Nickal should be number 1. The guy was a freak. If Taylor didn’t get caught the one year he may have had a chance.
Top Ten Penn State Wrestlers
- Thread starter amalone
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But since Martin is continually improving, it's inevitable that he will eventually the best opponent ever beaten by a PSU wrestler.
I believe COVID denied IMar the similar honor of losing two matches at NCAAs, each to a PSU three-timer.
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?? Bill Koll ?? He wrestled at the University of Northern Iowa.
Lol. You are right. I was thinking coaching. Don’t know why. He was robs father and always came in to show us moves at state high.
I don't know the correct order (especially the top 5), but I do know this. The list is only going to get harder over the next few years.
If Suriano comes back and goes 125 and beats Spencer Lee in the NCAA final, then would that be the best PSU win?
Beat Spencer as a 5th year Sr. going for his 4th? I think you might have something there. The ultimate irony.
Nico ahead of Raptor. Cenzo is still being underrated (at least by this guy). He should almost be considered a 2 1/2 timer. Big Ten titles should be a tie breaker if National Titles are equal. But 4 Big Ten titles don't equal 1 National Title. Now 5 big ten titles, that will be something. 3 timers should be at the top of the list, take your pick on order. Q would be a 3 timer if stalling were called and he and Cenzo should be ahead of Hall. Cenzo > Q > Hall > Nico > Raptor. Abe has similar credentials to Nico. Kolat deserves consideration and would certainly be on the list if his 2 titles were won in the Blue and White.
At or near the top, only a general consensus since criteria bias creeps into the equation.
By National Championships: Ruth, Retherford, Nolf, Nickal tied with 3. Prescott, Matter, McCoy, Wright, Taylor, Joseph tied with 2. 24 others tied with 1.
By body of work (career win %): In order highest % to lowest %; Ruth, Taylor, Retherford, Nickal, Nolf, Matter (first 5 guys had 3 losses each, Matter had 2, but could only wrestle 3 seasons) - very, very little differentation!
By dominance (% bonus pt wins): In order highest to lowest; Taylor, Nolf, Nickal, Ruth, Retherford
By dominance (using NCAA Most Dominant formula): In order highest to lowest; Taylor, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Ruth
By best losses: Retherford (2 to Stieber), Taylor (2 to Dake), Nolf (2 to Martinez)
Any others? Point is I'm not sure how these guys can be separated. I'm still of the opinion that 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, and 1e for (in alphabetic order) Nickal, Nolf, Retherford, Ruth and Taylor is the way to go. Differentiating them is like picking fly poop from pepper.
By National Championships: Ruth, Retherford, Nolf, Nickal tied with 3. Prescott, Matter, McCoy, Wright, Taylor, Joseph tied with 2. 24 others tied with 1.
By body of work (career win %): In order highest % to lowest %; Ruth, Taylor, Retherford, Nickal, Nolf, Matter (first 5 guys had 3 losses each, Matter had 2, but could only wrestle 3 seasons) - very, very little differentation!
By dominance (% bonus pt wins): In order highest to lowest; Taylor, Nolf, Nickal, Ruth, Retherford
By dominance (using NCAA Most Dominant formula): In order highest to lowest; Taylor, Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Ruth
By best losses: Retherford (2 to Stieber), Taylor (2 to Dake), Nolf (2 to Martinez)
Any others? Point is I'm not sure how these guys can be separated. I'm still of the opinion that 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, and 1e for (in alphabetic order) Nickal, Nolf, Retherford, Ruth and Taylor is the way to go. Differentiating them is like picking fly poop from pepper.
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Great breakdown Roar
I am in ZR camp, and I dont think enough emphasis is put on his losses.
All of which were in his first year of college, 2 of which were to a current 2xer (though JO will disagree) who was in his 4th year of college. The third was against a senior (not sure if 4th or 5th year).
To be a little more specific: the 3rd loss was in OT to a 2x national finalist.
11th now, soon to be 12th. Nickal and Nolf jumped ahead, and S. Lee with a 2nd place or better finish next year will move ahead.
Incredible that we had 5 of the top-11 NCAA scorers all-time in the Penn State room in the last decade.
Ruth and Nolf both have a “loss” by an injury default.
What about back points allowed? Taylor and Nickal for sure. I seem to recall Nolf on his back at Keystone but don’t remember if points were awarded. Don’t know the answer off the top of my head for Zain and Ruth.
What about back points allowed? Taylor and Nickal for sure. I seem to recall Nolf on his back at Keystone but don’t remember if points were awarded. Don’t know the answer off the top of my head for Zain and Ruth.
Maybe there was another time, but I remember seeing Nolf get headlocked at the Keystone Classic and NOT give up any back points.
Zain got tilted once by Stieber. IIRC at B10 finals.
Amuchestegui turned Ruth 3x in the 2nd period of their 2011 match. Ed was losing 9-2 when he defaulted.
Nickal was closest to being 4 xer
One costly move then still damn near came back
Martin never repeated.
One costly move then still damn near came back
Martin never repeated.
DT gave up a fall... how many back points is that worth?
Jason was closer to being a 4x champ. Lost by 1 pt on a 3rd period takedown to Martinez, who then moved up to 165.
Ruth got the first TD and was up 2-1 and then got injured before Much scored the rest of his points.
Technically yes, but I still feel Jason was closer talent wise to Imar than Bo was to MyMar. Bo beat Bo,basically.
Bo lost to Martin another time, too. So Bo’s loss can’t be called a fluke.
According to all the announcers and rankers, Bo's wins were upsets.
It's insane but it also make sense when you are talking all time tiers, how one loss can take you out of the conversation. Dan Gable would be 1b with Cael IMO as a college wrestler and boom, he's now Tier 2 (Tier 1 to me is Cael, Uetake, Hodge) since he isn't undefeated. You can argue he should be pushed even back further since his loss was in the championship and guys like Dake, Smith, Kemp should be ahead of him. For something like all timers, little things can be scrutinized like Logan's match against JO.
Similarly, if Spencer wins out next year ... where do you put him?
Similarly, if Spencer wins out next year ... where do you put him?
Tier 1 = Dake. 4 weight classes > career undefeated. Plus Cael doesn't wear self-branded t-shirts while being interviewed by ESPN during live action.
Cael doesn't have to self brand. I still have his Wheaties box from 20 years ago!
