OT: Getting rid of coyotes

[nittanyfan333]

I agree as an active hunter and one that purchased my first car with my income from trapping , but I find it odd that hunters throw shad on trappers. Oh well.

Yeah I never understood the hate on trappers. Most of what they trap are detrimental to what I hunt, so i'm all for them. the raccoons eat my corn piles, the foxes and yotes are a threat to the deer population (although not a big threat). and at the end of the day, if they're doing it for the right reasons, they're conservationists just like me.

and looking at the more wild posts by some of the bleeding-heart animal ideologues, does anyone wonder why most people just laugh at them? I mean do they really think that mentality will fix things? makes no sense to me.

 

[PSU Mike]

I didn't see anyone advocating extermination, just population control. Coyotes do kill a lot of fawns and some adult deer, which doesn't gain favor with we deer hunters.

Are they the same deer hunters that request an increase in the limits on hunting deer because they’re either already overpopulated or will become so without more hunting?

 

[PAgeologist]

Are they the same deer hunters that request an increase in the limits on hunting deer because they’re either already overpopulated or will become so without more hunting?

I would guess it depends on your area and your perspective. Roughly 10 or so years ago I almost quit hunting because of a lack of deer. I'll admit though was very impatient and easily discouraged. I took a couple years off and now have a completely different outlook.

I hate the new limits on doe hunting in PA. Much like trout fishing, way too many "freezer fillers" out there who will never consume all they kill. Those people should never be allowed to get a fishing or hunting license again.

 

[fkkkjm]

u

Yea and you enjoy that next chicken or beef hamburger or pork product you stuff into your face

brilliant take.

 

[Indian rocks rich]

Trappers are one level above serial killers and sex offenders. Horrible horrible way of making a living.

Also you have no clue about hunting and trapping conservation in Pennsylvania

 

[83wuzme]

Yea and you enjoy that next chicken or beef hamburger or pork product you stuff into your face

Remember to look for the green “ Died of Natural Causes “ label.

 

[PAgeologist]

Remember to look for the green “ Died of Natural Causes “ label.

Is it the one with the bad smell and gray meat that is tough as nails?

 

[The Spin Meister]

Are they the same deer hunters that request an increase in the limits on hunting deer because they’re either already overpopulated or will become so without more hunting?

Deer population is a controversial subject. The forestry and insurance industry want far fewer deer. Lots of Ag people too. In many areas across the state the deer had overbrowsed to forest to the point there was little undergrowth. Which means less food, cover, and nesting for other species. Also,damaged forest growth and lots of car damage.

Fifteen years ago the GC issued huge amounts of doe licenses to decrease the population. It dropped the population by a large percentage which pissed off a lot of hunters. But other new regs on antler size, coupled with a healthier herd have led to a lot of trophy bucks so now most hunters are happy.

 

[83wuzme]

Is it the one with the bad smell and gray meat that is tough as nails?

You forgot parasites.

 

[83wuzme]

Deer population is a controversial subject. The forestry and insurance industry want far fewer deer. Lots of Ag people too. In many areas across the state the deer had overbrowsed to forest to the point there was little undergrowth. Which means less food, cover, and nesting for other species. Also,damaged forest growth and lots of car damage.

Fifteen years ago the GC issued huge amounts of doe licenses to decrease the population. It dropped the population by a large percentage which pissed off a lot of hunters. But other new regs on antler size, coupled with a healthier herd have led to a lot of trophy bucks so now most hunters are happy.

Another big problem is invasive plants. Deer don’t eat them, but they eat many of the native plants. This screws up the ecology of the forest and eliminates food sources for native insects and animals.

 

[wbcincy]

What are your thoughts on bow hunting or kids gut shooting deer? Or about a goose hunter winging a shot only to be lost? Think about it.
There are studies out there about leg hold traps and what occurs.

I disagree with any effort to hunt where your goal isn’t to cause the death as quickly as possible. I bow hunt, but I’ve not had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping. It’s over within minutes. Then I’ve seen trappers who find the coyote, etc dead from being stuck and not checked for long periods, in a painful trap. I’m willing to be educated if my understanding here is wrong, but leaving the animal afraid and in pain for long periods isn’t something I’m into.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Down here in NC, the herd is VERY healthy. So healthy in fact, that we're allowed 6 deer (4 doe 2 buck) every year. And the herd isn't thinning any time soon...

I wish the people that don't like hunting would talk to a wildlife biologist. The things they do and they reasons they do them are eye opening. Tags aren't some random number that the PGC or any game commission just randomly pick out of the air. They're carefully managed with the heavy influence of biologists based on how the numbers would affect the ecosystem. It's a freaking science, and those that thing hunters are just out there killing mercilessly and without prejudice are absolutely blind to what's really happening. oh... they're idiots as well. stop letting your ideology run how you talk to people and do some research. Take the time to learn something.

 

[PAgeologist]

Deer population is a controversial subject. The forestry and insurance industry want far fewer deer. Lots of Ag people too. In many areas across the state the deer had overbrowsed to forest to the point there was little undergrowth. Which means less food, cover, and nesting for other species. Also,damaged forest growth and lots of car damage.

Fifteen years ago the GC issued huge amounts of doe licenses to decrease the population. It dropped the population by a large percentage which pissed off a lot of hunters. But other new regs on antler size, coupled with a healthier herd have led to a lot of trophy bucks so now most hunters are happy.

I'll add that in PA there are way less hunters than even 10 years ago.

I was one of those who was fuming mad at the antler restrictions.
Now I see the benefits. The deer my cousin got on his trail cam are insanely big. 10 wall hangers. And despite it being public land, we will be the only ones hunting that area.

 

[PAgeologist]

I disagree with any effort to hunt where your goal isn’t to cause the death as quickly as possible. I bow hunt, but I’ve not had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping. It’s over within minutes. Then I’ve seen trappers who find the coyote, etc dead from being stuck and not checked for long periods, in a painful trap. I’m willing to be educated if my understanding here is wrong, but leaving the animal afraid and in pain for long periods isn’t something I’m

I disagree with any effort to hunt where your goal isn’t to cause the death as quickly as possible. I bow hunt, but I’ve not had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping. It’s over within minutes. Then I’ve seen trappers who find the coyote, etc dead from being stuck and not checked for long periods, in a painful trap. I’m willing to be educated if my understanding here is wrong, but leaving the animal afraid and in pain for long periods isn’t something I’m into.

Setting traps and not checking them daily is unethical and I believe also illegal in PA.

 

[Cabinpenn]

Feral cats and house cats in the United States alone kill an estimated 2.4 BILLION birds a year. Cats are like candy to coyotes and any community that has coyotes does not have a feral cat problem which is great for the bird population. They do hunt deer, especially fawns, and anything else that lives in their territory. Their love for cat meat gives them a pass in general in my book unless they present some of the issues covered in this thread.

 

[cment]

I disagree with any effort to hunt where your goal isn’t to cause the death as quickly as possible. I bow hunt, but I’ve not had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping. It’s over within minutes. Then I’ve seen trappers who find the coyote, etc dead from being stuck and not checked for long periods, in a painful trap. I’m willing to be educated if my understanding here is wrong, but leaving the animal afraid and in pain for long periods isn’t something I’m into.

I disagree with any effort to hunt where your goal isn’t to cause the death as quickly as possible. I bow hunt, but I’ve not had a deer go more than 40 yards before dropping. It’s over within minutes. Then I’ve seen trappers who find the coyote, etc dead from being stuck and not checked for long periods, in a painful trap. I’m willing to be educated if my understanding here is wrong, but leaving the animal afraid and in pain for long periods isn’t something I’m into.

There is a reason why there is open season on coyotes and you have “witnessed” dead coyotes in traps I guess. In all my wonderings as a deer hunter, trapper, and most important grouse hunter, I have never seen a trap unattended.

Maybe my 100’s of miles of covering grouse and warning my dogs away from dirt hole sets as a previous trapper gives me a little perspective.

IMO- you hunt and are against trapping, you are a hypocrite.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I'll add that in PA there are way less hunters than even 10 years ago.

I was one of those who was fuming mad at the antler restrictions.
Now I see the benefits. The deer my cousin got on his trail cam are insanely big. 10 wall hangers. And despite it being public land, we will be the only ones hunting that area.

Agreed with antler restrictions. Used to be a “if it’s brown it’s down” kind of hunter. For food of course, but no concern to the quality of the herd. One good thing Ft Bragg has done is make a lot of their hunting areas archery only, but also made them QDMA. Carolina deer aren’t known for being big antlered deer but when QDMA is instituted it changes that dramatically. For instance where I hunt in one of the NTA’s (norther training area), the QDMA restriction is at least 3 points on 1 side OR an inside spread of at least 12 inches. Has done wonders to the quality of the buck population, as you can see here. Been following this guy all summer.

been following a few of these guys too….

 

[83wuzme]

Feral cats and house cats in the United States alone kill an estimated 2.4 BILLION birds a year. Cats are like candy to coyotes and any community that has coyotes does not have a feral cat problem which is great for the bird population. They do hunt deer, especially fawns, and anything else that lives in their territory. Their love for cat meat gives them a pass in general in my book unless they present some of the issues covered in this thread.

Keep your cats inside. We built an enclosure for ours to go outside. They really shouldn’t be part of the food chain. In North America, Bobcats occupy that position.

 

[PAgeologist]

Agreed with antler restrictions. Used to be a “if it’s brown it’s down” kind of hunter. For food of course, but no concern to the quality of the herd. One good thing Ft Bragg has done is make a lot of their hunting areas archery only, but also made them QDMA. Carolina deer aren’t known for being big antlered deer but when QDMA is instituted it changes that dramatically. For instance where I hunt in one of the NTA’s (norther training area), the QDMA restriction is at least 3 points on 1 side OR an inside spread of at least 12 inches. Has done wonders to the quality of the buck population, as you can see here. Been following this guy all summer.

been following a few of these guys too….

Now I actually agree with the 3 on a side. I don't like the 12 inch spread rule. You can't count that when deciding if it's a legal deer.

Then there is always the exception where a 4 point will have a 20 inch spread but will never grow a bigger rack.

 

[nittanyfan333]

Now I actually agree with the 3 on a side. I don't like the 12 inch spread rule. You can't count that when deciding if it's a legal deer.

Then there is always the exception where a 4 point will have a 20 inch spread but will never grow a bigger rack.

I agree. 3 on 1 side is completely quantitative. there's no guesswork to it. especially in archery. 12 inch spread is much more qualitative. granted easier to get a good estimate of spread due to the close range of archery. Good thing that bragg does is require check-in of every animal killed on post. I think that keeps people from shooting something that's close to the limit. however if you're the type that will kill something illegal, i'm willing to bet you're the type that won't check in your kill.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I agree. 3 on 1 side is completely quantitative. there's no guesswork to it. especially in archery. 12 inch spread is much more qualitative. granted easier to get a good estimate of spread due to the close range of archery. Good thing that bragg does is require check-in of every animal killed on post. I think that keeps people from shooting something that's close to the limit. however if you're the type that will kill something illegal, i'm willing to bet you're the type that won't check in your kill.

And some will shoot a deer, walk up to it, see it isn’t legal, and high tail out of there.

 

[nittanyfan333]

And some will shoot a deer, walk up to it, see it isn’t legal, and high tail out of there.

they're the same kind of people that liken trappers to serial killers and sex offenders....

 

[wbcincy]

There is a reason why there is open season on coyotes and you have “witnessed” dead coyotes in traps I guess. In all my wonderings as a deer hunter, trapper, and most important grouse hunter, I have never seen a trap unattended.

Maybe my 100’s of miles of covering grouse and warning my dogs away from dirt hole sets as a previous trapper gives me a little perspective.

IMO- you hunt and are against trapping, you are a hypocrite.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I don't believe I'm a hypocrite when there's a significant difference in the two activities. I don't think someone is a hypocrite if they only eat meat from certain farms that have different practices than the mills either. Sure, they both kill the animal to eat, but that doesn't make them the same.

 

[BBrown]

True, but a male Eastern Coyote is a 45-55 pound predator that has no difficulty taking down an adult deer and wouldn't struggle to do the same with young cattle or smaller farm animals. House pets are typically no match. When people hear about coyotes, many envision the Western Coyote which is roughly half the size and more of a pest than a threat. The eastern variety is something more than that.

That is definitely true. The ones I’ve seen back here are pretty decent sized and look good. The ones I’ve seen in Joshua tree, NM and AZ look a lot like the looney tunes version, kind of mangy and definitely smaller, at least weight wise. I guess the ones back here are eating better.
I like listening to them.🤷‍♂️

 

[Agoodnap]

That is definitely true. The ones I’ve seen back here are pretty decent sized and look good. The ones I’ve seen in Joshua tree, NM and AZ look a lot like the looney tunes version, kind of mangy and definitely smaller, at least weight wise. I guess the ones back here are eating better.
I like listening to them.🤷‍♂️

Many Eastern Coyotes are actually a mix of Red Wolf, Gray Wolf, and Coyote so they are usually bigger than their Western counterpart. Although they are typically called Coyotes the name for the cross-bred animal is Coywolf. Apparently the decline of the Wolf population led to the cross-breeding and hence this hybrid. Read all about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

 

[PAgeologist]

That is definitely true. The ones I’ve seen back here are pretty decent sized and look good. The ones I’ve seen in Joshua tree, NM and AZ look a lot like the looney tunes version, kind of mangy and definitely smaller, at least weight wise. I guess the ones back here are eating better.
I like listening to them.🤷‍♂️

I like listening to them also, just not near my yard. The ones in my area are getting bolder too. My neighbor had a standoff with one in her driveway. Time to set up the distressed rabbit call and crossbow. Unfortunately I have too many neighbors to shoot one with a firearm.

 

[GSPMax]

Sounds like that group of coyotes is suffering from a lead deficiency. Antidote, more lead in the diet.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Many Eastern Coyotes are actually a mix of Red Wolf, Gray Wolf, and Coyote so they are usually bigger than their Western counterpart. Although they are typically called Coyotes the name for the cross-bred animal is Coywolf. Apparently the decline of the Wolf population led to the cross-breeding and hence this hybrid. Read all about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coywolf

So the wolf population got so small that they didn’t care about coyote ugly......any port is a storm!

 

[PSUeng]

You're either bullshitting or haven't harvested many deer with a bow.

4 deer 2 with compound 2 with crossbow. No shot was over 30 yards. Maybe I an lucky. I have helped other track them. I am red/green color blind so I an very particular on my shots. I also tend to only hunts mornings with a bow for this reason

 

[PearlSUJam]

4 deer 2 with compound 2 with crossbow. No shot was over 30 yards. Maybe I an lucky. I have helped other track them. I am red/green color blind so I an very particular on my shots. I also tend to only hunts mornings with a bow for this reason

Red green colorblind as well brother and it sucks with tracking. I've taken a shit ton of deer with a bow and just want to let you know it's normal to track for a while after double lung shots.

 

[Creek Side]

Are they the same deer hunters that request an increase in the limits on hunting deer because they’re either already overpopulated or will become so without more hunting?

I would absolutely love for an increase in deer population just so I could have the opportunity to harvest more deer. I don’t think that’s anything to apologize for. But ultimately it comes down to maintaining a healthy population.

 

[PSU Mike]

I would absolutely love for an increase in deer population just so I could have the opportunity to harvest more deer. I don’t think that’s anything to apologize for. But ultimately it comes down to maintaining a healthy population.

But you do see my point, no? There are a number of hunters that will say kill coyotes because they’re killing deer. Then turn around and say let me kill more deer because there’s too many deer. The best explanation just may be they like to shoot things.

 

[demlion]

The fact is, the more pressure you put on coyote survival, the more they increase their litter size and frequency. They are here to stay.

 

[HartfordLlion]

Deer population is a controversial subject. The forestry and insurance industry want far fewer deer. Lots of Ag people too. In many areas across the state the deer had overbrowsed to forest to the point there was little undergrowth. Which means less food, cover, and nesting for other species. Also,damaged forest growth and lots of car damage.

Fifteen years ago the GC issued huge amounts of doe licenses to decrease the population. It dropped the population by a large percentage which pissed off a lot of hunters. But other new regs on antler size, coupled with a healthier herd have led to a lot of trophy bucks so now most hunters are happy.

When I was down in NOVA a couple of decades ago, Virginia had way more deer in the state than colonial times. It's the same for most New England States. Up in Erie PA where I grew up they had to institute controlled hunts on Presque Isle State Park. The dear population pushed past 100 and they were dying from a brain wasting disease due to over population. They eventually culled them back to about a dozen. Since in most areas the habitat is very conducive to deer population growth and the deer have very few natural predators, you almost have to have human intervention to cull the herd. If not, disease and starvation will result. Maybe tree huggers think deer starving to death is a better fate than a bullet.

 

[doofis]

Shout out to my fellow hunters here. The first conservationists are still the best (Google "Pittman Robertson Act").

p.s. I trapped one coyote here three years ago - after a few seasons of trying. 40 lb. male in a dirt hole set (#2 coil spring) in late November. One of the greatest thrills in my 58 years of loving the outdoors. People who don't trap generally don't know how difficult it is to fool/catch a coyote. All equipment must be boiled to remove scent... Rubber gloves, rubber boots, etc., etc. btw - there was not even a mark on the coyote's paw. Law-abiding, ethical trappers check their traps daily.

I treasure that coyote catch. I skinned and tanned the beautiful pelt. Made a skull mount. Made 8x10's.

It (or they) was killing all of my Amish buddy's chickens. He stopped losing chickens after that catch.

But one coyote was enough for me. I like knowing they're out there. Wild.

What's sad to me is going back to the Lancaster County of my childhood and seeing that farms have been replaced by developments and strip malls. So yeah... love the howling of coyotes around my little farm.

 

[The Spin Meister]

When I was down in NOVA a couple of decades ago, Virginia had way more deer in the state than colonial times. It's the same for most New England States. Up in Erie PA where I grew up they had to institute controlled hunts on Presque Isle State Park. The dear population pushed past 100 and they were dying from a brain wasting disease due to over population. They eventually culled them back to about a dozen. Since in most areas the habitat is very conducive to deer population growth and the deer have very few natural predators, you almost have to have human intervention to cull the herd. If not, disease and starvation will result. Maybe tree huggers think deer starving to death is a better fate than a bullet.

Furthermore, deer do tremendous damage to forests, crops, and grasslands. A park in New Mexico didn’t allow deer hunting for decades. It had so much damage......deforestation, erosion, invasive species, and more.....it will take decades to recover.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

I like listening to them also, just not near my yard. The ones in my area are getting bolder too. My neighbor had a standoff with one in her driveway. Time to set up the distressed rabbit call and crossbow. Unfortunately I have too many neighbors to shoot one with a firearm.

if you have way too many neighbors then shooting just one with a firearm is probably no big deal

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

I would think any product from Acme should work. Anvil, piano, TNT, fake tunnel paint, boulders, rockets, locomotive, the usual stuff.

 

[Eyecatcher]

But you do see my point, no? There are a number of hunters that will say kill coyotes because they’re killing deer. Then turn around and say let me kill more deer because there’s too many deer. The best explanation just may be they like to shoot things.

Coyotes don’t care about the carrying capacity they just move on, and decimate another area (and not only the deer population).

 

[Nitt1300]

Coyotes don’t care about the carrying capacity they just move on, and decimate another area (and not only the deer population).

humans do the same thing