ADVERTISEMENT

Report: UNC Viewed as SEC, Big Ten's Most Attractive Expansion Target from ACC

Presidents rule. Ultimately it’s their decision. It’s more about federal research $$$ than anything else. B1G leads the nation in that all important category. Fox/ESPN can do what they want but the presidents decide and AAU rules!
Amen. As much as we might like it to be all about football it isn't. There are tradeoffs tough.

See OR to the Big 10 who failed on the 1st and 2nd votes then they made it on the 3rd vote with the eastern teams voting OR in. Horse trading was done between FOX and the presidents of the no votes. Remember that come ACC time as the bill to those presidents will come due. I think some fans will be disappointed to one degree or another.
 
To what heights has streaming risen in college football? Streaming to date in college football relative to being practical in holding together or significantly contributing to conference financial health or even being able to compete in media competition has been a failure and goes largely unviewed. Last time I checked streaming has lost billions. If cable were truly declining and streaming is truly rising the PAC would still be in business. The more people/technoids try to change things the more they stay the same. Cable isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future and the only people leaving cable are those millennials and even there that's in few numbers because most of them are still living at home or living communally while being tethered to their phones. Just kidding. The only people talking or trying to sell the cable is dying pitch are people trying to push streaming.
I do not know anyone still on cable. Even my elderly mother-in-law went to hulu live. Cable is dead.
 
I do not know anyone still on cable. Even my elderly mother-in-law went to hulu live. Cable is dead.
Then why hasn't ESPN and FOX dumped cable and gone all streaming which to see most things I would want to see on streaming I would have tp pay for it. Again, streaming is a Titanic setting voyage as they have lost Billions already. It just isn't sustainable yet.
 
Then why hasn't ESPN and FOX dumped cable and gone all streaming which to see most things I would want to see on streaming I would have tp pay for it. Again, streaming is a Titanic setting voyage as they have lost Billions already. It just isn't sustainable yet.
The live streaming services, Hulu Live, Fubo, Youtube tv, Sling, etc pay to carry networks just like cable, except in a more cost effective manner. I have done Hulu Live and Fubo. Both are really decent and cost far less than cable. Traditional cable is dead in the water.
 
Just based on potential eyeballs UNC, VA, and BC expand the viewership. Miami also brings in a major metro area. I understand the emotional aspect of Clemson and FSU wanting more money to maintain their brand. The reality is most of their TV viewership is based on the fickle bandwagon fans of a "national" brand. A few bad seasons and those eyeballs are on the next shining spinning thing. Clemson and FSU are both out of touch with their true market value.

The Big Ten brought in Maryland and Rutgers for only one reason, increased viewership coming from two of the nation's larger metro areas. It's not like they have been major sports powers (perhaps MD in basketball, but football brings in the $$$).
As someone else mentioned, this calculus is almost entirely irrelevant today. In the old TV model, adding Washington, DC and New York, meant millions of cable subscription fees. In the individual streaming market, few people in New York are watching Rutgers and they would never receive and invite today. Neither would MD. In the individual streaming World, all that matters is how many people watch a team and how much Amazon/netflix/ etc. will pay to broadcast. ND is THE white whale. BC and Rutgers are sardines. Miami is, well, you can read about them here.

 
Then why hasn't ESPN and FOX dumped cable and gone all streaming which to see most things I would want to see on streaming I would have tp pay for it. Again, streaming is a Titanic setting voyage as they have lost Billions already. It just isn't sustainable yet.
More people today have a Netflix subscription than have cable, but only by a few million. Cable still drives value, but it's less every year and will go away completely if the trend continues.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU4U
To what heights has streaming risen in college football? Streaming to date in college football relative to being practical in holding together or significantly contributing to conference financial health or even being able to compete in media competition has been a failure and goes largely unviewed. Last time I checked streaming has lost billions. If cable were truly declining and streaming is truly rising the PAC would still be in business. The more people/technoids try to change things the more they stay the same. Cable isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future and the only people leaving cable are those millennials and even there that's in few numbers because most of them are still living at home or living communally while being tethered to their phones. Just kidding. The only people talking or trying to sell the cable is dying pitch are people trying to push streaming.
That some streaming services are still operating at a loss is largely irrelevant. This is about contractual agreements. If Paramount + is in the red but signs a contract saying they will pay the Big 10 $X million over Y years to add certain teams or air a certain number of game, the conference now has a legally binding document to get paid. They don't care if Paramount is profitable or not as long as they get the money that was promised. If Paramout were to collapse the Big 10 would pursue legal action to collect and would shift to a different streamer in the next contract.

The Big 10 is dealing with the big dogs in FOX, Disney (ESPN) and CBS, not a small streamer like Paramount +, so the odds of these companies going under is pretty small. I'm not sure the Big 10 even cares if the games are streamed or broadcast on cable, they just want whichever nets them more money. How the games are delivered is probably largely up to these companies, provided they meet some minimum standards that the Big 10 would contractually insist upon. These companies are actually more likely to want to stream the games, they probably view sports as leverage to boost those struggling streaming services into the black financially and and accelerate the transition away from the decreasing and dying cable business.

Since streaming isn't tied to geographic areas like cable, the old priorities such as media markets and cable carriage fees and no longer matter. Ironically if Rutgers weren't in the Big 10 today, they probably wouldn't be of any interest under the current model as their location and media market was previously one of the biggest things working in their favor. They are very fortunate they joined when they did as now ratings and the power of one's "brand" are the most important factors.
 
That some streaming services are still operating at a loss is largely irrelevant. This is about contractual agreements. If Paramount + is in the red but signs a contract saying they will pay the Big 10 $X million over Y years to add certain teams or air a certain number of game, the conference now has a legally binding document to get paid. They don't care if Paramount is profitable or not as long as they get the money that was promised. If Paramout were to collapse the Big 10 would pursue legal action to collect and would shift to a different streamer in the next contract.

The Big 10 is dealing with the big dogs in FOX, Disney (ESPN) and CBS, not a small streamer like Paramount +, so the odds of these companies going under is pretty small. I'm not sure the Big 10 even cares if the games are streamed or broadcast on cable, they just want whichever nets them more money. How the games are delivered is probably largely up to these companies, provided they meet some minimum standards that the Big 10 would contractually insist upon. These companies are actually more likely to want to stream the games, they probably view sports as leverage to boost those struggling streaming services into the black financially and and accelerate the transition away from the decreasing and dying cable business.

Since streaming isn't tied to geographic areas like cable, the old priorities such as media markets and cable carriage fees and no longer matter. Ironically if Rutgers weren't in the Big 10 today, they probably wouldn't be of any interest under the current model as their location and media market was previously one of the biggest things working in their favor. They are very fortunate they joined when they did as now ratings and the power of one's "brand" are the most important factors.
And brand / tv viewership is exactly what dictated this latest round of expansion in the SEC and B1G. The list of most watched college football teams in 2023 can be used to predict who will be the next to jump into the P2 conferences - FSU / Clemson without a doubt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU4U
More people today have a Netflix subscription than have cable, but only by a few million. Cable still drives value, but it's less every year and will go away completely if the trend continues.
Net flix is a different animal nice for movies, I guess. Just watch what happens when you begin telling PS OSU MI AL and the like that they will be streamed and not on cable and be on Fri night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psu00
To what heights has streaming risen in college football? Streaming to date in college football relative to being practical in holding together or significantly contributing to conference financial health or even being able to compete in media competition has been a failure and goes largely unviewed. Last time I checked streaming has lost billions. If cable were truly declining and streaming is truly rising the PAC would still be in business. The more people/technoids try to change things the more they stay the same. Cable isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future and the only people leaving cable are those millennials and even there that's in few numbers because most of them are still living at home or living communally while being tethered to their phones. Just kidding. The only people talking or trying to sell the cable is dying pitch are people trying to push streaming.
Perhaps I didn't articulate my point very well.

The older cable model (based on metro areas) relied on sports channels being included either in lower end cable packages (e.g. every household's bill goes up by $2 per month to get the Big Ten network whether they want it or not) or as part of sports packages (e.g. I really only want the NHL network but have to also pay for the Big Ten network to get that). That still exists BUT (and I think this is true for many people under 50) you could also get the Big Ten Network without cable at all (via streaming) which is a pretty big deal.

So while there are people (including myself) who still primarily consume their sports via cable, those numbers are shrinking all the time making the raw viewership/fan numbers more important than the metro areas in which teams reside.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU4U and psu00
To what heights has streaming risen in college football? Streaming to date in college football relative to being practical in holding together or significantly contributing to conference financial health or even being able to compete in media competition has been a failure and goes largely unviewed. Last time I checked streaming has lost billions. If cable were truly declining and streaming is truly rising the PAC would still be in business. The more people/technoids try to change things the more they stay the same. Cable isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future and the only people leaving cable are those millennials and even there that's in few numbers because most of them are still living at home or living communally while being tethered to their phones. Just kidding. The only people talking or trying to sell the cable is dying pitch are people trying to push streaming.
It's unclear to me how you can say this. Take a look at the chart of annual cable subscribers at the link below. Cable has been declining since 2011 and falling off a cliff since 2018. Time will tell when the decline starts to slow, but I think it is going to increase because of demographics. We will continue to see the 18-64 demo shed users at 7%/yr and it will accelerate as the current 65 and up demos pass away at an accelerating rate. The future IS foreseeable and cable IS going away. The only think that could change this is if there is some unforeseen disruption technologically/economically/etc that changes consumer behavior.

Cable TV Subscribers Statistics by Age

As of 2022, in the United States the cable TV subscriber aged between:
  • 18 – 37 years = 46% have cable TV subscribers.
  • 37 – 48 years = 48%
  • 49 – 64 years = 55%
  • 65+ years = 81%
  • 68+ years = 63
-----------------------------------------------
 
Net flix is a different animal nice for movies, I guess. Just watch what happens when you begin telling PS OSU MI AL and the like that they will be streamed and not on cable and be on Fri night.
1. The B2G is already telling PS & OSU that they will be playing on friday night. How the game is delivered to consumers is irrelevant. $$ talks and as more people dump cable and move to streaming, the $$ will get bigger.
2. Saying that Netflix is "nice for movies" is very myopic. We've already seen some sporting events be streaming only. Peacock, Amazon and others have shelled out big $$ for exclusivity on a small scale. Youtube took NFL Sunday ticket from satellite to streaming. Now Netflix has inked a deal with the NFL for exclusivity on Xmas day games. This is only the beginning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU4U
Net flix is a different animal nice for movies, I guess. Just watch what happens when you begin telling PS OSU MI AL and the like that they will be streamed and not on cable and be on Fri night.
Do you really think these schools will care if Netflix pays them more money than cable? CFB is all about the almighty dollar anymore, everything else is secondary. That mindset is unfortunately eroding the sport we all loved not just because it was football, but because of the emotional attachment to universities we attended and geographic regions we have ties to. That part is going away, and it being replaced by programs and conferences simply chasing the biggest payday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PSU4U
Do you really think these schools will care if Netflix pays them more money than cable? CFB is all about the almighty dollar anymore, everything else is secondary. That mindset is unfortunately eroding the sport we all loved not just because it was football, but because of the emotional attachment to universities we attended and geographic regions we have ties to. That part is going away, and it being replaced by programs and conferences simply chasing the biggest payday.
I don't think the emotional attachment is changing--that's why they can put money first. The "geographic region" has always been overrated. I don't miss playing Pitt, Syracuse or WVU at all. In fact, I'd be thrilled if we never played them again--same with Temple. I'm thrilled to play teams like Oregon, Washington and USC on a semi-regular basis. I want "good games" not "regional matchups"
 
I don't think the emotional attachment is changing--that's why they can put money first. The "geographic region" has always been overrated. I don't miss playing Pitt, Syracuse or WVU at all. In fact, I'd be thrilled if we never played them again--same with Temple. I'm thrilled to play teams like Oregon, Washington and USC on a semi-regular basis. I want "good games" not "regional matchups"
It's fading, fast. CFB is going corporate. I don't miss games against some of those opponents either but I don't live locally. If I did, you can bet I'd miss hopping in the car to go to road games vs. having to fly to the west coast. The powers that be are killing the golden goose by deemphasizing everything that made college football different, and for CFB fans better, than the NFL. We don't want the NFL lite. But the NFL lite model pays better so that's where it's going. Until the fans stop supporting it, nothing will change.
 
It's fading, fast. CFB is going corporate. I don't miss games against some of those opponents either but I don't live locally. If I did, you can bet I'd miss hopping in the car to go to road games vs. having to fly to the west coast. The powers that be are killing the golden goose by deemphasizing everything that made college football different, and for CFB fans better, than the NFL. We don't want the NFL lite. But the NFL lite model pays better so that's where it's going. Until the fans stop supporting it, nothing will change.
The powers that be don't care about attendance. That's not where they make the most money. Stadiums will become smaller as younger generations don't want the live experience. That's who these changes target.

College football has been NFL "Lite" for my entire life. It's why the draft is so popular. People that are true fans of college football, not just their team, have always watched to see the find future NFL stars. Even here we talk about how players project to the next level because that's truly what matters and how you improve recruiting. See what Barkley did for us at the RB spot.

College football is far from dying. Ratings and TV contracts prove you wrong. You're essentially making the same dumb argument that want to be in the ACC make. It's not about you and what games you'll attend. Has never been about that. It's always been about money. Some just don't want to acknowledge that.

A 12 team playoff will destroy ratings from recent bowl games. Absolutely crush it. Paterno would be the first to say how long overdue this is.

You can complain all you want about NIL but if guys would have been correctly paid for the past 40 years we could have avoided this
 
It's fading, fast. CFB is going corporate. I don't miss games against some of those opponents either but I don't live locally. If I did, you can bet I'd miss hopping in the car to go to road games vs. having to fly to the west coast. The powers that be are killing the golden goose by deemphasizing everything that made college football different, and for CFB fans better, than the NFL. We don't want the NFL lite. But the NFL lite model pays better so that's where it's going. Until the fans stop supporting it, nothing will change.

Yep. By making college football more and more "NFL lite", they have been able to pick up tons of casual fans so ratings have increased. And it is easy for those "fans" to follow purely for the so-called "championship" as it is a more focused situation than just being a general college football fan and ignoring games that have no MNC impact.

The problem is that those fans are fickle and aren't particular loyal to the sport. They will just as quickly abandon it if it becomes boring or too convoluted. Or if it infringes too much on the NFL (or vice versa) which forces them to choose between the sports (and the NFL would win those viewers). In that process though, there's a real viable risk of losing the actual loyal dedicated fans, the people who spend money on the teams and pack the stadiums which provide the atmosphere that the casuals enjoy seeing. Once you go too far down the path of being, well, an NFL minor league you risk alienating the actual money and support for college football and we all know that no really gives a crap about minor league football (c.f. how XFL/USFL/UFL do in terms of ratings, nothing compared to college football).

If college football ever truly separates from being student athletes and having real connections to the schools, I fear it will be a sudden and dramatic fall from grace among the fans actually buoying the product. Supporters watch Penn State football because it is a team that is a part of Penn State University. I don't think the loyalty is there for a minor league football team that just happens to play at Penn State. But we'll see
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RickinDayton
More people today have a Netflix subscription than have cable, but only by a few million. Cable still drives value, but it's less every year and will go away completely if the trend continues.

Ok...please show the figures...

A) Netflix subscribers w/o cable = ??

B) Cable subscribers w/o Netflix = ??

C) Cable subscribers w/ Netflix= ??

There is no way A > B
 
Yep. By making college football more and more "NFL lite", they have been able to pick up tons of casual fans so ratings have increased. And it is easy for those "fans" to follow purely for the so-called "championship" as it is a more focused situation than just being a general college football fan and enjoying games that have no MNC impact.

The problem is that those fans are fickle and aren't particular loyal to the sport. They will just as quickly abandon it if it becomes boring or too convoluted. Or if it infringes too much on the NFL (or vice versa) which forces them to choose between the sports (and the NFL would win those viewers). In that process though, there's a real viable risk of losing the actual loyal dedicated fans, the people who spend money on the teams and pack the stadiums which provide the atmosphere that the casuals enjoy seeing. Once you go too far down the path of being, well, an NFL minor league you risk alienating the actual money and support for college football and we all know that no really gives a crap about minor league football (c.f. how XFL/USFL/UFL do in terms of ratings, nothing compared to college football).

If college football ever truly separates from being student athletes and having real connections to the schools, I fear it will be a sudden and dramatic fall from grace among the fans actually buoying the product. Supporters watch Penn State football because it is a team that is a part of Penn State University. I don't think the loyalty is there for a minor league football team that just happens to play at Penn State. But we'll see
I don't think any of this is true.
Those fans are loyal to gambling which makes them loyal to the sport. Gambling is growing fast with all the legal ways to do so from your phone and college football is one of the heaviest betting sports.
The comparison to minor league sports makes absolutely no sense--they struggle because they don't have fan bases. College sports will always have fan bases--always. How are you separating them from being students? Because they're paid?
You're not alone with this take but I feel like this is pure emotion over not liking the changes as opposed to dealing with the reality of things.
 
Do you really think these schools will care if Netflix pays them more money than cable? CFB is all about the almighty dollar anymore, everything else is secondary. That mindset is unfortunately eroding the sport we all loved not just because it was football, but because of the emotional attachment to universities we attended and geographic regions we have ties to. That part is going away, and it being replaced by programs and conferences simply chasing the biggest payday.
Exposure matters if people think streaming will ultimately be anything to anyone except bargain basement teams, I offer you the Old PAC and those teams when that was the offer. They are in the Big 12 now. People are not going to pay streaming to watch college football. Streaming is for nerds and they for the most part don't watch college football. They're too busy watching Big Bang reruns. ;)
 
1. The B2G is already telling PS & OSU that they will be playing on friday night. How the game is delivered to consumers is irrelevant. $$ talks and as more people dump cable and move to streaming, the $$ will get bigger.
2. Saying that Netflix is "nice for movies" is very myopic. We've already seen some sporting events be streaming only. Peacock, Amazon and others have shelled out big $$ for exclusivity on a small scale. Youtube took NFL Sunday ticket from satellite to streaming. Now Netflix has inked a deal with the NFL for exclusivity on Xmas day games. This is only the beginning.
The Big 2 also told the league they will not play a home game on Friday night. The agreed to play a Fri night game a year with one of the dregs of the league. I can assure you if the Big 10 or the SEC tell their best teams they will be playing 5-6 games a year on streaming there will be a super leagues formed but not the one they are currently talking about. Exposure matters and streaming will never bring that.
 
Perhaps I didn't articulate my point very well.

The older cable model (based on metro areas) relied on sports channels being included either in lower end cable packages (e.g. every household's bill goes up by $2 per month to get the Big Ten network whether they want it or not) or as part of sports packages (e.g. I really only want the NHL network but have to also pay for the Big Ten network to get that). That still exists BUT (and I think this is true for many people under 50) you could also get the Big Ten Network without cable at all (via streaming) which is a pretty big deal.

So while there are people (including myself) who still primarily consume their sports via cable, those numbers are shrinking all the time making the raw viewership/fan numbers more important than the metro areas in which teams reside.
Can anyone accurately say that the decline in college football viewership is due to streaming. Or is due to younger people simply not watching? All the articles I've read (and I don't anymore) have quoted broad numbers on streaming lumping most things together and not breaking it down. It's a nerdy thing to me. I won't say never but thankfully I'll be long dead before it happens.
 
Exposure matters if people think streaming will ultimately be anything to anyone except bargain basement teams, I offer you the Old PAC and those teams when that was the offer. They are in the Big 12 now. People are not going to pay streaming to watch college football. Streaming is for nerds and they for the most part don't watch college football. They're too busy watching Big Bang reruns. ;)

As I read your post, this .gif is what I thought of. Respectfully, streaming is not for "nerds" to watch The Big Bang Theory any more than cable was nerdy vs OTA broadcasts. Youtube having NFL Sunday ticket as a streamer, vs needing DirecTV satellite hardware is clearly an upgrade. Streaming is a superior experience and delivery mechanism vs cable for so many reasons. Cable is dying. It just isn't dead yet. Once wireless provides the speed and stability that exists today with the wired lines that provide cable TV/Internet, cable will be dead, if it hasn't collapsed already.

Grampa Simpson Meme GIF by MOODMAN
 
  • Haha
Reactions: PSU4U
Everyone is stuck on their phone. Can't peel away from it. Worse for the younger generations under 30. I say this as a point that 20-30 years from now cable probably will be dead or a small niche segment. A TV will just be there as a device to stream but I can see a lot of media usage just being on a phone or tablet and actual TV usage declining significantly.
 
As I read your post, this .gif is what I thought of. Respectfully, streaming is not for "nerds" to watch The Big Bang Theory any more than cable was nerdy vs OTA broadcasts. Youtube having NFL Sunday ticket as a streamer, vs needing DirecTV satellite hardware is clearly an upgrade. Streaming is a superior experience and delivery mechanism vs cable for so many reasons. Cable is dying. It just isn't dead yet. Once wireless provides the speed and stability that exists today with the wired lines that provide cable TV/Internet, cable will be dead, if it hasn't collapsed already.

Grampa Simpson Meme GIF by MOODMAN
We disagree but that's ok I take no umbrage from anyone's comments or stance on this subject or any other subject on the board. Where college football is concerned, I see streaming as folly and an eventual huge money loser for streaming companies. That infact has been the case to date to the tune of billions. Sooner or later that bill will come due.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT