OT, SIAP. Houston Astros accused of using technology to steal signs.

[LionJim]

https://www.axios.com/houston-astro...ate-f2776908-5da5-495d-a4c5-d891c3f6746a.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/astros-sign-stealing_n_5dcb9ab4e4b0a794d1f775f6

I noticed a few things while watching the recent World Series, and the Nationals pitchers mentioned that they were tipping their pitches early in the games. In the Series, games 1,2,6,7 were in Houston, and here's an interesting selection:

Game 1: Astros score 2 in first inning against Scherzer, lose 5-4.
Game 2: Astros score 2 in first inning against Strasburg, lose 12-3.
Game 6: Astros score 2 in first against Strasburg, lose 7-2.

Makes you wonder.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

https://www.axios.com/houston-astro...ate-f2776908-5da5-495d-a4c5-d891c3f6746a.html

I noticed a few things while watching the recent World Series, and the Nationals pitchers mentioned that they were tipping their pitches early in the games. In the Series, games 1,2,6,7 were in Houston, and here's an interesting selection:

Game 1: Astros score 2 in first inning against Scherzer, lose 5-4.
Game 2: Astros score 2 in first inning against Strasburg, lose 12-3.
Game 6: Astros score 2 in first against Strasburg, lose 7-2.

Makes you wonder.

Thanks Jim. But that info takes the “new” out of news.

 

[cjrugger]

https://www.axios.com/houston-astro...ate-f2776908-5da5-495d-a4c5-d891c3f6746a.html

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/astros-sign-stealing_n_5dcb9ab4e4b0a794d1f775f6

I noticed a few things while watching the recent World Series, and the Nationals pitchers mentioned that they were tipping their pitches early in the games. In the Series, games 1,2,6,7 were in Houston, and here's an interesting selection:

Game 1: Astros score 2 in first inning against Scherzer, lose 5-4.
Game 2: Astros score 2 in first inning against Strasburg, lose 12-3.
Game 6: Astros score 2 in first against Strasburg, lose 7-2.

Makes you wonder.

Yeah, I would guess these rumors are why Strasburg was so outspoken about tipping his pitches. Sounds like its very well known around the league

Rough month of PR for the Astros

 

[LionJim]

Yeah, I would guess these rumors are why Strasburg was so outspoken about tipping his pitches. Sounds like its very well known around the league

Rough month of PR for the Astros

Good thing the Nationals won. I'd be apoplectic at this news now, had they lost.

 

[Ceasar]

Just one point/thought. Tipping pitches is different than stealing signs. If a team can identify that a pitcher grips the ball differently, say on a curve ball, or comes to set differently, that's part of the game. But using video tecchnology to identify what pitch is going to be thrown, that's an entirely different scenario and is cheating. I put those two dynamics on completely different levels.

 

[cjrugger]

Just one point/thought. Tipping pitches is different than stealing signs. If a team can identify that a pitcher grips the ball differently, say on a curve ball, or comes to set differently, that's part of the game. But using video tecchnology to identify what pitch is going to be thrown, that's an entirely different scenario and is cheating. I put those two dynamics on completely different levels.

I agree with that. Just weird timing/circumstance

But as the article says, the Nats were on high alert coming in. And I'm just guessing, but vs another team Strasburg might not have been so outspoken about the tipping his pitches thing. He's usually a very quiet guy

 

[LionJim]

Just one point/thought. Tipping pitches is different than stealing signs.

I absolutely agree. I'm just wondering if Strasburg was being diplomatic when he talked about his "tipping" pitches.

Since the Nats won, it's just an academic exercise for me. If they'd lost, this would be really gnawing at me.

 

[cjrugger]

Here's a twitter breakdown of it:



Pretty nuts if it was coordinated at the team wide level it would have to be to pull this off

 

[Still in State College]

 

[Secret Asian Man]

A few years ago, an Astros employee was thrown out of a Cleveland Indians game. He was sitting next to the dugout using a ticket purchased from a broker. It got swept under the rug but the clear implication was that this employee was put there in order to get game information that was outside the rules.

 

[PSU Soupy]

Baseball with all of their computational metrics on shifting the infield still uses 1 for a fastball and 2 for a curve. Every fan watching on TV knows that a curveball is coming, not shocking that teams are figuring out ways to notify the batter.

 

[BrucePa]

Just one point/thought. Tipping pitches is different than stealing signs. If a team can identify that a pitcher grips the ball differently, say on a curve ball, or comes to set differently, that's part of the game. But using video tecchnology to identify what pitch is going to be thrown, that's an entirely different scenario and is cheating. I put those two dynamics on completely different levels.

Think of it like playing 21 at the card table in Las Vegas. If you can win with your eyes and your brain, it's illegal. Bring technology into it, and it's not legal.

 

[Still in State College]

Think of it like playing 21 at the card table in Las Vegas. If you can win with your eyes and your brain, it's illegal. Bring technology into it, and it's not legal.

Get ID'd as a card counter and see how legal the casino thinks using your eyes and brain is.

 

[TheGLOV]

Here's a twitter breakdown of it:

View embedded media

Pretty nuts if it was coordinated at the team wide level it would have to be to pull this off

Excellent post.

 

[Aardvark86]

I suspect some may not appreciate the extraordinary degree of paranoia that MLB teams have about this sort of thing (and the extent they will sometimes go to get an advantage). Two funny stories from my uncle's career on this front.

First, when he coached the White Sox for a bit, he told me a story of how they had set up a center field camera system that allowed them to relay pitches to batters on a timely basis. The first day out, they lost both games of a doubleheader, and abandoned the project shortly thereafter.

Second, when he was with the Dodgers, he/they were one of the first teams to put a person up high (usually in the press box) to get better depth perception to communicate with the dugout via radio to position outfielders consistent with scouting reports. When they went into visiting parks, they'd ask for him to be put in the press box as that was the most comfortable/private, and most teams would happily make an arrangement. When they went into Philly though, the Phillies were wildly suspicious about what he was up to. So, they put him way the hell up in the 700 level of the Vet, somewhere out in center field. Didn't really matter to him, because he could do his job perfectly fine from there too. But, being a mischievous sort, late in the game, he decided to have a little fun, and just for the hell of it, started making semaphore-like signs with his clipboards. Completely coincidentally, the next Dodgers batter hit a home run. He had a chuckle and went back to the hotel after the game. The next night when he showed up, they put him in the press box. They'd been watching him the whole time and had concluded that he was stealing signs.

Other fun examples - he took ventriloquism lessons to try to learn to throw his voice to disrupt things, and he took all of the opposing managers' lineup cards to a handwriting expert for analysis to try to learn their psychological tendencies.

 

[Aardvark86]

Baseball with all of their computational metrics on shifting the infield still uses 1 for a fastball and 2 for a curve. Every fan watching on TV knows that a curveball is coming, not shocking that teams are figuring out ways to notify the batter.

That's because the numbers geniuses in the front office aren't on the field playing the game.

 

[fastlax16]

The Astros GMs statement was great. Sounded like something Gene Smith would put out.

“We haven’t done everything properly, but I do feel confident that in general, most of the time, we did things right and we try and follow the rules. We try to be good citizens and we try to compete as hard as we can.”

 

[PennStateNate]

What do you expect from the most scummy organization on earth. They have racist, woman beater on their roster.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Get ID'd as a card counter and see how legal the casino thinks using your eyes and brain is.

Exactly. Sucks because you are just using your own skills but good luck not getting escorted out by burly dudes. Totally unfair but casinos aren’t set up for you to make money

 

[PearlSUJam]

Why can't the NFL have balls like this?

 

[whart]

Astros General Manager and Manager both suspended without pay for the upcoming season! Both implicated in a cheating scandal from last season.....stealing signs etc. Per MLB

 

[sunshinedynomite]

Pitt Panther football team has claimed this World Series and changed it to another college football national championship.

 

[BobPSU92]

Dumb sons of bitches.

 

[Mister Magoo]

I won't be surprised if the Red Sox fire Cora. He's getting at least a year

 

[Ceasar]

I won't be surprised if the Red Sox fire Cora. He's getting at least a year

Wow, you think so? I know you are plugged into Boston sports. I like Cora, never cared for Hinch. But anyone who was involved in this deserves at least a year. Surprised to see Beltran may skate by.

 

[rem524]

Wow, you think so? I know you are plugged into Boston sports. I like Cora, never cared for Hinch. But anyone who was involved in this deserves at least a year. Surprised to see Beltran may skate by.

I'm watching MLB Network now. They are saying that Beltran would be actively protected by the players union if they tried to discipline him for his actions when he was an active player. As they said, it shouldn't necessarily mean that they don't try. As it stands, no players are being disciplined at this time.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Word is Cora is mentioned a dozen times in the Astros probe. Seems like he took his talents to Boston. Toss him if its true. And I am a huge Red Sox fan.

 

[royboy]

Additional news coverage on the MLB response that @PearlSUJam notes above:


The Astros will also pay a $5 million penalty and forfeit their first and second-round picks in 2020 and 2021. Investigators
interviewed 68 witnesses, including current and former Astros players, and reviewed tens of thousands of emails, text messages and videos.

"I find that the conduct of the Astros, and its senior baseball operations executives, merits significant discipline," Commissioner Rob Manfred said in the league's nine-page ruling.
"The conduct described herein has caused fans, players, executives at other MLB clubs, and members of the media to raise questions about the integrity of games in which the Astros participated. And while it is impossible to determine whether the conduct actually impacted the results on the field, the perception of some that it did causes significant harm to the game," Manfred said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/astros...tronic-sign-stealing-scheme-today-2020-01-13/

 

[lionville]

The punishment doesn’t go far enough. I think the league should forfeit their championship from ‘17.

 

[Pocono Lion]

The Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

 

[LionJim]

 

[gogolion]

The Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

I figured that would happen, and Cora will be gone too. What other option is there? Bring in an interim manager, then bring Hinch back? What if the interim guy does well? You tell him, um, thanks for the nice job, but Hinch gets his job back. I don't think that would fly.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I figured that would happen, and Cora will be gone too. What other option is there? Bring in an interim manager, then bring Hinch back? What if the interim guy does well? You tell him, um, thanks for the nice job, but Hinch gets his job back. I don't think that would fly.

Maybe Bill O’Brien can fill in for a while.....

 

[Aardvark86]

Why can't the NFL have balls like this?

View embedded media

View embedded media

Having balls would also involve the suspension of players. But since MLB is preparing for some interesting CBA discussions in the next few years, which might rock the labor boat. So MLB is little different from the NFL. Remember, the NFL actually made an owner divest.

 

[AldenT]

Having balls would also involve the suspension of players. But since MLB is preparing for some interesting CBA discussions in the next few years, which might rock the labor boat. So MLB is little different from the NFL. Remember, the NFL actually made an owner divest.

The NFL burned the New England cheating tapes, buried the scandal, and gave a big middle finger to the fans. They have the worst pension system, give zero f**ks about CTE, and churn players like they are chattel. The NFL is the most “for the owners” league this side of professional camel racing, and they pay Roger Goodell $50mm per year to get booed at the draft so he keeps it that way.

 

[Aardvark86]

The NFL burned the New England cheating tapes, buried the scandal, and gave a big middle finger to the fans. They have the worst pension system, give zero f**ks about CTE, and churn players like they are chattel. The NFL is the most “for the owners” league this side of professional camel racing, and they pay Roger Goodell $50mm per year to get booed at the draft so he keeps it that way.

And he does a damn good job of it.

 

[Secret Asian Man]

Houston Astros fire Skipper and GM after MLB suspended them for a year for cheating. Good for them (not sure they didn't know, though). Tough week for pro sports in Houston.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing

 

[LongJakk]

Houston Astros fire Skipper and GM

And if you think the president and owner didnt know then you are very gullible.

 

[manatree]

Houston Astros fire Skipper and GM

Does anyone wonder if the fine print of their contracts allow for them to be paid if fired as opposed to being suspended without pay for a year?

 

[MtNittany]

Does anyone wonder if the fine print of their contracts allow for them to be paid if fired as opposed to being suspended without pay for a year?

They were getting paid either way. Sox up next. Cora will be fired and paid.