The Elephant in the Room is the 4th Quarter Collapse, the Hallmark of the Franklin Era
- Thread starter BrucePa
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No bathroom breaks! Adult diapers! Sleep is for the weak!In a sense. I burned Franklin's office chair down to the ground. No more sitting down. He has too much work to do. He owes us.
Because I'm pointing out an area where we haven't done especially well I think he's a bad coach? That's ridiculous. I think he's a very good coach and want to see him get to the Saban/Meyer/Swinney level. Right now he's not quite there, but he's on his way I think.
In two of those losses the DL could get no rush. That wasn't the case on Saturday. The DL got good pressure. On the second to last TD Haskins made a bad throw and his receiver bailed him out with a good catch. This loss was on the DB's for bad tackling. Realize it's a team effort, but I'll take this loss vs. the drubbing from a few years ago.
Those games were close throughout so PSU maintained intensity. It just seems something happens when we have, sometimes a double digit lead, where the team/staff loses focus or something. While not on the list, add this year's Appy State game.
Yeah, I think the fact that those teams outside of MSU were top five teams... they play pretty hard too.
We are playing a lot of 2nd stringers as freshmen on defense, a few starters. Very young defense overall. No cohesive all the time, played well up until the last two drives, why? I don't know, not an expert here.
Trace showed why he is an amazing young man in this game. His running was a killer to OSU much of the game. Losing KJ was very bad for our offense. Our receivers didn't seem to be getting open but then we don't as well against OSU generally, they have great defensive teams.
We played a great opponent that recruits at an Alabama level littered with five-star recruits and has great coaching with several former head coaches on staff. We weren't playing an easy opponent. We knew it would be a great game, it was. We fell short with the opportunity to win in our hands at the end. I could write a critique as a fan but I'd be like thousands of others and why? Our team is young, we lost Trace and a few others after this season, a big loss but have back a very solid basis for a great team upcoming.
Trace showed why he is an amazing young man in this game. His running was a killer to OSU much of the game. Losing KJ was very bad for our offense. Our receivers didn't seem to be getting open but then we don't as well against OSU generally, they have great defensive teams.
We played a great opponent that recruits at an Alabama level littered with five-star recruits and has great coaching with several former head coaches on staff. We weren't playing an easy opponent. We knew it would be a great game, it was. We fell short with the opportunity to win in our hands at the end. I could write a critique as a fan but I'd be like thousands of others and why? Our team is young, we lost Trace and a few others after this season, a big loss but have back a very solid basis for a great team upcoming.
No, because you are unrealistic. This season we are playing inexperienced young players. Prior seasons we played good but not great players in defense.
Perhaps we would be better off with the Tom Bradley bend and then break defenses
Tell me how often Nick, Dabo or Urban says "we're playing young, inexperienced players, so don't hold us to the program standards this year."
I don't care what Vegas says, my eyes tell me we were as good as those teams we lost to and we could have won those games. The differences weren't in talent level.
4th quarter letdowns might also be attributed to not having depth of talent that "elite" programs do. I think most on this board would acknowledge a drop off in talent and experience going two or three deep, especially on defense.
I want to clarify that while I agree that we seem to have an issue with closing out games against better teams, I don't agree that it's the hallmark of the Franklin era. OP appears to be anti-Franklin and I'm definitely not.
So your rationale, when the kids fumble and long snapper snaps over the kickers head and they take bad angles on long run plays..Frabklins fault...when the kids boat race the other team in the second half after making adjustments...kids did it all no coaching...got it, makes total sense !!! Smh
That's definitely a factor, but not the only factor. We have a relatively young staff, so that is probably some of the issue as well.
No, going for it on 4th down twice in the first half was the coaches decision.
Running up the middle instead of passing for 6 yards and then running out the clock in the Rose Bowl was the coaches decision.
Kicking a field goal last year in the 4th against OSU when a touchdown puts us up by three scores and game over was a coaches decision.
Everyone wants to point to the comeback against OSU, that wasn’t because of Franklin. It was because OSU rushed to try a field goal and Marcus and Grant made amazing plays.
Hope this also makes total sense to you and you can see the difference. Don’t have all the spreads for the games in Franklin’s tenure but I would imagine outside OSU in 2016, we have rarely won straight up as underdog via our coaching advantage. Happy to be proven wrong by our gambling brethren.
Also, what he gets paid a year, he needs to be better at those decisions.
I think Franklin is exactly what our university needed and I am very happy to have him. If he can’t make the right decisions when it counts, he needs to step aside and just be a figurehead that recruits amazingly and represents the university well.
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Did any of those 3 play with any sanctions or are they playing with rosters of 4 and 5 star talent? Are you forgetting our program was almost left for dead? Did any of them lose 10 scholarships a year? Can you honestly say that 5 years ago you thought we would be where we are? I think you need to re-evaluate your thinking here for now
Think back to the last figurehead we had and the games he cost us by poor coaching decisions and/or playing not to lose.
And no reason to attack me. I loved Joe as much as anyone here, but it was what it was.
I blame this on Franklin.
He has raised my expectations to unreasonable levels.
You can still be happy overall with the job he has done and be upset that these losses after having big leads are frustrating as a fan. USC, OSU, OSU, huge stage, all just about the same type of loss. If it doesn't frustrate you, you must not want greatness.
This loss would feel better if OSU was just the better team, we lose by 7 or 10 etc. But its the way it happened that just makes it worse.
It doesn't mean you want to FIRE FRANKLIN burn the school down etc. It just means you expect them to win one of those tough games and not see the same trend 3 years in a row (i won't even go back to maryland game 4 years ago).
A coach has to take the good with the bad. I'm the first one to praise Franklin for everything but in game management with a lead in a big game. He tenses up and team does too. Something needs to change. Its not the same as holding on to a 24 point lead in 4th quarter or coming all the way back in countless games like we did in 16 during our magical year. Its specific to blowing lead up two scores and completely melting in a big game the same way 3 years in a row.
No one Id rather run the PSU program, but James needs to start with himself of why this is happening repeatedly. We should have won that game by two touchdowns easily and its not about the last play call of the game, its much more during the game that caused that to even be a game when it should have been over much earlier.
Love JF, Love PSU forever, but like James has passion and went at fan in stands, what makes PSU alums fans so great is their passion. I won't apologize for still being pissed off. I hope the whole team is and makes sure it never happens again and uses it as fuel.
This loss would feel better if OSU was just the better team, we lose by 7 or 10 etc. But its the way it happened that just makes it worse.
It doesn't mean you want to FIRE FRANKLIN burn the school down etc. It just means you expect them to win one of those tough games and not see the same trend 3 years in a row (i won't even go back to maryland game 4 years ago).
A coach has to take the good with the bad. I'm the first one to praise Franklin for everything but in game management with a lead in a big game. He tenses up and team does too. Something needs to change. Its not the same as holding on to a 24 point lead in 4th quarter or coming all the way back in countless games like we did in 16 during our magical year. Its specific to blowing lead up two scores and completely melting in a big game the same way 3 years in a row.
No one Id rather run the PSU program, but James needs to start with himself of why this is happening repeatedly. We should have won that game by two touchdowns easily and its not about the last play call of the game, its much more during the game that caused that to even be a game when it should have been over much earlier.
Love JF, Love PSU forever, but like James has passion and went at fan in stands, what makes PSU alums fans so great is their passion. I won't apologize for still being pissed off. I hope the whole team is and makes sure it never happens again and uses it as fuel.
What do you think the odds were at when Penn state had the lead in the 4th quarter of each one of those games?
The difference in the two teams Saturday can be seen in the two injuries which most affected the game. O$U lost a potential top pick in the NFL draft and replaced him with a top 10 recruit. We lost Hamler and replaced him with Mac Hippenhammer. This is in no way meant to disrespect Mac. He is a good player who looks like someone who will have a fine career at PSU. He was a 3 Star kid with a decent offer list as opposed to Chase Young who was a national recruit with offers from everyone. They lost a potential number 1 draft pick and replaced him with a younger guy who looks like he will be a first round pick when he comes out. Recruiting on that level every year is what it will take to beat O$U and Franklin’s post game interview showed me he clearly understands that.
It is funny you said this. After reading twitter Sunday morning I said to myself that people would rather see this type of football and results.
So why is Meyer an elite coach? In the past three years, he's either lost or struggled to beat us with clearly superior talent, been shut out by Clemson in the playoffs and blown out by Iowa.
He's still recruiting at elite level, has 3 national titles on his resume and and a 75-8 record over the last 7 years and just beat a Top 10 team at their place to take over 1st place in his division. What's your definition of elite?
ESPN keeps a stat that shows how likely a team is to win at various points in the game. We were at around 96% up 12 with 8 minutes left in the game.
Including the MSU game is kinda silly. It was 24-21 after 3 quarters. That's hardly "in control". At no point was that game more than a one score game and MSU had a 3rd quarter lead.
urban is elite by virtue of his lack of ethics. Tosu values that.
(And, no, that is not sour grapes after Saturday. I associated urban, and Tosu, with a lack of ethics a long time ago, and I readily acknowledge that urban is a great football coach.)
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