Team is not yet ready
- Thread starter olelion
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Let's pretend for a second the team isn't "ready yet" just for the sake of argument. The reality is they don't have to be ready yet. They have, let's be real, 3 weeks to prepare for Ohio State and UMass is just going to be a basic/simple gameplan. They have to be ready on 10/21-no reason to believe they can't be
It thread like this that make ne wonder if people ever watch college football. You would think Penn State the only team that would struggle at times in a game. It like people think that other teams never struggle and win every game 56-0.
It's not about that. For example, Georgia struggles often but they've proven in the past they can overcome it. We haven't proven that yet. We'll done exactly what we should have through the first 5 games but it's okay to acknowledge improvement is needed. Even Georgia needs to improve if they're going to win a title and they don't have to deal with Ohio State and Michigan prior to the playoff.
I think the separation we have on this because we have people that are just happy winning games we should while another large group sees this as a 2 games season and will define everything on what we do against Ohio State and Michigan. 10-2 for me is the floor and we need to start to find a way to beat Ohio State and Michigan. I think we're closer and we've come a LONG way since 2021 but there's another level we need to get to and there's concerns through 5 games about what happens when we play a team actually capable of moving the ball. If Michigan or Ohio State score 17 can we score enough to beat them. We don't know yet.
Exactly! This was my point about ECU - scUM's running game struggled every bit as much as PSU's against ECU. So what, it says nothing - all teams have points in the season they don't play their best football. In addition, nobody has mentioned OL starter Nelson going down in the first series and not playing the rest of the day - losing a starting Guard can cause a major disruption for your running game.
This season clearly comes down to two games and we all know those two. Lose both and the season is a failure, no other way to look at it. We have to show the ability to beat either OSU or Michigan or both. It is not wait till next year.
Win one, lose one. Okay very good season and making progress. If that results in a playoff appearance all the better but at least we beat one of them when they were a top 4 team.
If we win both, well one of the best PSU seasons in decades and we can say the program has arrived. This assumes we take care of business in the B10 championship and go to the playoff.
Both of these games will be close. With OSU, do we have the mental fortitude to go in there and finally snatch a win? Allar has to play well and the O-Line needs to be solid. Also can't have McCord playing the game of his life.
For scUM, something tells me, WATCH OUT FOR THE McCARTHY SCRAMBLE!! Cannot let that guy burn us with his legs for killer 3rd down conversions. D line needs to be stout. Of course, Allar needs to be very good and the O-Line needs to freakin' block. Home field will be HUGE in this one.
The problem is many here disagree with this. They'll claim 10-2 is an amazing season and how great a meaningless bowl game is. At least when the playoff expands to 12 it will be tougher to claim anything short of the playoff is a good season.
Truthfully, if we go 11-1 and get left out it's still a great season with a dumb playoff set up--though many here don't want the playoff to expand so...
Any logical, discerning PSU fan would agree that losing to both of those two teams is a bust of a season. The ones who think winning the Capital One Bowl is a great successful season have no clue. Think about it, do you really think Franklin will be satisfied with that? If he is then he should be fired.
Once the playoff goes to 12 we need to make it every year or at a bare minimum 4 out of 5 years.
The QB scramble is an issue. As great as the defense is playing, my lone criticism is that our lane integrity seems to be inconsistent at times allowing the QB or RBs to sneak through the initial wave of pressure. We need to maintain pressure, but also keep him in in the middle of the collapsing pocket.
Yep, you know it is not good when NW is exposing us on the QB scramble. We were lucky he slid 3 inches prior to the 1st down on that series.
Damn troublemaker...
Joking aside, it's not necessary to take a reasonable critique of the offense as a personal insult. I mean, disagree with it, fine. But no need to take it personally. That's as bad as the other familiar extreme where fans are handwringing and screaming for Franklin's head after a bad quarter.
That said, I'm not ready to agree with your OP that we can't beat the Big-2. I think we can and we will...well at least one of them anyway. I mean, we are 5-0 after all, and none of the final scores have been close.
Meanwhile, Franklin himself and a couple key players apparently feel the O has room for improvement. I base that on a headline and this opening paragraph on Pennlive today: >>Drew Allar, Nick Singleton and James Franklin recognized after the Northwestern win that there's plenty of work to do offensively.<< The story itself is behind a paywall, and I'm not forking over money to read it.
I'm pessimistically optimistic. I can recall 4 teams since 78 that were undefeated untied prior to the bowl. I was born in 63 so I didn't follow PSU until a little older. Dad was a Reds fan and I first watched CFB at age ten and liked OSU because of Archie Griffin I think.Damn troublemaker...
Joking aside, it's not necessary to take a reasonable critique of the offense as a personal insult. I mean, disagree with it, fine. But no need to take it personally. That's as bad as the other familiar extreme where fans are handwringing and screaming for Franklin's head after a bad quarter.
That said, I'm not ready to agree with your OP that we can't beat the Big-2. I think we can and we will...well at least one of them anyway. I mean, we are 5-0 after all, and none of the final scores have been close.
Meanwhile, Franklin himself and a couple key players apparently feel the O has room for improvement. I base that on a headline and this opening paragraph on Pennlive today: >>Drew Allar, Nick Singleton and James Franklin recognized after the Northwestern win that there's plenty of work to do offensively.<< The story itself is behind a paywall, and I'm not forking over money to read it.
What I'm getting at is we are seldom undefeated and have only been a serious contender less than 2 handfuls since 1978. So I take the games as they come, it's not like I don't get excited or upset with a loss, more like I accept things as they come. But when Iook at this team I'm starting to wonder if it might be a special year? even if we don't win the title we are now serious contenders.
Serious enough I see us competing at a high level going forward.
Here's a quiz for you, what was the biggest margin of victory for PSU in the first six games in 1985? I know that's 38 years ago, but victories count more than any other stat. We have to win and our results against the first five teams mean nothing when we face the obvious good teams like OSU and Michigan. We still have to play them and it's that day that counts, not our resume.
Yup, I take your point.
In the old days, you could win a national championship with a dominating defense and a guy like John Shaffer at QB. (I mean, I loved John Shaffer then and love him now but in college football 2023 he wouldn't make the Penn State team.)
Don't get me wrong: it's great to have a dominating defense, but the famous old line that defenses win championships no longer applies. In fact, the way the game is played today, you could make the case that offenses win championships. Or at minimum, you need a productive offense and high-performing QB to seriously compete for one.
I do agree, however a really good defense does help, a lot. defense is offense and vice versa. dramatic changes in field position cause pressure on the opposing D. High powered offenses can stress opposing offenses into mistakes but tire your own D.
All money ball aside, getting points, first downs, holding the ball AND scoring will always be in style. Right now I do not know why they aren't as explosives as last year. Possible are WR corps isn't as good and are more possession types aside from Smith. Maybe we miss blocking from Strange? Clifford's ability to run changed how defenses play us then compared to now.
That all might be the issue, I do not know but I know we've won every game by more than the spread. All those smart MIT stat guys in Vegas and their algorithms are off just a teeny bit. We need to win and odds are we will not be undefeated. Since 1982 PSU has had two undefeated untied teams and 4 1 loss teams. That is 6 seasons in over 40 seasons. So I do not stress over this and watch the games.
Because odds are we are suffering 1 loss at a minimum, possibly 2. I just hope for the best. People confuse hope with logic, they're different things.
It's as simple as this, "If you ain't cheating, you're not winning"
Who said that?
Who said that?
If we are 3rd best in the BTE (i.e. 0-2,) but we win our bowl NY6 game against as-projected Alabama that would be a good season. However, if we lose 41-17 against Michigan then that would be disastrous.
Who cares about the bowl game even a NY6 bowl game if we are 0-2 vs OSU and Michigan. Of course, I want us to beat Bama in whatever NY6 game but in the big picture the season will go down as a disappointment.
See--that's where this board is split. Losing to both and going to a NY6 game again isn't a step forward. Maybe if both losses are very close I might see if differently but we have to beat one of them IMO for it be progress.
Not saying your view is wrong--just perfectly illustrates the divide.
You must be disappointed a lot because psu hasn't won a title since the 86 season. Well 94 was sooner and arguably a title worthy team.
Without question. But, as you know on this board...a select few think going 0-2 vs UM and OSU is fine...especially if we win our bowl game vs fill in the blank. We are PSU...not some wannabe program. Kraft has said it multiple times...his goal is to win championships for all the sports...certainly a herculean task. But, I love his expectations, and they certainly don't align with some on this board who think being 'almost, but not quite' is just fine.
PSU went 1-1 against the other 2 in 2016, 2017, 2019 and 2020 (0-2 last 2 years but PSU was predicted to do much worse than they did last year - started the season unranked and predicted to lose at least 5 games by most), so some of the always-negative loudmouths are overstating their case in regards to PSU always going 0-2 in these games. The reality is that when you have three of all-time Top 7 programs in the same Division playing each other every year, you're going to see a lot of 11-1 and 10-2 seasons even when you finish Top 10. Hard to call a Top 10 Season with a NY6 Bowl Win a "complete failure", but the people saying this are not really PSU fans and are actually posing trolls. The new, more legitimate, playoff structure will fix much of this - the reality is, if PSU wins 10 games and makes the new playoff structure, it is hard not to say it was an extremely successful year (especially if they win at least one game in new playoff). It is very difficult to go undefeated or even 1-loss through a full season and win a National Championship (even more so with new playoff structure - you aren't going to see that many 15-0 National Champion Playoff Winners). The always-negative loudmouth posing-trolls are such laughable tools.
When we have the horses that we do then this is a reasonable expectation. Rarely since '94 have we assembled a team like this with a very good QB so in some random past year like 2004, it would not be an appropriate expectation to reach the BCS game. But in 2005 and 2008 as the season progressed, I was disappointed we were not in the BCS. Although if scUM had not won on the last play in '05 and we went undefeated we would have incredibly been shut out again for the NC despite an undefeated season.
Somehow playing a down Bama team and beating them in a consolation bowl is supposed to make me feel better for getting beaten by OSU and Mich again? Nope.
I mean I don't care about bowls at all if they're not part of the playoff but some do...no idea why but they do.
I can see beating someone like Bama in a meaningless bowl can make you feel good for a little while as therapy for the '79 Sugar Bowl. Soon thereafter however, reality would set in that we are a third place team that can't beat #1 or #2 in our conference.
Why don't you get a different hobby then. Psu hasn't even undefeated for 29 years. It's not a common thing.
Find something else to do, you'll be a lot happier.
There are many big programs or blue bloods that haven't been undefeated for decades...but those fan bases can't aspire and expect more? I can still enjoy a season while still knowing that the ultimate goals weren't reached...but won't be satisfied. That is the difference where I think he (and myself) are getting at. Some on here are satisfied finishing 3rd in the division and maxing out at 10 win regular seasons....not me. Doesn't mean I'm wrong or right. Just how I feel.
I don't think the goal is to go undefeated but it's also NOT FUN to be the third team in your division. And Penn State hasn't been where they needed to be for a long time for many different reasons. Just like Bama prior to Saban or Georgia prior to Smart.
Totally agree about not fun being 3rd..but why isn't the goal to be undefeated? Or at the very least, make the playoffs? Which in its current format, you can't have more than one loss. So, in other words, have an 11 win regular season (something JF has never done). Eventually you have to breakthrough as a blue blood...Michigan finally did after years of being stuck...UGA same thing as they were Bama's little brother....I mean Kraft has made his expectations known from day one. I guess most on this site have lower expectations, which is fine. Doesn't make them wrong. I just don't aspire to finish 3rd and 10-2 every year.
I never said we couldn't beat them. I said we weren't ready and honestly this past Saturday they weren't. What I didn't realize at the time was that it was a typical PSU/Northwestern gameDamn troublemaker...
Joking aside, it's not necessary to take a reasonable critique of the offense as a personal insult. I mean, disagree with it, fine. But no need to take it personally. That's as bad as the other familiar extreme where fans are handwringing and screaming for Franklin's head after a bad quarter.
That said, I'm not ready to agree with your OP that we can't beat the Big-2. I think we can and we will...well at least one of them anyway. I mean, we are 5-0 after all, and none of the final scores have been close.
Meanwhile, Franklin himself and a couple key players apparently feel the O has room for improvement. I base that on a headline and this opening paragraph on Pennlive today: >>Drew Allar, Nick Singleton and James Franklin recognized after the Northwestern win that there's plenty of work to do offensively.<< The story itself is behind a paywall, and I'm not forking over money to read it.
The goal is to make the playoffs--I don't think "undefeated" should ever be a goal as there's too many variables. That's why a four team playoff is insufficient and probably needs to be at least 16 (ideally 24) but 12 helps solve for that problem.
Once the playoffs expand anything short of making the playoffs 4 out of 5 years should result in us finding a new coach. Just like it will at Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, Bama, etc. Expectations are way too low for this kind of a program IMO
This is a well reasoned and insightful post. Wish I’d thought of it myself. If you don’t mind, in a couple of weeks, I’m going to repost it under my screen name. Since we all just argue endlessly, probably without even evaluating or even reading opposing perspectives, no one will notice. Thank you for your expected cooperation.
Aspire, expect more? Every single program wants to win every single game. And for all the "blue bloods" out there and newer top level teams that means we'll have a championship every 30 years or so if we average it out.
"The other team is trying too", George Paterno
And it doesn't make you right or wrong, it constantly whining about does nothing .
Who said winning a title is the only satisfactory outcome? I think making the playoffs...and doing so multiple times moving forward is the goal...b/c that allows you to play for a title. It has to start there.
It would depend on what the losses looked like. If we had a couple of close losses, McCarthy goes to the NFL and we get Ohio State at home next year, I would feel excited about next year. I think we're going to go at least 1-1, maybe 2-0. We still need to worry about the other UM a bit. We'll find out if they're a fraud or not this weekend.
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