Shots fired by crybaby Manning

[Ambrowns]

Complaining about low match counts in an Olympic year seems misguided to me.

Also, the argument that Starocci’s low match count deprived us of the ability to watch him as much this year is ridiculous, especially when this argument stems from someone complaining that their guy lost an opportunity. By Starocci not taking the mat a few times this season, we were able to witness one of PSU’s other wrestlers (Barraclough) capitalize on the their opportunity and beat a top ten wrestler as well as almost beat a prior national champ. That was a highlight of the season for many of us.

Wilson had an opportunity to qualify for nationals through placing at the conference tournament. He didn’t capitalize on that opportunity. His season prior to that didn’t earn him a wild card. Starocci’s did.

 

[mcpat]

It’s all silly. Who doesn’t want to see Carter at NCAAs? Who doesn’t want to see him at the Olympic Trials? Who wanted him to go at B1Gs when it could negatively impact his ability to go at NCAAs and the Olympic Trials?

Willie was right about there being a lot of crying. He was wrong about who was doing it.

 

[donboy6499]

It’s all silly. Who doesn’t want to see Carter at NCAAs? Who wanted him to go at B1Gs when it could negatively impact his ability to go at NCAAs?

Willie was right about there being a lot of crying. He was wrong about who was doing it.

Remember, all of this is because Willie’s buddies popped off a tweet about something he knew nothing about.

Everything else is Willie and Manning trying to thread a needle that allows Manning not to look like a dum dum but also not blame Cael. Again, all over the 34th ranked guy who got 100% the chance Willie is advocating for kids to get.

 

[johnstownsteel]

You can be upset at the rules and the low match counts but none of it has anything to do with Manning going to Twitter and accusing Cael of cheating 7 years ago.

Did you hear Willie's story about Manning and Bobby Douglas working out a "deal" to get their guys into one the tourneys? Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but Willie should have kept that one to himself. Especially if he's gonna defend the guy (who he outted for trying to game the system) that is now accusing another coach of gaming the system..

 

[Agoodnap]

You can be upset at the rules and the low match counts but none of it has anything to do with Manning going to Twitter and accusing Cael of cheating 7 years ago.

He straight up accused him of cheating and it appears that the only point was to smear Cael's reputation, since the committee would never use this accusation to change the at-large recipients.

@smalls103 You just made this statement above: "he larger point is not that Cael or Carter or PSU did anything wrong"

Your point in the podcast said nothing of the kind. If fact, your point was that they did indeed do something wrong. Have Basch pull the podcast down and try again. Anything less is not acceptable.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Ok..I'm done messin' with Willie. He's my guy and he's right in many ways here. I'm just concerned he's gonna step away as our lead recruiter over this. Anyone think maybe we should reach out to Ben Askren to see if he'd be interested if Willie "retires"?

 

[tullfan68]

Maybe their 165 pounder who’s been forced to wrestle 174 just needed 2 more weeks to prove he’s one of the best 33 at the weight.

he tried he failed!

 

[tullfan68]

Got to troll two coaches in one post. I saw an opportunity so I took it.. lol

does it really matter you guy would have scored zero points!

 

[tullfan68]

just one question anyone think Carter will lose?then seed him first!LOL

 

[Cowbell Man]

yeah, i goofed that up.

i thought Carter didn't allocate (b/c of low match count) but he did.

which means someone else from the B1G (Brody Baumann) got that spot, but he also took a WC.

the larger point is not that Cael or Carter or PSU did anything wrong, it's that the process is ass.

The process actually works so that guys who are injured have at least a chance to go.

The process works so that Baumann could get a spot. That Carter took one is irrelevant. If Carter had wrestled than Baumann would have been in the at large pool. It actually works. It actually is mostly designed to ensure that high quality wrestlers, specifically like Bousakis, can still make nationals even if they get unceremoniously bounced early.

Injury doesn’t really change that. Imagine having to leave those few wrestlers home if they actually could wrestle. Just so the theoretically 33rd best wrestler can make the stage.

If someone doesn’t like process of selecting the “final four” as it were, maybe work on that criteria. Manning’s post simply off the mark.

 

[smalls103]

yeah, idk guys lol.

the butt hurt is real i guess.

i really smacks of HR type stuff - getting totally blown out of proportion for something that matters not one iota.

it was a dumb tweet by manning, but he's a good dude.

a separate conversation is that a few dorks in a room, behind a veil crunch some numbers and determine the last 4/5/6 in the field. Just allocate them before and then the process is 1) transparent and 2) meritocratic

another conversation is 'should a wrestler be allowed to qualify for ncaa's without wrestling an actual conference match?' - my answer is a resounding 'no'. (and no, i'm not saying Carter would be out b/c Carter would have wrestled (which is kinda the effin' point)

and yet another convo is the 'gaming' of injuries in the 1) regular season 2) conferences and 3) pre NCAA's.

whatever the case, i'm not ripping or accusing cael. that's nonsense and HR level paranoia.

 

[HCS3Seasons]

It’s all silly. Who doesn’t want to see Carter at NCAAs? Who doesn’t want to see him at the Olympic Trials? Who wanted him to go at B1Gs when it could negatively impact his ability to go at NCAAs and the Olympic Trials?

Willie was right about there being a lot of crying. He was wrong about who was doing it.

Just guessing that there may be around 33 people who don't want to see Carter at NCAAs...

 

[Cowbell Man]

Also, the argument that Starocci’s low match count deprived us of the ability to watch him as much this year is ridiculous, especially when this argument stems from someone complaining that their guy lost an opportunity. By Starocci not taking the mat a few times this season, we were able to witness one of PSU’s other wrestlers (Barraclough) capitalize on the their opportunity and beat a top ten wrestler as well as almost beat a prior national champ. That was a highlight of the season for many of us.

Wilson had an opportunity to qualify for nationals through placing at the conference tournament. He didn’t capitalize on that opportunity. His season prior to that didn’t earn him a wild card. Starocci’s did.

And has been pointed out and Manning is missing it: if Carter could NOT wrestle, Cael 100% would have sent Barraclough to Bigs and in an ideal world based on today, would have sent Bubba packing, while actually stealing an AQ spot. The latter he sure would have done.

 

[smalls103]

That Carter took one is irrelevant. If Carter had wrestled than...

if Carter wrestled we aren't having this conversation.

period.

that's the entire point.

the situations with Suriano, Schlatter, Caldwell....

is, imo, unacceptable and easily preventable.

 

[smalls103]

He straight up accused him of cheating and it appears that the only point was to smear Cael's reputation, since the committee would never use this accusation to change the at-large recipients.

@smalls103 You just made this statement above: "he larger point is not that Cael or Carter or PSU did anything wrong"

Your point in the podcast said nothing of the kind. If fact, your point was that they did indeed do something wrong. Have Basch pull the podcast down and try again. Anything less is not acceptable.

would it be possible for you to be any more dramatic (not to mention disingenuous.)

 

[Agoodnap]

if Carter wrestled we aren't having this conversation.

period.

that's the entire point.

the situations with Suriano, Schlatter, Caldwell....

is, imo, unacceptable and easily preventable.

Yep, we're just as likely to be having a conversation about how Cael should have stopped him because he got hurt again and won't wrestle in the natty's. Would you rather have that discussion?

 

[Cstroke]

Did you hear Willie's story about Manning and Bobby Douglas working out a "deal" to get their guys into one the tourneys? Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but Willie should have kept that one to himself. Especially if he's gonna defend the guy (who he outted for trying to game the system) that is now accusing another coach of gaming the system..

The biggest part is it was a dumb tweet by manning..
I won’t argue with Willie, especially after he bought pics of my feet.Mods we can close this thread.

 

[mcpat]

whatever the case, i'm not ripping or accusing cael. that's nonsense and HR level paranoia.

I think going to social media with a conspiracy theory regarding Cael lying about injuries to keep the 34th guy out of the bracket is HR level paranoia. On an Ironbird level.

 

[smalls103]

Yep, we're just as likely to be having a conversation about how Cael should have stopped him because he got hurt again and won't wrestle in the natty's. Would you rather have that discussion?

perhaps that is the case,

but i will never

ever ever ever,

be in favor of a system where you don't have to wrestle at conferences and still qualify for ncaa's.

if you think that all of a sudden makes me a PSU hater, well, think what you want.

 

[donboy6499]

yeah, idk guys lol.

the butt hurt is real i guess.

i really smacks of HR type stuff - getting totally blown out of proportion for something that matters not one iota.

it was a dumb tweet by manning, but he's a good dude.

a separate conversation is that a few dorks in a room, behind a veil crunch some numbers and determine the last 4/5/6 in the field. Just allocate them before and then the process is 1) transparent and 2) meritocratic

another conversation is 'should a wrestler be allowed to qualify for ncaa's without wrestling an actual conference match?' - my answer is a resounding 'no'. (and no, i'm not saying Carter would be out b/c Carter would have wrestled (which is kinda the effin' point)

and yet another convo is the 'gaming' of injuries in the 1) regular season 2) conferences and 3) pre NCAA's.

whatever the case, i'm not ripping or accusing cael. that's nonsense and HR level paranoia.

Feels like the best of all worlds. They take a ton of people with a few at-large available. If the discussion is about making it more like high school (district to region to States only by place), another topic.

Also, hard to agree this is getting blown out of proportion as a response on a message board when several PSU guys weigh in immediately to confirm that Manning is being a crybaby and lying. One might even say he’s posting HR level stuff.

 

[donboy6499]

perhaps that is the case,

but i will never

ever ever ever,

be in favor of a system where you don't have to wrestle at conferences and still qualify for ncaa's.

if you think that all of a sudden makes me a PSU hater, well, think what you want.

Willie how often has this been such a point of contention to you that it took all of a podcast episode discussing it?

 

[Petch]

here's the thing about guys like you:

you've never talked to Manning in your life.

it was a bad/dumb tweet by a guy whose passion is seeing his guys achieve things.

but by all means, blow it out of proportion.

You can be passionate about your guys without blindly and publicly trashing another coach/team 7 years after a situation occurred…a situation he was/is clueless about.

 

[mcpat]

Yep, we're just as likely to be having a conversation about how Cael should have stopped him because he got hurt again and won't wrestle in the natty's. Would you rather have that discussion?

And it’s not just natty’s. There’s a tournament in April and another one this summer that happen only once every four years that Carter wants to compete in.

But hey - go wrestle at Big Tens two weeks after being carried off the mat so that folks can say the best wrestler in college “earned” his entry into a tournament where 33 of the 77 D1 starters compete.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

perhaps that is the case,

but i will never

ever ever ever,

be in favor of a system where you don't have to wrestle at conferences and still qualify for ncaa's.

if you think that all of a sudden makes me a PSU hater, well, think what you want.

When were you accused of being a "PSU hater"?

 

[PSUer1989]

Agree!! My spouse started as Health & PE.... Earned a Masters & PhD in Health Education at PSU.

I got my undergraduate at PSU Exercise Science (teaching track) and my Master at UMd in Kinesiology, with an emphasis on teaching pedagogy. I teach at a community college now and most of what I teach are fitness classes and teaching theory classes for our PE majors. I love it, but tell them to be prepared to fight against the dumb gym teacher stereotypes.

 

[smalls103]

Willie how often has this been such a point of contention to you that it took all of a podcast episode discussing it?

idk if you're being serious but i have discussed this very topic about six straight years following conferences.

if you think it's about Carter Starocci, you must be new or something.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

idk if you're being serious but i have discussed this very topic about six straight years following conferences.

if you think it's about Carter Starocci, you must be new or something.

Why the hostility?

 

[smalls103]

And it’s not just natty’s. There’s a tournament in April and another one this summer that happen only once every four years that Carter wants to compete in.

But hey - go wrestle at Big Tens two weeks after being carried off the mat so that folks can say the best wrestler in college “earned” his entry into a tournament where 33 of the 77 D1 starters compete.

i don't care. i truly don't care.

you should have to wrestle at conferences to make ncaa's.

in no other sport do you get a bye through what is literally called a 'qualifier'.

it's an abomination and a ruse.

 

[smalls103]

Why the hostility?

can you define hostility, please?

b/c i think you're using the term wrong and/or allowing your imagination to do some unnecessary work.

 

[PSUer1989]

yeah, idk guys lol.

the butt hurt is real i guess.

i really smacks of HR type stuff - getting totally blown out of proportion for something that matters not one iota.

it was a dumb tweet by manning, but he's a good dude.

a separate conversation is that a few dorks in a room, behind a veil crunch some numbers and determine the last 4/5/6 in the field. Just allocate them before and then the process is 1) transparent and 2) meritocratic

another conversation is 'should a wrestler be allowed to qualify for ncaa's without wrestling an actual conference match?' - my answer is a resounding 'no'. (and no, i'm not saying Carter would be out b/c Carter would have wrestled (which is kinda the effin' point)

and yet another convo is the 'gaming' of injuries in the 1) regular season 2) conferences and 3) pre NCAA's.

whatever the case, i'm not ripping or accusing cael. that's nonsense and HR level paranoia.

I just listened to the podcast. @smalls103,
people complain that the dual season doesn’t matter and it needs to matter more. I am curious as to what ramifications you think your proposed system would have on the dual season. If you can’t earn some leeway by excelling during the regular season, I could see even more missed big matchups.

 

[mcpat]

I’ve literally listened to NCAA at-large selection committees talk about giving one team entry over another because a star player was out due to injury in the conference tournament or regular season loss that might have otherwise left them out.

Don’t act like it’s only wrestling.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

can you define hostility, please?

b/c i think you're using the term wrong and/or allowing your imagination to do some unnecessary work.

Take a step back and read your responses in this thread. Dismissive, hostile, defensive, what would you prefer?

 

[smalls103]

You can be passionate about your guys without blindly and publicly trashing another coach/team 7 years after a situation occurred…a situation he was/is clueless about.

yes, i said it was a stupid tweet/take like 10 times.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Take a step back and read your responses in this thread. Dismissive, hostile, defensive, what would you prefer?

c'mon .. Willie has been fine in this thread. It is just his opinion we disagree with.

 

[smalls103]

Take a step back and read your responses in this thread. Dismissive, hostile, defensive, what would you prefer?

he asked why i was bringing this up just now.

i responded that i've talked about the topic annually for quite awhile.

i can only assume he's new or unaware.

you're reading too much into it.

 

[Petch]

yes, i said it was a stupid tweet/take like 10 times.

You did…but you weren’t the one publicly trashing my Alma mater. My issue is not with you, but Manning. We will gladly accept his public apology tweet though.

 

[smalls103]

I just listened to the podcast. @smalls103,
people complain that the dual season doesn’t matter and it needs to matter more. I am curious as to what ramifications you think your proposed system would have on the dual season. If you can’t earn some leeway by excelling during the regular season, I could see even more missed big matchups.

it would actually matter more.

BC conference allocations would matter more.

Michael Blockhus just mailed it in, in case you missed it. b/c he knew he'd get a wild card.

Brayton Lee didn't, because he knew he wouldn't.

in this way, both the regular season and conference tournament matters more.

 

[amattaro]

The most disturbing thing about all of this is Manning stirring this up on #HandsomeTuesday. As beyond the pale as anything I can recall.

 

[mcpat]

I don’t want to call Willie out or anything, but I think his first post in this thread called us cry-babies and said our posts were lacking reality. Then he posted a podcast claiming a half-dozen times that Carter hadn’t earned a conference allocation when he had.

 

[Dogwelder]

[Re: Manning’s wrestler] he tried he failed!

Veni, Vidi; Poopi