SIAP/FC: A. Lubrano's email to Eric Barron re: JVP not recognized among best-ever coaches by SI

[Electric Lion]

Joe Paterno is (1) dead and (2) has, at least to some extent, a disgraced reputation.

Penn State gets no benefit from promoting people like that.

NO organization gets a benefit from promoting people like that.

It's over. It's BEEN over. This tide isn't reversing.

You sound like a person who can't imagine what it's like to have lived an exemplary life only to scapegoated. Is it really that hard to imagine? You think you can just move on from that?
You also sound like a guy who would've kept the trains running on time. Don't you teach your kids to fight for what's right? What's it like living life as a rationalizing sell out?

 

[flinter]

That SI could put Bowden on this list and exclude Joe speaks volumes about what they value in a person. Obviously winning (even though Joe won more than all of them) trumps educating, turning boys into upstanding men and preparing them for life beyond football. It’s representative of what is valued in society today. And I guess Woody gets a pass for whacking that player.
And we have the culture problem.

It's actually THE culture problem.

 

[michnittlion]

You sound like a person who can't imagine what it's like to have lived an exemplary life only to scapegoated. Is it really that hard to imagine? You think you can just move on from that?
You also sound like a guy who would've kept the trains running on time. Don't you teach your kids to fight for what's right? What's it like living life as a rationalizing sell out?

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

 

[B_Levinson]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

https://www.centredaily.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/article233993597.html The Trustees who fired Paterno would have probably been expelled from the U.S. Military Academy for lying or tolerating those who do.

 

[B_Levinson]

Have not seen this posted here after being posted 3 days ago on Facebook, so apologies if a repeat.
Copying (in Italics) an Aug. 15 post by Anthony Lubrano @lubrano on Facebook (yes, I know... it's an SI list/article, but still):

I sent Eric Barron this email tonight. Copied were Mark Dambly, Matt Schuyler, Jake Corman. Al Lord and Bob Capretto (the latter two because of their undying love for Joe and PSU and because I served with them on the BOT.

Today at 7:54 pm

Eric-

Guess who is not on this list?

https://www.si.com/…/best-coaches-college-football-history-…

The guy won two national titles and went undefeated 4 other times (which is essentially 6 National titles)—won more Bowls than anyone, won more games than anyone, never went on probation, graduated his players, forced instant replay on college football and oh yeah was the first guy to win all 5 major bowls —Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Rose and Fiesta and accumulated a record of 14-5 in those major bowl games. But sure he isn’t one of the top ten guys of all time.....and you know why he's not on that list?

Because of your cowardice.

Congratulations.

Anthony

And, in a LOL irony that is so fitting of Dambly's lack of self-awareness:

Here is Mark Dambly’s response:

Anthony, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that does not entitle you to be rude and inconsiderate to President Baron. Frankly, I am not interested in hearing from you if this is the manner in which you intend on communicating. It is not becoming of a mature adult.

I think some of the responses were written by our fellow BWI posters!

If Dambly is a 2012 holdover, he is among the Trustees who lied or tolerated same with regard to the circumstances of Paterno's dismissal and would have probably been expelled under the USMA's Honor Code. If there is a way to post images here I can go into further detail. See also https://www.centredaily.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/article233993597.html

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

If Barron was a man of principle, he'd rightly defend Paterno, .

He's a part time man of principle

Which might be the most dangerous type

 

[colt21]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

You back Michy ??

Again repeat after me

Joe did exactly what he should have, with the information he was given, in his role, at that time!

Again, I repeat, that is from a professional in the field and is NOT an opinion and not up for debate.

 

[RussianEagle]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

Curley and Schultz did not do nothing. They banned Sandusky from the football facilities and told the child psychologist who headed Sandusky’s charity. They saw it as a non issue because Sandusky offered to allow them to talk to the boy, who was like a son to Sandusky. McQueary also had no issue with how it was handled and continued to play in Sandusky’s charity golf tournaments.

As for Joes knowledge of the 1998, I don’t think he lied. He had no reason to lie. If he lied about not knowing 1998, why would he not do the same about 2001 and claim he couldn’t remember what McQueary told him. Probably as he got older his memory faded and perhaps the incidents ran together. Besides the 1998 incident was not a big deal. The boy, as a grown man, sent Jerry Happy Fathers Day texts not too long before the arrest, and even told another accuser he was still questioning Sandusky’s guilt even after the arrest.

I do agree with you that Wick Sollers is trash. Him and Scott Paterno were too afraid to question McQueary’s narrative and it ended up costing them.

 

[RussianEagle]

Urban Meyer called Joe the greatest coach in college football history.
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2012/01/urban_meyer_calls_joe_paterno.html

So did Bobby Bowden.

Others agreed
https://onwardstate.com/2014/04/15/joe-paterno-voted-greatest-football-coach-in-big-ten-history/

I’m sure most football coaches, unlike media members, know Paterno is innocent. They’ve actually immersed themselves in “football culture” and understand that the narrative of allowing a retired assistant to have gay sex with underage boys in the locker room because “they need to protect the football program” is completely absurd!

 

[RussianEagle]

I doubt the brass at SI would have let her put Joe in the article even if that’s what she wanted. I canceled my subscription after I saw the article.

I never even opened an issue of SI since they produced that awful cover with Joe in Nov 2011

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I never even opened an issue of SI since they produced that awful cover with Joe in Nov 2011

I do not know anybody who has opened an issue of SI since the mid-1990s.

 

[Art]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

Bubba wants to know what time he can come over.

 

[michnittlion]

Bubba wants to know what time he can come over.

It's past 10 PM ET. Which means Art's had a couple and is back to making Bubba jokes.

 

[indynittany]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

Neither Joe, nor Tim and Gary were told of CSA. Why? Because MM didn't witness CSA and he didn't report CSA.

Joe did plenty. He followed university policy and state law by reporting to his superiors. He later followed up with MM, since Mike worked for Joe. What he did not do is use his position to involve himself in a matter that was none of his business. Without Joe, Sandusky would have most likely never been indicted.

C/S/S did not do nothing. They took measured steps to avoid a future he said/he said scenario, like what happened in '98. Their concern...their "only" concern..... was not that Sandusky had abused V2, but that a subsequent incident like '98 might lead to Sandusky being falsely accused with nothing but his word to refute the accusation. Such a development would have surely dragged PSU into a civil suit with no way out but to settle.

Had any of the commonwealth's narrative been true, the OAG would not have been forced to drop every one of the 15 felonies with which it originally charged C/S/S. No perjury. No concealment. No conspiracy. No obstruction. And no felony failure to report.

However, somebody at PSU was preordained to take the fall for what should have been entirely a TSM scandal. That somebody was C/S/S......and JVP. A bogus, misdemeanor failure to report charge was crammed down their throats to cement the narrative.

 

[PSUMATT85]

I never even opened an issue of SI since they produced that awful cover with Joe in Nov 2011

Me too. Canceled a subscription I had since 1977, and you know what. I keep asking myself why I didn’t 15 years earlier. Don’t miss it

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

Saying he did nothing when in the same post you say he informed his superiors is a sure sign that you are an idiot. In you very own post, you admit he reported it up the chain and couldn't really go above them. You are literally talking out of both sides of your mouth since you pigeon holed yourself on this very topic years ago. It was a GD witch hunt and Joe took the brunt of it for the school through the media. That is the REALITY of what occurred and no you apparently don't know what reality is like because you wouldn't make such a GD hypocritical statement in your own GD post.

 

[bdgan]

I never even opened an issue of SI since they produced that awful cover with Joe in Nov 2011

SI was like the rest of the media. They saw an opportunity to cash in on JoePa's demise.

 

[Art]

It's past 10 PM ET. Which me

It's past 10 PM ET. Which means Art's had a couple and is back to making Bubba jokes.

Bubba called. Said you weren't no fun so you'll have to go back to fvcking yourself.

 

[denniskembala]

You sound like a person who can't imagine what it's like to have lived an exemplary life only to scapegoated. Is it really that hard to imagine? You think you can just move on from that?
You also sound like a guy who would've kept the trains running on time. Don't you teach your kids to fight for what's right? What's it like living life as a rationalizing sell out?

michnitwit has nothing to do with Penn State or his half dozen other nics.

 

[denniskembala]

It's past 10 PM ET. Which means Art's had a couple and is back to making Bubba jokes.

Turd alert. How's "Skunkie"?

 

[Lion409]

While I am all for getting to the truth and letting the chips fall where they may, I don't feel that it will change a lot of minds. The false narrative is too prevalent and provides those people that already hated Paterno and Penn State with all they need to feel vindicated. Enough information has already been produced that would cause a reasonable person to question the initial findings and the Freeh Report....yet it is not being covered by the media. We should still continue the dialog and dig to find the real truth. However, I feel that it will not go beyond these pages or capture the attention of anyone who already does not feel that a great man was railroaded.

 

[bdgan]

While I am all for getting to the truth and letting the chips fall where they may, I don't feel that it will change a lot of minds. The false narrative is too prevalent and provides those people that already hated Paterno and Penn State with all they need to feel vindicated. Enough information has already been produced that would cause a reasonable person to question the initial findings and the Freeh Report....yet it is not being covered by the media. We should still continue the dialog and dig to find the real truth. However, I feel that it will not go beyond these pages or capture the attention of anyone who already does not feel that a great man was railroaded.

I hoped for better support for JoePa from assistant coaches, staff, and administrators. Unfortunately I suspect a lot of them were advised by lawyers to keep their mouths shut rather than riaks becoming embroiled in the scandal.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001. And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001.

That's why his reputation is a bit disgraced.

It is what it is. The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now.

(that despite Wick Sollers' claims in April 2012 that he had "indisputable evidence" showing that Paterno didn't know about 1998 in 2001. Sollers NEVER backed up his talking point. Sollers was an over-paid lawyer who did nothing for the Paternos during all those years.)

And before anyone preaches to me: I know. JoePa could have gotten in trouble in 2001 if he went over Spanier/Curley's heads. He may have lost his job. I DO know what that reality is like.

"Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001."
What did he know about 1998? That there was a police investigation that resulted in no charges? And?

"And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001."
There is a major error in that sentence. I hope you know what it is.

"The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now"
Really? It's been contradicted by multiple reports. SMFH.

 

[BobPSU92]

"Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001."
What did he know about 1998? That there was a police investigation that resulted in no charges? And?

"And he then decided to do nothing after Spanier/Curley did nothing in 2001."
There is a major error in that sentence. I hope you know what it is.

"The above point hasn't been contradicted for 7+ years now"
Really? It's been contradicted by multiple reports. SMFH.

Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore feature.

In other words, stop wasting time arguing with trolls and the willfully ignorant.

 

[PSU_Chicago]

When does McQueary tell the truth?

 

[Madsol]

I hoped for better support for JoePa from assistant coaches, staff, and administrators. Unfortunately I suspect a lot of them were advised by lawyers to keep their mouths shut rather than riaks becoming embroiled in the scandal.

Agreed. I've been very disappointed by that. In fact, other than Franco and to a lesser extent Todd Blackledge, I can't recall a real forceful defense of Joe from past players, coaches or admin. Hard to believe that ALL of them lawyered up. Afraid far too many of them simply took the.easy way out and didn't do the hard, but right, thing.

 

[PSU_Chicago]

Agreed. I've been very disappointed by that. In fact, other than Franco and to a lesser extent Todd Blackledge, I can't recall a real forceful defense of Joe from past players, coaches or admin. Hard to believe that ALL of them lawyered up. Afraid far too many of them simply took the.easy way out and didn't do the hard, but right, thing.

I have wondered about that too. The Letterman seemed relatively quiet in any defense of Joe.

 

[Columbus_Lion]

"Joe Paterno knew about 1998 in 2001"

What did he know? He knew law enforcement investigated and didn't press charges.

Not sure where to go from there? Hire a hit man?

Look at Epstein case...law enforcement is going to let the predators go unpunished. The recent stories about Epstein (Clinton, Richardson, Mithcell, Wexner) wreaks of something to be look at in detail, but will probably be brushed under the rug.

 

[bdgan]

Agreed. I've been very disappointed by that. In fact, other than Franco and to a lesser extent Todd Blackledge, I can't recall a real forceful defense of Joe from past players, coaches or admin. Hard to believe that ALL of them lawyered up. Afraid far too many of them simply took the.easy way out and didn't do the hard, but right, thing.

To be fair they don't know what Joe might have said to Curley. A few mentioned that they didn't have any idea that JS abused kids then moved on. Of course they would say that because they didn't want to be accused of not stopping it. It seems like most coaches, staff, and administrators just decided to stay as far away as possible from the mess.

 

[MJG-90]

His record in the 2000s was poor and he was a below-average coach for that decade - that hits his legacy as well.

He won two Big Ten Championships and also won more bowl games than Michigan in that timeframe.

Folks need to move on. It's been 7+ years now.

I hope you were never in the military. You seem like the kind of guy who would leave his fallen battle mates behind because "Hey, they're dead, who cares? Let's save ourselves.".

 

[Bob78]

I have wondered about that too. The Letterman seemed relatively quiet in any defense of Joe.

The Lettermen were a huge part of "The Joe We Know" film, which was an emotional experience for them. They also requested and then put on the tribute to Joe on the 50th anniversary of his first game as HC with an event at the baseball stadium, I think. Mike Reid played and sang. CJF was there as well.

The Admins were threatened with being fired if they spoke up or defended Joe. Very few took on that challenge once they saw how vengeful Fester was with Mark Sherburne, who was a threat to Fester's job, or so Fester thought. You know if you're a bad fit for a job, and someone is on staff who is a very good fit, that v.g. person is a threat. Fester was threatened by Mark's competence and leadership.
Also, if you consider Lou Prato as part of the staff as PSU's sports historian, he certainly is vocal about his support for Joe.

The BOT and Pres office pretty much all know that Joe was thrown aside for no good reason by now. They just won't do anything about it.

Some wealthy donor needs to start a JVP museum outside of campus. Get the Paterno family involved. Raise funds, tie it to a Paterno family cause somehow, and show the world who JVP truly was. Because he was not what far too many people think due to the nonsense our own BOT threw on top of us.

 

[Madsol]

To be fair they don't know what Joe might have said to Curley. A few mentioned that they didn't have any idea that JS abused kids then moved on. Of course they would say that because they didn't want to be accused of not stopping it. It seems like most coaches, staff, and administrators just decided to stay as far away as possible from the mess.

Sorry, but that's crap. No reasonable person believes Joe told Curley to do anything other than what Curley thought was best. If Joe wanted Curley to bury it, why in the world would he have brought it to Curley in the first place? It defies logic. The whole idea of a Paterno-led conspiracy of silence defies all logic and only the illogical, aka michnittlion, and pure haters, aka michnittlion, believe it. If former players are refraining from defending Joe because they fear there is this massive other shoe to drop in the form of Joe advising Curley to cover it up, then they're not only weak, they're nuts.

 

[Achowalogan]

To show that there was no PSU conspiracy to rape kids but that PSU was a victim, just as Joe was.

Penn State was a victim...of it's own, home grown, 11/ 9.11 BOT terrorists

 

[bdgan]

Sorry, but that's crap. No reasonable person believes Joe told Curley to do anything other than what Curley thought was best. If Joe wanted Curley to bury it, why in the world would he have brought it to Curley in the first place? It defies logic. The whole idea of a Paterno-led conspiracy of silence defies all logic and only the illogical, aka michnittlion, and pure haters, aka michnittlion, believe it. If former players are refraining from defending Joe because they fear there is this massive other shoe to drop in the form of Joe advising Curley to cover it up, then they're not only weak, they're nuts.

A lot of former players did come to Joe's defense. I'm talking about assistant coaches and staff.

 

[bdgan]

The Lettermen were a huge part of "The Joe We Know" film, which was an emotional experience for them. They also requested and then put on the tribute to Joe on the 50th anniversary of his first game as HC with an event at the baseball stadium, I think. Mike Reid played and sang. CJF was there as well.

The Admins were threatened with being fired if they spoke up or defended Joe. Very few took on that challenge once they saw how vengeful Fester was with Mark Sherburne, who was a threat to Fester's job, or so Fester thought. You know if you're a bad fit for a job, and someone is on staff who is a very good fit, that v.g. person is a threat. Fester was threatened by Mark's competence and leadership.
Also, if you consider Lou Prato as part of the staff as PSU's sports historian, he certainly is vocal about his support for Joe.

The BOT and Pres office pretty much all know that Joe was thrown aside for no good reason by now. They just won't do anything about it.

Some wealthy donor needs to start a JVP museum outside of campus. Get the Paterno family involved. Raise funds, tie it to a Paterno family cause somehow, and show the world who JVP truly was. Because he was not what far too many people think due to the nonsense our own BOT threw on top of us.

I agree with all of that except for the part about a Paterno museum off campus. That would never work.

 

[Madsol]

A lot of former players did come to Joe's defense. I'm talking about assistant coaches and staff.

I've not followed this as closely as some but I certainly have followed it. But I can't think of a single former player outside of Franco and Blackledge who has made a prolonged, public defense of Joe. I fully confess I may be missing some.

 

[MJG-90]

If Joe wanted Curley to bury it, why in the world would he have brought it to Curley in the first place? It defies logic.

Logically speaking, if Joe wanted to hide this, he would have advised Mike to forget what he saw and never bring it up again. THAT would make sense. Not forwarding the info to the AD and up to the President.

 

[denniskembala]

Yes, Joe Paterno all of a sudden, and out of the clear blue declared "My God, what a fool I've been. I must immediately report all that I have hidden for decades, and make things right".

Makes perfect sense.

If you're some idiot from Pitt, or an asshole. Take your pick.

 

[nittany119]

Joe took over a decent but not very prestigious program and turned it into one of the most successful programs of its times. Penn State was not considered any where close to a premier program in the 1950’s and early 1960’s. Joe changed all of that... certainly to a greater extent than many of the coaches recognized on the SI list.

The Paterno Library