OT: PSU fraternity system on the ropes. Down to 36 chapters from 54 not long ago. Houses being suspended and shut down by the University.

[Player2BNamedL8r]

It isn’t that they are, organically, not interested. Rather, it is that a value system has been shoved down their throats since elementary school that is hostile to institutions such as fraternities. They have been taught that fraternities and the like are racist, sexist, bigoted, pick your pejorative descriptor.

Not sure that it’s been shoved down their throats, but I get what you’re saying. Thus is the manner in which shifts in culture take place. Another reason is likely that kids growing up in the digital age have discovered whole new social platforms to interact with each other. The Greek system is not immune to fossilization.

 

[Midnighter2]

Thanks for being honest about doing nothing productive for society at large during your time at PSU.

While I only worked summers during college, I funded my education 100% thru loans, grants and summer work. My parents didn't spend a dime of their own money on my education....they had none to spare, anyway....except for some treats that mom would send up occasionally.

I also had several fraternity brothers that needed to work during school to fund their education, as not all were spoiled rich kids. One even took entire semesters off to earn enough for another semester.

My dinner was made for me freshman year (dorm) and senior year (fraternity).....the 2 years in between I made my own at my apartment.

And we did all of that while still doing charitable work.

I made up for it in the Army.

 

[travisk]

My old house comes w/ a double lot. Imagine how many condos they could build here!

What year/years were you there? I was there from 93-95.

 

[MtNittany]

What year/years were you there? I was there from 93-95.

About a decade earlier.

 

[86Engineer]

I made up for it in the Army.

Well you did have all that extra time, since you had someone making you dinner every night.

 

[KCLion]

We did the same things as all other college students.....with one possible exception: charitable work

I did not do a damn thing charity-wise until I joined a fraternity. Let's face it, the largest student-run charity in the world is what it is today because of the Greeks. We also supported the other Greeks in their charities, such as the food drive held by one frat. Greeks also organized many of the older campus traditions, many of which no longer exist (e.g., Phi Psi 500). Hell, even the Homecoming parade would suck without the Greeks.

I have also heard that Greeks give more money back to their schools than non-Greeks.

So then I have to ask, what did you do for society at large as a non-Greek at PSU?

I remember Chi Phi had their Push-upathon for Cystic Fibrosis as well.

 

[MtNittany]

I remember Chi Phi had their Push-upathon for Cystic Fibrosis as well.

Well trained during pledging

 

[Still in State College]

I am not sure if it has happened but locally it seems that with the explosion that is THON individual chapters seem to have abandoned their national charities. Like I said this just might be perception but I see very little fundraising beyond THON.

 

[MtNittany]

I am not sure if it has happened but locally it seems that with the explosion that is THON individual chapters seem to have abandoned their national charities. Like I said this just might be perception but I see very little fundraising beyond THON.

No Sigma Pi Open?

 

[nits74]

I, like many here, was also in a fraternity. Made many friends (several of whom are close, life long friends), enjoyed the interaction with the sororities, etc. This said, I find myself regretting participating in Greek life. I feel as though I got so caught up in that bubble, that I may have missed out on so much more of what Penn State at the time had to offer, both academically and socially. This is just my personal take, but it all seems sort of shallow to me now.

 

[Bessmoney]

Incorrect ... at least the first part. Sigma Chi has several chapters under National that are not associated with their university that are thriving. Best example is Sigma Chi at Morgantown that is doing very well despite not being recognized by WVU.

Sigma Chi would be the exception then. Most National fraternities require their chapters to be affiliated with the University in order to maintain their Charter with the National HQ. I say this as someone who’s chapter at PSU wanted to drop from nationals (we couldn’t because of insurance costs). I also worked for Nationals for a semester as a recruiter between graduating and starting my finance career in New York. That was almost 15 years ago so maybe the game is changing because of all of the crackdowns on Greek Life at major universities?

 

[BobPSU92]

I remember Chi Phi had their Push-upathon for Cystic Fibrosis as well.

Well trained during pledging

Did it have to do with with bras? Well trained for what?

 

[PAstr]

I worked because I needed money to live on my own. My parents were woefully unprepared to send me to college (my dad is retired USMC) and while I took some loans, I also supported myself and helped ease some of the burden they had to incur.

Did you have someone make you dinner every night?

At our fraternity, the pledges and brothers did do the majority of the work. Mopping and polishing floors, washing and putting away dishes, cleaning bathrooms, taking out the trash were all accomplished daily. Mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, trimming hedges, pulling weeds, applying fertilizer etc. we’re done as conditions required. More extensive tasks like painting, carpentry work, replacing hardwood floors, refinishing furniture etc. we’re typically accomplished by alumni and brothers during summer work weeks. All of these things we’re done by pledges and brothers. We did employ a cook who made lunches and dinners during the week . We were on our own on the weekend. The budget for the kitchen, however, was managed by one of the brothers.

After dinners, a large group of brothers would head to the library together. Pledges had mandatory study sessions. At that time, the average fraternity GPA was significantly higher than that of the general student population.

We participated in virtually every IM sporting event available.

We were involved in a multitude of charities to include our own, other greek organizations’, and of course THON.

We participated in homecoming. Can you imagine he homecoming parade without Greek participation?

Virtually every brother in my house was involved with some extracurricular activity that contributed to the university; Lion Ambasadors, varsity or club teams, academic clubs, cheerleading, big brother program, student government etc.

I guess I’d say to the people that are bagging on fraternity life, “you either don’t know what you’re talking about, or you had a bad experience with someone who was involved with one. Or, perhaps, you were unsuccessful while pursuing a bid”

Because so much of the labor was done by the members, our costs per a person were very comparable to living in the dorm with a meal plan. He difference was that our “fees” included a social budget.

 

[Midnighter2]

At our fraternity, the pledges and brothers did do the majority of the work. Mopping and polishing floors, washing and putting away dishes, cleaning bathrooms, taking out the trash were all accomplished daily. Mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, trimming hedges, pulling weeds, applying fertilizer etc. we’re done as conditions required. More extensive tasks like painting, carpentry work, replacing hardwood floors, refinishing furniture etc. we’re typically accomplished by alumni and brothers during summer work weeks. All of these things we’re done by pledges and brothers. We did employ a cook who made lunches and dinners during the week . We were on our own on the weekend. The budget for the kitchen, however, was managed by one of the brothers.

After dinners, a large group of brothers would head to the library together. Pledges had mandatory study sessions. At that time, the average fraternity GPA was significantly higher than that of the general student population.

We participated in virtually every IM sporting event available.

We were involved in a multitude of charities to include our own, other greek organizations’, and of course THON.

We participated in homecoming. Can you imagine he homecoming parade without Greek participation?

Virtually every brother in my house was involved with some extracurricular activity that contributed to the university; Lion Ambasadors, varsity or club teams, academic clubs, cheerleading, big brother program, student government etc.

I guess I’d say to the people that are bagging on fraternity life, “you either don’t know what you’re talking about, or you had a bad experience with someone who was involved with one. Or, perhaps, you were unsuccessful while pursuing a bid”

Because so much of the labor was done by the members, our costs per a person were very comparable to living in the dorm with a meal plan. He difference was that our “fees” included a social budget.

I’m not bagging on frat life - I wasn’t interested and still wouldn’t be today. I’d tell my kids to take a look if they wanted, but don’t do it just to say you did it. It sounds like you had a good experience and everyone around you learned life skills by doing (something to be said for cleaning your house, etc.). But those things aren’t unique to frats which is why I asked about mission/mandate beyond parties, meeting girls, and hanging out. Thanks for your response.

 

[LealandLoyal]

The way it used to work was that you would rush as a freshman, get a bid, and then move in to the house as a sophomore and pledge. That all changed when the University, after the Piazza incident, banned rushing until the second half of freshman year. And State College land(slum)lords have falsely advertised that freshman must sign up for an apartment lease before November of their freshman year or not get one. That is patently false with all the new high rise apartments; the supply now far exceeds the demand. With no rush until after the artificial deadline for having to sign an apartment lease, no longer by and large do sophomores live in fraternity houses. Financially the frats cannot survive not having sophomores live in the house. The University administration knows this (thanks, Demon Sims), but won't alleviate the stress and either let freshman rush earlier or affirmatively and publicly dispel the notion that freshman must sign up for a dorm or apartment lease before Halloween. It is a death spiral for the frats.

 

[DrJC]

Curious, when were you a brother there. I liked your post so much about how it used to be with the traditions, dinner, suits, etc. When was that happening?

I was a brother 1963-1966. The real changes began in the mid 70's, especially with the advent of a lot of drugs.

 

[joeparules]

Sigma Chi would be the exception then. Most National fraternities require their chapters to be affiliated with the University in order to maintain their Charter with the National HQ. I say this as someone who’s chapter at PSU wanted to drop from nationals (we couldn’t because of insurance costs). I also worked for Nationals for a semester as a recruiter between graduating and starting my finance career in New York. That was almost 15 years ago so maybe the game is changing because of all of the crackdowns on Greek Life at major universities?

One newer option is joining a national IFC. It allows you to stay in good graces with your national/international fraternity while telling Penn State to (kindly) f_ck off. Tri Delt sorority is now a “student organization” called Trilogy and they participate in THON and have socials with fraternities just like a sorority but don’t have to be under PSU’s draconian rule.

 

[Bessmoney]

The way it used to work was that you would rush as a freshman, get a bid, and then move in to the house as a sophomore and pledge. That all changed when the University, after the Piazza incident, banned rushing until the second half of freshman year. And State College land(slum)lords have falsely advertised that freshman must sign up for an apartment lease before November of their freshman year or not get one. That is patently false with all the new high rise apartments; the supply now far exceeds the demand. With no rush until after the artificial deadline for having to sign an apartment lease, no longer by and large do sophomores live in fraternity houses. Financially the frats cannot survive not having sophomores live in the house. The University administration knows this (thanks, Demon Sims), but won't alleviate the stress and either let freshman rush earlier or affirmatively and publicly dispel the notion that freshman must sign up for a dorm or apartment lease before Halloween. It is a death spiral for the frats.

This. I was talking to the actives living in the chapter house. Only 22 guys and they were all juniors and seniors. Had another 20 sophomores who live outside the house in apartments because they couldn’t get out of their leases after they completed pledging in the Spring. The whole thing was done by design. The $1M question:
1. Is the university trying to mitigate liability?
Or
2. Is it a long term real estate play to develop the sites these houses occupy into more student housing?

I think it’s #1 personally. Everyone I talk to who’s connected says the Lawyers run Penn State, not the admin.

 

[DrJC]

I find this topic interesting and strangely may have some meaning for what we are experiencing today with college football. I am sure some will consider it a "reach, " but think about it" before dismissing my thoughts. When I was a pledge/brother at ATO, there was an allegiance to the well-being of the brotherhood and the maintenance of our home - the fraternity house. Everyone participated and if you violated that notion (surely, some few did), you were disciplined by the officers of the house or on rare occasions asked not to return. Very rarely, especially after being brotherized, did anyone ever consider relinquishing their "pin" and seeking out membership in another fraternity. You stayed and contributed and your efforts were appreciated. We ate, partied, and played together and it was a rewarding feeling to have this new family. In fact, my closest friends in life were my pledge brothers and fellow ATO brothers - to this day actually, over 55 years later!! The only real exceptions to this were a few fellow troopers from my military service.

My father taught me the value of our rather humble home. Along with my father, I did the landscaping of the property - gardening, flowers, and lawns. We did minor repairs and constantly painted inside and out. It was a family home - it was where we convened, barbecued, celebrated holidays and special events, and simply lived. Many of my peers had the same or similar experiences and that became who we are today. That was transported to PSU and of course my fraternal life. I respected my fraternity as a family and home - that is why I stayed on the corporate board for decades after graduating.

But with each passing decade, I saw the deterioration of those values I felt were necessary to be part of a fraternity and to prosper as a brotherhood. Slowly but inexorably, the fraternity became more an illusion of a fraternity. There would be a few activities that seemed fraternal - mainly Thon. But care for the physical plant, dining together, respecting the ritual that bonded us together, having some outrageously fun social events, I.M. participation, etc. went to the trash heap, replaced by drugs, out-of-control drinking, isolated eating in their little enclaves, disrespect for women guests, etc. There were no self-imposed restraints by individual brothers or the brotherhood as a whole. Simply, it seemed like a convening of narcissists using the notion of a fraternity to act-out, with little regard for consequences. Sorry, but it is more than this dinosaur can watch. I have not returned to the house in ten years or so.

I see the beginnings of something not so different with college football. Allegiance more to yourself than to your team. Unwillingness to pledge so to speak. The need to play immediately or transfer - often with not such good results. - Silas Redd! I was so incredibly proud of Mauti and those who stayed to resurrect the tradition of PSU football after the Sandusky debacle. That to me, was BROTHERHOOD! Those are guys you would share a foxhole with in combat. But they are few and far between in today's portal world.

Rant is over. Sorry guys. Just my thoughts. But still PSU proud.

 

[Nitwit]

We all like to hang onto the traditions, places, people that made our lives unique, special, and enjoyable. But things change over time, sometimes but not always for the better. Whether it’s progress, transition, or evolution is debatable. I think some of the appeal of MAGA was a desire to return to a simpler time. But for others it was a return to a time when life was not so good, and the desire to change was more appealing. So as we’ve seen this past year, college life is not what we remember and will unlikely be what it used to be. Sports will be different in the future. State College will look and feel different. It’s been happening for a while although it seems like the process of change has accelerated. We really don’t have much choice other to adapt or reject change as our comfort level permits. The forces of change are too overwhelming and encompassing.

 

[LealandLoyal]

So the writing is on the wall. There likely will be no fraternities at Penn State by 2025. What does State College do with all the big hulking ~100-year old mansions in the Borough? Will they sit there empty as reminders of a glorious past? Will the sororities co-op them? Will they be knocked down and replaced with Soviet-style apartment blocks? Can they survive as independent rooming houses?

 

[DrJC]

We all like to hang onto the traditions, places, people that made our lives unique, special, and enjoyable. But things change over time, sometimes but not always for the better. Whether it’s progress, transition, or evolution is debatable. I think some of the appeal of MAGA was a desire to return to a simpler time. But for others it was a return to a time when life was not so good, and the desire to change was more appealing. So as we’ve seen this past year, college life is not what we remember and will unlikely be what it used to be. Sports will be different in the future. State College will look and feel different. It’s been happening for a while although it seems like the process of change has accelerated. We really don’t have much choice other to adapt or reject change as our comfort level permits. The forces of change are too overwhelming and encompassing.

You say the choices are are adapt or reject. There is another - to shape change and the future by active participation

 

[MtNittany]

I think some of the appeal of MAGA was a desire to return to a simpler time...

You should stop trying to think. It isn't working.

Curious why you get to make constant political posts here while others have their posts edited and censored?

 

[Nitwit]

You should stop trying to think. It isn't working.

Curious why you get to make constant political posts here while others have their posts edited and censored?

Good question although I don’t think my post was at all political. Why do you think it was?

 

[Nitwit]

You say the choices are are adapt or reject. There is another - to shape change and the future by active participation

Exactly right. Change doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It happens because people make it happen. It’s interesting to see how other colleges and the areas around them have changed. Drexel for example hired a president who is not an academic, but rather real estate development specialist to reshape that part of university city. He did the same at Penn and to a lesser extent at F&M. Temple has been changing from a commuter school to a residential campus because it’s in such a bad neighborhood that needed tremendous improvements to happen first. There are a lot of interesting things going on all over and not everyone likes the results. Digital books and music, electric vehicles, commercial space travel, plant based burgers, crypto currency....what else? Will we remember the days when we carried pocket change?

 

[Cletus11]

Remember, this all started back with Spanier who literally let it be known that one of his prime objectives was to eliminate under age college drinking and was the first PSU president to actively go after the Frats and students by using everything within the universities power to do so including getting in bed with the state college police and borough politicians to make it happen. Hot Rod just extended that and now Barron continued the effort. There is a monetary reason for insurance/liability reasons, there is $$$ reason as we have found out is controlled by a select few elites in State college that make a lot of money with real estate which factors into it, and the third leg of the stool is the academic elites wanting to go after frats because they just don't' like them, let's call this the Animal House effect.

 

[86Engineer]

I, like many here, was also in a fraternity. Made many friends (several of whom are close, life long friends), enjoyed the interaction with the sororities, etc. This said, I find myself regretting participating in Greek life. I feel as though I got so caught up in that bubble, that I may have missed out on so much more of what Penn State at the time had to offer, both academically and socially. This is just my personal take, but it all seems sort of shallow to me now.

What do you feel you missed out on, and why?

I feel just the opposite. Being in a fraternity, I feel that I experienced so much more at PSU than I probably would have had I stayed independent. Examples include marching in the Homecoming parade, performing on stage at Eisenhower (as bad a performance as it was) and participating in the Dance Marathon.

 

[DrJC]

Cletus11 I agree with you in many ways. What you are presenting is the dark, dirty underside of the power brokers at PSU/SC and collusion with the University. I enjoyed Osborne and he was someone who was approachable. Like I said in a previous post, PSU has lost its charm. And, sadly much of that has been brought on by our addiction (mine too) to football. My addiction is to the sport. The University and town is far more addicted to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[NewEra 2014]

Like I said in a previous post, PSU has lost its charm. And, sadly much of that has been brought on by our addiction (mine too) to football.

I agree with you that PSU has lost its charm. But I believe that you are way off the mark in thinking that the loss in charm has anything to do with football.

Football is about the only thing left at PSU that holds any charm.

 

[Thomas1945]

I agree with you that PSU has lost its charm. But I believe that you are way off the mark in thinking that the loss in charm has anything to do with football.

Football is about the only thing left at PSU that holds any charm.

I agree with you. It’s just that football would be even much more charming if we beat OSU more often.

 

[DrJC]

Did not state that football per se has lost its charm. Although with the portal and rampant transfers, that might be slowly happening. PSU was able to expand endlessly in part because of the revenues brought in by football. The expansion of the downtown area is also in part a reflection of football weekend revenues. $500(+) per night for at best a so-so room and a host of class c restaurants.

 

[nits74]

What do you feel you missed out on, and why?

I feel just the opposite. Being in a fraternity, I feel that I experienced so much more at PSU than I probably would have had I stayed independent. Examples include marching in the Homecoming parade, performing on stage at Eisenhower (as bad a performance as it was) and participating in the Dance Marathon.

I understand your point of view and my own is, admittedly, nebulous. Everyone is different, but looking back there seemed to be an overemphasis on social conformity (something, even then, I never much cared for). I'm not going to say to which fraternity I belonged, but looking back it was a little too cookie cutter to me. What I regret most is not exploring more outside of that realm.

 

[junior1]

University spies all over downtown looking for girls - GIRLS! - entering fraternity houses, then they call the cops alleging the frat is violating the Borough's COVID ordinance. Meanwhile, non-Greek apartment and house parties abound in State College. Fraternities can't get guys to live in their houses because in apartments they can have fun and party with little supervision. In the fraternity house, it needs to now be like a monastery. After over a hundred years, severe risk that there will be no fraternities at Penn State within a couple years. Sad.

Well at least then there will no longer be any beer parties, drunk students at penn state. Everyone knows students living in houses and apartments in state college toe the line. I forgot, what fraternity house did that cheerleader fall out of onto beaver ave?

 

[PSU Soupy]

What year/years were you there? I was there from 93-95.

I was there with Mt Nittany in mid 80s, He and I overlapped for 3 of his 8 years.😎

 

[MtNittany]

I was there with Mt Nittany in mid 80s, He and I overlapped for 3 of his 8 years.😎

"You can't prove that Rusty"...

 

[Cletus11]

Well at least then there will no longer be any beer parties, drunk students at penn state. Everyone knows students living in houses and apartments in state college toe the line. I forgot, what fraternity house did that cheerleader fall out of onto beaver ave?

you do know that they are actively using apartment cameras to identify students who go into parties and then prosecute them? so literally big brother type stuff.

 

[PSU Soupy]

If you don't mind, a quick random question...is this the house that has a curved main staircase?

Yes. The one probably furthest from campus.

 

[PSU Soupy]

My grandfather built that staircase. He built a similar one in his own house about a half mile from that house.

He did a great job. Great architectural feature for the house interior.

 

[MtNittany]

He did a great job. Great architectural feature for the house interior.

Yeah - 4 stories worth too. I would probably stand there and look at it for a week before figuring out where to even begin.

 

[Thomas1945]

You guys are all rookies. I fondly remember the early Greek days. We all wore togas and gathered at the Parthenon to listen to Aristotle lecture. At dinner we all dressed in a formal himation. Yeah we partied, who wouldn’t with the World about to end due to the fear of Persian invasion.

We also performed our civic duty by assisting in the annual get out the land owner only voting drives. Discipline was very strict regarding grades, if you failed a test a hemlock cocktail was the punishment. Trips to the Oracle at Delphi were always a blast for Spring Break. Anyway I feel your pain regarding the present draconian PSU administration and it’s view of fraternity life. But on the other hand we had those damn shield banging Spartans always trying to shut us down, and those guys ruined many a pledge mixer.