Hold these thoughts. Rules aren't changing this year unless the Wrestling Committee makes an exception. Rules and Interpretations are done in 2-year cycles, and won't be revisited until next year.
Proposed Changes after watching the tournament
- Thread starter Agoodnap
- Start date
Stuff like this cracks me up to no end. Cox added 23 lb in less than 18 hrs, then competed and won titles? Come on.
I'd love to see what happens when someone attempts to drink that much fluid in that little time. Too bad Jackass was canceled.
Tony Nelson, is that you?
I'd rather see riding time eliminated altogether. It's an incentive for top stalling.
If it's to be kept, then change so top can only get it in max 30 sec increments, and only if there are back points involved. But that's a complication to the rules.
If we're concerned about bottom stalling, we could return them to feet after some time -- with no escape point. But this seems like a solution waiting for a problem. For the most part, there's been a lot less bottom stalling since the NF4 got instituted -- you can now lose the match with one turn, time to get out of there already.
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I agree that many times the challenges are improperly being used to give the wrestlers a breather. However, more often, the challenges are validly used to challenge a questionable call.
If you lost a point if you lose the challenge, I believe there would be virtually no challenges. You would be eliminating a lot valid challenges and a few invalid challenges to give wrestlers a breather.
I guess the question we have to ask is it more important that the close calls are made correctly or is it more important that we eliminate improper challenges which are intended to give the wrestlers a breather.
I think deducting a point for a lost challenge is too harsh. I would rather allocate a certain number of lost challenges that each wrestler can use during the tournament (i.e. each wrestler is allocated 2 lost challenges for the entire NCAA tournament). Once you've lost 2 challenges, you cannot challenge anymore.
Just repeating what Cox said. I know what happens from personal experience, you friggin barf all over the place. That being said, take 174 this past weekend, Valencia probably weighed around 185, Hall around 175. No reason why the weigh rules cannot be changed to a couple of hours prior to start of your first session of the day.
You could also change riding time to it only accrues after a takedown or reversal.
this is what I would do
I like the RT, but it should be a reward for scoring
also, a reversal should be 3 points
A must. A point for making your opponent step out of circle in a non-action situation. It would clearly improve the NCAA sport and move USA folkstyle a little closer to freestyle.
Also, team score represents total points scored by each wrestler. Wade Schalles' idea is brilliant. Want action? Here's the answer.
If moving forward was the criteria for aggressiveness, Sam Stoll would be the most watched wrestler at NCAAs for all the excitement he generates.
There could also be higher risk of water intoxication. But team trainers and doctors should handle food and water intake appropriately.
A reversal should be 3 points. It's just as hard (or harder) than an escape (1 point) and a takedown (2 points) and, for all intents and purposes, if the wrestler has the reversal he has both escaped and gotten the takedown.
The size discrepancy was so freakin' obvious in Hall/Valencia...the latter looked to be two wt. classes heavier...no kidding!
I never said moving forward is a criteria for aggressiveness. But too many wrestlers just move backwards and don't push the action.
That is WAY too many potential challenges, and will increase the number of lunger challenges, as now coaches would get 2+ per wrestler not 3 per team
(not that I have plan)
Let's say thirty for motivation and reward for pinning. Schalles proposes adding 10 points to score at time of the pin.
LINK:http://wadeschalles.com/a-point-earned-is-a-point-scored/
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It's not a perfect idea but it would motivate people to stay in the circle. I'm not proposing Sumo style but another way of keeping people very near each other. A boundry does just that. Wrestling on the edge is garbage.
I feel like there is (not always, I'll admit) great action on the edge! That scramble between Mark and Zahid was blisteringly hot.
Another rule I'd like to see (if only the nation's venues could accommodate) is 10' of unimpeded mat around the circle. Kuhn might have stuck Nato fer cryin' out loud!
Another rule I'd like to see (if only the nation's venues could accommodate) is 10' of unimpeded mat around the circle. Kuhn might have stuck Nato fer cryin' out loud!
I like mismatches in body types. Zahid is a freak because he's simultaneously lanky and super athletic. I do suspect by his semi performance that he's cutting a good bit of weight, but as stated above, that can cut both ways. It does stand to reason to me that weigh-ins should be at a consistent time period before any bout--allowances notwithstanding. I suspect logistics make this hard though.
I also hate the idea of a 1 point push-out rule. It just encourages the Sam Stoll/Tony Nelson stuff and you should never win a folkstyle match because you lean on someone and drive them around the mat with zero intention of ever taking a shot. It's the same as those times when a guy is up by a point or 2 or 3 after forcing the action for 6 or 6.5 minutes and he gets dinged once or more because his opponent suddenly begins furiously engaging and moving forward (we've seen it happen to Cenzo and Hall at nationals, among others). Those of you who have wrestled know, it's a dangerous time to take a shot and you shouldn't be penalized because someone finally comes to life after wrestling like a sloth for 6 minutes.
I love this for a number of reasons. One, why not make people hit the mat at a healthy weight? Two, some of the biggest negatives of the public perception is weight cutting. This measure could eliminate a negative in the sport. Three, it adds another level of drama to the proceedings.
Face it. Weight cutting is a bad thing on so many levels. When I coached junior high, I refused to have kids cutting weight. If they wanted to cut to a lower weight, I wouldn't let them. It's bad for the health of young people and the gamesmanship of weight cutting is a cynical part of the sport. Let guys wrestle a natural weight that doesn't involve cutting.
I don't think you've thought this through.
From the Rule Book, Rule 9, Section 2 (Weigh-Ins), Article 4:
Undergarments: All wrestlers shall weigh in wearing a minimum of a suitable undergarment, such as briefs, boxers, shorts or competition singlet. A garment shall not be altered and shall cover the entire buttocks.
Most weight-ins are performed in underwear. I don't think that's a visual that would be all that popular with the public, either at the event or on TV.
However, there is another problem:
From the Rule Book, Rule 9, Section 2 (Weigh-Ins), Article 3:
Location and Personnel: Weight-ins shall be conducted in a private, secured area at the site of competition or in an adjacent building to the competition, and attendance shall be limited to the wrestlers, coaches of the wrestlers, required medical personnel, the person(s) supervising the weight-in and others deemed necessary by the tournament administration.If the medical checks and/or weight-ins are being held in the competition arena, all spectators and unnecessary personnel shall not be permitted in the competition area until the weigh-ins are completed.
So basically, what you are advocating would be illegal per the rules.
Continuing upon that thought, there is another obstacle in the rules:
From the Rule Book, Rule 9, Section 2 (Weigh-Ins), Article 12:
One Weigh-In per Day: No team shall weigh in more than once per day.
Other challenges:
From the Rule Book, Rule 9, Section 2 (Weigh-Ins), Article 9:
Scales: It is recommend a digital scale be used for weigh-ins. All scales used for weigh-ins shall be certified before the start of each season. The scale(s) shall be made available to all participants a minimum of one hour before the scheduled weigh-in time.
The wrestlers do want to check their weight before weigh-ins. And yet with the exception of the early bouts in a Session, they don't even know what mat they'll be on. And once they do know that, they'd be hanging around the scale, and if they don't make weight they will go workout, then return, and repeat. The last thing that spectators, table people, or refs would want are people hanging around the table, and disrupting site lines for spectators or disrupting the management of the match, which is a combined effort of the ref, the table, and the respective coaching staffs.
I'm not even getting into the forms. There are official forms used at weigh-ins, which have to be collected and retained for 5 years.
Tournaments also have some specific rules concerning weigh-ins.
From the Rule Book, Rule 9, Section 4 (Weigh-Ins for Tournaments), Article 2:
Weigh-In Times: For individual or team-advancement tournaments, weigh-ins shall be held two hours or sooner before the first matches begin on the first day, and one hour or sooner before the first matches on subsequent days.
Finally, you seem to be forgetting that half of the weigh-in process is the skin-check procedure. This is when refs or medical personnel check a wrestlers skin (a big part of the reason why so little clothing is permitted to be worn during weigh-ins). If wrestlers are being treated for skin issues, then they/their team have to produce a Skin Evaluation and Participation Status Form, which has been filled out by a physician.
In one of Zahid's interviews this past weekend, he mentioned how funny it is to see 125 and 133 pounders he previously wrestled as a youth and went on to say he feels really good at 174, that he's not cutting an inordinate amount of weight. Surprising to me, but I guess we take him at his word. At the same time, he did seem to leave the possibility open to moving up to 184 next season depending on how things go.
'm not one to get overly excited about how much weight a wrestler can put on between a morning weigh-in and evening finals and still wrestle as effectively as possible, but the 1 hour weigh-in or some variation of it would solve those concerns.
In another interview with BoJo this past weekend, he mentioned that Micah weighed in 2 lbs under on Saturday morning and that he's (Micah) essentially wrestling at his natural weight. Was surprised to hear that given how extreme his cut to 141 appeared several years back.
I've thought it through and that's why the thread is titled "proposed" changes. Every single rule you've listed above can be easily re-written. Every post in this thread would require the rules to be changed, don't you agree?
Driving someone around the mat does not get you a point. Why would pushing forward in an attempt to engage be a bad thing. If you are shoving with your arms then you are stalling. If you continually backing up you are stalling. Stay on the mat! Minimize the rest times for going out of bounds. Slow the bailing out of getting taken down by leaping out of bounds.
Agree with most above!
Great suggestions! The one that sticks out to me the most is 4 I would love to see that
I don't know, Tom. I've heard enough comments from middle-aged women around Rec Hall, that I'm sure they wouldn't mind swooning over guys like Morgan, Bo, Q and others running around in their shorts.
Yes, to change rules, you would have to re-write existing rules. However, I stand by my claim that you haven't thought through your weigh-in proposal, as it's an absolute disaster as you proposed it.
I too recall PSU being the beneficiary of a MFF in the wrestlebacks several years back. Both that year and this year, it didn't turnout out to be the final difference in team scores, but it sure was nice to get at the time with the race still undecided.
I do think bonus points should be worth more in the championship bracket than they are on the backside. Cut 'em in half, it'll be good brain exercise on Saturday morning after a late night of drinking for the semi's to keep track of those .75 bonus points for tech falls.
Again, I've thought it through. There are relatively simple solutions to every roadblock you've listed above. For example, keep the scales available for wrestlers to check their weight earlier. Keep the 1-hour weigh-in with skin check. I could go on but you get the idea. However, my proposed change would be that they have to meet weight (or any agreed upon allowance) right before they step on the mat.
I see lots of discussion over the push out. I'd like to propose that the top wrestler gets hit with stalling if he pushes the bottom wrestler out from behind. Watching a bottom guy fight to get to his feet only to have the top guy run him out of bounds without any attempt at a takedown is just boring and not wrestling, imo.
i enjoy mat wrestling, but they need to start hitting the top man for stalling more
when i guy rides completely behind his opponents hips the entire time, making no effort to turn his opponent, that is text book stalling (IE: Kyle Dake)
this is also a big problem at the youth level IMO, especially with the 1 minute periods
a kid on our team (probably our best young kid) was in a tough match, down a point to start the 3rd. got a reversal in about 10 seconds and then just held his guy with a tight waist and wrist for 50 seconds. im coaching him but thinking he has to get hit for stalling. never did
when i guy rides completely behind his opponents hips the entire time, making no effort to turn his opponent, that is text book stalling (IE: Kyle Dake)
this is also a big problem at the youth level IMO, especially with the 1 minute periods
a kid on our team (probably our best young kid) was in a tough match, down a point to start the 3rd. got a reversal in about 10 seconds and then just held his guy with a tight waist and wrist for 50 seconds. im coaching him but thinking he has to get hit for stalling. never did
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