"The president and AD were his puppets."
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...tech-hokies-big-ten-media-days-mailbag-072915
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...tech-hokies-big-ten-media-days-mailbag-072915
"Paterno, as has been well-documented, called all the shots in Happy Valley." -Stewart Mandel
- Thread starter Zenophile
- Start date
That's stupid. Just because he writes something doesn't mean it's true. If it's been so "well documented" maybe he can provide the mountain of evidence which proves it.
Sure comes off self-assured. I actually laughed at the thought of him saying it out loud with such ease.
How many times in the past 3.5 year have people had to have "discussions" with young Stewart and he still doesn't care to get it? He knows what he is doing by making statements he can't back up - he is just looking to generate a buzz for himself. I'm sure he's aware of how PSU fans can be stirred to react as he saw what happened with Olbermann. At some point it's fruitless and not worth it - you're better off hoping he gets hit by train and ridding the world of his presence altogether.
Hard to argue this point. I may have been giving him the benefit of the doubt (& perhaps excessively so).
I don't necessarily disagree. Can someone here share evidence where the AD and/or President stood up to JoePa and/or over ruled what Paterno wanted to do?
It's not like he wrote "it's well documented Paterno covered up for a pedophile" for example. That would be something to be outraged about. But, really, Paterno had too much influence on campus.
It's not like he wrote "it's well documented Paterno covered up for a pedophile" for example. That would be something to be outraged about. But, really, Paterno had too much influence on campus.
And you, of course, have evidence of this and a means to quantify influence, or no?
It's on the Internet and the media reported it. That makes it so.
I dislike Vicky as much as everyone else here. And although I disagree with how she handled her disagreements, she had a point: discipline shouldn't favor one student over another.
What evidence would you offer in support of your hypothesis?
I agree 100%. That's why I don't take exception to what was said regarding Paterno.
Why is it that NO ONE can say anything negative? So what. Paterno had a HUGE amount of influence (that equated with certain power). So what. Tell me something we don't already know. But, why be outraged about it?
His comment about the AD and President being his "puppet" was a poor choice of word. But, I get what he was saying.
Yes Paterno carried a lot of power. Spanier was NOT Paterno's puppet and his influence was limited. The evidence being Spanier could not get rid of Paterno and Paterno could not get rid of Spanier.
First, Mandels quote about "all the shots" is in reference to FOOTBALL. Your original title of your post implies that the article is saying all the shots UNIVERSITY wide. Which I didn't take Mandela comments as such.
That being said, I don't believe there werect any times Paterno was OVER RULED: from scheduling, to discipline, to staff hiring, to uniforms, etc.
Again, I'm not saying Paterno did a bad thing with that POWER. But, I agree he HAD that power. He did, "call the shots." And, his face-offs with Vicky are an example. Again, I think the disagreements could have been handled better. But, who won those battles?
-------
A lot of Joe's power came from his dedication to excellence for all students, his stressing of academics, his donations to libraries and other campus institutions, his helping to raise a billion dollars for the school. He was way more than a coach, way more than other D5 guy that I can think of.
When a guy runs what is nationally known as The Grand Experiment, is known for The Paterno Way, has forced reforms on the NCAA, he gains some more power.
I don't know that he abused his powers other than staying longer then many thought he should.
Ah yes, the baseball field. This example, of course, has been referred to about 7,652,133 times on BWI over the last four years.
How about other examples? How about other examples that specifically relates to the domain where JoePa was King (football)?
Mandel is saying (almost in so many words) is that Jay would have been the next HC if Joe said so. The mere fact that the board ceremoniously shitcanned Paterno is prima facie evidence that Mandel does not know what the hell he is talking about. In the absence of the scandal, Paterno had just as many enemies on the board, i.e. almost everybody. Mandel is an ignorant hack.
Mr 60 Minutes. Tell me something I don't know.
Here's a NEWSFLASH for you. He was HUMAN with HUMANITIES frailties, too. And when he took a crap, it stank, too.
Why take issue with what Mandel said, then? I'm just saying I don't disagree with what he said. I think, like any HUMANITIES surrounded with YES men, he lacked checks and balances. Hence, his failure to ever fire his OL coaches and his HIRING of Jay. I know he meant sincerity. But, those choices were poor, IMO.
And, how often do you think those two issues were brought to his attention? I'm certain he simply shrugged them off. Why? Because of who he was AND his influence/power.
No way in hell Franklin gets the same shake as Paterno. Franklin went BACK to no names. Imagine if he decided to add stripes or some sh!t to the uniforms.
100s, no 1,000s of incidents where JoePa wanted X, and was told that the AD or the President was going with Y. Sometimes he accepted the instructions, and sometimes he tried to get his way. Even in the 2nd situation, he rarely "won." I do know about a lot of the incidents, but have not been given permission to discuss them (except for things like the baseball stadium, which are public knowledge). I don't think most of this info will come out until the C/S/S situation gets resolved, as C & S have direct knowledge of the incidents but are not discussing anything in public.
That's a pretty dumb statement, IMHO. Since you asked the earlier question, I can pretty much guarantee that you don't have the knowledge to be able to make that statement based on facts. JoePa had more power than an adjunct professor, but he had nowhere near as much power as some seem to think and/or claim.
You really should do more research on what Vicky claimed, and what are the actual facts.
You have it exactly backwards. What Vicky wanted was the ability to discipline athletes OUTSIDE the procedures set for all other students.
Well, for one The Big Ten Network. Joe didn't want it, Spanier did. Joe later admitted it was the right move.
There is documentary evidence that Paterno did not want Sandusky bringing minors into Lasch building. Someone clearly overruled him. Interestingly, Freeh didn't tell us who.
Should an Engineering graduate MAJOR PROFESS0R be responsible for disciplining the student? Should we have varying degrees of discipline?
From what I recall, that was Vicky's point. Now, she PILED ON during the scandal and she handled her disagreements with Paterno poorly. But, I think there should be UNIVERSAL discipline regardless. And, from what I recall, her beef was that there wasnt.
Where are the quotes where JoePa was against the Big Ten Network? I am not saying that is not true, but this is certainly the first time I've heard of that.
Besides --- the Big Ten Network influenced all Penn State sports, not solely football. If JoePa thought HE should be the one to call the shots on PSU's involvement with the Big Ten Network, he was horribly incorrect. Also incorrect is anyone who thinks JoePa should have made that decision (instead of Spanier).
