Should 'SANDY" begin the search for (after firing the current) women's softball coach?
- Thread starter TheGLOV
- Start date
Ironically, softball is at about .500 on the season, but will probably struggle again in conference. Baseball is a number of games over .500 right now, but showing signs of another B1G season struggle. As mentioned, let's see how it plays out; I'm hopeful but not optimistic. Both have the facilities to draw the right players and consistently compete in the B1G. Roy Halladay's son is coming on board for baseball this coming fall.
I don't expect either to be National Champions, but going deep into the B1G tournament consistently and then into the College WS now and then should be a reasonable goal for both.
The team that is surprisingly bad so far this season is women's lacrosse. They are really unimpressive so far this season, while the men currently sit as the nation's #1 team with a couple of impressive wins and one 1-point loss to another top team in Yale.
I don't expect either to be National Champions, but going deep into the B1G tournament consistently and then into the College WS now and then should be a reasonable goal for both.
The team that is surprisingly bad so far this season is women's lacrosse. They are really unimpressive so far this season, while the men currently sit as the nation's #1 team with a couple of impressive wins and one 1-point loss to another top team in Yale.
Competing for B1G titles is a reasonable goal for Penn State baseball and softball. While it's not unprecedented for a "cold weather" school to win a national championship in either (Michigan softball 2005, tOSU baseball in 1966, Minnesota '64, Michigan '62), it's highly problematic. Blue chip recruits from cold weather states almost always head south.
Amanda Lehotek's job and Rob Cooper's job likely depend on how their respective squads perform through the reminder of the B1G schedule. Lehotek was an under-the-radar hire by Dave Joyner whose teams had improved every year in her two previous head coaching stops. Cooper was a more celebrated hire in college baseball circles due to his success leading the USA Baseball team and his fine record at Wright State. Both coaches seem to promote Penn State values. I'm particularly surprised Cooper's teams haven't done better, given his former record and the respect with which other college coaches appear to regard him.
Both squads have improved their pitching but have been terrible defensively of late. Both have considerably upped their W-L records to date versus last year, but if they crash their B1G schedules, Barbour will probably have two more searches on her hands come May.
Amanda Lehotek's job and Rob Cooper's job likely depend on how their respective squads perform through the reminder of the B1G schedule. Lehotek was an under-the-radar hire by Dave Joyner whose teams had improved every year in her two previous head coaching stops. Cooper was a more celebrated hire in college baseball circles due to his success leading the USA Baseball team and his fine record at Wright State. Both coaches seem to promote Penn State values. I'm particularly surprised Cooper's teams haven't done better, given his former record and the respect with which other college coaches appear to regard him.
Both squads have improved their pitching but have been terrible defensively of late. Both have considerably upped their W-L records to date versus last year, but if they crash their B1G schedules, Barbour will probably have two more searches on her hands come May.
fwiw U of Maine had a pretty good run, and I dont think Maine is a warm weather place in the spring..
College World Series appearances
1964, 1976, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986
NCAA Tournament appearances
1964, 1975, 1976, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1990, 1991, 1993, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2011
She was at schools that shouldnt be playing D1 softball in the first place and are nowhere schools where one good player could make a differecne. As far as PSU values that may be but she fell hook line and sinker for players that were just looking for money and players that were force fed to her by snake oil travel coaches just trying to pad their reputations as to where they send their girls to. (Penn State is a better name than Radford) also in the hopes those travel teams would funnel better players in the years to come. But guess what those better players want to play in the SEC not because its warm but because its where the best softball is played. I dont buy the cold weather stuff, Heck half of the season is played in Florida anyway.
and as far as versus last year 18-18 isnt that impressive when your playing FAMU, FIU, Dakota State?? At least Petrini lost to powerhouse ranked teams in the spring Florida schedule. Believe it or not girls do want to play for and against the best teams and I suspect Iron does sharpen Iron
It was a totally different system back then for many of these CWS appearances.
There were eight regions in the country, with a regional winner advancing to the CWS.
Maine was in Region 1 (New England) as I recall. PSU was in Region 2.
Maine could often beat the other small colleges and universities in New England and get to the CWS where they would quickly lose 2 games and go home.
Eventually, the poobahs realized that there were probably 10 teams in each of Texas, Arizona, Florida and California which were better than Maine on a consistent basis.
Thus, the move to a 64 team tourney, generally similar to hoops as far as the number of entrants, followed by regionals, super regionals and the CWS.
For me, sports falls into one of two categories: revenue producing and "just for fun". Just for fun is for the student-athlete's enhanced college experience in that it provides a teaching mechanism to learn be an individual within a team goal. An added complexity is to desire to win while continuing to learn and grow when you lose. Winning, often times, is much less valuable than losing for team members. Point being, what makes "softball" something PSU should be investing in? If it goes away, who is hurt? With the threats to the revenue stream for football and basketball, the two revenue making sports, does the school really want to make long term investments in sports that provide little value (or, at least, less value than the next best opportunity?)?
well no one is hurt if it goes away except maybe Mr/Mrs Beard. Its just 25 less students experiencing the challenge of balancing school and sports at the the gain of only 12 full scholarship dollars.
Most of the girls if they get to this level have already experienced from their travel ball "learn be an individual within a team goal. An added complexity is to desire to win while continuing to learn and grow when you lose. Winning, often times, is much less valuable than losing for team members."
The Bottom line, while losing money, is the off chance that you increase the cache of your school by winning and nothing more. notice how PSU is basking in its Volleyball and Wrestling Championships. Not exactly revenue producing either.
I don't believe you will get Sandy to take on any big jobs for a while. Way too tired from having to hire someone to find PSU a women's BB coach....
I would add players that can play and have chips on their shoulders and eager to get better. Of course the 'get better part' is if you have a staff that knows how to develop to which has not been seen to date over 4 years
Totally agree. The question is, for the cost, are their better investments to make?
I thought we were talking basketball? Also, I thought fencers preferred dull blades.
Why? You do not like here personality. You do not like her coaching style. You do not think she has the credentials.
She had a bad year last year because she lost her TWO best pitchers last year in addition to injury & illness bug among players. Near the end of season they were using a walk-on to help out with the pitching chores.
So, you believe that the first half of the season was poor. They were above .500 while playing all there games on the road and having to practice indoors at Holuba Hall. Give me a break!
I agree. But it should not take 65-80 games and 15-20 road trips to learn this.
They were 13-3. And got bitchslapped by Binghamton. They're a poor hitting team and have no pitching depth after the first couple guys. I mean the guy with the highest batting average on the team is a football player the rest of the year.
Get out your check book! Another WE NEED BIG NAME. Show me your money!
And your is Hippenhammer should not be playing. I congratulate him.
Difficult question. I'll try to answer tangentially. Quite a few Ivy League schools field more teams, with more participants, costing far less than "big time" athletic programs. There are other ways.
LOL says the guy who probably has DD on the team.
Current coach record has been worse every year since she came on board which means she got worse with her players. This year being an exception but hey who cant improve on 9 wins????? thanks to a cupcake schedule (the last refuge of a coach trying to hang on to their job) odds are they wont crack 25 wins again this year, done by the previous coach in 11 out of her last 15 seasons and whom also passed 30 wins in 8 out 15 seasons
You impressed by the USF tournament they were in by not even playing USF? Instead they played Holy Cross(4-23), S Dakota State (24-8){summit league}, Central Michigan (13-18-1), St Joes (15-15), Toledo(10-19) Notice every one of those teams traveled too I suppose you can hang your hat on that tourney because "They are who they thought they were"
Her ability to get a decent assistant is non existent and it has nothing to do with her coaching style ok maybe it does because she doesn't have one? She got her break because the intra-fraternity thought she was an up and comer because she "ran great drills" Drills mean nothing if you cant make them stick or improve your players.
so how was the previous coach a joke 10 winning seasons out of her last 15 in comparison? they were scheduling all the right teams in the past and your making excuses for traveling every week--- News Flash all northern teams do and have been doing it for decades and they play teams that ironically travel themselves except the host team in Florida, so quit making excuses. And you can lump the injury thing in their as excuses as well since all teams get them.
You also don't have to break out the checkbook as I know many coaches that would coach circles around her and for less pay.
There are always advantages and disadvantages. Of course, we see a "way" to get connected kids into a school based on them participating in rowing or whatever. Plus, lots more kids will go to Harvard/Penn/Cornell/Princeton/Yale, than PSU, to get that on their resume.
As you say, hard to know unless you see the cash flowing and benefits to the kids.
If someone is looking for my opinion, which means nothing, I'd starve these sports and plow it into basketball.
Thanks for the information, you are an asset to the board.
My point is that the Ivies deliver the same "intangible" benefits to more students at considerably lower cost. But you're right, different kettle of fish.
A school like PSU is much more difficult to evaluate because the shadow football casts is so overwhelming. Large chunks of revenue and expense go unallocated (to specific sports) for what are probably good cost accounting reasons. Then there are revenues and costs that re not captured in the Department's books. Get inside, dig deeper, and you can get a much better picture of what the Athletic Department looks like in various permutations. Is the incumbent AD is that introspective? NFW, but that makes her the same as every other AD and the vast majority of university administrators. Poking a toe outside of the box just ain't in their makeup.
Other sports don't have to be "starved" to invest in basketball. The question is whether sufficient incremental income (through increased ticket sales) can be generated to justify that investment. I don't know, but it is problematic. Does Barbour know? Wouldn't bet on it either way. In another discussion on the same topic another poster suggested that Barbour felt that basketball was the sport on which she could make her mark. I view that prospect with mixed emotions.
As for other sports, they have value, but the value isn't expressed in dollars and cents. That being the case, that value should be regularly and rigorously assessed. Do I think that happens at PSU? Barry ran a video clip of a (BoT?) committee reviewing the Athletic. Disappointing, bigly, if that's an example of what takes place.
Finally, many thanks for the compliment. I do mean well, just happen to come from the school that believes organizations don't get better if they spend too much time, which is anything more than 30 seconds a day, patting themselves on the back.
Format history and changes
See also: NCAA Division I Baseball Championship § Past formats
2006 College World Series Championship game (University of North Carolina versus Oregon State University) at Rosenblatt Stadium in Omaha, Nebraska.
- 1947 – Eight teams were divided into two, four-team, single-elimination playoffs. The two winners then met in a best-of-three final in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
- 1948 – Similar to 1947, but the two, four-team playoffs were changed to double-elimination tournaments. Again in the finals, the two winners met in a best-of-three format in Kalamazoo.
- 1949 – The final was expanded to a four-team, double-elimination format and the site changed to Wichita, Kansas. Eight teams began the playoffs with the four finalists decided by a best-of-three district format.
- 1950–1987 – An eight-team, double-elimination format for the College World Series coincided with the move to Omaha, Nebraska in 1950. From 1950 to 1953, a baseball committee chose one team from each of the eight NCAA districts to compete at the CWS, which constituted the entire Division I tournament, as there were no preliminary rounds. (In 1948 and 1949, a selection committee in each of the eight districts chose its district representative based on the committee's own criteria, which might or might not include committee selections, conference champions, and district playoffs.) Through 1987 the College World Series was a pure double-elimination event. That ended with the 1987 College World Series. In 1954, the Division I tournament began having preliminary rounds to determine the eight CWS teams. From 1954 to 1975, the number of teams in the first round of the overall tournament ranged from 21 to 32. The number of first-round teams was increased to 34 in 1976, 36 in 1982, 38 in 1985, 40 in 1986, and 48 in 1987.
- 1988–1998 – The format was changed beginning with the 1988 College World Series, when the tournament was divided into 2 four-team double-elimination brackets, with the survivors of each bracket playing in a single championship game. The single-game championship was designed for network television, with the final game on CBS on a Saturday afternoon.
- 1999–2002 – With some 293 Division I teams playing, the NCAA expanded the overall tournament to a 64-team Regional field in 1999—with 8 National Seed teams (the top 8 seeds)—divided into 16 four-team regionals (each region seeded 1 to 4). The winners of the 16 "Regionals" advance to a second round, consisting of 8 two-team, best-of-three-format "Super Regionals". (The National Seed teams that win their regional bracket are placed in different Super Regionals, so that no National Seed teams meet each other in a Super Regional.) The 8 Super Regional winners advance to the CWS in Omaha. While the CWS format remained the same, the expanded field meant that the eight CWS teams now are determined by the second-round Super Regionals. The 64-team bracket is set at the beginning of the championship and teams are not reseeded for the CWS. Since the 1999 College World Series, the four-team brackets in the CWS have been determined by the results of super-regional play, much like the NCAA basketball tournament. Prior to 1999, the four-team brackets were determined by the regional tournaments.
- 2003–present – The championship final became a best-of-three series between the 2 four-team bracket winners, with games scheduled for Saturday, Sunday, and Monday evenings. In the results shown below, Score indicates the score of the championship game(s) only. In 2008, the start of the CWS was moved back one day, and an extra day of rest was added in between bracket play and the championship series.
2019/2020 is the make or break years for her. This freshman and next years class have been loaded in comparison to the first 3 years since her start. You see the impact of the freshman this season, especially Parshall on the mound. As for assistants, she has gone through 3 hitting coaches in 5 years. (Joe Guthrie now at UAB was her recruiting coordinator in his tenure.) This is a huge development year and I think 2020 hinges her fate. There is plenty of alumni and booster $$ out there waiting for this team to turn the corner.
You are correct, mea culpa.
Yale has Men's - Crew, Squash or Sailing and Women's - Crew, Squash or Sailing. Sailing is a combined sport.
Harvard has Men's - Heavyweight Crew, Lightweight Crew, Sailing, Skiing, Squash, Waterpolo and Women's - Heavyweight Crew, Lightweight Crew, Rugby, Sailing, Skiing, Squash, Waterpolo
Similar threads
