything you said makes total sense and could be the storyline, if it goes that way my guess is she goes to KL to kill her and the mountain with that DG dagger shown in the previews and the Dagger doesn’t work on the mountain. Hence the running away. Who knows what works on him at this point. How cool would it be for the Hound to play into that. But the odds seem she’s at winterfell when the whites arrive.

That could happen but The Mountain isn’t on her radar at this point is he? I do think she’ll be with The Hound though at the end.

 

[razpsu]

I just realized that the mountain is the hounds brother. Took me a little bit to figure that out.

I think arye and hound are closer friends. I don’t see her trying to kill him. Especially when he has the same viewpoint now about kings landing.

 

[Lion78]

Makes total sense. Cersei is on the list. So is the hound. Maybe she’s semi-satisfied now that she thought she’d robbed and killed him. I don’t think the list is as important as it was. But, while everything you said makes total sense and could be the storyline, if it goes that way my guess is she goes to KL to kill her and the mountain with that DG dagger shown in the previews and the Dagger doesn’t work on the mountain. Hence the running away. Who knows what works on him at this point. How cool would it be for the Hound to play into that. But the odds seem she’s at winterfell when the whites arrive.

The Hound was taken off her list. She got smacked with a stick for lying that he was on the list and corrected herself.

 

[RandyL]

And the Hound told Brienne that Arya has nothing to fear from him. Actually she never really did. Nor did Sansa.
I would not be surpised to see the Hound die trying to save/help Arya in some way...altho that may be too "traditional" for this series.

 

[Talpsu]

Makes total sense. Cersei is on the list. So is the hound. Maybe she’s semi-satisfied now that she thought she’d robbed and killed him. I don’t think the list is as important as it was. But, while everything you said makes total sense and could be the storyline, if it goes that way my guess is she goes to KL to kill her and the mountain with that DG dagger shown in the previews and the Dagger doesn’t work on the mountain. Hence the running away. Who knows what works on him at this point. How cool would it be for the Hound to play into that. But the odds seem she’s at winterfell when the whites arrive.

They showed a drawing of that Dagger in one of the books Sam was reading and paging through at the Citidel. Possibly when he found the info on the dragon glass so that dagger is definitely going to play a part in the Whitewalkers. Remember its valayian steel too.

 

[PSU2UNC]

And the Hound told Brienne that Arya has nothing to fear from him. Actually she never really did. Nor did Sansa.
I would not be surpised to see the Hound die trying to save/help Arya in some way...altho that may be too "traditional" for this series.

Who do you think has changed more during the course of the series, Jamie or the Hound? Both have gone from Big Villain to Fighting for the Good Guys.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Who do you think has changed more during the course of the series, Jamie or the Hound? Both have gone from Big Villain to Fighting for the Good Guys.

Jaime I think but both have had remarkable story arcs. I will say Jaime is one of my favorites because he never revealed the real reason he killed Aerys Targaryen, which was because he was going to kill everyone in KL with wildfire, and instead lived with the Kingslayer moniker because he wouldn't break his oath to the King (even though, um, he killed him). The Hound is still mostly Chaotic Neutral, but he's on a different side now. He killed an innocent boy, but has protected Loras and Sansa when they would have otherwise been beaten/killed. Still, I love both characters but think Jaime has moved the most (assuming he's actually willing to go against Cersei).

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Housekeeping question for GoT discussion regulars - should someone start a new thread after each episode, or should we continue the discussions in this one (where I will change the thread title to the most current episode)? Not sure which is best noting I am not a fan of cluttering up the board (though new threads may be easier to dive into....).