OT: Live University/Fraternity Shaming coming up at 10AM (link)...
- Thread starter MtNittany
- Start date
Piazza was given alcohol by fraternity members, his BAC was .40 (!), he fell down the stairs multiple times that night and the next morning, and fraternity members hid the fact that he had fallen when they called for help.
I can't say the charges - even involuntary manslaughter - are unwarranted. Just because fraternities have made this type of behavior a tradition doesn't make it acceptable.
I can't say the charges - even involuntary manslaughter - are unwarranted. Just because fraternities have made this type of behavior a tradition doesn't make it acceptable.
Is Erickson there? Since he was alive when these kids were born, he should feel obligated to apologize.
But in all seriousness, this is a bad situation. A lot of mistakes were made, and if any of us were parents of that kid we'd be livid.
But in all seriousness, this is a bad situation. A lot of mistakes were made, and if any of us were parents of that kid we'd be livid.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I also got drunk and fell a lot in college - where do I sign up for payment?
Innocent until proven guilty, but let's let the victim's parents speak at the same press conference in which charges were announced.
Charges are no longer proven in the court room, they are proven in the media. SPM is following the lead.
How many non-Fraternity alcohol related deaths occurred at PSU last year?
Looked up what the effect of a .40 BAC:
Onset of coma, possible death due to respiratory arrest.
He fell several times that night. He was really drunk.
But it's the other brothers' fault for not being able to identify he wasn't just really drunk.
But it's the other brothers' fault for not being able to identify he wasn't just really drunk.
isnt this to announce charges...why bring so much emotion into it by letting the parents speak. I get that they are upset and they have every right to be angry, but why does everything have to be such a big show.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Yes - necessary to combat my ceaseless ennui. Or was it the other way around....?
She's running for re-election. And she apparently was mentored by Linda Kelly in how to try the case in the media and have the results of the trials be secondary.
"Read the presentment"
Gee, because that's never been a problem before
Gee, because that's never been a problem before
Pretty staggering amount of alcohol in one's system. Hard to imagine somebody could imbibe that much without first losing consciousness.
No, it's the other brothers' fault for giving him enough alcohol for it to happen. They made the decision to give a minor enough alcohol that his BAC was at fatal levels, and now that decision has a consequence.
Couple of thoughts here.
First, is that OK? Is that ideal? I think the threshold here is that somebody died.
Second, "negligence" is the issue. You can drive the speed limit on an icy road, but if it is so icy that you ignored conditions and caused a fatality due to your willful negligence, you can be charged and convicted. At some point, a line needs to be drawn on when enough is enough. When a kid dies, that line has been crossed.
Third, prosecutors over charge. They do this on purpose to give them wiggle room to offer something to plead out. Also, to shock and intimidate the accused. I'd be surprised to see convictions on this level. I see more of misdemeanors. But who knows what really happened and who may be complicit (and to what level).
Finally, I see this as a 'level set'. A kid died. Laws were broken. To save other kids, examples are going to be made. I feel bad for these kids. But I can tell you I always took care of kids that were drunk (carried a kid or two off of railroad tracks that were used by Amtrak at 2am) and I never got drunk to the point of complete inebriation.
My brother took me to PSU when I was 16 and I got drunk. I felt horrible for three days. I thought "was this worth it?" Do I need to use a stimulus to make myself think I am having a good time? I am not sure that event was the seminal moment, but it was really good for me. Today, if I have two drinks a week, its been a BIG week. I am very, very happy with that.
you would think these kids would have shown some level of restraint on the drinking...especially with a complete camera system watching their every move.
The law says it is. "A person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when as a direct result of the doing of an unlawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, or the doing of a lawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, he causes the death of another person."
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Fraternities and other organizations have to learn that hazing is a terribly unsafe and unnecessary rite of passage. People like to claim that hazing isn't happening but it still is and to some ways more intense than ever.
it is a real shame that kids are losing their lives to belong to organizations and teams.
it is a real shame that kids are losing their lives to belong to organizations and teams.
We get it, no one ever affiliated with PSU has ever committed a crime. Ever. It just isn't possible.
Standard Operating Procedure today by prosecutors. They have unlimited funding and resources. They will try to overwhelm the defense; wear them out. They'll dump a truckload of documentation on a court appointed defense attorney who is going to make $250 on the case (in other words, he/she isn't going to spend the time)
Prosecuting Attorneys want convictions, at any cost.
It is our justice system right now.
The aggravated assault charges are actually felonies, compared to the IM charge which is a misdemeanor.
They knowingly provided him alcohol as a minor and then failed to get him medical care until well after his second fall. Seems pretty reckless and negligent.
Yes, and a jury will ultimately decide that, as juries do for almost every criminal charge. But you can't tell me that there's no argument to be made that the activities undertaken by the fraternity that led to Piazza's death rose to the level of recklessness or gross negligence.
I got drunk in college and fell, and jerry sandusky grabbed me to catch my fall. Joe knew and did nothing. This all happened twice. True story. These incidents still haunt me.
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