The Brands ARE great coaches. That's a great T-shirt you have on. I knew you were a Hawkeye fan.
Tom Brands is a Great Coach
- Thread starter IndianaNittanyLion
- Start date
If I was an Iowa fan, I'd be proud of 'em too. Probably the best fit for the program that you could imagine--though the "Iowa Style" is currently not up to the task of besting the Sanderson style, nothing ever stays the same for long, and great coaches know how to adapt.
I will sound like an Iowa fan for a sec, and wonder why this board seems so obsessed w/ Iowa. It would seem to me Lehigh should be our biggest rival (not just counting competition, but history, recruiting territory, etc). I guess it's because HR and TnT both make easy targets, though not as easy as Tan Tom, IMO.
I will sound like an Iowa fan for a sec, and wonder why this board seems so obsessed w/ Iowa. It would seem to me Lehigh should be our biggest rival (not just counting competition, but history, recruiting territory, etc). I guess it's because HR and TnT both make easy targets, though not as easy as Tan Tom, IMO.
I'd point out to PSU fans that a legit Iowa team is a good thing. Without them all we'd be left with is Ohio State. I remember when Spencer Lee made his announcement. At first I was disappointed, but then it occurred to me (from a Suriano perspective) that it's a good thing. It's better to have real competition.
In the 50s, 60s and most of the 70s Lehigh was probably our biggest rivalry. Generally competing to be the baddest dude in the east.
I much prefer Iowa as a main rival. It means we are competing to be the baddest dude in the entire land. Your rivals speak highly to who you as a program are.
In the world of college wrestling, rivals like [Iowa, Oklahoma State, Ohio State] >>> [Lehigh, Pitt, Navy]
I get that the competition level is higher, but that alone doesn't make a great rivalry, IMO. And Lehigh doesn't deserve analogy with Pitt!
I see nothing wrong with this year, when Lehigh is, when fielding their full lineup, I believe, the legit #3 team (I think a match between them and Ohio State would be an amazing dual) and giving us our second toughest dual of the season. If they upped their game just a bit, we could be competing to be the baddest dude in the country.
I think a big contributor to the rivalry with Iowa is the internet. The internet gold the Iowa base threw out about how Cael was never going to win at Penn State; the lack of respect they showed towards Cael and Penn State; and the bitterness that ensued when he did, are much more entertaining than the generally good natured rivalry with Lehigh. Nothing exciting about winning a match and fan bases telling each other "that was a helluva match, good luck the rest of the season. Looking forward to next year."
You should have cringed when you saw the consecutive pins and that Iowa got pasted... yet again. People on this site were talking about a sweep when Nick Suriano was still on Penn State's roster. Was that fandom speaking or a plausible outcome?
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HR and BWI are apparently the biggest forums for college wrestling talk, Iowa had been the king for a long time prior to PSU taking over that title, Cael is from ISU and both teams are 2 of the 5 programs that can legit win it all most years.
Add all that together and you can easily see why both boards talk about each others team a ton.
Add all that together and you can easily see why both boards talk about each others team a ton.
Whats crazy is in most years we'd be talking about Michigan as the heavy heavy favorite for an NCAA title. They are competing with arguably the deepest team since the Minnesota 10 AA team (Ohio State) and the most devastating team in history (PSU). PSU can probably win a team trophy just sending back its 5 champs.
Bill Belichick is the best coach ever at choosing his starting QB. .
From my perspective I think Pennstate 1985 may have hit on a key point in his early post. Tom Brands coaching style and philosophy has changed in the past 7 years. Personally, I think Tom has embraced the progressive mindset that you see so much on university campuses all over the country. You know, everyone gets a participation trophy. It doesn’t matter if you win or lose just so long as you feel good about your self. It’s about creating a safe space for those that have their feelings hurt.
How or why this changes in his coaching philosophy took place we may never know. Maybe he hung around too many college professors during his morning trips for coffee? We do know something has change with Iowa wrestling in the past several years. Long gone are the days when an Iowa wrestler has the attitude of winning at all cost... Only thing that matters is first place. Anything else is first loser. When was the last time you saw Tom with that Mad man look in his eyes? How long has it been since he has done the Hamster Dance on the side of the mat. You can see the change in his wrestlers too. When is the last time one of their wrestlers threw their second-place medal in the trash? Even their so called bad boy last year, Gillman, couldn’t get it done at NCAA. There is a culture change with Hawkeye wrestling underfoot. For example, we must look at Gillman from this past summer while wrestling abroad. He was wearing a Switzerland Yodeling hat while sipping a latte at a coffee shop. That image doesn't fit the image of past Hawkeye greats. At least we can be thankful that he didn’t add a Lederhosen to his attire for that trip.
If you ask me, I think Terry is the only one keeping the ship from sinking completely. He is the only one resisting the change. Terry still has that mad man look in his eyes during a match. You can still see his intensity and hatred for losing.
How or why this changes in his coaching philosophy took place we may never know. Maybe he hung around too many college professors during his morning trips for coffee? We do know something has change with Iowa wrestling in the past several years. Long gone are the days when an Iowa wrestler has the attitude of winning at all cost... Only thing that matters is first place. Anything else is first loser. When was the last time you saw Tom with that Mad man look in his eyes? How long has it been since he has done the Hamster Dance on the side of the mat. You can see the change in his wrestlers too. When is the last time one of their wrestlers threw their second-place medal in the trash? Even their so called bad boy last year, Gillman, couldn’t get it done at NCAA. There is a culture change with Hawkeye wrestling underfoot. For example, we must look at Gillman from this past summer while wrestling abroad. He was wearing a Switzerland Yodeling hat while sipping a latte at a coffee shop. That image doesn't fit the image of past Hawkeye greats. At least we can be thankful that he didn’t add a Lederhosen to his attire for that trip.
If you ask me, I think Terry is the only one keeping the ship from sinking completely. He is the only one resisting the change. Terry still has that mad man look in his eyes during a match. You can still see his intensity and hatred for losing.
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Ha! Great remains too strong a word to describe their coaching, recruiting, leadership abilities. I'm giving you very good. I might even throw in an extra very. Very, very good.
In the 50s and 60s Pitt was coached by a pretty darn good coach by some fella named Rex Perry. During Penn State's EIWA peroid Pitt was a big rival.
So as far as wrestling goes during the EIWA time Pitt as a rival belongs there with Lehigh and Navy.
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He was probably with Foley sipping that latte as they discussed face mushing!
Penn State and Lehigh are always going to have a rivalry. I don't even know if Cael actually said this or not, but he has been given credit, so to put Lehigh into perspective - I didn't come to Penn State to beat Lehigh, I came to win championships.
At the same time, the year Lehigh was removed from the wrestling schedule the trustees intervened to put a stop to it.
Penn State wrestles Ohio State every year because the B1G powers say so. Penn State wrestles Lehigh every year because a shyt load of money behind Penn State and Lehigh say so.
I used to post on a wrestling site that had connections to multiple team sites. The Lehigh fans got so pissed from the Penn State vistors (sound familiar) they started a new Lehigh message board and you had to know the double secret handshake to be able to log on to it.
Lehigh and Penn State have a long assed history, and the rivalry is strong and healthy. 10,000 in attendance this year.
You may be right, a fully healthy Lehigh may be a top 3 or 4 team this year. Taking the step to making that an annual occurance is IMO going to take something more than upping their game a bit. A decade and a half as Cornell's bytch is something Lehigh needs to fix before they can compete for baddest in all the land.
I agree with your take on the internet playing a part in the level of intensity the Iowa PSU wrestling rivalry has reached. Without the internet and message boards it would already be strong since they were king for so long and they ain't no more. The fan back and forth on the message boards makes what is already a king of the hill intensity rivalry, something akin to the schools bordering each other.
Cael did say the first half of this, shortly after being hired. He didn't say the 2nd part, but the implication was very obvious.
Nothing. They are not.
My response was simply justifying grouping Pitt in with Navy and Lehigh as wrestling rivalries of Penn State's in the 50s, 60s and 70s.
You probably just missed an earlier thread exchange that puts the post in perspective.
if Foley was published in a magazine, how many people would take the time to write and provide their opinion?
NittanyChris said:
Ha! That's pretty humorous. They are every bit as good as the coach who's been kicking their a**** since 2011?
Be careful of accuracy! I recall sitting in Rec Hall 1/30/2011 all dressed for a "white out" crushing of Iowa just to be crushed myself as I looked at the final score board totals....Iowa 22 PSU 13. Till this day I get nervous when a "white out" is called for.
Ha! That's pretty humorous. They are every bit as good as the coach who's been kicking their a**** since 2011?
Be careful of accuracy! I recall sitting in Rec Hall 1/30/2011 all dressed for a "white out" crushing of Iowa just to be crushed myself as I looked at the final score board totals....Iowa 22 PSU 13. Till this day I get nervous when a "white out" is called for.
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Since Cael's arrival the dual record against Iowa is 4W 4L.
The B1G tourn record is 5 Championships to 1 outright and 1 co championdhip for Iowa.
Penn State has finished ahead of Iowa 6 of 8 times.
NCAA tournament 6 Championships PSU 1 Iowa. PSU has finished ahead of Iowa 6 of 8 times.
Cael now owns TnT. The white-out loss, if you were expecting the Lions to trounce the Hawks that day that is on you. At that point the Hawks were still the king of the Hill and Penn State was still figuring out the path to the top. The path was located that year in the B1G (5 for 5 Big10 finals, Vollrath's run to third, and a ton of other just right moments) tournament. It still took Quentin's semi-final standing cradle to blow through the castle wall and announce "we are here and here is now home".
Yep, the 3Cs have been kicking TnT's ass ever since.
I don't know - what is worth the postage?... imagine those who care enough to take the time and then most of us who don't care enough to comment other than a quick response on a keyboard (without a stamp).
Are you sure that is enough time. Sorry Turk, I couldn't help myself. It was just too easy.
I did forget my winking face on the first response. Before I can respond to how many people would pay to respond to Foley I have to ponder the answer to the question of "how many people would actually pay to read foley in the first place?
Congratulations to @WildTurk , one of my favorite HR posters.
Successful marriages often include learning to compromise and admitting when you're wrong and she is right - which is always. It also may involve some sacrifice on your part in terms of what you support.
I'd suggest that you get some practice in on your 5 year improvement plan for her and admit that Cael is the better coach and ditch your black and gold for the blue and white!
Successful marriages often include learning to compromise and admitting when you're wrong and she is right - which is always. It also may involve some sacrifice on your part in terms of what you support.
I'd suggest that you get some practice in on your 5 year improvement plan for her and admit that Cael is the better coach and ditch your black and gold for the blue and white!
Diceman... oh Diceman...Congratulations to @WildTurk , one of my favorite HR posters.
Successful marriages often include learning to compromise and admitting when you're wrong and she is right - which is always. It also may involve some sacrifice on your part in terms of what you support.
I'd suggest that you get some practice in on your 5 year improvement plan for her and admit that Cael is the better coach and ditch your black and gold for the blue and white!
... Turk is Black and Gold for life and he's getting married. At least he'll be Black and Gold for life.It was an eye opening moment for everybody. I am still certain Marion was pinned, but it was the first big red flag Andrew A might have some conditioning issues. I think everyone was shocked Quentin got handled with ease like he did. However if we been paying attention the Iowa kid had handled Quentin a few years earlier. Freshman Ramos was the real stunner.
I also remember being surprised at how better conditioned Iowa was. The difference was so noticeable Cael addressed it, but by saying it may have looked like they were better conditioned, but we are well conditioned.
This IMO was one of those teaching moments the Cael, Cody, Casey staff always take advantage of and instead of the bullheaded "we do it right" attitude they thought about it, reasoned through some things and made some adjustments.
By the end of the season, those adjustments gave some never before seen at Penn State results.
But yeah. The white out in Rec Hall that day did not go as planned. However, while writing this I can not keep from smiling. Turns out that particular day was the last time at the end of the competition Iowa was able to still see themselves as the king of the hill. Damn it has been a fun time.
I am sure you know this, but for the benefit of our Hawk vistors, did you know that in a few years when you look at a list of past 10 NCAA champions you will not be able to find Iowa's name on that list?
You know we are discussing the PSU vs Iowa 2011 match? I believe the first white out at Rec Hall with Cael as head coach.
To go ahead and answer
Iowa won the match, apparently feeding off the crowd's energy.
Congratulations to @WildTurk , one of my favorite HR posters.
Successful marriages often include learning to compromise and admitting when you're wrong and she is right - which is always. It also may involve some sacrifice on your part in terms of what you support.
I'd suggest that you get some practice in on your 5 year improvement plan for her and admit that Cael is the better coach and ditch your black and gold for the blue and white!
FINALLY....a UNIVERSAL truth with which ALL wrestling fans can agree.
Cael Sanderson and the Brands brothers have all lost more arguments to their wives than they have won!
Yes, I do know it was 2011 being discussed, and I also see my question was a bit weird. I was (over)thinking that the white out didnt go as planned logistically.
Strange that Iowa would feed off it instead of our guys. Just an off night possibly.
Thanks for the advice. I do listen i promise.Congratulations to @WildTurk , one of my favorite HR posters.
Successful marriages often include learning to compromise and admitting when you're wrong and she is right - which is always. It also may involve some sacrifice on your part in terms of what you support.
I'd suggest that you get some practice in on your 5 year improvement plan for her and admit that Cael is the better coach and ditch your black and gold for the blue and white!
Everyone should have a P.I.P (personal improvement plan). . Surround yourself with successful, honest, hard working people is my advice. It's contagious. Be humble. Stay loyal. Go Hawkeyes!
