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The Shame of It.

Freeh? Who said anything about Freeh?
Ziegler is 100% as bad if not worse. He's just playing to want he knows certain people want to hear in order to get attention. I'm sure you'd let your boys spend a weekend at the Sandusky house.
Still no actual arguments.

Even if you don’t accept Zieglers conclusion that Sandusky is 100% innocent, it is huge that Ziegler discovered the “boy in the shower” was Sandusky’s biggest defender for many years, even after the arrest. That clearly exonerates Joe Paterno and the admins even if there is still some guilt concerning Sandusky.
 
Still no actual arguments.
I've read enough of your posts to know your game. The pure insanity of anyone believing Sandusky is innocent makes an argument with you moot and we all know I'll argue literally anything. I do it for a living. You want to believe something so you've chosen to believe it despite everything. It's like people who think vaccinations cause autism then when one of their unvaccinated children shows signs of autism they ignore it. I could provide a video for you and you'd dismiss it because it would shatter the make believe world you've created.
 
I've read enough of your posts to know your game. The pure insanity of anyone believing Sandusky is innocent makes an argument with you moot and we all know I'll argue literally anything. I do it for a living. You want to believe something so you've chosen to believe it despite everything. It's like people who think vaccinations cause autism then when one of their unvaccinated children shows signs of autism they ignore it. I could provide a video for you and you'd dismiss it because it would shatter the make believe world you've created.
Please provide the video because I think there is significant doubt otherwise
 
Please provide the video because I think there is significant doubt otherwise
There's zero doubt of his guilt. If it wasn't wrongly made a Penn State football issue not a single person would state otherwise.
For example, stating an alleged victim has defended Sandusky as some kind of evidence indicates that individual doesn't comprehend the different ways victims process trauma. It's meaningless given the alleged age and circumstance.
 
There's zero doubt of his guilt. If it wasn't wrongly made a Penn State football issue not a single person would state otherwise.
For example, stating an alleged victim has defended Sandusky as some kind of evidence indicates that individual doesn't comprehend the different ways victims process trauma. It's meaningless given the alleged age and circumstance.
What do you mean alleged age? Allen Nyerswas well in to his 20’s
 
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What do you mean alleged age? Allen Nyerswas well in to his 20’s
How old was he when the incident allegedly occurred?
You realize males that were raped in their teens almost never acknowledge or or block it out. Have you ever handled such a case?
 
How old was he when the incident allegedly occurred?
You realize males that were raped in their teens almost never acknowledge or or block it out. Have you ever handled such a case?
When did Moyer’s make his statements? Write his Letter? INvite SAndusky to his wedding? CAll him a father figure? Ask him to be at his graduation?
 
How old was he when the incident allegedly occurred?
You realize males that were raped in their teens almost never acknowledge or or block it out. Have you ever handled such a case?
So he “blocked it out” by inviting Sandusky to his wedding, driving 10 hours to attend the funeral of Sandusky’s mother, and by writing letters to the editor of several newspapers that Sandusky is innocent when news of the investigations was first leaked.

Then amazingly the truth was finally drug out of him by a lawyer promising millions of dollars (who told a proven lie to the prosecution regarding this accuser) and an psychologist proven to engaged in pseudo-scientific “repressed memory therapy”. Yet still Myers never testified under oath that there was any sexual contact.
 
So he “blocked it out” by inviting Sandusky to his wedding, driving 10 hours to attend the funeral of Sandusky’s mother, and by writing letters to the editor of several newspapers that Sandusky is innocent when news of the investigations was first leaked.

Then amazingly the truth was finally drug out of him by a lawyer promising millions of dollars (who told a proven lie to the prosecution regarding this accuser) and an psychologist proven to engaged in pseudo-scientific “repressed memory therapy”. Yet still Myers never testified under oath that there was any sexual contact.
Same response. Yes those would all be normal psychological responses for someone who didn't want to face the ramifications. Especially him still refusing to acknowledge sexual contact. There's countless studies on this.
 
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Same response. Yes those would all be normal psychological responses for someone who didn't want to face the ramifications. Especially him still refusing to acknowledge sexual contact. There's countless studies on this.
So if the man says he was abused as a teen, that means the man he is accusing is guilty.

And if the man refuses to say he was abused as a teen, that also means the man he is accusing is guilty.
 
So if the man says he was abused as a teen, that means the man he is accusing is guilty.

And if the man refuses to say he was abused as a teen, that also means the man he is accusing is guilty.
That's not what was said at all but I'm not surprised by that response.
 
Why didn't you vote for him if admire him?
Fine. I take worship back. We'll go with revere. Do you believe Joe made any mistakes regarding Sandusky? Even as small as he should have gone on the offensive after the attacks like Boeheim did. Or did you think he handled everything perfectly? Trying go determine what I'm dealing with here
Joe did exactly what he was supposed to do. Sandusky was no longer his employee.

Spanier approved Tim’s proposal. End of story as far as Joe was concerned.
 
Joe did exactly what he was supposed to do. Sandusky was no longer his employee.

Spanier approved Tim’s proposal. End of story as far as Joe was concerned.
It isn't though as you know--Joe preached his entire life doing the right thing not the minimum. He literally set up the world to attack him
 
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Joe followed university policy and state statute by passing it up the chain of command and getting out of the way. Anything more would have been inappropriate.
It would not have been inappropriate. If any other coach did what Paterno did you would have undoubtedly attacked them for not doing enough. It's interesting how so many here suddenly lowered the bar for Paterno. Just like Dabo's NIL speech could have been written by Paterno and Dabo was attacked for it. The hypocrisy is unreal.
 
It would not have been inappropriate. If any other coach did what Paterno did you would have undoubtedly attacked them for not doing enough. It's interesting how so many here suddenly lowered the bar for Paterno. Just like Dabo's NIL speech could have been written by Paterno and Dabo was attacked for it. The hypocrisy is unreal.
He didnt write Dabos speech. So what should have Jim Jordan done?
 
I would have handled it better than Joe. I don't need to compare myself to him. He set a low bar of only doing the minimum because he had to. Revere away.
Lando. I must say…and I mean this sincerely. You are a special person.
 
It would not have been inappropriate. If any other coach did what Paterno did you would have undoubtedly attacked them for not doing enough. It's interesting how so many here suddenly lowered the bar for Paterno. Just like Dabo's NIL speech could have been written by Paterno and Dabo was attacked for it. The hypocrisy is unreal.
I’m not lowering any bar. It just is what it is. Joe was told about a potentially serious incident involving a former employee and a child affiliated with his charity. He told the appropriate people and let them do what they’re paid to do.

And frankly, once Curley told Jack Raykovitz that Sandusky’s guest privileges were rescinded, it was all on TSM to do what was right. He was a mandatory reporter and if it was serious enough to concern the highest officials at PSU, it certainly deserved to be reported.
 
I’m not lowering any bar. It just is what it is. Joe was told about a potentially serious incident involving a former employee and a child affiliated with his charity. He told the appropriate people and let them do what they’re paid to do.

And frankly, once Curley told Jack Raykovitz that Sandusky’s guest privileges were rescinded, it was all on TSM to do what was right. He was a mandatory reporter and if it was serious enough to concern the highest officials at PSU, it certainly deserved to be reported

I'm not disputing his legal requirement. This board holds people way beyond "following the rules" constantly. Paterno, a great man, spoke continuously about doing things the right way. We all know what kind of power Paterno had. Let's not pretend otherwise. Paterno had the ability to do more. Most of us haven't done enough in a situation at some point in our lives. It doesnt make him a bad person but I assure you simply based on the holier than thou BS that we see here daily had this happened at any other school the majority of the board would be saying he should have done more. Say Saban for example. You know it. Paterno isn't even one of the top people to blame but claiming he couldn't have done more is false.
 
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I know--you likely worship him and don't think he did anything wrong
You're the fan O'Brien hated
You likely also voted for Lubrano
I respected JVP tremendously. The great things that he did for the players, the university and college football are difficult to even comprehend. He was a great husband, father, person, coach, teacher and leader. He handled the Sandusky situation poorly. He could have pursued it further. Why he didn't I don't think we will ever truly know. A rare lapse in judgement in a lifetime of consistently strong, steady moral judgement. I wish Joe had gotten rid of Sandusky years before the incidents occurred. They didn't get along but Jerry was a very good coach who had was very well liked in State College. But Sandusky was a big problem for many years in that town, and there were many other officials and agencies that could have done more. He fooled a lot of people who were experts in the field of investigating child abuse. If JVP is worshipped by PSU fans then I can't disagree with them. And Bill O'Brien is an abrasive, unpleasant person who wasn't a good fit for PSU.
 
Do you think I care at all what you think of me? The "anger" that is directed at me is simply because you know I'm right so keep it coming.
nar·cis·sis·tic ˌnär-sə-ˈsi-stik

: of, relating to, or characterized by narcissism: such as
a
: extremely self-centered with an exaggerated sense of self-importance : marked by or characteristic of excessive admiration of or infatuation with oneself. ie.. Mark Zuckerberg, Paris Hilton, LandoComando, Kim Kardashian
 
nar·cis·sis·tic ˌnär-sə-ˈsi-stik

: of, relating to, or characterized by narcissism: such as
a
: extremely self-centered with an exaggerated sense of self-importance : marked by or characteristic of excessive admiration of or infatuation with oneself. ie.. Mark Zuckerberg, Paris Hilton, LandoComando, Kim Kardashian
Again....the attack only further supports my statement. This actually does a great job defining 90% of this board
 
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....Paterno isn't even one of the top people to blame but claiming he couldn't have done more is false.
Couldn't and shouldn't are two different things. Maybe Joe could have interjected himself more into the matter, but that doesn't mean he should have.

To your point, it's clear from the notes and emails from that time that C/S/S did not believe they were dealing with CSA. They were, however, trying to prevent the kind of he said/he said scenario that occurred in '98. Why else would Spanier have written, "The only downside for us is if our message is not “heard” and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it."? If they were dealing with a case of abuse, what Sandusky did or did not do in the future, would have had no bearing on their vulnerability. IOW, they would have been vulnerable anyway. The boy could have come forward at any time. Had he been abused, he would have been the topic of their discussions. That he was not even mentioned in their notes and emails speaks volumes.

Because Spanier and the others believed they were not vulnerable, so long as Sandusky adhered to the restrictions they had placed on him, it is obvious that what they believed they were dealing with did not rise to the level of CSA.

Jack Raykovitz, however, had a legal and moral obligation to report.
 
Paterno handled the Sandusky situation perfectly? Gotcha--this explains you nonsense about Franklin > Smart.
Yes, even with terminal cancer many would have fought until their last breath. I would have. Most would have.
He was coaching how many days before the story broke? So he could coach but couldn't release a statement defending his actions (or inaction) yupp
Honest question. What mistake(s) did JVP make WRT to Sandusky?
 
Honest question. What mistake(s) did JVP make WRT to Sandusky?
Big Red told exactly five people what happened. These communications from big Red were done on three separate occasions. None - that's a big fat zero - of the five people to whom he spoke to directly were led to believe that there was an urgent, imminent and grave situation involving any youth in any shower. Even Big Red himself walked out of the locker room without doing anything.

Therefore, to suggest and/or believe that any of the five men who were made aware of 'something' and did not act properly given what they were told by Big Red involves hindsight bias to the extreme. The odds of these five people all acting independently and in unison and doing something 'wrong' is beyond the Powerball chances.
 
.....The odds of these five people all acting independently and in unison and doing something 'wrong' is beyond the Powerball chances.

Yes! Had these people believed that an abused child was part of the equation, each would have done things differently. To think otherwise is to promote a narrative that doesn't make sense. Specifically, Penn State had far more to lose by turning a blind eye to a report of abuse than any bad publicity that might have come had the matter been reported to CPS.

Joe's reputation was worth a ton of money to PSU and so much more. The BOT threw him under the bus knowing full well that Joe did exactly what he should have done under the circumstances. Even if C/S/S were guilty of what they were accused, Joe could and should have been defended. And the BOT could change that narrative at any time. What's stopping them? That's the investigation I want to see.
 
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Couldn't and shouldn't are two different things. Maybe Joe could have interjected himself more into the matter, but that doesn't mean he should have.

To your point, it's clear from the notes and emails from that time that C/S/S did not believe they were dealing with CSA. They were, however, trying to prevent the kind of he said/he said scenario that occurred in '98. Why else would Spanier have written, "The only downside for us is if our message is not “heard” and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it."? If they were dealing with a case of abuse, what Sandusky did or did not do in the future, would have had no bearing on their vulnerability. IOW, they would have been vulnerable anyway. The boy could have come forward at any time. Had he been abused, he would have been the topic of their discussions. That he was not even mentioned in their notes and emails speaks volumes.

Because Spanier and the others believed they were not vulnerable, so long as Sandusky adhered to the restrictions they had placed on him, it is obvious that what they believed they were dealing with did not rise to the level of CSA.

Jack Raykovitz, however, had a legal and moral obligation to report.
True, not to mention that the email conversation Freeh used to damn Joe was printed out and saved by Gary Schulz himself, who then voluntarily handed over the files during the investigation.

Also, the fact that Joe, Tim, Gary, and Graham made absolutely no effort to get together and ensure their story was straight before their grand jury testimony showed that there was nothing nefarious. That’s terrible because the OAG then used those men’s vague memories of what they believed to be a minor issue as a weapon against them.
 
True, not to mention that the email conversation Freeh used to damn Joe was printed out and saved by Gary Schulz himself, who then voluntarily handed over the files during the investigation.

Also, the fact that Joe, Tim, Gary, and Graham made absolutely no effort to get together and ensure their story was straight before their grand jury testimony showed that there was nothing nefarious. That’s terrible because the OAG then used those men’s vague memories of what they believed to be a minor issue as a weapon against them.
Yes! This should have never been a PSU scandal. At the very least, the OAG wanted to eliminate Tim and Gary's ability to testify on Sandusky's behalf, but there has to be more to it than that.
 
Yes! This should have never been a PSU scandal. At the very least, the OAG wanted to eliminate Tim and Gary's ability to testify on Sandusky's behalf, but there has to be more to it than that.
Correct, in a just system, they would at least wait until after Sandusky is convicted to charge Curley and Schultz. And considering Sandusky was acquitted of sodomizing “Victim 2” that would not make sense either.

But we know the OAG clearly cherry picked whom to arrest or not based on how it would affect their main case against Sandusky. Who should have been arrested is Andrew Shubin, who clearly committed Obstruction of Justice when he provided the police a statement that Allan Myers was subject to oral and anal intercourse, only for Myers to contradict his own lawyer when authorities actually questioned him.
 
It isn't though as you know--Joe preached his entire life doing the right thing not the minimum. He literally set up the world to attack him
If you talk the talk you'd better walk the walk and in this case Joe fumbled.
 
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