So there is clearly something going on inside with the coaching staff

[NittanyOpp]

The offense stunk, worst I have seen, literally pulled hair out weekly...the O-line was the biggest factor outside of play calling. Something had to happen. I think Franklin loves Hand, just had to do it this way. Hand got off the hook too easy from the masses, unlike Donovan. It was pathetic.

Franklin needs to pull up his big boy pants and make tough decisions. You are either in or out.

The Auburn job is no more secure than the PSU job, Malzahn is on the hot seat. Malzahn is also Hand's best friend.

Pry is Franklin's best friend, sure he did not mind one bit handing him job if Shoop so happened to leave, probably encouraged it as Franklin was so emotional talking about Pry leaving for Ga Southern job he almost cried in presser.

 

[Blueblood4eva]

CJF fired Donovan and went outside for an OC. He did what was necessary and knew full well that there would be bruised egos. These guys were at Vanderbilt and took one look at PSU and all of them thought they died and went to heaven. They road CJF'S coat tails and are now cashing in with jobs at big time programs. Good for them and good for Penn State that our head coach is "all in" at PSU and his actions match his rhetoric. One of the best pieces of advice I received early in life was the phrase, "familiarity breeds contempt". Some of that existing here is understandable, and we should pay it no mind. Coach Franklin has declared, 'damn the torpedo's'. I applaud him for that. I no longer question if he had what it took to do it!

 

[danvillenit]

CJF fired Donovan and went outside for an OC. He did what was necessary and knew full well that there would be bruised egos. These guys were at Vanderbilt and took one look at PSU and all of them thought they died and went to heaven. They road CJF'S coat tails and are now cashing in with jobs at big time programs. Good for them and good for Penn State that our head coach is "all in" at PSU and his actions match his rhetoric. One of the best pieces of advice I received early in life was the phrase, "familiarity breeds contempt". Some of that existing here is understandable, and we should pay it no mind. Coach Franklin has declared, 'damn the torpedo's'. I applaud him for that. I no longer question if he had what it took to do it!

It was only a matter of time. Either Franklin is a big time coach or he isn't. I think he thought/hoped he could win with his Vanderbilt staff at PSU but now realizes he can not and is making the changes.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Arguably Hand took a big step forward if he has championship expectations/aspirations

Auburn won the national championship in 2010 and lost the championship game in 2013

Sad to say but the last time Penn State played for the championship was Jan 2, 1987 -- a massive 29 years ago

 

[Locolion]

If I'm here and you're here doesn't that make it our time?

Too funny! You d@ck!

 

[AWS1022]

Arguably Hand took a big step forward if he has championship expectations/aspirations

Auburn won the national championship in 2010 and lost the championship game in 2013

Sad to say but the last time Penn State played for the championship was Jan 2, 1987 -- a massive 29 years ago

So Auburn is going to win the championship in spite of Hand? Even if you're "closer" as you said, you still have to be able to coach. I'm afraid this wasn't an upgrade for Auburn.

 

[Locolion]

Arguably Hand took a big step forward if he has championship expectations/aspirations

Auburn won the national championship in 2010 and lost the championship game in 2013

Sad to say but the last time Penn State played for the championship was Jan 2, 1987 -- a massive 29 years ago

Many on this board would argue with that line of thinking - championships were doled by post-bowl votes. NY Times said we won in 1994. And, if there were playoffs at the below timing, we'd have been in it the years M Rob played ('05?, lost one game by ref robbery vs MI) and when Daryl Clark played ('08?). I am the worst at remembering years things occurred.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

Is it a fact that Shoops family never came to State College with him? I thought his family stayed in Nashville...maybe thats why he took the UT job. Happy wife....happy life...

 

[ILLINOISLION]

After the last two years of total mediorocrity I'd be a lot more worried if everything was status quo with everybody loving and hugging each other.

ENOUGH of the excuses.....other teams have changes in coaching staff, changes in systems, injuries, different challenges. The sanctions are in the past, not in our present and certainly not in our future.

2016: Time to put up and to impose some shut up on the 12 teams on our schedule. Next coach up, next player up!

 

[GregInPitt]

There are lots of variables and factors we don't know. Look at Hand. He is taking a lateral move to replace someone that left. Why would he do that? Is it a better program? Wouldn't most people say that Auburn and PSU are pretty comparable in football program prestige and likely salary? Well the guy that was the OL coach at Auburn (before Hand) left for a lateral move to Cincy!!!! Everyone here would likely agree that is a move down. Was he forced out? Was Hand forced out? Did CJF even try and keep him, or did he look at this as an opportunity to upgrade the coach at a position that needs a jump start? Who knows.

What we do know is
1. that our OL sucked, albeit with less that normal major college talent and depth.
2. that we will have above average OL talent on the roster that should be ready by 2017 or 2018
3. and that CJF wants to win as much as we do so he'll have an OL coach that will help our OL kids mature and grow into an improved OL.....

 

[Cvilleguy12]

Is it a fact that Shoops family never came to State College with him? I thought his family stayed in Nashville...maybe thats why he took the UT job. Happy wife....happy life...

Hands family never moved.

 

[psulongago]

Fast

Fast Times at Ridgemont - cracked me up - like George Costanza, leaving on a high note. Good Nite, watching the game.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

Yeah the offense was horrible. The OL gave up over 80 sacks the last 2 years. Changes are being made. Hand is lucky he landed on his feet...good for him.

 

[trz103]

Whether or not he deserved it (he did) this exodus points to how the handling of firing Donovan went down it appears

 

[VaNtyLion]

Whether or not he deserved it (he did) this exodus points to how the handling of firing Donovan went down it appears

Or it just points to one man trying to take a faster route to a HC position and another taking an opportunity to reunite with his best friend.

I find the 'loyalty' argument on both sides comical. Shoop and Hand each spent the past 5 years with Franklin. If each of those 5 years were at PSU, it would be a lifetime given how much turnover most programs have today.

 

[Eurotrash1]

No, I think the conversation with Shoop was "we can't pay you anymore $$ after I went to bat for you just last year. If your family is happier in TN and you think you have a shot at HC, then you should go". No fuss, no muss.

I don't agree. The difference in money was minescule. We would have gladly paid it to insure the recruiting class stayed and we had continuity on the staff. You can't blame a coach for finding out his market value. They really are no different than you or I. If the guy across the street offered you more money than you were making..wouldn't you expect your employer to match it if they really liked your work?

 

[AWS1022]

I don't agree. The difference in money was minescule. We would have gladly paid it to insure the recruiting class stayed and we had continuity on the staff. You can't blame a coach for finding out his market value. They really are no different than you or I. If the guy across the street offered you more money than you were making..wouldn't you expect your employer to match it if they really liked your work?

Not every year.

 

[VaNtyLion]

I don't agree. The difference in money was minescule. We would have gladly paid it to insure the recruiting class stayed and we had continuity on the staff. You can't blame a coach for finding out his market value. They really are no different than you or I. If the guy across the street offered you more money than you were making..wouldn't you expect your employer to match it if they really liked your work?

You're thinking more short term than mid range or long term. Could PSU have matched Shoop's salary demands? Sure.

But step back and look at the situation facing both men:

Shoop - wants to be a head coach again and has the talent and depth at UT to put himself square in the spotlight if he succeeds now. Shoop sees UT for what it is - a shorter stepping stone to HC than working at PSU which is still in rebuilding mode an has our hands full.

Franklin - Knows Shoop's ambitions full well and has a coach in Pry that has in many ways been molded by Shoop while working alongside him for 5 years. Pry has already interviewed for HC position and is not likely to stay on as a position coach/co coordinator much longer.

Shoop spent more time as Franklin's DC than he did in any prior role in his 25+ years of coaching. If anyone thinks this was a "falling out" after Shoop turned down LSU last year and Auburn this year, give it up.

 

[canuckhal]

I don't agree. The difference in money was minescule. We would have gladly paid it to insure the recruiting class stayed and we had continuity on the staff. You can't blame a coach for finding out his market value. They really are no different than you or I. If the guy across the street offered you more money than you were making..wouldn't you expect your employer to match it if they really liked your work?

My experience is that you have two points of leverage in contract negotiations. 1) when you are first hired, especially if you currently have a job or another offer. 2) when you have another job offer. If you try to do 2 again in a short period of time, you better be willing to take it because it is unlikely that your employer will negotiate and will most likely let you walk. I think this is what happened in Shoop's case, but he wanted to go to TN. Not sure about Hand aside that it is one of his best friends whom he had success with in the past and his family might move with him. Reports are that Hand's family did not move to S.C.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Shoop was making ~1MM @ PSU after he flirted with LSU last year.

He is now making ~1.15MM (1,150,000) @ Tennessee with a 3 year contract.

I don't know how you arrived at 1.3MM being twice 1.15MM.

Aranda nearly tripled HIS salary from WISCY, but Shoop didn't increase his salary much. On top of the marginal salary increase, Shoop is 'on the hook' to pay his $800k buyout from PSU.

I'd say from a pure #'s perspective Aranda did MUCH better than Shoop at selling himself. How good was Wicy's D last year?

My mistake, then. I did not know Shoop was making anywhere close to that much at PSU. I thought he was around $650,000 to $700,000. Those are extremely high coordinator salaries.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I think it's fairly clear what's happening, actually. Moorland wants his guy to coach the offensive line.

Is General West-Moorland now one of our coaches.... seems he has been out of the loop for a while.
geez....

 

[Obliviax]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

I am not sure....if you have a good year, you hope for a raise or upgrade (HC or Cord). If you have a bad year you are in danger of being fired.

Hand has a new boss and one that he isn't familiar with. Seems to me they left Hand off the list of coaches before he was officially off to Auburn. Which means, between he and the OC, he was gone before he accepted another position. Who quit on who? Anybody's guess.

 

[BlueBand]

Hand has a new boss and one that he isn't familiar with. Seems to me they left Hand off the list of coaches before he was officially off to Auburn. Which means, between he and the OC, he was gone before he accepted another position. Who quit on who? Anybody's guess.

Huh? Hand's new boss is his best friend whom he worked with at Tulsa, quite successfully. What "list" was he left off of?

 

[Obliviax]

Huh? Hand's new boss is his best friend whom he worked with at Tulsa, quite successfully. What "list" was he left off of?

JoeMo is Hands best friend? Haven't heard that and find it hard to believe

 

[Nitt1300]

JoeMo is Hands best friend? Haven't heard that and find it hard to believe

Gus, not JoeMo

 

[Cvilleguy12]

Huh? Hand's new boss is his best friend whom he worked with at Tulsa, quite successfully. What "list" was he left off of?

When the list of new titles came out Hand did not get one.

 

[BlueBand]

When the list of new titles came out Hand did not get one.

Not everyone got a new title.

 

[psualum10]

Lol at some of these posts ...

Donovan - Wasn't good at his job and never has been. CJF won with average offense and good defense at Vanderbilt and that won't cut it here especially when he has more talent than at VU so he was let go

Shoop - Two parter ... A) family (aka wife) loves living in Tennessee and was hoping to get the Vanderbilt job this year. When that didn't become open yet the Tennessee one did he jumped at it in addition B) Tennessee has a good shot at winning the SEC East next year and it gives him a much better shot to become a HC again if he can come in and make Tennessee good again

Hand - The scheme that he runs and the scheme that Moorhead runs doesn't mesh well so when Joe was brought in, the writing was on the wall and he found a job where he could work with a friend of his. Hand isn't a bad coach at all even though most don't believe it looking at the last two years. There is minimal talent on the current OL although there is more coming even this year (see RS freshmen) but the fact that the blocking schemes both use aren't in line with each other isn't going to help our offense going forward. Look to us hiring an OL coach who's more in line with Moorhead's philosophy

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Lol at some of these posts ...

Donovan - Wasn't good at his job and never has been. CJF won with average offense and good defense at Vanderbilt and that won't cut it here especially when he has more talent than at VU so he was let go

Shoop - Two parter ... A) family (aka wife) loves living in Tennessee and was hoping to get the Vanderbilt job this year. When that didn't become open yet the Tennessee one did he jumped at it in addition B) Tennessee has a good shot at winning the SEC East next year and it gives him a much better shot to become a HC again if he can come in and make Tennessee good again

Hand - The scheme that he runs and the scheme that Moorhead runs doesn't mesh well so when Joe was brought in, the writing was on the wall and he found a job where he could work with a friend of his. Hand isn't a bad coach at all even though most don't believe it looking at the last two years. There is minimal talent on the current OL although there is more coming even this year (see RS freshmen) but the fact that the blocking schemes both use aren't in line with each other isn't going to help our offense going forward. Look to us hiring an OL coach who's more in line with Moorhead's philosophy

^^^^^ I may not agree with 100% of it (though I certainly agree with at least 90%+)....but this may be the most rational, logical, reasoned post over these recent weeks of Drama-Queen blather wrt the assistant coaching changes.

 

[Nitt1300]

^^^^^ I may not agree with 100% of it (though I certainly agree with at least 90%+)....but this may be the most rational, logical, reasoned post over these recent weeks of Drama-Queen blather wrt the assistant coaching changes.

Well, I agree with him 110%, so between us it's 100%

 

[Ray-Ray]

That's about as dumb as you bragging about your attendance versus PSU - the key to trolling is if you are actually better at something not worse than the other school. Hard to find at Pitt I grant you.

Well considering your statement, if you look at the past few years of incoming freshmen at both schools, Pitt is getting a better student academically now than Penn State. Better SAT, ACT scores, higher GPA and higher percentage of students in top 10% of their classes. All you have to do to verify is go to www.collegeboard.org. Pretty easy to find the facts. Composite ACT score over 30 Pitt 40%, PSU 21%, Scored over 600 on Math SAT Pitt 80%, PSU 61%, over 600 on Reading SAT Pitt 68% PSU 39%, high school GPA over 3.75 Pitt 74%, PSU 35%. They are both great schools but Pitt has really upped their game getting excellent students to enroll.

 

[ApexLion]

I'm hoping it is Franklin laying down the law(I said it before, the worst thing to do is be BFF's with your employees when you are the boss). That to me would be good. The offense sucked and the Oline was a major issue, so maybe they were told. That's what I hope.

The downside is if everyone is jumping ship because the ship is sinking. I tend to think my first point given how JF fired Donovan(and I didn't think that would happen). Something is clearly going on because Malzhan and to some degree Butch Jones have to at least be on the warm seat given what has been expected from those two programs.

Or one coach was fired and two are cashing in on their ability to win games at a battered, down and out program. But hey if you want to buy the sportswriter goober stories, knock yourself out. Reality is often less dramatic than we would like.

 

[PantherO]

Funny thing about the Pitt guys, is that when our coaches get pushed out, they go to Auburn. When Pitt's coaches get pushed out, they go to Kutztown or Slippery Rock.

or Georgia as is are most recent example

 

[JoeBatters1]

Frankly, assistant coaching changes are basically irrelevant as long as the head coach stays and you have confidence in his leadership to run the program. Regardless of any changes to the staff the only thing that matters right now is winning. It does appear that Franklin fully realizes this and that was one of the reasons he canned Donovan. I get the sense that Franklin is under more pressure to produce results immediately than some of us may be inclined to think. I think 2016 is a very important year for him.

 

[WPB_lion]

It was the other way around. Coaching stability was a byproduct of the success on the field and true student athletes. And of Joe's personal influence.

Joe took less money so his assistants could make more. PSU assistants were paid a lot and thus, unless they were offered a better job (i.e. linebacker coach to d coordinator) there was no reason to leave.

 

[royboy]

These last few years in the PSU football program have been very stressful -- sanctions, reduced roster, a continued false narrative of a cover-up of sex abuse, the passing of a legend, coaching changes, etc. For the players and coaches, they have been dog years -- each year seems like multiple years. It's not surprising that some want to escape when given the chance.

It'll be a while before some sense of normalcy returns. That said, I think CJF is the right guy for the job and is doing the single most important thing -- recruiting talented players who are a good fit for the program and the University.

 

[Nitt1300]

Frankly, assistant coaching changes are basically irrelevant as long as the head coach stays and you have confidence in his leadership to run the program. Regardless of any changes to the staff the only thing that matters right now is winning. It does appear that Franklin fully realizes this and that was one of the reasons he canned Donovan. I get the sense that Franklin is under more pressure to produce results immediately than some of us may be inclined to think. I think 2016 is a very important year for him.

I think he may be more driven to win than people realize. I doubt there is much external pressure yet (there will be in 2017 though). He's shown a toughness I wasn't sure he had until he fired Donovan.

 

[pandaczar12]

Well considering your statement, if you look at the past few years of incoming freshmen at both schools, Pitt is getting a better student academically now than Penn State. Better SAT, ACT scores, higher GPA and higher percentage of students in top 10% of their classes. All you have to do to verify is go to www.collegeboard.org. Pretty easy to find the facts. Composite ACT score over 30 Pitt 40%, PSU 21%, Scored over 600 on Math SAT Pitt 80%, PSU 61%, over 600 on Reading SAT Pitt 68% PSU 39%, high school GPA over 3.75 Pitt 74%, PSU 35%. They are both great schools but Pitt has really upped their game getting excellent students to enroll.

That's because Pitt puts a premium on admission statistics, and PSU does not. I know people who got denied acceptance to PSU main campus, who were offered a full ride to Pitt, because of amazing test scores. It's a pointless waste of money for Pitt, because PSU is still almost universally considered a better school. Not only are my PSU degrees more valuable than a Pitt degree, having the largest alumni association opens many doors for graduates. It's kinda sad to brag about admission statistics, when they aren't printed on your degree. All that really matters is how the world views your degree.

 

[lionlurker]

That's because Pitt puts a premium on admission statistics, and PSU does not. I know people who got denied acceptance to PSU main campus, who were offered a full ride to Pitt, because of amazing test scores. .

My own kid was one of them.

 

[psu7113]

Couldn't it simply be that a guy like Shoop was offered more money, or perhaps perceived a better opportunity for career advancement by moving to Tennessee, whether that perception was accurate or not?

Shoop got himself a big raise, I believe. But look at what Dave Aranda did for himself by moving from Wiscy to LSU. He got a 3 year contract from the Tigers that pays him a cool $1,300,000 per year to be their DC. Isn't that roughly twice what Shoop will be making? Aranda's salary at Wiscy was apparently $522 per year.

This is a business, and these coaches are nomads in search of the big payoff.

But he did not get a big raise. Only $150k.