So there is clearly something going on inside with the coaching staff

[uppermaclion]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

 

[bmejnes]

Franklin is coaching at PSU, not at Vandy anymore. The mediocre coaching will not cut it and he is (guessing) laying down the law behind closed doors. Step up your game or find another job!

 

[Nitt1300]

I think it's fairly clear what's happening, actually. Moorland wants his guy to coach the offensive line.

 

[step.eng69]

I think it's fairly clear what's happening, actually. Moorland wants his guy to coach the offensive line.

that immediately came to mind when I read Joe's background & style of coaching. Doubt he was comfortable with the OL's performance. Read an article from one of the posters that Joe hired one of our Grad Assist. from our 2014 team to coach OL at Fordham, last summer.

 

[PennStateNate]

Or Hand sees the writing on the wall..

 

[Eurotrash1]

Franklin is coaching at PSU, not at Vandy anymore. The mediocre coaching will not cut it and he is (guessing) laying down the law behind closed doors. Step up your game or find another job!

I doubt very much that is the conversation he had with Shoop. Nice spin though!

 

[Class of 67]

I've given this some thought with my blue and white glasses on. I think Franklin stayed loyal with some of his friends for as long as he could, but he's made the decision to take aggressive action and make changes. Assistants were fired or asked to go job hunting. I'm not sure where Shoop fits. His move may have been self-motivated with the sense that changes were coming and it best for all involved to move on. These changes may be good, as they insert more energy and new ideas to the program. I remain optimistic.

 

[PSU Dave]

Or Hand sees the writing on the wall..

 

[bxle]

I'm very comfortable with CJM having say in next year's O coaches. I hope that's what is taking place. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if two linemen coming off redshirt and two true frosh are in the mix for PT.

 

[EPC FAN]

I think it's fairly clear what's happening, actually. Moorland wants his guy to coach the offensive line.

After watching tape of the last two offensive lines, wouldn't you, if you were him?

 

[Countrylion]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

Most likely a combination of things. Shoop left for a different reason than Hand.

 

[sluggo72]

Or Hand sees the writing on the wall..

Or Hand figured it's easier to get a job when you have a job

 

[Nitt1300]

After watching tape of the last two offensive lines, wouldn't you, if you were him?

probably

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

If I'm here and you're here doesn't that make it our time?

 

[UPitt '89]

 

[bxle]

Or Hand sees the writing on the wall..

Handwriting?

 

[Nitwit]

Maybe Hand wanted the OC job, and when he saw how that went he figured his path was better elsewhere. With Moorhead coming in, I think it's important that the OL coach be committed to the same system, and coach the OL to be compatible with it. I think this may benefit PSU, but certainly lots of changes now. But as we see Franklin's players emerging, this is as good a time as any to rework things. 2016 could be a real transition year. New QB, new OC, new OL coach. We needed some changes.

 

[EPC FAN]

Go home, Pitt boy. Since 1966, you've had 16 different head coaches. I used 1966, because the guy you morons hate so irrationally, was hired as head coach at Penn State, while some guy named Dave Hart was hired by Pitt. Spin that one.

 

[danvillenit]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

I think it's the shakeout after having essentially his entire staff follow him from Vandy. Some won't cut it on a bigger stage (Donovan), some won't feel it is meeting their career goals or family won't adjust (Shoop), and some are a combo of both (Hand). It wasn't realistic that they were all going want or be able to stay at PSU so after two years the shake up is happening. I think it's a good thing overall.

 

[Lion84]

That's about as dumb as you bragging about your attendance versus PSU - the key to trolling is if you are actually better at something not worse than the other school. Hard to find at Pitt I grant you.

 

[N&B4PSU]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

Kind of a win win to go to a program where the HC is on the hot seat. If you perform well and the team responds with W's, the HC shares the glory and your career takes off... maybe brings you closer to getting a HC job yourself. OTOH, if things go in the dumper but YOUR part of the show is strong, might be they keep you on as HC. And if things really go in the dumper and everyone sucks... well, you didn't deserve the shot in the first place.

 

[lionlurker]

Funny thing about the Pitt guys, is that when our coaches get pushed out, they go to Auburn. When Pitt's coaches get pushed out, they go to Kutztown or Slippery Rock.

 

[Evan Ceg]

If Herb Hand is a bad OL coach, Malzahn would not want him. They don't have much patience for mediocrity at a place like Auburn. I don't think we got a fair read on Hand given the scholarship and depth situation with the O-Line.

Nevertheless, Hand is probably more comfortable working with Malzahn, with whom he coached at Tulsa, than with Moorhead, and that's fine. If Auburn has a bounce-back year, and they probably will, Malzahn might be NFL-bound and then Hand might have college coordinator or NFL assistant opportunities.

There are lots of quality OL coaching candidates out there. Certainly, the next guy must be comfortable with Moorhead. Tyler Bowen has already been mentioned and if Moorhead wants him, CJF should give it serious consideration. But a guy like Jeff Stoutland, who coached at Michigan State, Miami (FL), Alabama (Saban) and most recently for Chip Kelly, is looking for a job, too. Just one example.

 

[NitNE73]

I still accept the premise that our O-line troubles were a direct result of sanctions and that Hand is a decent coach. Clearly he is a very good recruiter.

I think what we are seeing is proof that the Grand Experiment ended in 2009. Paterno's staff was known for its loyalty to Joe so turnover was always minimal. The school benefited from that loyalty by being able to operate on the conservative side with payroll. We are living in a different time now, and I think that we are still coming to grips with our future, as cast by those wonderful people who brought you Judge Freeh. I suspect fewer than 10% of the D1 coaches today have the longevity of Paterno's guys.

 

[acg116]

If Herb Hand is a bad OL coach, Malzahn would not want him. They don't have much patience for mediocrity at a place like Auburn. I don't think we got a fair read on Hand given the scholarship and depth situation with the O-Line.

Nevertheless, Hand is probably more comfortable working with Malzahn, with whom he coached at Tulsa, than with Moorhead, and that's fine. If Auburn has a bounce-back year, and they probably will, Malzahn might be NFL-bound and then Hand might have college coordinator or NFL assistant opportunities.

There are lots of quality OL coaching candidates out there. Certainly, the next guy must be comfortable with Moorhead. Tyler Bowen has already been mentioned and if Moorhead wants him, CJF should give it serious consideration. But a guy like Jeff Stoutland, who coached at Michigan State, Miami (FL), Alabama (Saban) and most recently for Chip Kelly, is looking for a job, too. Just one example.

Can't imagine that even if gus wins the MNC, he'll be up for an NFL gig.

 

[psudsl08]

Hand was on the hot seat here in 2016. He will get a fresh start with greater job security at a school that currently has more talent.

 

[mmp121]

Nice find Evan! I can get behind a guy like Jeff Stoutland. NFL, SEC, ACC & B1G experience.

CJF is your reading this, give this man a call!

21Guns will be waiting @ the airport to report his arrival!

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Have no problem with Franklin getting guys in if he feels they are better...it's his ass in the long run and he needs to make sure he is doing the right thing. Let's see how Shoop and Hand do next year before we make any decisions. It could be that CJF knows more than anyone on this board.

 

[Eurotrash1]

I think way too many people are trying to spin this one direction or the other. There is nothing to spin. Coaches now are very nomadic. Moving for opportunities, for money, location, upward mobility. Trying to project their motivation without knowledge of their personal reasons is silly. We were spoiled with Joe. Just wish these guys luck and it's next man up. CJF will hire good coaches or it will be next man up again.

 

[Evan Ceg]

Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. That's the way I feel about the mutual loyalty of Joe and his assistants. Coaching staff continuity is definitely an asset until complacency and staleness set in. I wish Joe had been a lot less loyal to Sandusky, who he apparently never liked and "fired" several times, only to cool down and reconsider. And Sandusky was on his staff 30+ years!

Coaching changes aren't really the proof that the Grand Experiment is kaput. Proof would be paying the players (over or under the table) and becoming indifferent to their academic progress. Proof would also be having no patience with the Penn State coach when he doesn't promptly produce W-L records that stoke the fans' egos.

 

[mmp121]

Have no problem with Franklin getting guys in if he feels they are better...it's his ass in the long run and he needs to make sure he is doing the right thing. Let's see how Shoop and Hand do next year before we make any decisions. It could be that CJF knows more than anyone on this board.

It damn well better be that CJF knows more than anyone on this board about PSU football!!!

 

[danvillenit]

Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. That's the way I feel about the mutual loyalty of Joe and his assistants. Coaching staff continuity is definitely an asset until complacency and staleness set in. I wish Joe had been a lot less loyal to Sandusky, who he apparently never liked and "fired" several times, only to cool down and reconsider. And Sandusky was on his staff 30+ years!

Coaching changes aren't really the proof that the Grand Experiment is kaput. Proof would be paying the players (over or under the table) and becoming indifferent to their academic progress. Proof would also having no patience with the Penn State coach when he doesn't promptly produce W-L records that stoke the fans' egos.

The Grand Experiment had nothing to do with coaching stability. It had nothing to do with coaches period. It was about having success on the field with true student athletes.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Couldn't it simply be that a guy like Shoop was offered more money, or perhaps perceived a better opportunity for career advancement by moving to Tennessee, whether that perception was accurate or not?

Shoop got himself a big raise, I believe. But look at what Dave Aranda did for himself by moving from Wiscy to LSU. He got a 3 year contract from the Tigers that pays him a cool $1,300,000 per year to be their DC. Isn't that roughly twice what Shoop will be making? Aranda's salary at Wiscy was apparently $522 per year.

This is a business, and these coaches are nomads in search of the big payoff.

 

[NitNE73]

The Grand Experiment had nothing to do with coaching stability. It had nothing to do with coaches period. It was about having success on the field with true student athletes.

It was the other way around. Coaching stability was a byproduct of the success on the field and true student athletes. And of Joe's personal influence.

 

[mmp121]

Couldn't it simply be that a guy like Shoop was offered more money, or perhaps perceived a better opportunity for career advancement by moving to Tennessee, whether that perception was accurate or not?

Shoop got himself a big raise, I believe. But look at what Dave Aranda did for himself by moving from Wiscy to LSU. He got a 3 year contract from the Tigers that pays him a cool $1,300,000 per year to be their DC. Isn't that roughly twice what Shoop will be making? Aranda's salary at Wiscy was apparently $522 per year.

This is a business, and these coaches are nomads in search of the big payoff.

Shoop was making ~1MM @ PSU after he flirted with LSU last year.

He is now making ~1.15MM (1,150,000) @ Tennessee with a 3 year contract.

I don't know how you arrived at 1.3MM being twice 1.15MM.

Aranda nearly tripled HIS salary from WISCY, but Shoop didn't increase his salary much. On top of the marginal salary increase, Shoop is 'on the hook' to pay his $800k buyout from PSU.

I'd say from a pure #'s perspective Aranda did MUCH better than Shoop at selling himself. How good was Wicy's D last year?

 

[StinkStankStunk]

.

I don't know how you arrived at 1.3MM being twice 1.15MM.

Too much time out west, breathing the same air as Tsunami Barbour?


I kid, Lafayette....I kid

 

[lyndj]

I doubt very much that is the conversation he had with Shoop. Nice spin though!

No, I think the conversation with Shoop was "we can't pay you anymore $$ after I went to bat for you just last year. If your family is happier in TN and you think you have a shot at HC, then you should go". No fuss, no muss.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Go home, Pitt boy. Since 1966, you've had 16 different head coaches. I used 1966, because the guy you morons hate so irrationally, was hired as head coach at Penn State, while some guy named Dave Hart was hired by Pitt. Spin that one.

Laying down the LAW! By the way, which number is bigger? Number of Pitt head coaches? Or number of Pitt wins against Joe Paterno from 1966-2011?

 

[LionwiththeDevil]

Almost every big time program has staff turnover every year. It's the same with the big business. Anything over a few years at the same place and your labeled as "content".

 

[fairgambit]

Very nice, but typically when we proudly show our toys here they go over 120 MPH.