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Scott says Superior court denied PSU & Pepper Hamiltons appeal

Be prepared for possible further appeal of the denial and barring a reversal, likely future requests by the defense to have the court limit the materials turned over to just what is relevant to the estate's lawsuit. What is deemed relevant material will undoubtedly will result in further protracted litigation which will further frustrate plaintiff' by adding even more time and costs to their litigatory efforts. In the end, defendants will ask for and likely be granted a protective order which will seal the information from the public domain.
CR66, Is that all you've got? Just "adding more time and costs to their ligitatory efforts?" If so, you'd be better off just hobnobbing at the club, trading investment war stories with the power elite, and vacationing on the French Riviera. Enjoy life. The world is your oyster.
 
Not sure about this. The old guard BOT have all been drinking from the same koolaid vat most of their lives. It is possible that they believed that Freeh was very credible. Not a stretch really, given that so many people of all stripes STILL go with the Freeh Report.

Heck, even many posters here thought there was a shot at getting to the truth when Freeh was hired.

You're both right.
 
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CR66, Is that all you've got? Just "adding more time and costs to their ligitatory efforts?" If so, you'd be better off just hobnobbing at the club, trading investment war stories with the power elite, and vacationing on the French Riviera. Enjoy life. The world is your oyster.

Not exactly hobnobbing, but it does have something to do with knobs;)...
 
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Not sure about this. The old guard BOT have all been drinking from the same koolaid vat most of their lives. It is possible that they believed that Freeh was very credible. Not a stretch really, given that so many people of all stripes STILL go with the Freeh Report.

Heck, even many posters here thought there was a shot at getting to the truth when Freeh was hired.
I admit to being someone who felt an "independent" Freeh inquiry would yield the truth but "independent" turned out to be something other than what I thought it was. And while it's certainly possible the BoT honestly believed Freeh was credible and would do a good job, when it became apparent Freeh was conferring with the NCAA and the Big Ten an incredulous BoT should have called all three entities on it. Instead, in a press conference Peetz accepted the Freeh report and took a shot at Joe while Frazier blamed the entire university. They sounded like people who had every intention of standing by Freeh even if he was proven to be a hack. To this day the BoT as a whole has not done anything to refute Freeh.
 
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Yawn. You haven't been correct yet, asshole, so I am glad this is your prediction.

I shouldn't call you asshole, because now I've got all of the assholes in America mad at me for associating you with them, but it still seems to fit. You are nothing more than a festering human hemorrhoid.

Funniest damn thing I've seen in a long time. Thanks!
 
Just a question for you folks following closer than me. A while back there was a robust discussion concerning the doctoring of a couple of select emails. If it turns out this is true, could they release that type of information as they sift through the document dump?
 
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Just a question for you folks following closer than me. A while back there was a robust discussion concerning the doctoring of a couple of select emails. If it turns out this is true, could they release that type of information as they sift through the document dump?

I personally wonder if among all those documents, they actually have the entire e-mail chains for the "suspicious" e-mails. Putting all the e-mails in context of the ongoing conversation would go a long way towards properly assessing their content.
 
I personally wonder if among all those documents, they actually have the entire e-mail chains for the "suspicious" e-mails. Putting all the e-mails in context of the ongoing conversation would go a long way towards properly assessing their content.
The Paterno suit is still under a gag order. They can't release anything until trial. Maybe they can release privately to the Attorney General if they find something patently illegal that necessitates a criminal investigation. But we won't see much.
 
As one BOT sock puppet to another, I must disagree. First, the attorney/client privilege argument's always been a loser. Not so sure about that. The engagement letter specifically states "FSS has been engaged to serve as independent external legal counsel to the Special Investigative Task Force .....". It also states "Although our services are limited at this time to the specific matters described herein, the general terms of this letter will apply to any other matters that FSS herein undertakes to handle for the trustees or the Special Investigative Task Force." Clearly this is prima-facie evidence that an attorney client relationship existed.
"How can an "independent investigator" also be your attorney? Aren't they mutually exclusive? Not necessarily. The courts are split on the matter with some ruling in favor of ACP and others against depending on the facts. In Sandra T.E. v. South Berwyn School District 100, 49 the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals was called upon to analyze this issue in the context of claims of sexual molestation against an elementary school teacher and his school district employer.50 Sidley Austin LLP was hired by the school board to conduct an investigation and to provide legal advice to the district.51 Sidley and the school board entered into a written retention agreement.52 The board sent a letter to all parents advising them of Sidley’s retention.53 Sidley interviewed both current and former employees of the district and some thirdparty witnesses.54 None of the interviews was recorded; the Sidley attorneys took notes during the interviews and later drafted memoranda summarizing them.55 Sidley provided the school board with a written executive summary as well as an oral report of the legal advice it was retained to provide.56 The victims and their families sued the school district in January 2005.57 Plaintiffs first sought production of the Sidley materials from a Sidley partner by way of a deposition subpoena with an accompanying request for documents.58 Sidley turned over more than 1,000 pages of documents but withheld the witness interview summaries and other internal legal memoranda.59 Plaintiffs moved to compel the school district to turn over the materials, and the trial court so ordered, finding that Sidley was hired as an “investigator, not as an attorney.”60 When plaintiffs found out that these materials were in Sidley’s 286 APPLYING THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE TO INVESTIGATIONS 81563_10_c10_p281-338.indd 286 1563_10_c10_p281-338.indd 286 11/28/11 12:23 PM 1/28/11 12:23 PM possession, and not in the school district’s, plaintiffs subpoenaed Sidley directly.61 When Sidley continued to assert a privilege claim, plaintiffs sought an order compelling Sidley to produce the documents.62 The trial court, reiterating the view that Sidley was an investigator, not an attorney, ordered production, and Sidley appealed.63 The Seventh Circuit reversed, concluding that Sidley was acting as an attorney while investigating the details of the allegations of sexual molestation.64 The appellate court concluded that the trial court erred by not considering the engagement letter:And I think the Paterno Estate will get everything since it's all relevant. Maybe but I believe defendants will vigorously challenge what information is relevant and what is not. The theory is that Freeh shaped his report to reach a predetermined end by picking and choosing what when in. Irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that the NCAA relied on a document (Freeh Reprt) that it believed to true and correct and had no reason to believe otherwise. The NCAA was not responsible for auditing the work of FSS.Obviously, it would all be relevant in order to see what went into the report and what didn't..

My hope is that some news organization files suit to get the documents. Never going to happen IMO

It'll be interesting to see which side the Paterno Estate takes in that case.

I'm more interested to see how Lubrano and Doren will now behave since being elevated to the executive committee. It will be interesting to see if they do an about face by fighting the release of documents at every turn or still continue to place the university in legal harm's way by looking to make public all of FSS's work product. If the latter, then they should be removed for not living up to their fiduciary obligation of protecting the university.

 
There is zero chance that the remaining Misanthropes have the clout to attempt to remove Lubrano, Doran or anyone else. You remind me of Hitler in the bunker giving orders to armies that
no longer exist. Any trustee that has plausible deniability in this vendetta and cover up will be prepared to use it asap. Repent the end is near.
 
so this pretty much guarantees that the alumni trustees are going to get access to the freeh docs right?
 
Existing in their own minds and maybe on paper, but not in the court of law. The latter is the only one that matters.
 
MOAR POLLZ!
tumblr_neyenvkonZ1qmynffo1_500.gif

ROTFFL!! I swear to God you've been killing me with the pics and videos you've been posting lately. You keep this up and I might not make it to the trials.
 
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CR wrote: "The only thing that is relevant is that the NCAA relied on a document (Freeh Reprt) that it believed to true and correct and had no reason to believe otherwise. The NCAA was not responsible for auditing the work of FSS."

Well theres at least one NCAA big wig (ed ray) who didn't even bother to read the freeh report before voting on the CD (how he didn't get crucified about this by the media is beyond me). The NCAA is responsible for doing their own damned due diligence. Just bc PSU told the NCAA freeh was ok to use doesnt mean the ncaa had to believe them. I guess it never occured to them the psu BOT/SITF was pulling one over on the ncaa??

Either the ncaa are complete incomepetent idiots or they colluded with freeh/OG BOT to each advance their own agendas. Either way it doesnt look good for the ncaa.

CR wrote: "It will be interesting to see if they do an about face by fighting the release of documents at every turn or still continue to place the university in legal harm's way by looking to make public all of FSS's work product."

Wrong again. The alum trustees arent going to make anything public. They already stated they would sign confidentiality agreements.They simply want access to unredacted source files. If they become aware of any info that shows criminal behavior im sure they will fwd it to the feds or OAG ;-)
 
How likely is it that one of the Freeh defectors pulled a Snowden, and has a full copy of all of the documents that Sollers et al can reference? Is this a possibility?
 
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Be prepared for possible further appeal of the denial and barring a reversal, likely future requests by the defense to have the court limit the materials turned over to just what is relevant to the estate's lawsuit. What is deemed relevant material will undoubtedly will result in further protracted litigation which will further frustrate plaintiff' by adding even more time and costs to their litigatory efforts. In the end, defendants will ask for and likely be granted a protective order which will seal the information from the public domain.
Weak CR.....just plain weak
 
CR66, Is that all you've got? Just "adding more time and costs to their ligitatory efforts?" If so, you'd be better off just hobnobbing at the club, trading investment war stories with the power elite, and vacationing on the French Riviera. Enjoy life. The world is your oyster.
Ha! I'm tired of doing all that fun stuff. Been doing it for almost 30 years now. Seriously, it gets boring. I'd much rather annoy the crap out of my adversaries here on BWI. :D
 
I'm more interested to see how Lubrano and Doren will now behave since being elevated to the executive committee. It will be interesting to see if they do an about face by fighting the release of documents at every turn or still continue to place the university in legal harm's way by looking to make public all of FSS's work product. If the latter, then they should be removed for not living up to their fiduciary obligation of protecting the university.

Ummmm... Releasing all of the documents would be a breach of fiduciary duty, opening up the university to lawsuits. That's your argument? So, that means there is information in the documents that is damaging to the university?

If the information places blame on C/S/S, who are already on trial and whom the Freeh Report and certain trustees have blamed, how does that change anything? The only way it hurts the university is if it points the blame elsewhere, at other university members. So, are you saying the information will point the finger in another direction?
 
Be prepared for possible further appeal of the denial and barring a reversal, likely future requests by the defense to have the court limit the materials turned over to just what is relevant to the estate's lawsuit. What is deemed relevant material will undoubtedly will result in further protracted litigation which will further frustrate plaintiff' by adding even more time and costs to their litigatory efforts. In the end, defendants will ask for and likely be granted a protective order which will seal the information from the public domain.
So let's take this to the logical conclusion. Even if a protective order seals the information from the public domain, the trial continues and the Paterno's get access. Let's say the Paterno's win. Even if the info is sealed, doesn't that by extension imply that the information was NOT what Freeh claimed? So, again, are you saying the information is damaging to Freeh and the university?
 
Ummmm... Releasing all of the documents would be a breach of fiduciary duty, opening up the university to lawsuits. That's your argument? So, that means there is information in the documents that is damaging to the university?

If the information places blame on C/S/S, who are already on trial and whom the Freeh Report and certain trustees have blamed, how does that change anything? The only way it hurts the university is if it points the blame elsewhere, at other university members. So, are you saying the information will point the finger in another direction?

I assume he's afraid of legal action from people interviewed if their confidentiality is eroded through release of whatever documents, hence breaching fiduciary blah, blah, blah. Nobody promised people anonymity, or did they? Nobody questioned anyone's fiduciary duties when they were incinerating millions on buying potential vulgar web domain names and paying spin doctors to write letters to the paper.
 
CR66, The difference between the case you cited and the Paterno case is that Sidley Austin was retained to help defend the school district. "The chronology of events confirms that Sidley was hired to conduct the District 100 investigation not merely in anticipation of likely litigation but in response to the actual filing of this lawsuit."

There is no evidence that Freeh was hired as a result of either actual or anticipated litigation. Freeh wasn't hired to help defend Penn State from litigation. The best evidence of that is that he generated a lengthy public report and gave a press conference regarding his findings -- litigation counsel don't do that.

And the self serving language in the engagement letter is truly irrelevant. Just because my lawyer and I get together and call something privileged doesn't make it so. Corporations always CC a lawyer in correspondence and then claim that makes the A/C privileged. The courts normally will look to the truth and determine whether the lawyer's involvement actually involved the rendition of legal services.

As for your arguments regarding whether responsibility for the Freeh Report can be pinned on the NCAA, that's a different consideration. I was merely pointing out that the only way to prove whether Freeh acted with malice is by looking at the underlying documents and see what he left in and what he left out.

Pinning that malice (assuming it can be proved) on the NCAA is a different matter.
 
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I assume he's afraid of legal action from people interviewed if their confidentiality is eroded through release of whatever documents, hence breaching fiduciary blah, blah, blah. Nobody promised people anonymity, or did they? Nobody questioned anyone's fiduciary duties when they were incinerating millions on buying potential vulgar web domain names and paying spin doctors to write letters to the paper.
Well, I've heard conflicting info on whether or not they were promised anonymity. OTOH, Penn State and Pepper Hamilton are sure to argue that, or have been. If the court rules the work product contained nothing protected, doesn't that give them cover?

Also, couldn't the interviews be released with names of those being interviewed redacted? That doesn't change the information gleaned from them. It might hurt credibility if the public doesn't know who was answering the questions, but if Freeh/Penn State is essentially guaranteeing the content? Was not the same information used to condemn Joe and C/S/S without revealing who was interviewed?

Lastly, couldn't the Paterno's go to the individuals in confidence and ask for permission to release the interviews?
 
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How likely is it that one of the Freeh defectors pulled a Snowden, and has a full copy of all of the documents that Sollers et al can reference? Is this a possibility?
I didn't put much stock in it a while back. But, it seems more likely that Freeh has rubbed former investigators the wrong way and that they (seems to be three) have offered their services. This would not be unlike what agents felt about LF (arrogant, know it all, who didn't want to hear bad news) when he was FBI Chief.
 
CR66, The difference between the case you cited and the Paterno case is that Sidley Austin was retained to help defend the school district. "The chronology of events confirms that Sidley was hired to conduct the District 100 investigation not merely in anticipation of likely litigation but in response to the actual filing of this lawsuit."

There is no evidence that Freeh was hired as a result of either actual or anticipated litigation. Freeh wasn't hired to help defend Penn State from litigation. The best evidence of that is that he generated a lengthy public report and gave a press conference regarding his findings -- litigation counsel don't do that.

And the self serving language in the engagement letter is truly irrelevant. Just because my lawyer and I get together and call something privileged doesn't make it so. Corporations always CC a lawyer in correspondence and then claim that makes the A/C privileged. The courts normally will look to the truth and determine whether the lawyer's involvement actually involved the rendition of legal services.

As for your arguments regarding whether responsibility for the Freeh Report can be pinned on the NCAA, that's a different consideration. I was merely pointing out that the only way to prove whether Freeh acted with malice is by looking at the underlying documents and see what he left in and what he left out.

Pinning that malice (assuming it can be proved) on the NCAA is a different matter.

I hear what you are saying but IMO, the contractual written word supersedes all else. Further, we don't really know what discussions of a legal nature that may have taken place between FSS and the SITF. My point was that acting as independent investigator and as one's legal counsel is not mutually exclusive and it's up to the courts to decide if the latter relationship exists.

Freeh is not being sued here. It's the NCAA and PSU as a nominal defendant. If the estate wants to determine if FSS acted with malice, they need to sue FSS and ask for FSS's work product. Accordingly, that is why I think PSU will ask the court to limit what evidence the estate is asking for. Just sayin.
 
Also, couldn't the interviews be released with names of those being interviewed redacted? That doesn't change the information gleaned from them. It might hurt credibility if the public doesn't know who was answering the questions, but if Freeh/Penn State is essentially guaranteeing the content?
That is certainly true but knowing who gave the statements would also shed light on the credibility of said statements. Say Freeh used several damning statements made by two or three people yet disregarded several other people who gave contradictory statements. It would raise the question of why Freeh chose to believe those particular people. Were they BoT members or other people like Triponey with an axe to grind? Still, even if the names weren't included and the above scenario was true Freeh would still have a lot of explaining to do.
 
I hear what you are saying but IMO, the contractual written word supersedes all else. Further, we don't really know what discussions of a legal nature that may have taken place between FSS and the SITF. My point was that acting as independent investigator and as one's legal counsel is not mutually exclusive and it's up to the courts to decide if the latter relationship exists.

Freeh is not being sued here. It's the NCAA and PSU as a nominal defendant. If the estate wants to determine if FSS acted with malice, they need to sue FSS and ask for FSS's work product. Accordingly, that is why I think PSU will ask the court to limit what evidence the estate is asking for. Just sayin.
Actually, Penn State's no longer in the case either as a nominal defendant or any other kind of defendant. The only claims against PSU were dismissed on the last pleading-go-round and since the SOL has run, it can't be brought back in.
 
If Freeh's team hands over all the documents requested and they fail to show any evidence that supports Freeh's "reasonable conclusions" about Paterno and the football team, then it plays right into the Paterno Estate's case. They don't have to show evidence of collusion between Freeh/PSU/NCAA to show that commercial disparagement occurred (though it would also support the Paterno case)
Is there a legal definition for "reasonable conclusions"?

Seems it is just a way of saying "maybe it happened this way"
 
I hear what you are saying but IMO, the contractual written word supersedes all else. Further, we don't really know what discussions of a legal nature that may have taken place between FSS and the SITF. My point was that acting as independent investigator and as one's legal counsel is not mutually exclusive and it's up to the courts to decide if the latter relationship exists.

Freeh is not being sued here. It's the NCAA and PSU as a nominal defendant. If the estate wants to determine if FSS acted with malice, they need to sue FSS and ask for FSS's work product. Accordingly, that is why I think PSU will ask the court to limit what evidence the estate is asking for. Just sayin.
My understanding is that their only route left is to appeal to the State Supreme Court, is that correct? And that the State Supreme Court rarely gets involved in these types of appeals. Yet, you feel not only will the State Supreme Court get involved, they're going to start making all kinds of rulings on what can and can't be released, etc. While I suppose nothing is impossible, doesn't that seem highly unlikely?
 
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I hear what you are saying but IMO, the contractual written word supersedes all else. Further, we don't really know what discussions of a legal nature that may have taken place between FSS and the SITF. My point was that acting as independent investigator and as one's legal counsel is not mutually exclusive and it's up to the courts to decide if the latter relationship exists.

Freeh is not being sued here. It's the NCAA and PSU as a nominal defendant. If the estate wants to determine if FSS acted with malice, they need to sue FSS and ask for FSS's work product. Accordingly, that is why I think PSU will ask the court to limit what evidence the estate is asking for. Just sayin.

Nice try. PSU owns the work product.
 
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In case it wasn't posted, the link below is to CDT's article on this development:

http://www.centredaily.com/2015/07/20/4842830_penn-state-freeh-law-firm-must.html?rh=1

The headline is "Penn State, Freeh law firm must turn over documents after privilege appeal fails in Paterno lawsuit". The article opens with this:

"There will not be a reconsideration of a stay on the privilege issue for Penn State and Pepper Hamilton in Pennsylvania Superior Court.

In documents filed Friday, the court formally issued an order denying reconsideration of the decision."
 
Can the Freeh grandstanding presentation be considered in and of itself as defamation of character? Does it all need to be in the report or can his actions also be called into play ?
 
Can the Freeh grandstanding presentation be considered in and of itself as defamation of character? Does it all need to be in the report or can his actions also be called into play ?
Freeh is not being sued by the Paterno's. Spanier lawsuit will address directly. Paterno lawsuit can still blow up Freeh, but not as a defendant.
 
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The Legacy Trustees have reason to keep the lid on the Freeh Documents. Since the Freeh Report was the basis for unprecedented sanctions, it follows that those who served on the SITF knew that Freeh found nothing to implicate Joe or indict the FB Program.....much to the chagrin of those who executed the vendetta......... The consent decree had to be an evil hand shake deal between two groups who wanted to use the Sandusky matter to further their own respective positions. Enter C.R...66?
Eventually someone will actually read Freeh.
 
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