ADVERTISEMENT

Recalibrating expectations

tboyer

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2002
10,054
7,382
1
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.
 
We've all got complaints about our teams, it's early, but Penn State is the best team in the B1G right now and it's not close.
 
Exactly, this is essentially the same team that if we had lost to Minnesota last year, might have finished 7-6. Yes, lots of players might be a little better and special teams certainly is, but for the most part, they are the same players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU&Trout
Nope. They played passably against an above average P5 team in the second week of the season. I think they were challenged in a pseudo-rivalry but they jumped ahead early and didn't let go of the lead. They played like a great team having an OK game. I mean FFS Clemson lost to them last year then won the national championship. The defense looked dominant at times except against the run... this is a team who can score early and a defense that can hold an opponent when the offense sputters.

Keep calm and Beat GA State!
 
We've all got complaints about our teams, it's early, but Penn State is the best team in the B1G right now and it's not close.

Well let's not beat our chests too much. That might only be a comment on how the Big Ten is down this year..

PSU was played toe to toe, and beaten badly at the LOS, by a mid-level ACC team. The PSU O-line we're so excited about was outplayed pretty badly by a bunch of no-name 3 star players on the PItt front four.

There is a lot to be really concerned about as we head into the meat of the schedule. It looked to me after the game that Franklin was quite worried.

They got some answers about how good the team is -- but they weren't the right answers.
 
Well let's not beat our chests too much. That might only be a comment on how the Big Ten is down this year..

PSU was played toe to toe, and beaten badly at the LOS, by a mid-level ACC team. The PSU O-line we're so excited about was outplayed pretty badly by a bunch of no-name 3 star players on the PItt front four.

There is a lot to be really concerned about as we head into the meat of the schedule. It looked to me after the game that Franklin was quite worried.

They got some answers about how good the team is -- but they weren't the right answers.
Last year Clemson:
Lost to Pitt
Beat Troy 31-24 (boy, Troy beat them around and exposed them)
Beat NC State 24-17 in OT

Bama:
Beat WKU 38-10
Beat Ole Miss 43-40
Beat Kentucky 34-6

Every team, even championship caliber teams, have less than stellar performances.
 
Step back and judge our trajectory. You're too deep in your excitement and expectations to realize we are doing MUCH better than last year despite losing an extraordinarily talented WR and having a young, untested DL. they can settle in against GA Tech and fix some things... in two weeks the real test begins vs Iowa.
 
You're underselling Pitt. They have good players and coaches too. I think the difference this year is Penn State fans have higher expectations and are judging the team from that perspective. Meanwhile it was only week 2. Remember where Penn State was last year at this time.

Didn't mean to undersell Pitt. That is a really well coached team. I'm just impressed to death that with all their graduation losses, plus all the suspensions, that the Pitt coaches had them ready to play like that.

Hat's off to Narducci. The way they played, the way they conducted themselves in the game, Narducci's postgame comments - all first class.

However I think this game serves fair warning that PSU is vulnerable to teams that are strong along the line of scrimmage and play disciplined defense.

And there just happens to be one of those teams on the schedule in two weeks.
 
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.
I knew that the defense had some weak spots but I expected the OL to be vastly improved. They sure didn't show it yesterday.

That said, every BiG team has shown weaknesses. UM's DL looks awesome but their offense isn't impressive. O$U's defense looks good but their offense looks similar to last year. Iowa shut down Iowa State's run game but struggled to defend the pass. Northwestern got crushed by Duke. PSU has as good of shot as anybody.
 
Well let's not beat our chests too much. That might only be a comment on how the Big Ten is down this year..

PSU was played toe to toe, and beaten badly at the LOS, by a mid-level ACC team. The PSU O-line we're so excited about was outplayed pretty badly by a bunch of no-name 3 star players on the PItt front four.

There is a lot to be really concerned about as we head into the meat of the schedule. It looked to me after the game that Franklin was quite worried.

They got some answers about how good the team is -- but they weren't the right answers.
They played 7-9 men near the LOS so it was not just the 4 DL. They crowded the box and blitzed often.
 
Very good point. The distance between a Top 5 team and a top 30-40 team, in players and coaching quality, has never been less.

However it would be interesting to go back and look at those Clemson and Bama games and see if they were outgained and lost the TOP by nearly a 2-1 margin. I wasn't expecting a total blowout of PItt like a lot of people, but I was expecting PSU to be significantly better on the LOS. But what I saw was the opposite. Some very big players for PSU were getting pushed around quite a bit.

Last year Clemson:
Lost to Pitt
Beat Troy 31-24 (boy, Troy beat them around and exposed them)
Beat NC State 24-17 in OT

Bama:
Beat WKU 38-10
Beat Ole Miss 43-40
Beat Kentucky 34-6

Every team, even championship caliber teams, have less than stellar performances.
 
Very good point. The distance between a Top 5 team and a top 30-40 team, in players and coaching quality, has never been less.

However it would be interesting to go back and look at those Clemson and Bama games and see if they were outgained and lost the TOP by nearly a 2-1 margin. I wasn't expecting a total blowout of PItt like a lot of people, but I was expecting PSU to be significantly better on the LOS. But what I saw was the opposite. Some very big players for PSU were getting pushed around quite a bit.
Troy 386 yards of offense
Time of possession- Troy 33:20 and Clemson 26:40
NC State stats were similar and NC State had more time of possession.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU-PITT/NY
Guys we won by 19. Pitt played keep away and were never a threat to win this game. Hell the style of play Pitt played with they just wanted to keep it respectable, and weren't even trying to "win". Even down 22 in the fourth quarter on the drive they scored a TD, their passing game consisted of shovel passes. They wanted to just get first downs and keep the clock turning all game. They barely tried to stretch the field, and really couldn't. Trace was admittedly off moreso than we've seen in a long time, but still managed to win by three touchdowns in a game that was never less than a two score game. I think Pry/Franklin were more than happy to let Pitt chew clock and not get behind them with a big passing play or a jet sweep. In retrospect I'm sure they would have done some things differently on offense, (Barkley 5 first half carries, the WRs that were a big mismatch for Pitt were a non factor) but we were never threatened to lose that game.
 
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.
They were a playoff caliber team last year.

One "off" game against one of the strangest offensive game plans I have ever seen, and you are "recalibrating".

Are you also "recalibrating" your beloved NW at Evanston juggernaut after their performance against Duke?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ski
McSorley wasn't as accurate as he usually is, but he was under more pressure than he usually is.

You had to expect that opposing defense would scheme to prevent Trace from scrambling and stepping up in the pocket like he did so successfully last year.

Well Narduzzi managed this very successfully. They did a great job creating pressure up the middle, slanting their DTs so that even if they couldn't get to Trace, they prevented him from getting a lane to step up. Likewise their ends played positionally very sound and didn't let Trace have room to run to his right.

This is how I'd scheme to defend PSU. Run blitz a lot to -- if you can't contain Barkley every play, at least you can get some TFLs that put PSU in 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs which sort of takes Barkley out of the game. And then on passing situations, you have your front four rush in a way that contains McSorley, you bring pressure from LBers or safeties, and you work on batting down balls.

It still leaves some things uncovered -- like throwing to Barkley out of the backfield.

But we should expect - this is how defense are going to look from now till the end of the season. Opposing DCs have made their adjustment and now it will be up to Moorhead to make his adjustment to the adjustments.

What worked last year for the PSU offense is not going to work in many cases this year. That is the magic of college football.
 
So PSU is now supposed to be scared to death of Iowa? Based on the Hawkeyes' OT win over Big 12 powerhouse Iowa State? Or maybe the Iowa-ISU game is a "rivalry game between 2 in-state schools" and, thus, must be judged differently.

Yes, our OL gave up 1 whole sack. The horror! And Pitt gained about 30 or so more yards than PSU did and had a huge TOP advantage.

So when did scoring points no longer matter?

Pitt played a solid game and Penn State didn't rout them 48-14. Going in, the #1 worry I read was Pitt's #10 returning punts and kicks. Seems as if the Lions stopped that, except for that 1 punt where a blocker was late getting on the field and seemed to disrupt the flow.

Valid points have been made that the PSU OL still can't seem to open up a hole for a simple 4-yard run on 3rd-and-2. I still can't stand that weakness. But it could also be an aspect of the RPO offense with the QB never under center. The OL seemed to be a little bit of a help on Saquon's impressive rushing TD from about the 8.

I'll take a solid W over Pitt. The Panthers have a solid team with some NFL-caliber talent. It is easy to say they are a bad team, but reality doesn't agree. They didn't beat Clemson and PSU a year ago in torrential rains with the help of 7 turnovers. And 3 of those same 5 OL returned this year. Pitt was a good test of where Penn State is this season, and it appears the Lions are vastly better in Special Teams, DL depth, and the secondary.

Let's see how things develop before we panic having to go to Iowa City.
 
Are you also "recalibrating" your beloved NW at Evanston juggernaut after their performance against Duke?

Oh I am very happy about that game, not that you want to see a B10 team skunked like that, but clearly NW does not have what a lot of people thought they had. They've been bad two straight weeks.

I was just looking at that game, and Duke basically stopped them by loading the LOS and stopping Justin Jackson.

NW has OL problems (which was hinted at in the preseason press). But just as big a factor is NW doesn't really have great wideouts this year.

Thorson is OK, but really not great if he doesn't have a pocket. He's mobile for a big guy but that means not very mobile. If he doesn't have protection he can't extend plays like a McSorley.

So right now NW is really vulnerable to anybody who just deploys the resources to stop Justin Jackson.

And BTW the NW secondary is pretty bad even though there are some highly touted recruits.

All this could change of course, and they could be tough by the time PSU goes to Evanston. But they were really exposed yesterday.

A really key play in that game was a classic Pat Fitz cheap shot that backfired. Duke was driving, a Duke receiver was trying to catch the ball at the NW 3 and the NW safety McGee put his helmet hard right into the receiver's facemask.

I presume it was a B1G crew but they did the right thing -- they ejected McGee and reversed an INT on the play.

I know some people don't like the targeting rule but one nice benefit is that it punishes the coaching staffs (NW and Wisconsin) who have historically coached players to play dirty. You can't get away with this stuff like before.
 
They were a playoff caliber team last year.

One "off" game against one of the strangest offensive game plans I have ever seen, and you are "recalibrating".

Are you also "recalibrating" your beloved NW at Evanston juggernaut after their performance against Duke?

Iowa also plays "stout" defense according to Eeyore. They gave up 41 points yesterday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NJPSU and nittnee
Nothing that has gone on so far has lessened my expectations for PSU this season -- if anything, I am more optimistic than in the pre-season given how both our team and our opponents have looked to date. The fact that we had an off game in a number of aspects against Pitt and still easily put them away is a great sign as to how deep and talented and well coached our team is this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nittnee and LionJim
Didn't mean to undersell Pitt. That is a really well coached team. I'm just impressed to death that with all their graduation losses, plus all the suspensions, that the Pitt coaches had them ready to play like that.

Hat's off to Narducci. The way they played, the way they conducted themselves in the game, Narducci's postgame comments - all first class.

However I think this game serves fair warning that PSU is vulnerable to teams that are strong along the line of scrimmage and play disciplined defense.

And there just happens to be one of those teams on the schedule in two weeks.
Is that the team that allowed powerhouse Iowa State to put up 41 points yesterday?
 
Pitt is a decent program and are good enough to win the acc coastal division and make it to the acc championship game this year. They are well coached and they always have good players that perform very well at the next level. The bad thing about Pitt is their fan base and the fact they are in the same state as penn state who is unquestionably PA's top dog. They typically play every opponent tough so this was a good win for us because it showed we could win against a tough agressive team. Don't be surprised if Pitt knocks off Oklahoma state next week.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU-PITT/NY
Going back to 2008, I only count 11 games pitt has lost by more than 20 points,
Including bowl games.

Bottom line - they don't get blown out a lot and they play a decent schedule, so a 19 point win when we were not playing the best ball says a lot.
 
Is that the team that allowed powerhouse Iowa State to put up 41 points yesterday?

Iowa State is actually a good program. They usually give Iowa a tough game so that was no surprise (well I guess the surprise was that Iowa could put up enough points to win).

I'm not trying to over or under sell Iowa.

But one thing Iowa is highly likely to have one thing in two weeks. Kirk Ferentz has been minting NFL O-linemen for 25 years. They're going to have an OL probably quite a bit better than Pitt's. Maybe easier to defend because they don't do all the stuff PItt does with formation and misdirection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU-PITT/NY
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.
Woe is me!! Just have fun!
 
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.

Our D played OK. What Pitt did was cross buck several players at once. Their backfield looked like Austin TX at rush hour. They'd bring a slot in motion and snap it so the QB could hand it to the slot as a jet sweep, he could hand it to the RB in a RPO, he could QB draw, or he could shovel pass it. Blocking wise, they often pulled different OL and attacked at different places. That put a lot of pressure on the interior of the D and our LBers. Often, our LB were bailing out to the left or right to stop the jet sweep only to leave the position open for a shovel pass. it was a really good scheme.
 
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.

Disagree on the Iowa Offensive line being better than the Pitt O line. Pitt has three O linemen who are playing on Sunday next year. Iowa, MAYBE 2.
 
Watching Pitt win the trenches yesterday, and then seeing what Oklahoma did to Ohio State..... I think we're going to have to recalibrate expectations a bit for this PSU team.

The OL and DL are improved from last year but clearly have a long way to go before you could call PSU a playoff caliber team. Of course the positive side of it is they're young and they will improve as the season progresses.

For me it was a shock that the Pitt front four handled PSU offensive line so well. If you can't make holes for your running back AND you can't protect your QB AND you can't make lanes for your QB to step up and throw the ball, you can't really run the PSU offense.

That was really the story of the game. PSU is still, like last year, not able to sustain drives, but without Godwin they don't have the quick strike potential they had last year.

Really PSU has quite a bit of work to do the next two weeks before they go to Kinnick.

The Iowa O-line will be better than the Pitt O-line and their D-line could be a LOT tougher than the PItt D-line. So PSU has got to get better line play AND better production from the wideouts.
We are in good shape in my opinion. We know what needs to be worked on, and have 2 weeks to do it. We also have 2 weeks to get health again. We now have a pretty good idea how teams will be attacking us, and hopefully we can come up w/ a counterpunch. I believe the hand off to SaSa needs to be a decoy, punishing defenses with other options until they move people out of the box.

We need tOSU, scUM, Mich St, to keep winning. Until we get them.

This is going to be fun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tboyer
Our D played OK. What Pitt did was cross buck several players at once. Their backfield looked like Austin TX at rush hour. They'd bring a slot in motion and snap it so the QB could hand it to the slot as a jet sweep, he could hand it to the RB in a RPO, he could QB draw, or he could shovel pass it. Blocking wise, they often pulled different OL and attacked at different places. That put a lot of pressure on the interior of the D and our LBers. Often, our LB were bailing out to the left or right to stop the jet sweep only to leave the position open for a shovel pass. it was a really good scheme.

Yeah, it's unusual and very effective. Fortunately PSU will not see anything like it the rest of the year. I think I read that Matt Canada, who designed it, is now the highest paid OC in the NFL.

Some of PSU's problems on D were just youth and over-aggressiveness. They all want to make plays and flow to the ball but sometimes against an O like that positional soundness is more important.

That shovel pass play was something. How many times can you go back to the same play 5-6 times on a drive and the defense STILL can't figure it out. Hats of to the Pitt team for executing it. If it had been a closer game I suspect PSU would have called a timeout to try to come up with a scheme for it.
 
Disagree on the Iowa Offensive line being better than the Pitt O line. Pitt has three O linemen who are playing on Sunday next year. Iowa, MAYBE 2.

...basing this on last year? Iowa line was young last year. This is the year they make the step up. But yeah, Pitt was sure tough inside. Their guards were beasts.
 
We are in good shape in my opinion. We know what needs to be worked on, and have 2 weeks to do it. We also have 2 weeks to get health again. We now have a pretty good idea how teams will be attacking us, and hopefully we can come up w/ a counterpunch. I believe the hand off to SaSa needs to be a decoy, punishing defenses with other options until they move people out of the box.

We need tOSU, scUM, Mich St, to keep winning. Until we get them.

This is going to be fun.

I agree. This is why it is so important to have meaningful opponents in the preconference schedule. This was what they need to get better.

Worst thing is to go 4-5 games without a physical opponent and then all of a sudden run into something like Iowa or Michigan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bardo
Yeah, it's unusual and very effective. Fortunately PSU will not see anything like it the rest of the year. I think I read that Matt Canada, who designed it, is now the highest paid OC in the NFL.

Some of PSU's problems on D were just youth and over-aggressiveness. They all want to make plays and flow to the ball but sometimes against an O like that positional soundness is more important.

That shovel pass play was something. How many times can you go back to the same play 5-6 times on a drive and the defense STILL can't figure it out. Hats of to the Pitt team for executing it. If it had been a closer game I suspect PSU would have called a timeout to try to come up with a scheme for it.
Agree...but on the shovel pass they ran it with different looks. So the a DT saw a guard pull the first time and thinks "ah ha, try that again!", and the next play they ran it with a tackle pulling. So to the line, it looked like a different play because of who engaged them. Great game planning and was very effective.
 
...basing this on last year? Iowa line was young last year. This is the year they make the step up. But yeah, Pitt was sure tough inside. Their guards were beasts.

I'm basing it on this year, not last year. Penn State's defensive line is better this year also, than it was last year. Iowa is better on the O line this year, than last year. Penn State is also better on the O line this year, than last year. I saw three NFL linemen, THIS YEAR, for Pitt and I can name them. Now, name me the THREE NFL linemen on that field yesterday for Iowa against Iowa State.
 
Credit to Pitt for actually executing the shovel pass the way they did. They only actually ran it incomplete one time, out of at least 8 or 9 times. I think they went 8 for 9 on shovel passes and 6 of those resulted in first downs. That is unbelievable execution.
 
They played 7-9 men near the LOS so it was not just the 4 DL. They crowded the box and blitzed often.
This is what I saw plus our wideout's often not getting separation, even when man - covered with only one deep safety. Sometimes all of the routes were taking too long for the amount of protection available. The defensive strategy by Pitt eventually got them killed on the Barkley fly route.
The problem with the RPO we use is that you really need a minimum amount of space at the exchange point to let it run effectively. Whether Pitt's DL and overall defensive strategy is that good, or our OL isn't that good, I'm not yet sure. Pitt did jam the box quite a lot, but our passing offense for the most part seemed unable to take advantage. Not something I would have expected with our QB and receiving corps.
 
I'm not "recalibrating" my expectations. Of course I'm not expecting a National Championship this year.
I feel really confident that Franklin/Moorhead weren't trying to embarrass Pitt. I believe Moorhead called a game to win without showing all the tools in the toolbox. Too reveal all the tools to embarrass an opponent would not be prudent for the remainder of the season.

Do not read too much into a "meager" 19 point win just because you expected and wanted a 50 point win. I believe our Staff has a much larger purpose in mind.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT