Wrestling Penn State Wrestling Notebook: Addressing the Offseason Rumor Mill
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
Barr's certification was entered today (or yesterday). Weighed in between 184.1 and 197. Not much info to be gleaned from that one except he will either be too light to contend or too heavy to make it back to 184 next year.
Doing what Carter says and not pushing back.
I think 197. Unless there is an oddball concentration of talent for some reason, every year I'm going to think 197 is easier than 184. I've been watching big guys go at it too long to think otherwise.
That's not an answer. I'll ask again. Which is better for the team score in March? Star/Barr or Barr/Star?
Starr 184, Barr 197 IMO.
If he goes 197 and somebody says gun to your head, you have to take someone in the country to win that weight in March right now, I'm picking Barr. I'm not doing that at 184.
Carter is winning either weight without issue.
That's what I was asking. So you believe Barr has better opportunity at 197 because 184 has more competition generally? I agree actually. 184 tends to be more competitive(depth) than 197 more often than not.
Yep. Adding to that: 184 returns last year's top 4 placers, and 9 of the top 12. 197 has no returning finalists except Ford Focus if he stays out of jail that long.
Yup. I think if you took the top 16 184s and the top 16 197s every year and told them in 6 months we're going to have a tournament at 197 to determine the NC and AAs this year, most years at least 67 - 75% of the AAs would be the 184s.
Now, that's not to say some years could be oddballs. But year-in, year-out, that's what I think would bear out over the long haul. JMO.
The test cases this year will be Barr and Salazar (184-6 last year).
I would not be surprised at all if both finish higher than 6th this year at 197.
197 sometimes has better finalists (like last year) but rarely a better podium. Probably the last time 197 had a better podium was 2016 (the Cox-McIntosh final). That was not a great 184 -- Pete Renda won 3rd by TF.
Ben recently said on this Flo video that he was "pretty certain" Mirasola will Redshirt this year, so that is one data point to consider.
Barr just went 86kg. If he had weighed 206 at cert, it would have been mostly extra water but everybody would be feeling fine.
Wow it's that 100% for 197? On an island here, Barr for 184
Positives:
+ Carter and Barr are close to the same weight so either 'could' go either way.
+ By all accounts Barr is the man at 184 in 2026 and Marisola at 197 so why F#$@ with that?
+ We don't need Barr's points at all unless breaking last year's record is the ultimate objective. Cael is as competitive as anyone anywhere but I doubt he cares about another points record
+ Where will Barr be at his personal best? Where his natural weight dictates. He will be undersized against guys who walk around over 215. So to will Carter, but Carter's style and experience will neutralize much of that.
+ yes, yes, don't be denial. Barr on full feed for the full season might change his body in a way that the return back down to 184 (for 3 years), will be difficult to the point it might negatively affect his performance. Why risk it if Carter will almost assuredly win at either weight?
Negatives:
- the tea leaves seem to indicate Carter wants 184. All else aside a 4xer gets his way. Deservedly so.
- 197 is weaker hence Carter is an overwhelming favorite to win at either weight, but Barr's best chance may well rest at 197
- who can put on and carry the extra weight easier? Little doubt this is Barr with the longer leaner frame. I think Carter is maxed out a little too lite.
- Maybe Carter's knee still isn't 100%. If so it makes a lot of sense to keep him at 184, avoiding bigger stronger men putting more stress on that leg.
- I will take the bait, team points should be higher with Barr up at 197 too.
On balance I really think this one is coming down to taking the risk that the drop back down to 184 won't be a problem for Barr (clearly I believe this is not a given) vs Carter being "the" man, gets his choice and 184 is the better choice for him.
It's pretty clear the decision has been made and both will kick ass this year, with a chance at 2 national champs?
I give it a 25% chance that Barr and Marisola wrestleoff for 197 next year. Not optimal, but the team is looking like NChampionships every year continue unabated unless DT lands Bo, Blaze, Jax, and a whole host of others...
I'd pay an awful lot of money to get you in front of Cael at a presser with a microphone in hand and a camera rolling.
I betcha Pyles would chip in. Don't we have a guy on here now that can make this happen?
Last edited:
He recently was wrestling 189 at Worlds. He was cutting to get there.Barr's certification was entered today (or yesterday). Weighed in between 184.1 and 197. Not much info to be gleaned from that one except he will either be too light to contend or too heavy to make it back to 184 next year.
Did Cochran quit the team? I imagine he must have. That would explain why no one is asking if Cochran will wrestle Barr for the 197 spot.
. I can see a scenario where Barr spots Carter in a decent number of matches while wrestling in tournaments while Cochran gets first shot at 197.
Zack Ryder could get 5 matches at 184 without burning his shirt.Did Cochran quit the team? I imagine he must have. That would explain why no one is asking if Cochran will wrestle Barr for the 197 spot.
He's the Plan B at 197 and 285 right now.Did Cochran quit the team? I imagine he must have. That would explain why no one is asking if Cochran will wrestle Barr for the 197 spot.
So he won't even get to wrestle Barr for the spot? Shall we just dismiss the possibility that he could have improved over the summer? He did beat an All-American Heavyweight last year.
Of course Cochran will get to wrestle for the spot.
His career results at 197 (detailed below) indicate someone who would probably qualify, but is not a good bet for the podium. He has faced 2 AAs and lost decisively both times. His record vs all other NQs is mixed -- the highest seed among them was 20th. His highest-seeded victim was 24th.
The win over Slavikouski says more about how bad HWT is after the first few guys, than it does about Cochran's starting potential at 197.
Details -- career results vs 197 NQs (place before name, seed after result):
2024:
4 Cardenas L 13-6
Kinsey (UVa) W 17-3 -- 31 seed
8 Beard L 20-6
2023:
Crawford (F&M) - F 2:35. Crawford DNQ in 2023, was the 32 seed in 2024.
Koser (Navy) - L 12-0 -- 28 seed
Mitchell (Buffalo) - L 5-2. Mitchell DNQ in 2023, was the 30 seed in 2024.
Hopkins (Campbell) - W 10-5 -- 24 seed
2022:
Koser (Navy) - LBF 0:55 -- 20 seed
Howard (VT) - L 15-6. Howard DNQ in 2022. In 2021 he was the 27 seed and finished with a losing record.
Ferreira (NC State) - L 11-9. Ferreira did not start at NC State. In 2023 he transferred to Hofstra and was the 28 seed at 184.
Hale (Penn) - W 4-0. Hale did not start in 2022, started but DNQ in 2023, and was the 26 seed in 2024.
No, it was a completely obvious stat and irrelevant to the post I was referring to that was talking about losses through their sophomore seasons.
I'm in general agreement with this. Of course, Cochran will get a chance to compete for the starting spot, but my opinion is that the other guys will beat him to win it. But I (and everyone else) could be wrong and he could take the spot, at least as long as it's not C-Star he's up against. Cochran is a very good wrestler in his own right, so who knows, but I just don't see it happening.
Thank you for the detailed info as always. If you read both of my posts, I thought it was pretty obvious I was joking/teasing those who never mentioned Cochran as a possibility at 197. I asked if he quit the team knowing full well he hadn't because he wasn't even mentioned as a possibility at 197. The response was that he was "Plan B"......indicating that it was already decided he would be a backup. Hence my second response. I realize he might not be the favorite, but he deserves to be mentioned. I need to start using more Emojis.
Well, we can all appreciate how difficult your public admission was to make.
Well, we can all appreciate how difficult your public admission was to make.
Just to be clear:
"losses through their sophomore seasons." is a completely useless statistic, but if had any value, losses through junior and senior seasons would be more useful.
Has Haines had a junior or senior season? Didn't think so. So no, it wouldn't be anymore useful.
Any other misplaced condescension you want to throw out there or are you good taking the L?
Like O'Toole just did?
Hey, I walk there from my office at 35 West Wacker.
Have you ever heard of any award for best record or fewest losses after their sophomore season?
