Roster caps and Scholarship limits
- Thread starter backdrft76
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I don't think NW's oster cap (which I think is 25 - a friend's kid wrestles there) is really a factor. I think the bigger factor is NW and most other schools won't have budgets to increase wrestling scholarships at all. Nearly all Power 5 schools will increase football and basketball to the max before thinking about wrestling or other nonrevenue sports.
I think Penn State and a handful of others benefit from extra free rides. Many schools will stay the same or lose funding.
I'm all for scholarship money being split evenly. But, splitting the revenue share between male and female evenly is absurd.
Here's another consideration. Without adding any new scholarships Penn State will lose approximately $7M per year in Tuition and Fees from athlete's currently paying their own way. That's a lot of money, so how did I calculate?
I checked the roster size of 8 of our 29 teams and compared it to the new roster limits and found we will be losing on average 8 athlete's per team. Using in state of $20k and out of state of $40k I scanned the rosters and about 50% are in state so I picked $30k as the number for tuition and fees. Then, considering we have 29 sports the simple math comes to about $7M less in revenue.
Yes, some of these may attend anyway, but I wager very few and particularly the out the state students. If a high school athlete wants to continue in college they'll just drop to a levels until they find a roster spot.
No consideration for room and board is in the above calculation. Consider that every new scholarship will cost on average $30k in tuition and fees and this is a financial disaster for a any school currently losing money. Penn State is currently about $200M per year in the red.
I checked the roster size of 8 of our 29 teams and compared it to the new roster limits and found we will be losing on average 8 athlete's per team. Using in state of $20k and out of state of $40k I scanned the rosters and about 50% are in state so I picked $30k as the number for tuition and fees. Then, considering we have 29 sports the simple math comes to about $7M less in revenue.
Yes, some of these may attend anyway, but I wager very few and particularly the out the state students. If a high school athlete wants to continue in college they'll just drop to a levels until they find a roster spot.
No consideration for room and board is in the above calculation. Consider that every new scholarship will cost on average $30k in tuition and fees and this is a financial disaster for a any school currently losing money. Penn State is currently about $200M per year in the red.
Then take away the $22 million in revenue sharing thst will go to current athletes, add the 20 additional scholarships for football, and it's pretty clear that schools are going to have to cut nonrevwnue sports. This is simply a means of paying revenue athletes at the expense of the others. It will be a disaster for nonrevenue sports, particularly on the men's side.
That $22M is just the first year. It will go up every year. Our brainy acts in charge just approved a $700M renovation to renovate HALF of Beaver Stadium.
Almost all of it is per year. The 22 million. The extra football and basketball scholarships. This might provide a few extra scholarships at a few places, but it is going to cause tremendous pain for most.
So 900 athletes times $30k is $27m plus living expenses… they better take it out of TV money. Another ask of the fan base and community is not suggested. NIL is still in play and tuition continues to rise to cover PSUs bloated staff and educators.
I think they might be lumping other things in there, like travel expenses, etc.
So, Cael has been carrying 37 guys on the team since early in his tenure at PSU. I wonder which 7 of the team will be missing or will he get it all through graduation and not bring in new guys for a year or two?
Edit: I just checked and Iowa had 41 guys on the roster last year so they'll have to be down 11. Seems such a shame with that new large facility they just built.
Edit: I just checked and Iowa had 41 guys on the roster last year so they'll have to be down 11. Seems such a shame with that new large facility they just built.
Without windows, those 11 might be very thankful to be cut.
No, the expenses you cite are included under different categories in the report. Here's the language:
"Input the total dollar amount of athletic student-aid for the reporting year including:
• Summer school.
• Tuition discounts and waivers (unless it is a discount or waiver available to the general student body).
•Aid given to student-athletes who are inactive (medical reasons) or no longer eligible (exhausted eligibility).
• Other expenses related to attendance.
Note: Division I Grants-in-aid equivalencies are calculated by using the revenue distribution equivalencies by sport and in aggregate. (Athletic grant amount divided by the full grant amount). Other expenses related to attendance (also known as cost of attendance) should not be included in the grants-in-aid revenue distribution equivalencies. Only tuition, fees, room, board and course related books are countable for grants-in-aid revenue distribution per Bylaw 20.02.10. Athletics aid awarded to non-athletes (student-managers, graduate assistants, trainers) should be reported as Expenses Not Related to Specific Teams. It is permissible to report only dollars in the Expenses Not Related to Specific Teams row as long as you have reported non- zero entries for Equivalencies, Number of Students, and Dollars (all 3 required for at least one sport). Note: Pell grants are provided by the government, not the institution or athletics department, and therefore should be excluded from reporting in this category. Note: This information can be managed within the NCAA's Compliance Assistance (CA) software. The equivalencies entered into compliance assistance will automatically populate to the athletic student aid section within the NCAA Financial Reporting System when the CA import feature is selected."
That’s seems seriously inflated for tax purposes I’m sure. Sure it costs $65k a yr for those 370 scholarships….
Penn State's cost estimator says $62k for an out-of-state, full-time Kinesiology major living in State College year-round.
Add $11k for 6 credits in the summer. A lot of athletes take summer classes to lighten their in-aeason course loads.
Add more for other majors -- Engineering and Science have bigger lab fees, for example.
These numbers come down for PA residents -- who are a minority of PSU scholarship athletes.
But they will miss the tunnel, won’t they? I keep hearing that is a big draw!
So - Big 5 schools can OPT-IN for the new rule. Of course they will - $22M is a boatload of money
Who will benefit the most from the influx of cash? FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL! If football adds 20 male scholarships - women's programs will require a matching # of female scholarships OR men's sports will have cuts to meet the Title 9 requirements
I'm all for the NCAA dishing out the money to pay athletes likeness that brings in the TV deals. Is this all so the NCAA can stay relevant?
Who will benefit the most from the influx of cash? FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL! If football adds 20 male scholarships - women's programs will require a matching # of female scholarships OR men's sports will have cuts to meet the Title 9 requirements
I'm all for the NCAA dishing out the money to pay athletes likeness that brings in the TV deals. Is this all so the NCAA can stay relevant?
With the salaries the upper echelon of the NCAA employees make you can bet there will many moves attempting to keep the organization appearing to be relevant. Student athletes will most likely be sacrificed at the alter of the adult dollar.
My understanding is Power 5 schools are required to participate, while non-Power 5 schools can opt in. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the $22M is what P5 schools must share with players out of their athletic department revenues. This is not money that the NCAA is giving to the schools.
Not many non-P5 schools would have the revenue to make opting in worthwhile. I am not clear on this, but it is starting to sound as if non-P5 schools that do not opt in will not have to adhere to roster caps. Is anyone clear on this aspect?
An earlier rule change required any wrestler on scholarship to receive a minimum 2O% scholarship, no?
(20% minimum scholarship equivalency required for those first enrolling at a four-year institution on or after August 1, 2023).
Does this still apply?
Weird
Weird thing about college, decades after you leave they keep wanting money-even though they have their hands in the public treasury.
I bought my last GM about 25 years ago. A '98 Malibu, what an papa oscar sierra.
I will never buy another GM, nut even that zombie apocalypse doesn't try to hit me up for MOAR money.
Weird thing about college, decades after you leave they keep wanting money-even though they have their hands in the public treasury.
I bought my last GM about 25 years ago. A '98 Malibu, what an papa oscar sierra.
I will never buy another GM, nut even that zombie apocalypse doesn't try to hit me up for MOAR money.
They are bureaucrats.
From Bureaucracy by Mises: (1944)
The terms bureaucrat, bureaucratic, and bureaucracy are clearly invectives. Nobody calls himself a bureaucrat or his own methods of management bureaucratic. These words are always applied with an opprobrious connotation. They always imply a disparaging criticism of persons, institutions, or procedures. Nobody doubts that bureaucracy is thoroughly bad and that it should not exist in a perfect world.
The abusive implication of the terms in question is not limited to America and other democratic countries. It is a universal phenomenon.
kind of off topic: for the 30 wrestler cap. What will happen with the extra 10-12 wrestlers. Will they be cut or left go? Added to NLWC.
Just thought of this with psu having such a big roster this could get interesting. Who would be cut and how would the coaches decide.
Just thought of this with psu having such a big roster this could get interesting. Who would be cut and how would the coaches decide.
Good question, and adding to NLWC is an interesting idea.
The issues I see are:
(1) They'd have to train with no opportunity to compete except maybe as unrostered at some Opens, paying their own way. NLWC is not spending any money on former varsity backups, and they'd be ineligible for NIL since not on the varsity roster.
(2) It could be seen as a naked end run around the roster limit. PSU typically avoids such appearances.
(3) Insurance, liability, etc.?
So IMO it's unlikely, and if it does happen, it would be strictly temporary until the roster reaches 30 via graduation/attrition. Cael will not recruit extra HS kids and stuff them on the freestyle roster.
Also FYI it's more like 7 wrestlers -- the roster has typically been around 37.
I wish the NCAA would allow a 1-year grace period to get down to those limits. Immediate roster cuts seem unnecessary. Then again, NCAA.
Opprobrious. Now that is a word you rarely if ever see anymore. It is interesting how words come into and out of fashion or their original meaning gets replaced to where using the word in its original meaning is almost impossible. I was recently reading an older book on an archaeological excavation at Masada where they used the then current word for a bundle of sticks. That word meaning has sure changed!
I used to work for the now sold Prudential Retirement Services with an English woman who pretty much said what was on her mind and enjoyed interspersing her conversation with authentic English references, especially ones that might produce a grimace or nervous laughter (i.e, bangers instead of sausages).
Part of our job was to explain the byzantine and counterintuitive pension rules to customer contact staff. One day one of our CSR's approached and we a chat about a matter but with a little more friendliness than normal. After "Dee" left, Rosemary said "I know what you're thinking, but don't even think about going out with her", to which I said "sorry, but that train left about a year and a half ago". Her loud response "oh come on, you too? Is there a guy in the building she hasn't gone out with?"
Now relevant to your story the word for a bundle of sticks also means (meant) cigarette in England. Prudential's reaction to the prohibition on indoor smoking that was enacted in 1990ish was first to let the smokers go out, but when sick time went up, they built a green house looking shelter, which the employees either called "the butt hut" or the name of one of the Nazi death camps.
So just to get a rise out of people, she would announce that "I'm going to Au^***tz, to have a *fa*****".
Unfortunately, the habit killed her. I can't even imagine her acerbic wit surviving a day without a summons to the bureau of contrived and exaggerated indignities, "HR".
I am glad I'm getting close to pulling the pin. Where others show pictures of themself in a vanilla pose, my picture is me hanging out of a locomotive cab window. Instead of "pronouns", I quote Til Tuesday's "Voices Carry".
"...in the dark, I'd like to read his mind
But I'm frightened of the things I might find",
I have a niece in college; they can't even imagine the spirited rebelliousness of Tom Sawyer.
@Pitchfork Rebel Do you happen to work for the company that bought that division? In the WB area? I ask because I have a friend that made the change. I could be more specific but wanted to leave it to your discretion.
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It would be interesting to know if in fact the PSU team has upped their scholy limit from 9.9, and if so, to what? My understanding is this is optional and many schools will do nothing of the sort. Has there been any official comms on this front? I think 20 is a nice number, 2 deep at every weight.
PSU will increase scholarships when more scholarships are endowed.
it would have costed 2 billion or more for a new stadium. spending 700 to make it more functional is okay
Looking at the Iowa mens wrestling roster, they have 37 wrestlers listed, does that mean that they are redshirting at least 7 to get to the 30 person limit!
Redshirt = rostered. That doesn't provide relief from the cap.
No, I left Prudential in 1999 and over the years, most everybody I worked with either moved on or passed on. Sometime in the 2000's Pru merged with Principle and when I ran into somebody I knew I was told that "you should be glad you left when you did".
The last person that was I knew and was in contact with that was employed by Prudential when I was there was told by Empower that they could remain in permanent telecommute status or move to HQ in Colorado, but was let go last year.
If your friend was there during the time 1989 (the Moosic office opened October 1989) to 1999, might know him or her.
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Meanwhile, scholarships are being reported to being slashed at Wisconsin and Michigan State:
Corby on 34: "Wrestling won't be added at any power 5 schools anytime soon with revenue sharing happening. Some Big 10 schools will be cutting wrestling scholarships next year. Wisconsin and Michigan st will be at 5 from 9.9. Willie also said he's been told the same. If wrestling is added as a D1 sport it will be at smaller schools. Wrestling is in trouble as are many Olympic sports. Olympic sports will become club sports at many universities which will suck"
Corby on 34: "Wrestling won't be added at any power 5 schools anytime soon with revenue sharing happening. Some Big 10 schools will be cutting wrestling scholarships next year. Wisconsin and Michigan st will be at 5 from 9.9. Willie also said he's been told the same. If wrestling is added as a D1 sport it will be at smaller schools. Wrestling is in trouble as are many Olympic sports. Olympic sports will become club sports at many universities which will suck"
