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Takedown tactics for a guy on one knee?

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
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It seems wrestlers are so programed to set up a takedown through creating angles in tieups, with snaps, shucks, ducks and so on that when faced with a a guy on one knee, separated, everyone is bamboozled.

A couple of things seem certain: (1) both the need and ability to sprawl seem non-existent, do none is going to get trained underneath during an attack (2) mobility is significantly reduced, so you pretty much know where your opponent is and will be within the reaction time of a shot.
These two factors should have the other wrestler freer to be more aggressive

If the position becomes much more prevalent I suspect a recipe will be identified to counter the position, praying upon it's potential weaknesses.

Two tactics stand out to me, and I would love to see them in action to validate if they will be effective.

First - how about a blast double to that more stationary target. More of a tackle than a takedown. One would think the opportunity to counter throw from that position are lessened as well. I want that great a wrestler but the vision of fending off a blast from that position seems problematic.

Second - a sweep single to the outside posted foot, pretty much avoiding the defenses altogether. Mark Hall used to have that crazy baseball slide sweep the body outside while grabbing the ankle with both hands single that was a joy to watch.

Too bad we can't see Mesenbrink vs Angelo, as given a little time he will find out how to exploit him no doubt.

For all the bitching myself and others are doing about this position it may just be noone has cracked the code yet. In time the position may ultimately be exposed as one of weakness. I think this is possible. Drake gets away with it more than Angelo, and there to, opponents seem to be paralyzed lacking any idea of what to do. Let's hope more try, soon! Thoughts?
 
It should be stalling. But you can't let a guy work from space on one knee. You need to put hands on him to force him up with snaps, clubs, and pushes. This will make him come up. Blast doubles, blast body doubles will also make him think twice about going to a knee. But you also can't PLOTT straight forward and not know he is going to sweep a single. Also once you figure out which leg he likes to sweep to, you would also learn from that...
 
I'm not suggesting this is a great tactic, but if I was a coach and knew that one of my wrestlers was going to be facing one of those kids and that it might be problematic, I think I'd encourage them to circle into the center of the mat and to stand up and wait for the opponent to come to the center. EVERY SINGLE TIME. You drop to a knee, I'm going to dance in a circle back to the center of the mat, stand up straight and wait for you to join me on two legs. Otherwise, I'm not playing that game.
 
I'm not suggesting this is a great tactic, but if I was a coach and knew that one of my wrestlers was going to be facing one of those kids and that it might be problematic, I think I'd encourage them to circle into the center of the mat and to stand up and wait for the opponent to come to the center. EVERY SINGLE TIME. You drop to a knee, I'm going to dance in a circle back to the center of the mat, stand up straight and wait for you to join me on two legs. Otherwise, I'm not playing that game.
Especially when you have a guy who, as far as I've seen, has no mat wrestling skills.
 
I think if wrestling with one arm behind one’s back was seen as using superior tactics to shut down an opponent’s offense, I’ll try to not get too offended about wrestling from a knee.
It's not often I disagree with you mcpat, but I do on this.
ike broflovski revenge GIF by South Park


:p
 
It seems wrestlers are so programed to set up a takedown through creating angles in tieups, with snaps, shucks, ducks and so on that when faced with a a guy on one knee, separated, everyone is bamboozled.

A couple of things seem certain: (1) both the need and ability to sprawl seem non-existent, do none is going to get trained underneath during an attack (2) mobility is significantly reduced, so you pretty much know where your opponent is and will be within the reaction time of a shot.
These two factors should have the other wrestler freer to be more aggressive

If the position becomes much more prevalent I suspect a recipe will be identified to counter the position, praying upon it's potential weaknesses.

Two tactics stand out to me, and I would love to see them in action to validate if they will be effective.

First - how about a blast double to that more stationary target. More of a tackle than a takedown. One would think the opportunity to counter throw from that position are lessened as well. I want that great a wrestler but the vision of fending off a blast from that position seems problematic.

Second - a sweep single to the outside posted foot, pretty much avoiding the defenses altogether. Mark Hall used to have that crazy baseball slide sweep the body outside while grabbing the ankle with both hands single that was a joy to watch.

Too bad we can't see Mesenbrink vs Angelo, as given a little time he will find out how to exploit him no doubt.

For all the bitching myself and others are doing about this position it may just be noone has cracked the code yet. In time the position may ultimately be exposed as one of weakness. I think this is possible. Drake gets away with it more than Angelo, and there to, opponents seem to be paralyzed lacking any idea of what to do. Let's hope more try, soon! Thoughts?
To me, the blast double / football tackle seems like a good approach if you time it just as he's kneeling.
 
It seems wrestlers are so programed to set up a takedown through creating angles in tieups, with snaps, shucks, ducks and so on that when faced with a a guy on one knee, separated, everyone is bamboozled.

A couple of things seem certain: (1) both the need and ability to sprawl seem non-existent, do none is going to get trained underneath during an attack (2) mobility is significantly reduced, so you pretty much know where your opponent is and will be within the reaction time of a shot.
These two factors should have the other wrestler freer to be more aggressive

If the position becomes much more prevalent I suspect a recipe will be identified to counter the position, praying upon it's potential weaknesses.

Two tactics stand out to me, and I would love to see them in action to validate if they will be effective.

First - how about a blast double to that more stationary target. More of a tackle than a takedown. One would think the opportunity to counter throw from that position are lessened as well. I want that great a wrestler but the vision of fending off a blast from that position seems problematic.

Second - a sweep single to the outside posted foot, pretty much avoiding the defenses altogether. Mark Hall used to have that crazy baseball slide sweep the body outside while grabbing the ankle with both hands single that was a joy to watch.

Too bad we can't see Mesenbrink vs Angelo, as given a little time he will find out how to exploit him no doubt.

For all the bitching myself and others are doing about this position it may just be noone has cracked the code yet. In time the position may ultimately be exposed as one of weakness. I think this is possible. Drake gets away with it more than Angelo, and there to, opponents seem to be paralyzed lacking any idea of what to do. Let's hope more try, soon! Thoughts?

RBY used the Flying Squirrel.
 
How about just rush at him and tackle him to his back, channel your inner linebacker.

I don't know about that.... - the wrestler on one knee has the "lower leverage". In football (and wrestling) lower-leverage typically wins - which is why they are always saying that wrestlers usually make good Front 7 football players... they understand the importance of Center-of-Gravity and lower-leverage.
 
It isn't the knee as much as the retreat. Center, wait and prepare to attack.

Of course I watched a state semi-final OT match involving Eckloff. Eckloff always did that retreat and hit a slide by as the opponent stepped in and reached to tie. The other kid had a stall call from earlier and Eckloff kept retreating and the other kid centered and Eckloff never came away from the edge. The ref called a double stall giving the match to Eckloff. One of the dumbest calls I have ever seen at that level.
 
I don't know about that.... - the wrestler on one knee has the "lower leverage". In football (and wrestling) lower-leverage typically wins - which is why they are always saying that wrestlers usually make good Front 7 football players... they understand the importance of Center-of-Gravity and lower-leverage.

IOW, if you charge an elite wrestler in that position, they will lunge for your legs below your waist and use your momentum to roll you to the side... and end up on top of you.
 
I don't know about that.... - the wrestler on one knee has the "lower leverage". In football (and wrestling) lower-leverage typically wins - which is why they are always saying that wrestlers usually make good Front 7 football players... they understand the importance of Center-of-Gravity and lower-leverage.
True. If you can rush the guy really low this can work, but it's pretty hard to get to the level of a guy on one knee and still be in a position to drive someone off their base.
 
Brooks vs Valencia ... 6:20 mark

2023 Olympic Trials

But that was from a collar-tie where Valencia went to a knee... Brooks was using a series of head snap to force Valencia to change elevations with his upper-body and as he came up off of one of them, Brooks shot low below his shoulder-head height....

Simply charging somebody wrestling on one-knee "in space" (i.e., not in a collar-tie with you and there is a foot or two of space between you) will not work like this - the one kneed wrestler will drop his elevation as you come in and maintain the "lower leverage". The first thing Brooks did was engage the collar-tie to control Valencia's head-shoulder height and make him respond to the head snaps.

The OP is talking about a wrestler wrestling from one-knee at a distance "in-space", not this situation where Valencia dropped to a knee after being engaged in a collar-tie.
 
But that was from a collar-tie where Valencia went to a knee... Brooks was using a series of head snap to force Valencia to change elevations with his upper-body and as he came up off of one of them, Brooks shot low below his shoulder-head height....

Simply charging somebody wrestling on one-knee "in space" (i.e., not in a collar-tie with you and there is a foot or two of space between you) will not work like this - the one kneed wrestler will drop his elevation as you come in and maintain the "lower leverage". The first thing Brooks did was engage the collar-tie to control Valencia's head-shoulder height and make him respond to the head snaps.

The OP is talking about a wrestler wrestling from one-knee at a distance "in-space", not this situation where Valencia dropped to a knee after being engaged in a collar-tie.
Yeah, going to a knee while engaged in a tie up is not stalling the same way going to a knee just hanging out in your own little corner of the mat. Regardless, I don't fully agree with you about the leverage part because going to a knee limits your mobility some, too, so, yeah, you'll be lower, but that's the only important factor in this. The only way to see, though, is to try it in practice and see what happens and whether people can defeat it in live action or not, which I'm sure PSU is working on.
 
David Carr Link

If wrestling from space, a David Carr example

If wrestling from ties, do what Starocci did against Ferrari. He kept forward pressure, drove Ferrari backwards, got a stall point. By halfway through the first period, Ferrari was not on his knees much. Ferrari wrestling on a knee was not preventing Carter from getting a takedown. Starocci was in on Ferrari's legs three times. Crazy flexibility and a couple of roll throughs defended the potential takedowns.
 
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