Penn State Wrestling's Rise To Prominence Under Cael Sanderson

[ss7]

I think they got the big takeaway right, which is NLWC is set up for senior level dominance by being 8x better funded than their closest competitors. What more do you think they missed? Where the donor got his money? I'm sure you all would have loved that...

Because, and I think this is shown by the discussions that have taken place since, the implication is that the 8x asset advantage then translates to 8x spending advantage, making it impossible for any other club to spend anything near what NLWC does. And that part simply isn't true.

You can pull expenses from those very same forms. And while NLWC has the highest expenses, it's not orders of magnitude different than others. For example, in the last 3 years available (2017-2019) the NLWC has outspent HWC by about 20% - approximately $2.8M to $2.3M.

What do those numbers really mean? I'm not trying to say I know for sure. I'm trying to say that nobody really knows for sure. Which is what makes simply throwing out/highlighting one set of numbers without any context or additional information irresponsible or at least not what I would define as "great" journalism.

 

[js8793]

Because, and I think this is shown by the discussions that have taken place since, the implication is that the 8x asset advantage then translates to 8x spending advantage, making it impossible for any other club to spend anything near what NLWC does. And that part simply isn't true.

You can pull expenses from those very same forms. And while NLWC has the highest expenses, it's not orders of magnitude different than others. For example, in the last 3 years available (2017-2019) the NLWC has outspent HWC by about 20% - approximately $2.8M to $2.3M.

What do those numbers really mean? I'm not trying to say I know for sure. I'm trying to say that nobody really knows for sure. Which is what makes simply throwing out/highlighting one set of numbers without any context or additional information irresponsible or at least not what I would define as "great" journalism.

maybe I should "great" in terms of typical wrestling journalism which is mostly non-existent, at least on that kind of thing. good points.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Is this actually true though?

This is the nature of the internet. It is near universal. The reason we don't see it as much here, is you guys are on top. But there was some of that junk on here the two years you weren't.

For example, Iowa landed Lee by getting Larry a high level exec job at Coe College. Nevermind that that job was at another institution and basically a demotion, but clearly that's the only reason Spencer would go there. That line was all over the place over here. And guess who partook...

"Some "enterprising" school in Iowa should hire Bill and entice the entire McCort crew to come out that way. They never seem to have hs recruiting issues out that way. Or do they? Hell, theres also a young guns there . I’m sure Tom would let them workout with the HWC as well. Bill could even open up his compound if he wanted. It will almost be like they never even left Pennsylvania. Well… except the kids will be allowed to wrestle and there will be corn everywhere. Whoever fixed Larry Lee up with a job should look into this."

-you, 11/5/2021

I say this because I do actually like you. You're tilting at windmills my friend. None of what you do on HR matters or has any effect and it seems to genuinely upset you. Stop going over there and focus on enjoying your wonderful team and talking actual wrestling here.

Guess the sarcasm with that line escaped you. Lol. I think if you scanned my history you’ll find 83 percent of my posts contain that same sarcasm.

 

[js8793]

Guess the sarcasm with that line escaped you. Lol. I think if you scanned my history you’ll find 83 percent of my posts contain that same sarcasm.

you don't think a lot of the stuff on HR has sarcasm?

Honest question: do you think what you do on HR helps PSU in any way? And if so, how much?

 

[johnstownsteel]

you don't think a lot of the stuff on HR has sarcasm?

Honest question: do you think what you do on HR helps PSU in any way? And if so, how much?

Oh… now I got it!!! See, that’s what I’ve been missing all these years. When the Iowa fans there talk about Cael cheating, parents taking payoffs to send their kids there and PSU wrestlers using steroids…. It’s all sarcasm. See, you guys should have told me that years ago and we could have avoided all the tension and disdain for each other. I feel so silly.

 

[IndyLion1]

Who was part of Ohio RTC at that time other than Tervel Dlagnev? They only had $43k so their athletes didn't get paid much... or the money came from other sources.

According to TeamUSA website Terval wrestled for Ohio RTC in 2015 and was part of our World Cup team. So he and Steiber split the $43k and the coaches coached for free?? Is it possible other clubs paid there athletes other ways?

 

[js8793]

Oh… now I got it!!! See, that’s what I’ve been missing all these years. When the Iowa fans there talk about Cael cheating, parents taking payoffs to send their kids there and PSU wrestlers using steroids…. It’s all sarcasm. See, you guys should have told me that years ago and we could have avoided all the tension and disdain for each other. Fresh I feel so silly.

didn't answer the question. i suspect because you know the answer.

it's okay to admit you like trolling and that's why you're there. just don't be surprised when you get banned.

 

[johnstownsteel]

you don't think a lot of the stuff on HR has sarcasm?

Honest question: do you think what you do on HR helps PSU in any way? And if so, how much?

Huh? You think people on message boards affect wrestling programs? I know some think so but I didn’t think you were one of them. I do however think fans that read that board get the other side of the argument when I push back when they sling their garbage to try to make PSU look bad. That’s all I’m trying to accomplish there.

 

[js8793]

Huh? You think people on message boards affect wrestling programs? I know some think so but I didn’t think you were one of them. I do however think fans that read that board get the other side of the argument when I push back when they sling their garbage to try to make PSU look bad. That’s all I’m trying to accomplish there.

No I don't. And 0% of the fans you're combatting get the other side of the argument. The ones who do are the ones who do from the start because they're normal.

Being hated is the price of success.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Props to the fan in ep. 2 that told Brands at the team hotel in that, "It's over! For next ten years, it's over for you!" Nostradamus lmao

That was funny. Something just as prophetic, Q in an interview saying Cael plans to take HS wrestlers, turn them into national champions, then make them world and Olympic champions. JS probably remembers back then when a few of us PSU were telling them once he builds his college team into a powerhouse, he would next build the NLWC into the premier club in the nation and easily overtake the HWC. We were laughed off their board yet that’s exactly what is happening. Guess Cael had a plan.

 

[McScoreley]

Did Flo actually do that or was that HR/the wider wrestling public?

Flo isn't stupid, they knew it would lead to the wider public throwing accusations. And that's exactly what it did and it isn't just HR. It started with them (and yes they were in their rights to do so and Cael is in his rights to shut his program down to them for the most part)

It leads to people discrediting what PSU has done to just "having more money" or "cheating", for a guy who has built his program from the ground up and hard work like Cael, I wouldn't expect him to appreciate the article. Finally, yes, nobody is denying PSU has an advantage due to the RTC money. Guess what? That is part of the work also. People complain about what PSU has, go fundraise. Iowa was able to fundraise 20M + for their facilities, they just chose to allocate resources to that instead of the RTC.

PSU doesn't have the best facilities anymore. Ohio State surpassed us, Iowa obviously will build the best ones, Oklahoma State has plans to, hell even Illinois is building 15 million stand alone ones. Our fans/coaches will go a different direction than accusing those programs of having an unfair advantage.

 

[El-Jefe]

Would be nice to see an examination of the nature of Slumlord Millionaire’s generous gift

But I digress

Also a list of Panera's locations whose sales contributed to the Tan & Deadlift Center.

Though Panera's is a lot more benign ...

 

[McScoreley]

Is this actually true though?

This is the nature of the internet. It is near universal. The reason we don't see it as much here, is you guys are on top. But there was some of that junk on here the two years you weren't.

For example, Iowa landed Lee by getting Larry a high level exec job at Coe College. Nevermind that that job was at another institution and basically a demotion, but clearly that's the only reason Spencer would go there. That line was all over the place over here. And guess who partook...

"Some "enterprising" school in Iowa should hire Bill and entice the entire McCort crew to come out that way. They never seem to have hs recruiting issues out that way. Or do they? Hell, theres also a young guns there . I’m sure Tom would let them workout with the HWC as well. Bill could even open up his compound if he wanted. It will almost be like they never even left Pennsylvania. Well… except the kids will be allowed to wrestle and there will be corn everywhere. Whoever fixed Larry Lee up with a job should look into this."

-you, 11/5/2021

I say this because I do actually like you. You're tilting at windmills my friend. None of what you do on HR matters or has any effect and it seems to genuinely upset you. Stop going over there and focus on enjoying your wonderful team and talking actual wrestling here.

Yes the Larry Lee sold Spencer to Iowa so he could change jobs from Carnegie Mellon to Coe College accusations (and it's just not jts) is typical message board BS that shouldn't happen.

 

[El-Jefe]

Who was part of Ohio RTC at that time other than Tervel Dlagnev? They only had $43k so their athletes didn't get paid much... or the money came from other sources.

Heflin?

 

[johnstownsteel]

Yes the Larry Lee sold Spencer to Iowa so he could change jobs from Carnegie Mellon to Coe College accusations (and it's just not jts) is typical message board BS that shouldn't happen.

Go through my posts. You’ll find I never made any accusations towards Larry for taking a job in Iowa. Read the post that JS posted. The entire post is sarcasm that should really not be easy to miss. Btw, you don’t even have it right. People were saying Iowa got Larry a job at Coe so Spencer would go there. Not that Larry would send Spencer to Iowa if they got him the job. Theres a difference in that Iowa was the seller. Either way it was a dumb argument to make.

 

[js8793]

Heflin?

He was at Oklahoma i believe

 

[nitlion6]

Yes the Larry Lee sold Spencer to Iowa so he could change jobs from Carnegie Mellon to Coe College accusations (and it's just not jts) is typical message board BS that shouldn't happen.

Has Lar reached out to you?
Everybody knows Spencer went to Iowa because Coe out bid Juniata College for Larry's services.

 

[McScoreley]

He was at Oklahoma i believe

Princeton, he actually pinned Bo Nickal in 2017 lol (wasn't called but he pinned him)

 

[ss7]

Heflin?

For this kind of discussion, are the "net assets" the right thing to look at? I'm not particularly accounting-literate (as my comments probably illustrate).

Shouldn't we be looking at yearly expenditures?

 

[IndyLion1]

He was at Oklahoma i believe

From Princton wrestling website: Heflin, the 2014 Big Ten champion at 197 pounds, had earned All-America honors as both a sophomore and junior. He defeated Minnesota’s Scott Schiller to reach his first NCAA championship match, which he lost 2-1 in heartbreaking fashion; the match referee ruled his takedown occurred just after time expired.

Heflin moved into coaching immediately after his undergraduate career ended. Besides his work with the Ohio RTC, he worked as a strength coach with both the Ohio State football and wrestling teams; the former would go on to win the football championship this past January.

 

[El-Jefe]

For this kind of discussion, are the "net assets" the right thing to look at? I'm not particularly accounting-literate (as my comments probably illustrate).

Shouldn't we be looking at yearly expenditures?

Both

At one time J Rob had around 6 of his recent graduates listed as "administrative assistants." Ugliest secretary pool ever. Also a genius way to shift funding sources.

 

[82bordeaux]

For example, in the last 3 years available (2017-2019) the NLWC has outspent HWC by about 20% - approximately $2.8M to $2.3M.

What do those numbers really mean?

That Iowa can't spend money wisely.

 

[Chris Watts]

Because, and I think this is shown by the discussions that have taken place since, the implication is that the 8x asset advantage then translates to 8x spending advantage, making it impossible for any other club to spend anything near what NLWC does. And that part simply isn't true.

You can pull expenses from those very same forms. And while NLWC has the highest expenses, it's not orders of magnitude different than others. For example, in the last 3 years available (2017-2019) the NLWC has outspent HWC by about 20% - approximately $2.8M to $2.3M.

What do those numbers really mean? I'm not trying to say I know for sure. I'm trying to say that nobody really knows for sure. Which is what makes simply throwing out/highlighting one set of numbers without any context or additional information irresponsible or at least not what I would define as "great" journalism.

That Iowa can't spend money wisely.

The majority of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club's expenses have been for something called "Future World C" (page 10, line 24). In the years referenced (2017-2019), "Future World C" has cost them nearly $1.8M. Hopefully the return on that investment occurs soon.

 

[El-Jefe]

For example, in the last 3 years available (2017-2019) the NLWC has outspent HWC by about 20% - approximately $2.8M to $2.3M.

What do those numbers really mean?

Rents are about to increase by 20%.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Honest question: do you think what you do on HR helps PSU in any way? And if so, how much?

I know I need to move on and I will but a Troll should work all the angles. Well…a good one should anyways. Ok, I think we both agree that its delusional to think anything we say on message boards could help or even hurt programs. Just curious what you’d think if an NCAA Division 1 head coach thought that people were actually being paid to spread negative things to hurt their program …on forums or any other social media sites for that matter. Would you say he is delusional?

 

[johnstownsteel]

The majority of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club's expenses have been for something called "Future World C" (page 10, line 24). In the years referenced (2017-2019), "Future World C" has cost them nearly $1.8M. Hopefully the return on that investment occurs soon.

We call ours “World Domination.” They call theirs “World Consolation”.

 

[jmadden1998]

I know I need to move on and I will but a Troll should work all the angles. Well…a good one should anyways. Ok, I think we both agree that its delusional to think anything we say on message boards could help or even hurt programs. Just curious what you’d think if an NCAA Division 1 head coach thought that people were actually being paid to spread negative things about their program …on forums or any other social media sites for that matter. Would you say he is delusional?

I

If I told you 10 years ago Donald Trump would be President of the USA would you have thought I was delusional?

 

[johnstownsteel]

If I told you 10 years ago Donald Trump would be President of the USA would you have thought I was delusional?

Lol. I forget who the celebrity was but back in the 90s in an interview they said they could see a business man being President one day. Then said someone like Donald Trump. Let me try to remember who it was and post a video of it.

 

[El-Jefe]

If I told you 10 years ago Donald Trump would be President of the USA would you have thought I was delusional?

Yes. Anybody who picks a presidential winner 5+ years out is delusional.

 

[jmadden1998]

Yes. Anybody who picks a presidential winner 5+ years out is delusional.

I remember when Ann Coulter was laughed at by the entire panel on MSNBC when they asked her who was the front runner for the Republican nominee and she said Trump. This was before the primaries even started and they thought she was delusional. Point being sometimes those who are accused of being delusional are right.

 

[El-Jefe]

I remember when Ann Coulter was laughed at by the entire panel on MSNBC when they asked her who was the front runner for the Republican nominee and she said Trump. This was before the primaries even started and they thought she was delusional. Point being sometimes those who are accused of being delusional are right.

Broken Clock Theory in action.

So far ahead, that's exactly the kind of thing that DC pundits say so they can claim they were right, and nobody will care if they were eventually wrong.

 

[nitlion6]

Both

At one time J Rob had around 6 of his recent graduates listed as "administrative assistants." Ugliest secretary pool ever. Also a genius way to shift funding sources.

JRobb was a genius. It was JRobb who led the effort to maximize Iowa summer camp revenue, and to pay the wrestlers a fair amount of money and stay within the rules. JRobb also maximized his annual income from those camps. If Iowa hadn't decided to assume control of those camps (ie revenue) JRobb may have never taken the Minnesota job.

 

[johnstownsteel]

I remember when Ann Coulter was laughed at by the entire panel on MSNBC when they asked her who was the front runner for the Republican nominee and she said Trump. This was before the primaries even started and they thought she was delusional. Point being sometimes those who are accused of being delusional are right.

Are you saying Cael really does need to be cutting me checks for Trolling Iowa?

 

[bourbon n blues]

I remember when Ann Coulter was laughed at by the entire panel on MSNBC when they asked her who was the front runner for the Republican nominee and she said Trump. This was before the primaries even started and they thought she was delusional. Point being sometimes those who are accused of being delusional are right.

I see your point, IMO I think fans get too cranked up over this rivalry stuff but I'll admit I find these trolling battles funny.

 

[nitlion6]

The majority of the Hawkeye Wrestling Club's expenses have been for something called "Future World C" (page 10, line 24). In the years referenced (2017-2019), "Future World C" has cost them nearly $1.8M. Hopefully the return on that investment occurs soon.

C = Coe College LL reimbursement.

 

[District four]

No I don't. And 0% of the fans you're combatting get the other side of the argument. The ones who do are the ones who do from the start because they're normal.

Being hated is the price of success.

Maybe they should shut up long enough to get the other side of the argument

 

[PASLP2]

I gathered from this thread coe college is the Carnegie Mellon of Iowa.

 

[McScoreley]

No I don't. And 0% of the fans you're combatting get the other side of the argument. The ones who do are the ones who do from the start because they're normal.

Being hated is the price of success.

Your first sentence is internet arguing (or just arguing in general about stuff like politics) in a nutshell. You aren't very likely changing someone's mind, no need to waste energy.

 

[AgSurfer]

Your first sentence is internet arguing (or just arguing in general about stuff like politics) in a nutshell. You aren't very likely changing someone's mind, no need to waste energy.

And besides, it’s pretty common knowledge that Penn State has a double top secret slush fund that was specifically established to guarantee total domination over the Hawks as long as Cael is head coach. 😈