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Ryan's Tan Ribbon Task Force just recommended him as the annual host of the duals tourney (if not for Cael).
- The top remaining seed after the first weekend would play host to an eight-team championship bracket the following weekend.
I never participated in wrestling, but have become a fan of the sport. From a fan's perspective, I think it would be difficult to have a championship and then go back to the regular season again. It would seem pretty anti-climatic.
This definetly is part of the issue.I never participated in wrestling, but have become a fan of the sport. From a fan's perspective, I think it would be difficult to have a championship and then go back to the regular season again. It would seem pretty anti-climatic.
Maybe I missed it in the article, but would the NCAA tourny as we know it still determine the NCAA team champion ? Or would the new attempt at a dual tournament determine it?
Does anyone else see the irony of Ryan promoting the importance of duals again? He's the first guy that would send out 6 of his 10 starters at this thing and make a mockery of it. Let's assume they were doing this for the current season. Nato would wrestle only one half of the regular season duals because of his weight cut, make weight 3 times at NCAA'S, then have to make it again a week or 2 later for the first weekend of championship duals, AND then the following week for the second week of duals? OK Tan Tom.
That part isn't terrible. There may be merit to moving the season back 5-6 weeks, so it starts after Fall finals -- if it's done to move the NCAA Tournament away from that other tournament that hogs all the TV screens (and a couple weeks after MLB opening day). IMO worth discussing pros and cons.When will this nonsense ever end?
From Nickerson, we learn that under the current model, it is challenging for incoming freshmen to balance the pressures of classes, exams, weight-cutting, and competition during the fall semester. And this gem:
"We’ve proven that the individual championship makes money, it’s very successful for the NCAA and why wouldn’t a dual meet championship be just as successful?”
Didn't he graduate from an Ivy League school? Come on, man. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. Between this mythical perception that we need 2 sanctioned championships (who does that?) and all the rules and scoring changes every couple of years, we won't recognize the sport in another 10.
That part isn't terrible. There may be merit to moving the season back 5-6 weeks, so it starts after Fall finals -- if it's done to move the NCAA Tournament away from that other tournament that hogs all the TV screens (and a couple weeks after MLB opening day). IMO worth discussing pros and cons.
Of course that's not what they're looking to do. Nickerson is smart enough to know that. He (along with Ryan) thinks everyone else is too dumb to see thru the smokescreen.
And the academic argument is specious. Practice is the real time drain. Somehow I don't see Nickerson deferring the start of practice until after finals week.
will be interesting to see how the implementation of this new dual championship will work logistically since there will only be one week prior awareness of where the finals will be held. How will they optimize this for travel for involved teams and fans? lodging etc. imagine dealing with this at Penn State if this falls on a spring football weekend or a date when there is a concert previously booked for the BJC. I do not think the one week prior notice for championship location will be without significant downside.Let me preface this by saying I would love for the NCAA to sponsor both the current individual championship AND a dual championship, but I don't see how the mode they are proposing would work very well. It would need to be two separate seasons, not one right after the other, which IMHO would only add an extra 4 weeks (my guess as they don't give details) of extra practices for 16 teams.
Also, I don't get this point at all
"You’re always going to have your wrestling fans, but I think a dual meet is much more likely to capture that casual fan. … They can conceptualize that a little bit easier than sitting eight hours at a tournament all day long"
It is a true statement which is why PSU gets 6K for home duals and has a waiting list but only 500 (just a guess) PSU fans go to NCAAs every year so what is the point of that statement?
And duals DO matter at least to the fans, the wrestlers, and the coaches (with a few notable exceptions). I don't know where the concept that duals don't matter comes from except as a straw man argument made to argue in favor of a duals championship.
Scores from the first weekend of the NWCA Duals in 2013: 42-0, 39-7, 34-10, 33-10, 33-6, 34-10, 28-8, 27-13, 27-15. Unless that regional is within driving distance, nobody but these kids' mommas is going to watch that.
Most of the regionals will have decent attendance since PSU, tSOU, Iowa, and OK State will almost always be 4 of the sites. However, that raises another issue. Since the plan is for this to be an NCAA championship that means the revenues go to the NCAA but the NCAA pays all of the costs so I don't know that this would be a money making event unless they get ESPN to show at least the finals. The NCAA is not going to sign off on an event if they think it is going to lose them money.
Soooo...we're sharing reasons it won't work, mostly. It's what happens, we become critical.
I'd like to ask the question...What's good about the concept? Big picture, little picture, whatever...is there good in this?
Moving the season within one semester?
Multiple championships (current NCAA, plus Dual Championship)?
Whatever else?
I don't know enough about the set-up of most of these sports, but if they're similar, it's going to be difficult for NCAA to give this to wrestling and not the other sports.Soooo...we're sharing reasons it won't work, mostly. It's what happens, we become critical.
I'd like to ask the question...What's good about the concept? Big picture, little picture, whatever...is there good in this?
Moving the season within one semester?
Multiple championships (current NCAA, plus Dual Championship)?
Whatever else?
with very little chance to capture the "casual" fan, because they are following the lead sheep and tuning into pumpkin pounding on the other channel.put this in your pipe and smoke it
with very little chance to capture the "casual" fan, because they are following the lead sheep and tuning into pumpkin pounding on the other channel.
Not against the dual concept so much, or the one semester-they just have the order mixed up for the two tournaments.
The venues would be available. The leagues work around pre-scheduled events everywhere, all the time.But, that is exactly my point. You can't go to a one-semester Spring sport, keep the individual tournament where it is (meaning it will stay on ESPN), and have the dual tournament before the individual. Add in that many of the NBA/NHL venues used for the individual tournament currently would not be available if you moved the individual tournament to April and the order makes a lot of sense.
The venues would be available. The leagues work around pre-scheduled events everywhere, all the time.
1. How to determine realistic individual seeds if half the schedule is after the tournament?
2. If you have dual tourney first, realistic manner to determine who qualifies?
3. It might be tougher if dual tourney first to get arenas due to bb schedules.
I think the logistics are the main reason I am skeptical. Length of season wouldn't change much- Nov-Mid April = 4 1/2 months, Holiday through end of April = 4 1/2 months. Maybe the best way would be dual season, dual championship 2 weeks before conference tourneys, conference tourney, nationals. Maybe just top 8 qualify for dual championship so it can be done in one weekend. Just things to think about.
The problem with NHL and NBA venues are that is during their playoffs which are not prescheduled. None of those teams will commit to dates during the playoffs where they can't play home games in advance of the season. Regular season is easy, as you say.
The problem with NHL and NBA venues are that is during their playoffs which are not prescheduled. None of those teams will commit to dates during the playoffs where they can't play home games in advance of the season. Regular season is easy, as you say.
Sorry, I completely disagree. NCAAs as of now are scheduled years in advance, which is WAY before regular season NBA and NHL schedules are set so the work around is already happening. Plus once the regular season ends half of the arenas are freed up. Scheduling NCAAs as is now would actually be easier, IMHO, if they were in mid April in stead of mid March.
Maybe I'm missing something, but are you saying that because the NCAA now schedules many years in advance which is easily worked around by the host city - if needed - during the NBA and NHL regular seasons, that this would translate to the two postseasons if the individual tournament is pushed back? If so, I disagree with you.
Also, Alex brings up a great point about TV, which is what people need to concentrate on rather than attendance. The individual and dual attendances are what they are. Moving the individual tournament to mid April might mean a big step backwards in terms of coverage which makes it a total non-starter for me. The more I think about it, the more accepting I am of this plan. After a few years it may even grow on everyone.
No idea what you are trying to say here in the bolded part. What I am saying is that the NCAAs are scheduled well in advance of both the NBA and NHL regular seasons AND their playoff schedules so the arenas/cities can work around any NCAA event that is already scheduled.
Need to focus on both. Last couple times natty duals was held as a tourney, majority of fans in Stilly and Minny dressed up in their empty seat costumes. TV networks not gonna want to spend money to show nobody cares enough to buy tickets.Also, Alex brings up a great point about TV, which is what people need to concentrate on rather than attendance. The individual and dual attendances are what they are. Moving the individual tournament to mid April might mean a big step backwards in terms of coverage which makes it a total non-starter for me. The more I think about it, the more accepting I am of this plan. After a few years it may even grow on everyone.