PSU potential starting Line up
- Thread starter millerjs32
- Start date
I've seen that guy at the top of the tree somewhere before ...
El-Jefe, how did the board meeting go? Did Cael present a compelling case? Do we have to consider his input?
Concerning weight certifications.
Maybe Roar can clarify, but I have never been aware of anybody being certified @ 121, 130, 138.5, 145, 156, 162, 173, 182 or 191.8. Kids get certified at the lowest weight class that they can compete.
When losing weight to get to the desired classification, exact weights at weigh-in are noted.
If its different I missed the change.
Maybe Roar can clarify, but I have never been aware of anybody being certified @ 121, 130, 138.5, 145, 156, 162, 173, 182 or 191.8. Kids get certified at the lowest weight class that they can compete.
When losing weight to get to the desired classification, exact weights at weigh-in are noted.
If its different I missed the change.
Just the other day, Rasheed was heard to say "Good job, Stout!" That can really help!
I would think the boys and coaching staff would use this thread as levity after a hard grueling dodgeball game and practice!
Just the other day, Rasheed was heard to say "Good job, Stout!" That can really help!
Freaking awesome post. Five stars.
A few early wins by Suriano and Joseph in particular and that ranking changes quickly.
And given the methodology for preseason rankings, tapping Mark Hall to go at 174 wouldn't change the initial ranking one bit.
INITIAL ASSESSMENT TO DETERMINE MINIMUM WRESTLING WEIGHT
Institutions are required to enter the student-athlete’s minimum wrestling weight assessment forms (Section I) online at http://www.trackwrestling.com on or before the first official practice October 10. When a student-athlete joins the team after the first official practice, that individual’s Section I form shall be completed before he or she begins practice.
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Condensed version. Each section may or may not have more details.
NOTE: This will be on the quiz...
From the NCAA Wrestling Weight Management Program
_________
NOTE: This will be on the quiz...
From the NCAA Wrestling Weight Management Program
_________
LOWEST ALLOWABLE WEIGHT-ONE [LAW1]
The lowest allowable weight at five percent body fat.
Step No. 1. Determine Hydrated Weight (BW). In order to obtain an accurate body composition, the student-athlete must be in a hydrated state. Urine specific gravity has been selected as the most practical, cost-efficient measure of hydration.
Step No. 2. Calculate Body Density (BD). Body density may be calculated by either (a) skin- fold measurement with calipers approved by medical personnel; (b) underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume; or (c) bod pod analysis.
Option A: Skin-folds.
Option B: Hydrostatic Weighing.
Option C: Bod Pod Analysis.
Step No. 3. Optimal Performance Calculator (OPC). The OPC will use the appropriate equation to automatically calculate the percentage of body fat (%BF), fat weight (FW), fat-free weight (FFW), and the lowest allowable weight-ONE [LAW1].
==========
LOWEST ALLOWABLE WEIGHT-TWO [LAW2]
Step No. 4. Number of Days of Weight Loss. Number of days between initial assessment and February 15th.
Step No. 5. Lowest Allowable Weight-TWO [LAW2]. The lowest allowable weight is calculated by using 1.5 percent of body weight lost per week from the initial assessment to certification date. The OPC will use the appropriate equation [BW - (.015/7) * # of days * BW] to automatically calculate the lowest allowable weight-TWO [LAW2].
========
MINIMUM WRESTLING WEIGHT
Step No. 6. Minimum Wrestling Weight. Select the higher value between LAW1 and LAW2 to determine minimum wrestling weight.
NOTE: If there is concern about results from a skin-fold measurement, prior to the coach confirming the lowest allowable weight, an analysis using the “gold standards” for specific gravity (refractometer) and body density (underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume) should be used. The use of bod pod analysis may also be used in this situation. The results of this analysis will be the final determination of the minimum wrestling weight and the appropriate wrestling weight class.
=======
MINIMUM WEIGHT CLASS
Step No. 7. Minimum Weight Class. The assessment form will display the minimum weight class the wrestler is eligible for after the minimum wrestling weight is established. The minimum weight class will be determined if the minimum wrestling weight is less than a weight class but higher than the next lower weight class.
The lowest allowable weight at five percent body fat.
Step No. 1. Determine Hydrated Weight (BW). In order to obtain an accurate body composition, the student-athlete must be in a hydrated state. Urine specific gravity has been selected as the most practical, cost-efficient measure of hydration.
Step No. 2. Calculate Body Density (BD). Body density may be calculated by either (a) skin- fold measurement with calipers approved by medical personnel; (b) underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume; or (c) bod pod analysis.
Option A: Skin-folds.
Option B: Hydrostatic Weighing.
Option C: Bod Pod Analysis.
==========
LOWEST ALLOWABLE WEIGHT-TWO [LAW2]
Step No. 4. Number of Days of Weight Loss. Number of days between initial assessment and February 15th.
Step No. 5. Lowest Allowable Weight-TWO [LAW2]. The lowest allowable weight is calculated by using 1.5 percent of body weight lost per week from the initial assessment to certification date. The OPC will use the appropriate equation [BW - (.015/7) * # of days * BW] to automatically calculate the lowest allowable weight-TWO [LAW2].
========
MINIMUM WRESTLING WEIGHT
Step No. 6. Minimum Wrestling Weight. Select the higher value between LAW1 and LAW2 to determine minimum wrestling weight.
NOTE: If there is concern about results from a skin-fold measurement, prior to the coach confirming the lowest allowable weight, an analysis using the “gold standards” for specific gravity (refractometer) and body density (underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume) should be used. The use of bod pod analysis may also be used in this situation. The results of this analysis will be the final determination of the minimum wrestling weight and the appropriate wrestling weight class.
=======
MINIMUM WEIGHT CLASS
Step No. 7. Minimum Weight Class. The assessment form will display the minimum weight class the wrestler is eligible for after the minimum wrestling weight is established. The minimum weight class will be determined if the minimum wrestling weight is less than a weight class but higher than the next lower weight class.
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The good news is... It will be an open-book quiz.
EXAMPLES
No. 1. Student-athlete A has a urine specific gravity of 1.025 on September 6. The student- athlete is instructed to return in 24 hours to be retested. Twenty-four hours later, the urine specific gravity is 1.011. The student-athlete is allowed to weigh-in and weighs 168 pounds. The skin-folds are measured and when calculated, give a body fat percentage of 12 percent. The fat weight of 20 pounds is calculated by multiplying 168 pounds by 12 percent. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds is calculated by subtracting 20 pounds from 168 pounds. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds and divided by 0.95 equals 156 pounds. This is the lowest allowable weight-ONE [LAW1] calculated with five percent body fat.
If desired, the coach may choose to not confirm the assessment and the student-athlete could retest using the gold standards of refractometer and underwater weighing with a direct measure
of residual volume. The bod pod is another viable option for retesting. The MWW achieved with these measurements would form the basis for the certified weight class.
No. 3. Student-athlete C is a four-year college transfer who wrestled last year for an NCAA Division II institution. This wrestler is required to complete Section I and the weight-loss plan form of the weight management program at the NCAA institution to which he or she transferred. If a student-athlete transfers from one NCAA institution to another NCAA institution after completing the Section I Certification for that season, the individual’s weight management certification information for that season shall transfer to the new institution. If the student- athlete transfers to an NCAA institution from a non-NCAA institution, the individual’s weight management certification information for that season does not transfer to the NCAA institution and the individual is required to complete the Section I certification process.
No. 4. Student-athlete D is a returning wrestler from the previous academic year. He or she must complete Section I Certification and the weight-loss plan form of the NCAA weight management program showing how much body weight can be lost in a given week over the weight-loss period and still not go below the minimum wrestling weight.
No. 1. Student-athlete A has a urine specific gravity of 1.025 on September 6. The student- athlete is instructed to return in 24 hours to be retested. Twenty-four hours later, the urine specific gravity is 1.011. The student-athlete is allowed to weigh-in and weighs 168 pounds. The skin-folds are measured and when calculated, give a body fat percentage of 12 percent. The fat weight of 20 pounds is calculated by multiplying 168 pounds by 12 percent. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds is calculated by subtracting 20 pounds from 168 pounds. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds and divided by 0.95 equals 156 pounds. This is the lowest allowable weight-ONE [LAW1] calculated with five percent body fat.
Specific Gravity = 1.025
Specific Gravity = 1.011 (24-hours later.)
BW=168lb.
BF = 12%
FW=168lb.x0.12=20lb. FFW=168lb.–20lb.=148 LAW1=148lb./0.95=156lb.
# of weeks = 15 weeks.
LAW2= 168– (1.5% x 15 wks x 168) = 130.2 lb. LAW1= 156 lb.>LAW2=130.2 lb.
Therefore, LAW1=MWW=156 lb.
No 2. The next example is student-athlete B. On September 25, the urine specific gravity is 1.016, hydrated body weight is 225 pounds and the percentage of body fat is 18 percent. This gives the wrestler a fat weight of 40.5 pounds (225 X 0.18) and a fat-free weight of 184.5 pounds (225 - 40.5). The LAW1 with five percent body fat is 194 pounds (184.5/0.95). The LAW2 is 198 pounds calculated by losing a maximum of 1.5 percent of original body weight per week [225 – (0.15 X 8) (225)]. Since the LAW2 is greater than the LAW1, the LAW2 of 198 pounds becomes the MWW. Although close, the wrestler could not compete in the 197-pound weight class but must compete at HWT (285).Specific Gravity = 1.011 (24-hours later.)
BW=168lb.
BF = 12%
FW=168lb.x0.12=20lb. FFW=168lb.–20lb.=148 LAW1=148lb./0.95=156lb.
# of weeks = 15 weeks.
LAW2= 168– (1.5% x 15 wks x 168) = 130.2 lb. LAW1= 156 lb.>LAW2=130.2 lb.
Therefore, LAW1=MWW=156 lb.
If desired, the coach may choose to not confirm the assessment and the student-athlete could retest using the gold standards of refractometer and underwater weighing with a direct measure
of residual volume. The bod pod is another viable option for retesting. The MWW achieved with these measurements would form the basis for the certified weight class.
- Specific Gravity = 1.016
- BW=225lb.
- BF = 18%
- FW=225lb.x0.18=40.5lb.
- FFW=225lb.–40.5lb.=184.5lb.
- LAW1 = 184.5 lb. / 0.95 = 194 lb.
- #OFWEEKS=8WEEKS
- LAW2 = 225-(1.5% X 8)(225)=198 lb.
- LAW2> LAW1; therefore, LAW2 becomes MWW of 198 lb.
Weight Class = 285 HWT
No. 4. Student-athlete D is a returning wrestler from the previous academic year. He or she must complete Section I Certification and the weight-loss plan form of the NCAA weight management program showing how much body weight can be lost in a given week over the weight-loss period and still not go below the minimum wrestling weight.
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The coaches have until March to get their act together.El-Jefe, how did the board meeting go? Did Cael present a compelling case? Do we have to consider his input?
That ingenious ranking was basically for the 3 man team of Zain, Jason and Bo. But u already knew that.
Someone is going to have to score more than 110 pts to beat this team. Don't see anyone doing it. The big three will account for 60-65 points, themselves. The others six, seven wrestlers should get the necessary 45-50 pts to reach 110. O$U can get close. But its all in the bonus points which you know PSU is good for 20-25 pts every tournament. The only thing derailing this train are injuries.
I think we're the favorite. If Tan Tom gets 3 champs (Snyder, TanBo, Tomasello) + 3 more high AAs (Hayes, Micah, Martin) + Moore as an AA -- and it is feasible -- that would be very competitive with us. But I think they'll be hindered at 165 and possibly 125, and that may be too much for them to overcome
Your point was ridiculous and really added nothing. The ranker in question even admitted he considers us the favorite so introducing Mark Hall into the mix wouldn't sway the ranking. Pretty elementary stuff Feynman.
Fess up - you're posting on this board more lately because you are getting tuned up on the FB board. How's that 3-9/4-8 prognostication going?
No worries, I'm learning the specifics of this stuff as we go as well. Check out what TJ just posted for more clarity on D1. I have no idea how it compares with D2 or HS.
Condensed version. Each section may or may not have more details. NOTE: This will be on the quiz...
From the NCAA Wrestling Weight Management Program
_________
MINIMUM WRESTLING WEIGHT
Step No. 6. Minimum Wrestling Weight. Select the higher value between LAW1 and LAW2 to determine minimum wrestling weight.NOTE: If there is concern about results from a skin-fold measurement, prior to the coach confirming the lowest allowable weight, an analysis using the “gold standards” for specific gravity (refractometer) and body density (underwater weighing with a direct measure of residual volume) should be used. The use of bod pod analysis may also be used in this situation. The results of this analysis will be the final determination of the minimum wrestling weight and the appropriate wrestling weight class.
=======
MINIMUM WEIGHT CLASS
Step No. 7. Minimum Weight Class. The assessment form will display the minimum weight class the wrestler is eligible for after the minimum wrestling weight is established. The minimum weight class will be determined if the minimum wrestling weight is less than a weight class but higher than the next lower weight class.
Excellent, thanks, TJ! Appears to clarify the board's common knowledge stickler: the distinction between Minimum Weight & Minimum Weight Class.
LOL - Well put CowboyUp61.
You're welcome. The rules have had many changes.
Hopefully the rules give some options regarding how to achieve reasonable results, while protecting wrestlers' health.
This is way beyond the days when the Phys Ed Coach
use to line up kids to play dodgeball... er, um... no, wait... oh never mind.
use to line up kids to play dodgeball... er, um... no, wait... oh never mind.
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Bonus points should be the deciding factor in the team races at both B10's and Nationals.
At Big 10- Penn State 1, our 2 champs are Zain and Nolf- Ohio State 2, their champs are Tomasello and Snyder, Iowa 3- only champ being Gilman.
At nationals Penn State 1, same champs, Ok state 2, chaps are cowboy-up and mikey. Ohio state 3, same champs and Iowa 4, gilman again. But then again we don't really know who's going to be at what weight.
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A quick observation on Bo's NCAA points for 184.
184 is so deep, there might not be the bonus point potential we would usually expect from Nickal.
Zain & Nolf ? Those two should combine for at least 48-50 themselves.
Zain scored 28.5 himself in 2016. Nolf scored 22 while taking 2nd (add 4 for 2017).
To compare, Bo scored 18 last year.
184 is so deep, there might not be the bonus point potential we would usually expect from Nickal.
Zain & Nolf ? Those two should combine for at least 48-50 themselves.
Zain scored 28.5 himself in 2016. Nolf scored 22 while taking 2nd (add 4 for 2017).
To compare, Bo scored 18 last year.
[/QUOTE]
No, I don't think this.
I'd guess--guess!--that Cael might have preferred the flexibility of having both Nickal & McCutcheon be allowed to compete in the 174 Weight Class, regardless of whether or not he might later ask them to cut & compete there at any point during the season.
But Cael publicly said that Nickal moving up to 184 to compete with McCutcheon was 'up to him.' And now Nickal's growth has made such flexibility moot: he's a six foot two, twenty-year-old man who's no longer a 174 class possibility. So, moving on from that...
I agree with others that it's going to be exciting to watch unfold, at any combo:
Nickal v McCutcheon at 184
Nickal v Stout at 197
McCutcheon v Stout at 197
McCutcheon v Rasheed v Morelli at 174
Cassar v his health v the calendar
Just as a discussion topic, what about Bo at 197?
He's 6ft 2in ?
There's only one sure thing at 197. It's the weakest field.
Before anyone says "it doesn't fit in his 86kg plan", both Cox & McIntosh are doing it.
Probably a dumb idea, but there's a thread on HR about the "what if" of Sammy Brooks going 97. Lol
He's 6ft 2in ?
There's only one sure thing at 197. It's the weakest field.
Before anyone says "it doesn't fit in his 86kg plan", both Cox & McIntosh are doing it.
Probably a dumb idea, but there's a thread on HR about the "what if" of Sammy Brooks going 97. Lol
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Not a bad idea, but I suspect that's too big of a jump too quickly.
Tan Tom had 2 guys do it -- with mixed results -- Nick Heflin backpedaled all the way into the national finals (in a similarly weak weight class), Mark Martin DNQ. IIRC both of them had pretty huge cuts to 174, where Bo didn't.
IMO if Bo had targeted 197 all along -- lifted to put on 20 lb of muscle -- then he might well have been in the finals against Cox this year. But he didn't.
If he goes 197 this year, he's giving up 13 lb of muscle. He'll have a decided quickness edge, but a lot of guys will turn into mini-heavies against him -- do everything to slow him down to a 3-2 type match. Doing that 3x-4x (to reach the finals) introduces quite a bit of risk.
I think the team stacks up better with Nickal at 184, but what do I know. I have no idea of Bo's walking around weight and how much muscle mass he put on. However, he's tall, quick and skilled so if he put on good weight look out. I really do prefer the Cael method of get stronger and if that means bumping up then so be it. Constant weight management is a factor that not all can handle. I expect big thinks from Jimmy G this year, but that's just me.
Strosser,
Great point. Count me in the group that thinks Jimmy AAs this year.
His sophomore year, 2nd year at 133, he did pretty well (outside of B1G tourney) and had some big wins.
I think the second year at the same 141 weight will help him greatly.
Great point. Count me in the group that thinks Jimmy AAs this year.
His sophomore year, 2nd year at 133, he did pretty well (outside of B1G tourney) and had some big wins.
I think the second year at the same 141 weight will help him greatly.
The good news is... It will be an open-book quiz.
EXAMPLES
No. 1. Student-athlete A has a urine specific gravity of 1.025 on September 6. The student- athlete is instructed to return in 24 hours to be retested. Twenty-four hours later, the urine specific gravity is 1.011. The student-athlete is allowed to weigh-in and weighs 168 pounds. The skin-folds are measured and when calculated, give a body fat percentage of 12 percent. The fat weight of 20 pounds is calculated by multiplying 168 pounds by 12 percent. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds is calculated by subtracting 20 pounds from 168 pounds. The fat-free weight of 148 pounds and divided by 0.95 equals 156 pounds. This is the lowest allowable weight-ONE [LAW1] calculated with five percent body fat.
Specific Gravity = 1.025No 2. The next example is student-athlete B. On September 25, the urine specific gravity is 1.016, hydrated body weight is 225 pounds and the percentage of body fat is 18 percent. This gives the wrestler a fat weight of 40.5 pounds (225 X 0.18) and a fat-free weight of 184.5 pounds (225 - 40.5). The LAW1 with five percent body fat is 194 pounds (184.5/0.95). The LAW2 is 198 pounds calculated by losing a maximum of 1.5 percent of original body weight per week [225 – (0.15 X 8) (225)]. Since the LAW2 is greater than the LAW1, the LAW2 of 198 pounds becomes the MWW. Although close, the wrestler could not compete in the 197-pound weight class but must compete at HWT (285).
Specific Gravity = 1.011 (24-hours later.)
BW=168lb.
BF = 12%
FW=168lb.x0.12=20lb. FFW=168lb.–20lb.=148 LAW1=148lb./0.95=156lb.
# of weeks = 15 weeks.
LAW2= 168– (1.5% x 15 wks x 168) = 130.2 lb. LAW1= 156 lb.>LAW2=130.2 lb.
Therefore, LAW1=MWW=156 lb.
If desired, the coach may choose to not confirm the assessment and the student-athlete could retest using the gold standards of refractometer and underwater weighing with a direct measure
of residual volume. The bod pod is another viable option for retesting. The MWW achieved with these measurements would form the basis for the certified weight class.
No. 3. Student-athlete C is a four-year college transfer who wrestled last year for an NCAA Division II institution. This wrestler is required to complete Section I and the weight-loss plan form of the weight management program at the NCAA institution to which he or she transferred. If a student-athlete transfers from one NCAA institution to another NCAA institution after completing the Section I Certification for that season, the individual’s weight management certification information for that season shall transfer to the new institution. If the student- athlete transfers to an NCAA institution from a non-NCAA institution, the individual’s weight management certification information for that season does not transfer to the NCAA institution and the individual is required to complete the Section I certification process.
- Specific Gravity = 1.016
- BW=225lb.
- BF = 18%
- FW=225lb.x0.18=40.5lb.
- FFW=225lb.–40.5lb.=184.5lb.
- LAW1 = 184.5 lb. / 0.95 = 194 lb.
- #OFWEEKS=8WEEKS
- LAW2 = 225-(1.5% X 8)(225)=198 lb.
- LAW2> LAW1; therefore, LAW2 becomes MWW of 198 lb.
Weight Class = 285 HWT
No. 4. Student-athlete D is a returning wrestler from the previous academic year. He or she must complete Section I Certification and the weight-loss plan form of the NCAA weight management program showing how much body weight can be lost in a given week over the weight-loss period and still not go below the minimum wrestling weight.
Thanks, TJ. More complicated than I realized, and that's putting it mildly.
You're welcome lobo lion. Glad it is helpful to some folks.
BTW - Did you catch that bad boy Northern Pike, if that is what it is?
That's a really nice looking fish. Likely a lot of fun to fight into the net.
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Yeah, I go to Canada every year for pike and walleye fishing; sometimes lake trout. This particular pike came from Waskaiowaka Lake in northern Manitoba and was 42 inches.
THANKS all. Out of pocket for a week or so with Mrs. Roar. Just able to catch up today.
Oh, and a page or so back there was reference to Cael's feelings about Bo at 184. He was completely neutral to the situation...as well as other's regarding the team.
Oh, and a page or so back there was reference to Cael's feelings about Bo at 184. He was completely neutral to the situation...as well as other's regarding the team.
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