Ray Blehar: Evidence in 2001 Twisted, Tainted, and Incomplete

[roswelllion]

So if you think I am "attacking" you I apologize. If you reread most of these posts I it seems you attack early and often. I am one of those who really cares only about C/S/S and JVP.. and at this point could care less about JS. My only interest in the JS situation is that observing the C/S/S JVP cases has IMO shown a completely corrupt Pa court system.
People everyday get wrongly convicted of crimes [not talking JS here]. However if you combine a "the end justifies the means" approach [as I think you have done in the JS case] and a corrupt OAG and court system you can end up with some pretty scary results. [again not talking JS]

 

[palmettolion]

I think Paterno should've retired after the basketball on turf comments he made after the 94 season, as I've said before. I'm not worried about exonerating him or his legacy, I'm content to let his family handle that through their lawsuit.

I think JZ is a whackjob and his victim shaming is disgusting. I've never once questioned a victim of JS.

I think JS is guilty of CSA and is exactly where he needs to be. I don't want him to get a new trial, however, it seems to me the one he got wasn't exactly on the level.

I'm most concerned with the people that skated on this thing that have culpability; JR, TSM, CYS, DPW, etc. I think the truth of this matter remains partially hidden to protect those people and I find that reprehensible.

Just because the result was correct doesn't make it okay. I think it's disingenuous to take an ends justify the means approach when it's clear that it was gotten in an underhanded at best way.

I also don't see how that makes me a JoeBot, or a JZ supporter or a member of the free Jerry brigade like some here like to claim, regardless of the convenience it affords their argument.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I never called you a troll and don't think you are one, at least not by my definition. You can't decipher the difference.

Actually I can and it's used wrong on this site, but oh well. Have a great day. Some good recruiting stuff the next two weeks. I'll bow out of the shitshow for a while.

 

[Mixolydian]

Actually I can and it's used wrong on this site, but oh well. Have a great day. Some good recruiting stuff the next two weeks. I'll bow out of the shitshow for a while.

FWIW I respect you, appreciate your presence here (and especially on the football side ) and agree with a lot of what you think, just not all. Peace.

 

[didier]

BK was interviewed twice, not once -- based on the information I rec'd from someone who was there.

BTW, did you notice that there is no statement or indication that the only reported interview w/BK was without the consent of a parent?

That's very interesting Ray. I think there's definitely more to the BK stuff. They've never published the interview Miller and Schreffler had with him May 4.

Ganim had mentioned something about the mother of a victim dropping her son off with the police but not going to the interview and not asking him what he talked to them about. From her writing it was never clear whether she was referring to V6 or BK. It didn't make sense to be V6 since his mother initiated the call and Schreffler said she was present with the interview, but this would jive with what you're saying about BK.

Appreciate the info. What do you think about the last page of the police report?

 

[rmb297]

While i agree with your points on these items, I think the author is arguing that CPSL mandates that CMHS would have been mandated to call Law Enforcement had Aaron Fisher, V1, alleged some form of Deviant Sexual Acts (i.e., child rape) and the reason they did not call Police was because no such sexual acts were alleged by Fisher to CMHS employees.

Moreover, CPSL was not followed even when Clinton County CYS and DPW became involved, processed an indicated finding and involved Law Enforcement. The Clinton County DA abdicated the case which would be at odds with CPSL given that Sandusky was at CMHS via The Second Mile and a formal relationship TSM had with Clinton County CYS (and had been a TSM Volunteer at CMHS for many years by late 2008). While CPSL would allow the Clinton County DA to ask for help (probably allowing the involvement of the OAG), it in no way permits the Clinton County DA to abdicate their clear responsibilities under the Code). The OAG taking over the case is a clear violation of CPSL and the OAG invoking the PA SWIGJ is also a clear abuse of both the CPS and SWIGJ Laws in regards to investigating V1's Case - a SWIGJ has clearly defined "subject-matter authority" in PA and a SWIGJ clearly has no "subject-matter authority" in regards to the V1 investigation.

And again, the "expert" is wrong. The section of the Public Welfare Code he referenced applies to reports of abuse against a "school employee." Sandusky was not a school employee. He was an unpaid volunteer.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter3490/s3490.143.html

"School employe—A person employed by or under contract with a school."

So the argument that they didn't call police is because Fisher didn't allege sexual acts is both legally and factually wrong.

The principal (Probst) and the guidance counselor (Smith) asked him if someone was hurting him sexually. He answered affirmatively. That's all that was required to mandate a call to CYS. The idea that Fisher had to allege some horrific sex act for them to suspect abuse is nothing more than the "expert's" fantasy. (Much like the next part of your post).

Law enforcement became involved well before a finding was indicated. CYS indicated the finding in January 2009. The police began their criminal investigation on December 12th.

The Clinton County DA's has no specific role under the CPSL if the case does not involve a school employee. That said, the transfer of the case to Centre County was done because that's where the majority of crimes occurred.

Finally, the OAG didn't violate anything in the CPSL because it was NOT conducting a CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES investigation because Sandusky had already been "indicated."

The OAG conducted a criminal investigation that did not involve children. The other five victims that the OAG contacted were ADULTS.

BTW, once Jerry was convicted the "indicated" report became a "founded" report.

Based on what went down here, there were two areas that weren't done correctly:
1) Clinton County should have recused itself due to its relationship with TSM.
2) A multi-disciplinary team of police, CPS, and a health care provider should have been convened to investigate.

Outside of that, the rest of what happened, including the use of a grand jury, was legally correct.

 

[indynittany]

At the end of the day, Penn State authored the narrative we're all arguing about. I want to know why. Paterno's legacy and the reputation of the football program was worth an almost incalculable amount of money and good will in perpetuity. It's not just that the BOT didn't put up a fight or call for due process, but they led the effort! Why? What was their motive?

 

[rmb297]

That's very interesting Ray. I think there's definitely more to the BK stuff. They've never published the interview Miller and Schreffler had with him May 4.

Ganim had mentioned something about the mother of a victim dropping her son off with the police but not going to the interview and not asking him what he talked to them about. From her writing it was never clear whether she was referring to V6 or BK. It didn't make sense to be V6 since his mother initiated the call and Schreffler said she was present with the interview, but this would jive with what you're saying about BK.

Appreciate the info. What do you think about the last page of the police report?

I agree that there is much more to the BK story.

BK and V6 lived in Nittany Gardens -- owned by Bruce Heim.

I don't believe for a second that the mother sat in the car outside the police station. I also don't believe she let her 10 year old son talk to the police then not ask him what it was about. Ganim won a Pulitzer for that crap???

What really happened. My guess is that after the first V6 interview where he mentioned BK, the cops called BK's school, got the mother's name and had her drive him to the UP police department where he was interviewed in the presence of the mother with her permission (by Schreffler only).

Miller, in response to Schreffler's earlier phone conversation, called back and said he was assigned to the case. Schreffler then explained that he had interviewed BK. Miller said he would return at 6PM.

Miller and Schreffler discussed the earlier interviews, then departed to interview the kids at their Nittany Garden apartments. When they arrived at BK's home, his mother was not there but an older sibling was. They interviewed him even though the mother didn't give permission.

At the Sandusky trial, Schreffler didn't have to answer questions about BK.

I believe BK is the key to the 1998 case -- but he ain't talking.

As for the last page of the police report, definitely NOT Schreffler's handwriting, in my unqualified opinion. Why did he print his name after using cursive on all the other pages?
It is customary to affix a signature to an official document.

Definitely questionable.

 

[didier]

I agree that there is much more to the BK story.

BK and V6 lived in Nittany Gardens -- owned by Bruce Heim.

I don't believe for a second that the mother sat in the car outside the police station. I also don't believe she let her 10 year old son talk to the police then not ask him what it was about. Ganim won a Pulitzer for that crap???

What really happened. My guess is that after the first V6 interview where he mentioned BK, the cops called BK's school, got the mother's name and had her drive him to the UP police department where he was interviewed in the presence of the mother with her permission (by Schreffler only).

Miller, in response to Schreffler's earlier phone conversation, called back and said he was assigned to the case. Schreffler then explained that he had interviewed BK. Miller said he would return at 6PM.

Miller and Schreffler discussed the earlier interviews, then departed to interview the kids at their Nittany Garden apartments. When they arrived at BK's home, his mother was not there but an older sibling was. They interviewed him even though the mother didn't give permission.

At the Sandusky trial, Schreffler didn't have to answer questions about BK.

I believe BK is the key to the 1998 case -- but he ain't talking.

As for the last page of the police report, definitely NOT Schreffler's handwriting, in my unqualified opinion. Why did he print his name after using cursive on all the other pages?
It is customary to affix a signature to an official document.

Definitely questionable.

Thanks for the great analysis. Will be interesting to see how this goes forward.

 

[sluggo72]

At the end of the day, Penn State authored the narrative we're all arguing about. I want to know why. Paterno's legacy and the reputation of the football program was worth an almost incalculable amount of money and good will in perpetuity. It's not just that the BOT didn't put up a fight or call for due process, but they led the effort! Why? What was their motive?

Good questions. Did a stone roll down a hill and they couldn't stop it??

 

[dshumbero]

I think Paterno should've retired after the basketball on turf comments he made after the 94 season, as I've said before. I'm not worried about exonerating him or his legacy, I'm content to let his family handle that through their lawsuit.

I think JZ is a whackjob and his victim shaming is disgusting. I've never once questioned a victim of JS.

I think JS is guilty of CSA and is exactly where he needs to be. I don't want him to get a new trial, however, it seems to me the one he got wasn't exactly on the level.

I'm most concerned with the people that skated on this thing that have culpability; JR, TSM, CYS, DPW, etc. I think the truth of this matter remains partially hidden to protect those people and I find that reprehensible.

Just because the result was correct doesn't make it okay. I think it's disingenuous to take an ends justify the means approach when it's clear that it was gotten in an underhanded at best way.

I also don't see how that makes me a JoeBot, or a JZ supporter or a member of the free Jerry brigade like some here like to claim, regardless of the convenience it affords their argument.

Just slap on a jockstrap and swimming trunks and it will all be OK.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

So Ray, what does your research tell you about all these connections between Republican elected LE and politicos (especially politicians who advanced their careers through elected, powerful County-level and State-Level Law Enforcement positions.....via abuse of the powers they were given POLITICALLY!)

And again, the "expert" is wrong. The section of the Public Welfare Code he referenced applies to reports of abuse against a "school employee." Sandusky was not a school employee. He was an unpaid volunteer.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter3490/s3490.143.html

"School employe—A person employed by or under contract with a school."

So the argument that they didn't call police is because Fisher didn't allege sexual acts is both legally and factually wrong.

The principal (Probst) and the guidance counselor (Smith) asked him if someone was hurting him sexually. He answered affirmatively. That's all that was required to mandate a call to CYS. The idea that Fisher had to allege some horrific sex act for them to suspect abuse is nothing more than the "expert's" fantasy. (Much like the next part of your post).

Law enforcement became involved well before a finding was indicated. CYS indicated the finding in January 2009. The police began their criminal investigation on December 12th.

The Clinton County DA's has no specific role under the CPSL if the case does not involve a school employee. That said, the transfer of the case to Centre County was done because that's where the majority of crimes occurred.

Finally, the OAG didn't violate anything in the CPSL because it was NOT conducting a CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES investigation because Sandusky had already been "indicated."

The OAG conducted a criminal investigation that did not involve children. The other five victims that the OAG contacted were ADULTS.

BTW, once Jerry was convicted the "indicated" report became a "founded" report.

Based on what went down here, there were two areas that weren't done correctly:
1) Clinton County should have recused itself due to its relationship with TSM.
2) A multi-disciplinary team of police, CPS, and a health care provider should have been convened to investigate.

Outside of that, the rest of what happened, including the use of a grand jury, was legally correct.

Yes, but the OAG (Corrupt Corbutt at the time) claimed that it was already a "Founded Report" in his seminal SWIGJ Application on 5/1/2009 made to Corrupt SWIGJ Supervising Judge Barry Feudale - a claim which was clearly false. The "Founded Report" (i.e., prosecuted) was supposedly generated by the Clinton County CYS Office which you just admitted was handled in contravention of CPSL given Clinton County CYS's relationship with TSM (including "Bud" Yost, a Clinton County Commissioner and former Mayor of Lock Haven being a Board Member of TSM). In addition, Clinton County CYS supposedly made a report to DPW in Harrisburg, but Harrisburg did not involve themselves in the investigation despite the fact that they clearly should have become involved as you state above. So the beginning of your last sentence is somewhat incredible - "Outside of that".....IOW, outside of Clinton County CYS and DPW completely mishandling V1's Report under CPSL and the ensuing investigation, as well as Corbutt's clearly fraudulent SWIGJ Application (a SWIGJ he mis-used and abused to go after PSU administrators that had zero to do with V1), it was handled perfectly legally -- okay, got it. LOL

 

[Lisa1994]

That's a seemingly good point by Covey (though I have him on ignore), however the tampering has to be believable. Spanier had no recollection of the email, however, he stated that the language sounded like something he would write.

Conversely, if the tamperer wrote: Tim, I agree with your approach and it is a humane way to proceed, the only downside is that if Sandusky commits more crimes we'll all be in jail.

Spanier would know if he wrote something like that.

While I can't disclose what I know, I can say without reservation that the AG is not providing authentic evidence.

If the clown who did the tampering understood the issues with downloading files from Eudora into Outlook and editing them, then we'd have no clue that these emails were edited.

I'm going to be all happy with myself now:
I pointed out this email on this forum (the old one) way back when Freeh released his nonsense, asking for techie opinions on it because when you zoomed in on it, it was pixelated in a strange way. It looked different from the others when magnified.

 

[nits74]

I'm going to be all happy with myself now:
I pointed out this email on this forum (the old one) way back when Freeh released his nonsense, asking for techie opinions on it because when you zoomed in on it, it was pixelated in a strange way. It looked different from the others when magnified.

And I remember well your post.

 

[Lisa1994]

And I remember well your post.

I was hoping someone would!

 

[rmb297]

So Ray, what does your research tell you about all these connections between Republican elected LE and politicos (especially politicians who advanced their careers through elected, powerful County-level and State-Level Law Enforcement positions.....via abuse of the powers they were given POLITICALLY!)



Yes, but the OAG (Corrupt Corbutt at the time) claimed that it was already a "Founded Report" in his seminal SWIGJ Application on 5/1/2009 made to Corrupt SWIGJ Supervising Judge Barry Feudale - a claim which was clearly false. The "Founded Report" (i.e., prosecuted) was supposedly generated by the Clinton County CYS Office which you just admitted was handled in contravention of CPSL given Clinton County CYS's relationship with TSM (including "Bud" Yost, a Clinton County Commissioner and former Mayor of Lock Haven being a Board Member of TSM). In addition, Clinton County CYS supposedly made a report to DPW in Harrisburg, but Harrisburg did not involve themselves in the investigation despite the fact that they clearly should have become involved as you state above. So the beginning of your last sentence is somewhat incredible - "Outside of that".....IOW, outside of Clinton County CYS and DPW completely mishandling V1's Report under CPSL and the ensuing investigation, as well as Corbutt's clearly fraudulent SWIGJ Application (a SWIGJ he mis-used and abused to go after PSU administrators that had zero to do with V1), it was handled perfectly legally -- okay, got it. LOL

1. As this case unfolded, it became clear that few people at CYS, DPW, and LE knew what the rules were about how to investigate the cases.

2. "Founded" was the wrong term. Mistakes happen.

3. The AF case wasn't completely mishandled. They got it right. 1998 was completely mishandled because not only did they get it wrong, but Centre County CYS didn't recuse itself. The reason for a conflict of interest recusal is obviously because of the perceived bias in favor of the suspect. No such bias existed in Clinton County CYS (but did at CMHS, Centre County CYS, and Harrisburg DPW).

4. The grand jury was convened to make the case die a slow, secret death. To your original point, there were many political "ties" between Harrisburg and TSM that had to be hidden -- thus the secret grand jury.

5. The case was dead until Corbett got mad at Spanier -- at that point the grand jury was misused to go after PSU administrators. However, the case needed a deflection point away from TSM -- and that's how Mike got used. His benign report in 2001 was turned into a rape.

6. Yes, the system is corrupt and DPW/CYS is a mess, but none of that has any impact at all on the fact that Sandusky is a child molester.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

So Ray, what does your research tell you about all these connections between Republican elected LE and politicos (especially politicians who advanced their careers through elected, powerful County-level and State-Level Law Enforcement positions.....via abuse of the powers they were given POLITICALLY!)

And again, the "expert" is wrong. The section of the Public Welfare Code he referenced applies to reports of abuse against a "school employee." Sandusky was not a school employee. He was an unpaid volunteer.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/055/chapter3490/s3490.143.html

"School employe—A person employed by or under contract with a school."

So the argument that they didn't call police is because Fisher didn't allege sexual acts is both legally and factually wrong.

The principal (Probst) and the guidance counselor (Smith) asked him if someone was hurting him sexually. He answered affirmatively. That's all that was required to mandate a call to CYS. The idea that Fisher had to allege some horrific sex act for them to suspect abuse is nothing more than the "expert's" fantasy. (Much like the next part of your post).

Law enforcement became involved well before a finding was indicated. CYS indicated the finding in January 2009. The police began their criminal investigation on December 12th.

The Clinton County DA's has no specific role under the CPSL if the case does not involve a school employee. That said, the transfer of the case to Centre County was done because that's where the majority of crimes occurred.

Finally, the OAG didn't violate anything in the CPSL because it was NOT conducting a CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES investigation because Sandusky had already been "indicated."

The OAG conducted a criminal investigation that did not involve children. The other five victims that the OAG contacted were ADULTS.

BTW, once Jerry was convicted the "indicated" report became a "founded" report.

Based on what went down here, there were two areas that weren't done correctly:
1) Clinton County should have recused itself due to its relationship with TSM.
2) A multi-disciplinary team of police, CPS, and a health care provider should have been convened to investigate.

Outside of that, the rest of what happened, including the use of a grand jury, was legally correct.

Yes, but the OAG (Corrupt Corbutt at the time) claimed that it was already a "Founded Report" in his seminal SWIGJ Application on 5/1/2009 made to Corrupt SWIGJ Supervising Judge Barry Feudale - a claim which was clearly false. The "Founded Report" (i.e., prosecuted) was supposedly generated by the Clinton County CYS Office which you just admitted was handled in contravention of CPSL given Clinton County CYS's relationship with TSM (including "Bud" Yost, a Clinton County Commissioner and former Mayor of Lock Haven being a Board Member of TSM). In addition, Clinton County CYS supposedly made a report to DPW in Harrisburg, but Harrisburg did not involve themselves in the investigation despite the fact that they clearly should have become involved as you state above. So the beginning of your last sentence is somewhat incredible - "Outside of that".....IOW, outside of Clinton County CYS and DPW completely mishandling V1's Report under CPSL and the ensuing investigation, as well as Corbutt's clearly fraudulent SWIGJ Application (a SWIGJ he mis-used and abused to go after PSU administrators that had zero to do with V1), it was handled perfectly legally -- okay, got it. LOL

Also, let me guess, it is mere coinky-dink that crack AG, Corrupt Corbutt, never thought to go investigate the charity he names in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application as the "way and means" by which Sandusky accessed V1, as well as potentially other children, for abuse for leads to additional potential abuse victims? This despite the AG having auspice over all charities in PA and they function in PA at the pleasure of the AG who can investigate their records and files any time they desire (especially if the AG believes the charity was FOUNDED for fraudulent, criminal reason by its FOUNDER - which Corbutt clearly stated was the suspition in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application!). Weird how AG Corbutt NEVER INVESTIGATED the suspitions he enumerated about The Second Mile in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application, no??? Here was Corbutt's exact wording about The Second Mile in the 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application:

The Pennsylvania State Police are pursuing an investigation based upon a founded Clinton County Children and Youth Services complaint alleging sexual assault by a Centre county adult male upon a juvenile male with whom he became acquainted through his sponsorship of a· charity for disadvantaged youth. It is believed that other minor males have been similarly assaulted through this connection. The investigation concerns allegations of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, and corruption of minors in Clinton and Centre counties.​

So Corrupt Corbutt suspected that Sandusky founded TSM for the purpose of accessing minors for the purpose of "involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, and corruption of minors in Clinton and Centre counties.", but he never thought to go investigate the charity that Sandusky FOUNDED for supposedly, not only FRAUDULENT, but CRIMINALLY FRAUDULENT (insanely criminally fraudulent purposes given that it was founded to access and criminally rape minors) purposes???? That's a highly interesting take on the matter....LOL

 

[rmb297]

At the end of the day, Penn State authored the narrative we're all arguing about. I want to know why. Paterno's legacy and the reputation of the football program was worth an almost incalculable amount of money and good will in perpetuity. It's not just that the BOT didn't put up a fight or call for due process, but they led the effort! Why? What was their motive?

Short version:
1. Sandusky wasn't supposed to be prosecuted because of the ties between Harrisburg and TSM.
2. Corbett had a vendetta against Spanier. Once elected, he set the ball in motion. Also, because of his election he became an ex officio Trustee -- enter John Surma.
3. Surma wanted rid of Paterno. Deal was cut. PSU completely scapegoated and TSM protected (thanks, Ira Lubert).
4. BOT members believed that if they "saved" football (pacifying the PSU football culture) and quickly settled with the victims this would all be in the rear view mirror by 2014.

 

[rmb297]

Also, let me guess, it is mere coinky-dink that crack AG, Corrupt Corbutt, never thought to go investigate the charity he names in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application as the "way and means" by which Sandusky was accessing children for abuse for leads to additional potential abuse victims? This despite the AG having auspice over all charities in PA and they function in PA at the pleasure of the AG who can investigate their records and files any time they desire (especially if the AG believes the charity was FOUNDED for fraudulent, criminal reason by its FOUNDER - which Corbutt clearly stated was the suspition in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application!). Weird how AG Corbutt NEVER INVESTIGATED the suspitions he enumerated about The Second Mile in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application, no??? Here was Corbutt's exact wording about The Second Mile in the 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application:

The Pennsylvania State Police are pursuing an investigation based upon a founded Clinton County Children and Youth Services complaint alleging sexual assault by a Centre county adult male upon a juvenile male with whom he became acquainted through his sponsorship of a· charity for disadvantaged youth. It is believed that other minor males have been similarly assaulted through this connection. The investigation concerns allegations of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, and corruption of minors in Clinton and Centre counties.​

So Corrupt Corbutt suspected that Sandusky founded TSM for the purpose of accessing minors for the purpose of "involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault, and corruption of minors in Clinton and Centre counties.", but he never thought to go investigate the charity that Sandusky FOUNDED for supposedly, not only FRAUDULENT, but CRIMINALLY FRAUDULENT (insanely criminally fraudulent purposes given that it was founded to access and criminally rape minors) purposes???? That's a highly interesting take on the matter....LOL

You should have waited to read my response. I agree with you. The actions after convening the grand jury made no sense if the goal was to find more victims who were connected with TSM.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

You should have waited to read my response. I agree with you. The actions after convening the grand jury made no sense if the goal was to find more victims who were connected with TSM.

Hmmm, so let me see if I have this straight - other than...:

• A clearly conflicted Clinton County CYS completely mishandling V1's Report and "DPW Investigation" under CPSL Code and Provisions, and
• A factually mis-stated SWIGJ Application by Corrupt Corbutt to a publicly disgraced SWIGJ Judge who has proven to be Corrupt, and willing to engage in Judicial Misconduct relative to the SWIGJ in the C/S/S cases, and
• Corrupt Corbutt never using the SWIGJ for the purposes he ennumerated in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application that contained factual misstatements relative to the DPW CPSL-mandated Investigation, and
• Corrupt Corbutt abusing the granted SWIGJ powers of the incorrectly-stated and specified SWIGJ Application to tyrannize and terrorize political opponents and for his own personal agendas....

Other than those minor trivial items, the V1 "Investigation" was handled legally and properly....and "by the book"??? Again, LOL!

This is a very novel theory that it is utter "coinky-dink" that the entire V1 "investigation" was completely mishandled under CPSL Code from the get go including the convening of an illegitimate SWIGJ being "coinky-dink" rather than "orchestrated". Again, is it also "coinky-dink" that all of the players involved here -- Yost, Bossert, Salisbury, Madeira, the Clinton County CYS Office, the Centre County CYS Office, Robert Poole (Chairman of TSM Board), Corbutt, etc... ALL are highly connected to the Republican Party in Pennsylvania that just happened to railroad PSU and use PSU as a foil to protect, and not only shield all of the guilty parties at TSM and the Childcare Rgulatory Agencies, but also use PSU as an "Indemnification Entity" to protect these parties from becoming personally liable via TSM, gross negligence, etc....? All just "coinky-dink" and not clear abuse of publicly granted powers otherwise known as illegal "tyranny" under the PA and US Constitutions???

 

[rmb297]

Hmmm, so let me see if I have this straight - other than...:

• A clearly conflicted Clinton County CYS completely mishandling V1's Report and "DPW Investigation" under CPSL Code and Provisions, and
• A factually mis-stated SWIGJ Application by Corrupt Corbutt to a publicly disgraced SWIGJ Judge who has proven to be Corrupt, and willing to engage in Judicial Misconduct relative to the SWIGJ in the C/S/S cases, and
• Corrupt Corbutt never using the SWIGJ for the purposes he ennumerated in his 5/1/2009 SWIGJ Application that contained factual misstatements relative to the DPW CPSL-mandated Investigation, and
• Corrupt Corbutt abusing the granted SWIGJ powers of the incorrectly-stated and specified SWIGJ Application to tyrannize and terrorize political opponents and for his own personal agendas....

Other than those minor trivial items, the V1 "Investigation" was handled legally and properly....and "by the book"??? Again, LOL!

This is a very novel theory that it is utter "coinky-dink" that the entire V1 "investigation" was completely mishandled under CPSL Code from the get go including the convening of an illegitimate SWIGJ being "coinky-dink" rather than "orchestrated". Again, is it also "coinky-dink" that all of the players involved here -- Yost, Bossert, Salisbury, Madeira, the Clinton County CYS Office, the Centre County CYS Office, Robert Poole (Chairman of TSM Board), Corbutt, etc... ALL are highly connected to the Republican Party in Pennsylvania that just happened to railroad PSU and use PSU as a foil to protect, and not only shield all of the guilty parties at TSM and the Childcare Rgulatory Agencies, but also use PSU as an "Indemnification Entity" to protect these parties from becoming personally liable via TSM, gross negligence, etc....? All just "coinky-dink" and not clear abuse of publicly granted powers otherwise known as illegal "tyranny" under the PA and US Constitutions???

Ok. Let me type this r e a l l y s l o w l y...

The V1 child abuse investigation was COMPLETE in January 2009.

What happened after that was criminal matter after Centre County passed the buck to AG Corbett. As much as the GJ was just to let the case die, the AG had discretion to use it. Nothing illegal about that.

Using it improperly is another matter, but that is a difficult argument to make because Sandusky was eventually prosecuted and convicted. Also, the Commonwealth will argue that its use to investigate PSU was a result of what it uncovered (cough) when it got the (cough) anonymous tip.

Why do you continue to harp on something that I agree with you about -- namely that the grand jury was just for show in the beginning and then used to go after PSU officials?

Finally, I really don't understand why you are so upset that DPW wasn't brought into the matter to investigate (unless your only goal here is to complain that the system didn't operate perfectly).

DPW is brought in to avoid conflicts of interest that would result in a perpetrator being allowed to have continued access to children. That didn't happen. You could hardly call this investigation completely mishandled when it effectively did what it was supposed to do.

If you want one that fits that description, see 1998.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Ok. Let me type this r e a l l y s l o w l y...

The V1 child abuse investigation was COMPLETE in January 2009.

What happened after that was criminal matter after Centre County passed the buck to AG Corbett. As much as the GJ was just to let the case die, the AG had discretion to use it. Nothing illegal about that.

Using it improperly is another matter, but that a difficult argument to make because Sandusky was eventually prosecuted and convicted.

Why do you continue to harp on something that I agree with you about -- namely that the grand jury was just for show in the beginning and then used to go after PSU officials?

Finally, I really don't understand why you are so upset that DPW wasn't brought into the matter(unless your only goal here is to complain that the system didn't operate perfectly).

Again, DPW is brought in to avoid conflicts of interest that would result in a perpetrator being allowed to have continued access to children. That didn't happen. You could hardly call this investigation completely mishandled when it effectively did what it was supposed to do.

If you want one that fits that description, see 1998.

Perhaps because you continue to act like the PA SWIGJ Code and the "extraordinary" powers and authority it grants were not INTENTIONALLY ABUSED by the OAG's Office under both Corbutt, and his personally hand-selected lame-duck AG, Kelly, once he became Governor (i.e., prosecutorial and judicial misconduct which amounts to illegal tyranny and the trampling of citizens Constitutionally-protected rights under both the PA and US Constitutions) fit the description of "legal" and "proper" (i.e., "by the book"), which simply is not the case.

 

[WyomingLion]

Funny thing is how far some decide to go with their motives. People freely toss some bad tag lines around here all of the time. Nobody is opposed to fixing any agency or system, but sounds great saying something so stupid I guess. It's fine HERE to attack Jerry's victims, all of the CPS/CYS services, investigators, prosecutors, BUT DON'T YOU DARE SAY A WORD ABOUT THAT MONSTER JERRY and his "unfair" trial!! He was railroaded by the system and his lying victims are all evil lying POS!!!

So you were saying,,,, something about the cause, motives, or something? So now the viewpoint is if you don't give a shit about Jerry ever seeing the light of day, you are against progress with state run agencies or the judicial system. I love the logic used to justify this crap on this site only. Well played, well played. I hate reform and justice, guilty as charged!!!!

I did not accuse you of anything you seem to be suggesting. It is just difficult for me to understand how one can support a fair judicial system but only in selective cases. I believe for fairness you must require fairness regardless of personal bias toward any accused person. I understand how difficult this is at times but if you pardon corruption once........ As for your well played comment, you are again assuming a motive not intended in my statement. This is not a good look for you or does it represent you well.

 

[rmb297]

Perhaps because you continue to act like the PA SWIGJ Code and the "extraordinary" powers and authority it grants were not INTENTIONALLY ABUSED by the OAG's Office under both Corbutt, and his personally hand-selected lame-duck AG, Kelly, once he became Governor (i.e., prosecutorial and judicial misconduct which amounts to illegal tyranny and the trampling of citizens Constitutionally-protected rights under both the PA and US Constitutions) fit the description of "legal" and "proper" (i.e., "by the book"), which simply is not the case.

Obviously, your reading comprehension skills are nil. I clearly made the case that the grand jury was abused.

As I wrote this moments ago...
5. The case was dead until Corbett got mad at Spanier -- at that point the grand jury was misused to go after PSU administrators. However, the case needed a deflection point away from TSM -- and that's how Mike got used. His benign report in 2001 was turned into a rape.

BYE.

 

[didier]

3. The AF case wasn't completely mishandled. They got it right. 1998 was completely mishandled because not only did they get it wrong, but Centre County CYS didn't recuse itself. The reason for a conflict of interest recusal is obviously because of the perceived bias in favor of the suspect. No such bias existed in Clinton County CYS (but did at CMHS, Centre County CYS, and Harrisburg DPW).
.

Who at Centre CYS was involved in failing to recuse the organization? The director or someone under him?

 

[Stufftodo]

Obviously, your reading comprehension skills are nil. I clearly made the case that the grand jury was abused.

As I wrote this moments ago...
5. The case was dead until Corbett got mad at Spanier -- at that point the grand jury was misused to go after PSU administrators. However, the case needed a deflection point away from TSM -- and that's how Mike got used. His benign report in 2001 was turned into a rape.

BYE.

I think on this point you are wrong. They didn't get any additional victims until they received that tip.

I also think that you have to ask an additional question. Why wasn't either victim in 1998 ever interviewed by anyone in the DA's Office?

As a corollary to that question, why in all of those e-mails from 1998, why isn't Schultz concerned about Sandusky being prosecuted criminally? Schultz obviously knew that he could be, and from a PR standpoint, Sandusky being prosecuted is going to be far more damaging to Penn State than an agency saying that, maybe, Sandusky abused children, a report that would not be public.

 

[indynittany]

Short version:
1. Sandusky wasn't supposed to be prosecuted because of the ties between Harrisburg and TSM.
2. Corbett had a vendetta against Spanier. Once elected, he set the ball in motion. Also, because of his election he became an ex officio Trustee -- enter John Surma.
3. Surma wanted rid of Paterno. Deal was cut. PSU completely scapegoated and TSM protected (thanks, Ira Lubert).
4. BOT members believed that if they "saved" football (pacifying the PSU football culture) and quickly settled with the victims this would all be in the rear view mirror by 2014.

I appreciate the response, Ray. But that was then. This is now. Corbett and his minions are gone. Surma is gone. Peetz is gone. Anyone left that matters should know the Freeh narrative was crap. Cough...Barron!!! The alumni are hopelessly fractured.

In other words, people with no connection to the lie are still protecting it. Why?

Secondarily, in your travels, have you found any paths that lead to the Hershey Foundation, the OAG and pedophilia? $7 billion and a medical school is a motive that I can understand!

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Obviously, your reading comprehension skills are nil. I clearly made the case that the grand jury was abused.

As I wrote this moments ago...
5. The case was dead until Corbett got mad at Spanier -- at that point the grand jury was misused to go after PSU administrators. However, the case needed a deflection point away from TSM -- and that's how Mike got used. His benign report in 2001 was turned into a rape.

BYE.

Oh, I don't know, initiating a SWIGJ Application to investigate a children's charity (and it's Founder) for suspected fraudulent activities (including raping participants) when you ALREADY HAVE THE POWER to investigate said suspected fraudulent charity as an enumerated power and obligation of your office - i.e., the PA OAG (and you haven't even engaged the OAG's "Child Predators Special Investigative Task Force), seems like a bit of an "abuse" of the SWIGJ Law and Process from the get go if you ask me (especially if he had no intention of fulfilling his fundamental obligation of investigating the fraudulent charity from the get go as you claim).

 

[sarasotan]

In other words, people with no connection to the lie are still protecting it. Why?

Ira and several Emeritus Trustees are connected to The Lie. A few others sold their souls for a seat.

 

[rmb297]

Ira and several Emeritus Trustees are connected to The Lie. A few others sold their souls for a seat.

There you go Indy.

 

[rmb297]

Oh, I don't know, initiating a SWIGJ Application to investigate a children's charity (and it's Founder) for suspected fraudulent activities (including raping participants) when you ALREADY HAVE THE POWER to investigate said suspected fraudulent charity as an enumerated power and obligation of your office - i.e., the PA OAG (and you haven't even engaged the OAG's "Child Predators Special Investigative Task Force), seems like a bit of an "abuse" of the SWIGJ Law and Process from the get go if you ask me (especially if he had no intention of fulfilling his fundamental obligation of investigating the fraudulent charity from the get go as you claim).

Investigations into charities fraud is handled by the Bureau of Consumer Protection, not the Criminal Prosecutions Division. The former acts on complaints filed by consumers.

Obviously, not the case when AF complained.

 

[rmb297]

I think on this point you are wrong. They didn't get any additional victims until they received that tip.

I also think that you have to ask an additional question. Why wasn't either victim in 1998 ever interviewed by anyone in the DA's Office?

As a corollary to that question, why in all of those e-mails from 1998, why isn't Schultz concerned about Sandusky being prosecuted criminally? Schultz obviously knew that he could be, and from a PR standpoint, Sandusky being prosecuted is going to be far more damaging to Penn State than an agency saying that, maybe, Sandusky abused children, a report that would not be public.

No additional victims were "identified" because they weren't trying to find them. BTW, they could have considered F.P. and F.A. victims because they prosecuted Sandusky for similar actsagainst against V6 and V7.

The reason multi-disciplinary teams are supposed to conduct the investigation is, for one, to limit the number of times a child victim has to discuss the crimes. Where possible, PA uses CACs to do this now.

You'd have to ask Schultz the last question. However, according to the AG's Conspiracy of Silence fictional account, Harmon "understood Gary Schultz to be relieved by this decision." Re: no charges filed in 1998.

Not that I believe that Harmon actually remembers anything except what the AG told him to remember.

 

[rmb297]

Who at Centre CYS was involved in failing to recuse the organization? The director or someone under him?

It's pretty obvious they didn't know they were supposed to recuse themselves. Miller got the complaint from Schreffler and checked back with someone there (assumption being a supervisor) and then got assigned to the case.

After hearing about the possible signs of abuse on May 4th, Miller and CYS had a meeting the next day to decide what to do. It was at that points someone decided to call the Regional office.

However, the evidence shows CYS was still involved as late as May 27th.

 

[didier]

It's pretty obvious they didn't know they were supposed to recuse themselves. Miller got the complaint from Schreffler and checked back with someone there (assumption being a supervisor) and then got assigned to the case.

After hearing about the possible signs of abuse on May 4th, Miller and CYS had a meeting the next day to decide what to do. It was at that points someone decided to call the Regional office.

However, the evidence shows CYS was still involved as late as May 27th.

So they appear to know they are handing it over to DPW on May 5 but are still "involved" as late as May 27. Why?

And why after Schreffler relays his talk with Chambers to Miller about V6 not wanting to get Jerry in trouble and not wanting Miller to tell Jerry what he reported...does Miller proceed to do exactly that in his interview? In fact Miller specifically says " look now...we don't want to get anyone in trouble that doesn't deserve to" and "well its kind of important" when V6 asks if he's going to tell Jerry that V6 spoke to the authorities.

I've shown that interview to people trained in child complaints and they are appalled. Who is John Miller and what connection does he have to Jerry Sandusky?

 

[rmb297]

So they appear to know they are handing it over to DPW on May 5 but are still "involved" as late as May 27. Why?

And why after Schreffler relays his talk with Chambers to Miller about V6 not wanting to get Jerry in trouble and not wanting Miller to tell Jerry what he reported...does Miller proceed to do exactly that in his interview? In fact Miller specifically says " look now...we don't want to get anyone in trouble that doesn't deserve to" and "well its kind of important" when V6 asks if he's going to tell Jerry.

I've shown that interview to people trained in child complaints and they are appalled. Who is John Miller and what connection does he have to Jerry Sandusky?

Specifically, on May 27 it was to prevent Schreffler from interviewing Jerry without someone from DPW present. That was the correct procedure -- but the question remains why were they still involved?

Miller. According to a mother I spoke with whose daughter was taken away and put in foster care -- Miller is a "horrible man." Obviously, she has a bias because of what happened, but by and large, the actions of CYS in 1998 were to make sure Sandusky's "charitable work" wasn't put to a stop.

 

[didier]

Specifically, on May 27 it was to prevent Schreffler from interviewing Jerry without someone from DPW present. That was the correct procedure -- but the question remains why were they still involved?

Miller. According to a mother I spoke with whose daughter was taken away and put in foster care -- Miller is a "horrible man." Obviously, she has a bias because of what happened, but by and large, the actions of CYS in 1998 were to make sure Sandusky's "charitable work" wasn't put to a stop.

Interesting what you have heard about Miller. As you point out the people being ruled against often have negative things to say about CYS workers ( I'm sure it's often a thankless job) so it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, is it just a sad juxtaposition that Schreffler contacted him or do you think he was put on the case once they heard it involved Sandusky?

Have you heard anything about the director Terry Watson. Fwiw I've heard good things about him but I haven't spoken to many people.

 

[bjf1991]

I appreciate the response, Ray. But that was then. This is now. Corbett and his minions are gone. Surma is gone. Peetz is gone. Anyone left that matters should know the Freeh narrative was crap. Cough...Barron!!! The alumni are hopelessly fractured.

In other words, people with no connection to the lie are still protecting it. Why?!

With all that has transpired since Nov 2011, CERTAINLY not all of those actions were the result of a single motivation (or a single "lie", to use your term)

I think that it is overwhelmingly clear what one of those motivations is (reference Rodney Erickson and Keith Massers depositions)

But any attempt to tie everything that has transpired to ONE single motivation (Corbett's Hard On for Spanier, Surma's Hard On for Paterno, some type of malfeasance at 2nd Mile, etc etc ) is - IMO - silly........ And counter-productive
(Thus, just ONE of the reasons that the A9's solely being willing, or even concerned, with ONE issue is so damaging)

What we have seen transpire since November 2011 (and the years before that) is - without question, IMO - the result of SEVERAL motivations......... That have created a confluence of numerous shitstorms

Right now - what is the most important driver of the ongoing shit storm? IMO, more than anything else, the gigantic piles of $$$$$ (and the related power) available through PSU. That most certainly is one of the major drivers - at the least (again, reference Rodney's and Masser's depos)

 

[sarasotan]

If I recall correctly, the most important driver is their personal liability. TSM's insurance was not as robust as PSU's. Or at least so they thought.

 

[bjf1991]

If I recall correctly, the most important driver is their personal liability. TSM's insurance was not as robust as PSU's. Or at least so they thought.

I would not be surprised if that is part of the goulash of motivators - in fact, I expect it was

 

[L.T. Young]

At the end of the day, Penn State authored the narrative we're all arguing about. I want to know why. Paterno's legacy and the reputation of the football program was worth an almost incalculable amount of money and good will in perpetuity. It's not just that the BOT didn't put up a fight or call for due process, but they led the effort! Why? What was their motive?

It's pretty simple, blaming football culture spares everyone not connected directly to it.

Think of it like quarantining an illness. Cut off the "infected" area and it dies quickly with no further damage.

That was the idea. TSM and BOT had connections to people who didn't want to be linked to CSA in any way. Whether or not there are more nefarious motives is somewhat immaterial. Keeping the scandal contained to a select few was it's purpose regardless.

The fact it was incredibly salacious with so few involved was just a bonus. It's something people would happily run with and not question.