OT: PSU fraternity system on the ropes. Down to 36 chapters from 54 not long ago. Houses being suspended and shut down by the University.
- Thread starter LealandLoyal
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Penn State Sorority, Chi Omega, Investigated Over Racist Image
Penn State's chapter of Chi Omega facing punishments after a racially offensive image of the sorority surfaced online of the sisters mocking Mexicans.onwardstate.com
All white girls and one Asian (from what I can see). What ever happened to them?
For those who were in fraternities - outside of the parties and meeting girls (and making friends), what other productive things did you or your frat do (for society at large)? Or was that not part of the mandate? Was it just about living together? Genuinely curious.
Also 0% shocked that @Lion Son/Husband/Father was in a frat. 😬
If anything, the frats have been a victim of their own stupidity. Day-to-day behavior is a race to the bottom - most live in squalor and could give a crap about tradition. There are a few good eggs but the peer pressure to keep up norms or demonstrate even the smallest amount of etiquette is largely gone. They’re mainly boarding houses for rich kids who like cheap liquor.
He was not. Just visited for the beer and weed.
I always thought frats were bullsh*t. Never understood it. The whole thing reeked of insecurity to me.
Oh so wrong you are. I loved my years in my frat in the 90s but am frustrated after watching it go to crap over the past 30 years. I did remodel projects, donated furniture which was destroyed within a year, volunteered on the alumni council and watched the brotherhood expect more while putting in less work to keep up the house and manage operations. IMO, the decline has had nothing to do with real estate or PSU administration. It has more to do with two other factors (1) socializing is now a digital phenomenon so there is less appreciation for old school human interaction (2) fraternities used to be THE place for amenities (pool tables, basement bars, lounge areas) but are now massively outclassed by every new student housing complex. So the offering is just less compelling and is attracting guys who want easy access to liquor and sorority girls with the veneer of ‘prestige’. Again, there a some really good young guys in the system but they are greatly outnumbered and usually move out when they realize how much work is needed and how little it is appreciated by their brothers.
It isn’t that they are, organically, not interested. Rather, it is that a value system has been shoved down their throats since elementary school that is hostile to institutions such as fraternities. They have been taught that fraternities and the like are racist, sexist, bigoted, pick your pejorative descriptor.
Congratulations! Tucker Carlson will be sending you your ‘white frat guys are the REAL victims’ merit badge in a few days.
Greek life has to face the reality that unless major cultural changes are made they won’t draw enough new members they will die a slow death. And I’m not talking politically here, but there needs to be renewed focus on outreach to new students, what they can offer, how connections made can benefit you later in life. Maybe fix up the houses a bit - it’s been decades since I spent time in various frats and even back then things were pretty rough.
THON is amazing and something to absolutely hang their hats on, but there needs to be more to greek life and that message needs to get to the freshmen whenever rushing is allowed.
Again been a long time for me so I don’t know how it is currently but another issue that needs to be addressed is hazing. You can put all the anti-hazing policies in place but unless it actually stops it’s going to continue to drive folks away. My god the stories I heard from guys rushing were terrible and I wouldn’t wish that treatment on most of my enemies. The zoomers have had years of anti-bullying and anti-harassment programs - they’re not going to put up with that treatment when they have other options for socialization and living options.
THON is amazing and something to absolutely hang their hats on, but there needs to be more to greek life and that message needs to get to the freshmen whenever rushing is allowed.
Again been a long time for me so I don’t know how it is currently but another issue that needs to be addressed is hazing. You can put all the anti-hazing policies in place but unless it actually stops it’s going to continue to drive folks away. My god the stories I heard from guys rushing were terrible and I wouldn’t wish that treatment on most of my enemies. The zoomers have had years of anti-bullying and anti-harassment programs - they’re not going to put up with that treatment when they have other options for socialization and living options.
There are several options we are investigating including those you mentioned and some other possibilities. We’ve had zero alcohol infractions in two years and, quite frankly, many of the “infractions” coming out of the university are beyond ridiculous. There is a movement by many current fraternities to move out from under the school’s draconian rules.
The issue is insurance. If you aren’t associated with PSU, then the National Chapter will drop you. If you’re not part of the National chapter, its next to impossible to get insurance. Insurance is about spreading risk...if you have 120+ chapters nationally, an underwriter can price that risk, and the economics are such that insurance isn’t crazy expensive for each individual chapter (like $200 per guy per semester as part of your house bill.). That number increases by a factor of 10 if you get a carrier to write insurance for one single house. Then truly only rich kids could live there. Then your occupancy declines and you become cash flow negative, with even the most established chapters only able to draw on their capital reserves for no more than 3 to 5 years to pay operating costs. Don’t know if there’s a way for all of the PSU chapters to ban together in order to make the insurance economics work...if you had 40 or 50 chapters ban together, it might work.
Once Greek life dies, and I think it’s only a matter of time, it would be cool if the houses became alumni clubs. Would likely take significant capital dollars to renovate them to the point that they are nice enough for alumni to spend $500/night to occupy a room. If accommodations were nice enough, I could see a BNB vibe being very popular. Could potentially work with houses like Beta, SAE, Sigma Chi, Sigma Pi, ATO, Chi Phi, etc. May have to figure out other ways to generate revenue (event space rental perhaps?). And if they are ultimately going to be developed for condos/apartments, keeping the front facade from those houses as part of the development would be cool, although likely too expensive versus raising and starting from scratch.
It is sort of sad. I was in ATO when fraternities were at their peak. We all ate lunch and dinner together with sport jackets required for dinner no less! We had a live-in house mother who was escorted into the dining room by the president before the rest were seated. There was a beautiful ritual that was highly respected by the brothers. The hazing was mostly fun and built pledge class unity. Parties - almost all beer from a central keg. No cans, no bottles, rare hard booze. Taps were shut down at 1:00am and all women had to be back in dorms by 2am. No women upstairs, as they were protected by the house mother who would let no one pass to the upper floors. Friday parties were casual, Saturday usually had coat and tie. Pledges cleaned the house and lawns. Taught us respect for our house.
Well, the university banned kegs. Mistake, mistake. That meant loss of control of the alcohol and who was permitted to drink. It meant cans being taken from the house to other places. Hard liquor in rooms upstairs. No more house mothers - the upstair's rooms became a Holiday Inn. Trouble looking for an opportunity to show its face. Authority of the brotherhood, officers and corporate boards was minimal if any. No effective IFC. No pledge class unity and care for house - just hand-maidens to lazy ass brothers. No spirit.
It is a symptom of something which I am not totally aware of transpiring culturally. I am a Freemason and I see our membership declining as well as in concordant Masonic groups such as the Shriners. It is a shame as Masonry and our Shriners do so much good most of which is anonymous. Such is our society it seems. Sad.
Well, the university banned kegs. Mistake, mistake. That meant loss of control of the alcohol and who was permitted to drink. It meant cans being taken from the house to other places. Hard liquor in rooms upstairs. No more house mothers - the upstair's rooms became a Holiday Inn. Trouble looking for an opportunity to show its face. Authority of the brotherhood, officers and corporate boards was minimal if any. No effective IFC. No pledge class unity and care for house - just hand-maidens to lazy ass brothers. No spirit.
It is a symptom of something which I am not totally aware of transpiring culturally. I am a Freemason and I see our membership declining as well as in concordant Masonic groups such as the Shriners. It is a shame as Masonry and our Shriners do so much good most of which is anonymous. Such is our society it seems. Sad.
The fraternities have become an insurance liability for the university. (Beta Theta Pi amongst others). They would rather house everyone in dorms or downtown apartments (which are more out of control than the fraternities!). But the University has little responsibility for those housed in private apartments. And of course, the vulture realtors and the SC powers that run things have long had their eyes on property that could better serve as space for money-making apartments. SC no longer has any charm. $$$$$$$ has made its impact I fear. That goes for dear old PSU as well. That is why I finally did not renew my season tickets after having them since the mid-70's. $1500. weekends are just too much for a less-than-rewarding experience. It has gotten too big. There still is not a good restaurant in town since Zola's closed. At least they could have gotten one of the top steakhouse chains - Morton's, Ruth Chris. Well, I guess I am getting old!!!
I picture you as someone who felt secure because when you saw everyone else had the same sweatshirt with the same letters on as you, you felt loved. They had to be your friend, but they didn't want to be.
Incorrect ... at least the first part. Sigma Chi has several chapters under National that are not associated with their university that are thriving. Best example is Sigma Chi at Morgantown that is doing very well despite not being recognized by WVU.
DrJC nails it in his last two posts. The first about changes in fraternity houses I would only add the mentality of today’s college students (at least at my fraternity). There are still a lot of very nice kids out there but an increasing number of, for lack of a better term, spoiled brats. They come from money, have no respect for authority or anyone for that matter and zero self-accountability. Add in the university’s attempt at eliminating all liability and you have a perfect storm against Greek life.
I don’t know as much about your second post about State College, but I clearly see what you mention. I used to want to retire to State College, but with all of the changes to the town I am now looking at other options. It really is a crying shame what is happening to my Alma mater and the college town surrounding it!
They were like geniuses getting MTV with rabbit ears.
That kind of deep thought and observation is what separates you from the regular tomboard posters. RESPECT
Unfortunately, I agree. When I went back to ATO in the fall, we returned a week early to get the lawn cut, hedges trimmed, and do minor exterior painting. It was OUR HOUSE and we took pride in it. Over the years, I saw that mentality dwindle and then disappear. As a corporation member, we purchased a new power mower, fertilizer, etc. and it never got used. They felt we should hire landscapers to do that type of work! Too many never cut their own lawns at home. I wanted them to do the lawns and maintain the house not out of a need to save money, but to instill a sense of pride and participation in their house. l am a fu_king dinosaur, I know, I know.
We did the same things as all other college students.....with one possible exception: charitable work
I did not do a damn thing charity-wise until I joined a fraternity. Let's face it, the largest student-run charity in the world is what it is today because of the Greeks. We also supported the other Greeks in their charities, such as the food drive held by one frat. Greeks also organized many of the older campus traditions, many of which no longer exist (e.g., Phi Psi 500). Hell, even the Homecoming parade would suck without the Greeks.
I have also heard that Greeks give more money back to their schools than non-Greeks.
So then I have to ask, what did you do for society at large as a non-Greek at PSU?
It is a different world now, the reason that Frats were 'invented/came to be' many, many years ago and then flourished for so long just no longer is applicable in today's society. Some for good reasons, many for not so good reasons. Whether or not one believes that is a good thing, or a bad thing, or just doesn't care, the reality is that it is not going to change.
I worked because I needed money to live on my own. My parents were woefully unprepared to send me to college (my dad is retired USMC) and while I took some loans, I also supported myself and helped ease some of the burden they had to incur.
Did you have someone make you dinner every night?
"Crisis is the rally cry of the tyrant." - James Madison
"Never let a crisis go to waste." Rahm Emanuel
I think it's fair to say that the University has been antagonistic toward the Greek system for a long time.
COVID is being used as an excuse at all levels of organizations and governments to further long-time policy goals.
In this case, people who have a near zero chance of dying, let alone even getting substantially sick, are being told they cannot live their lives. It doesn't matter that there is no statistical difference between state/locality that are mostly open and those that are mostly closed. The university wants the greek system gone or marginalized as much as possible, and it will use whatever tool it has to squeeze it.
Curious, when were you a brother there. I liked your post so much about how it used to be with the traditions, dinner, suits, etc. When was that happening?
Thanks for being honest about doing nothing productive for society at large during your time at PSU.
While I only worked summers during college, I funded my education 100% thru loans, grants and summer work. My parents didn't spend a dime of their own money on my education....they had none to spare, anyway....except for some treats that mom would send up occasionally.
I also had several fraternity brothers that needed to work during school to fund their education, as not all were spoiled rich kids. One even took entire semesters off to earn enough for another semester.
My dinner was made for me freshman year (dorm) and senior year (fraternity).....the 2 years in between I made my own at my apartment.
And we did all of that while still doing charitable work.
