Top Ten Penn State Wrestlers

[PSUer1989]

Tier 1 = Dake. 4 weight classes > career undefeated. Plus Cael doesn't wear self-branded t-shirts while being interviewed by ESPN during live action.

Why does four different weight classes matter (truly asking)? He grew more in college, while others didn’t. Or others did more to maintain their freshman weight. I can see changing weight classes exposes you to more wrestlers, but does that mean they are better? For example, staying in 133 over the last few years seems more challenging than moving up each year.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

It's insane but it also make sense when you are talking all time tiers, how one loss can take you out of the conversation. Dan Gable would be 1b with Cael IMO as a college wrestler and boom, he's now Tier 2 (Tier 1 to me is Cael, Uetake, Hodge) since he isn't undefeated. You can argue he should be pushed even back further since his loss was in the championship and guys like Dake, Smith, Kemp should be ahead of him. For something like all timers, little things can be scrutinized like Logan's match against JO.

Similarly, if Spencer wins out next year ... where do you put him?

Four titles undefeated>Four titles on 2 artificial knees> 4 titles at 4 different weights> 4 titles with one very controversial

 

[El-Jefe]

Why does four different weight classes matter (truly asking)? He grew more in college, while others didn’t. Or others did more to maintain their freshman weight. I can see changing weight classes exposes you to more wrestlers, but does that mean they are better? For example, staying in 133 over the last few years seems more challenging than moving up each year.

Ask ESPN.

 

[mcpat]

1. Nolf

Except for an injury default (which I disregard as a true loss), lost only to IMAR in freshman year, once in OT, once by a point and Nolf had pinned him in that same year. He's #2 on bonus point win %.

2. Retherford

Two Hodge trophies, no losses after true freshman year. He might have been #1 as an undefeated four-timer if he had redshirted his true freshman year, but how do you rank on ifs?

3. Nickal

Among four-time finalists, three-time champs have to beat two-time champs on such a list and losing after freshman season counts next in finding separation on my list of the best. But with anything team-related on the line and a fall needed, there is no one I would rather have wrestle than Nickal.

4. Ruth

An injury default away from being a 4-timer but you can't rate on only-ifs and Ruth did take a loss as a senior. (I respect, but despise Cornell.). Always looked so effortless. Would love to see Ruth vs Shakur in a cradles-only match.

5. Taylor

Highest bonus point percentage, most points at nationals, two Hodge trophies but I don't rank two championships ahead of three. (See Ruth for Cornell comment.)

6. Hall

Three-time finalist that didn't get a fourth chance as a senior. Wright and McCoy won one more title each but Hall had a significantly better win % and bonus % and won as a true freshman.

7. Joseph

Except for the true freshman part, see comments about Mark Hall. Pinning IMAR in the finals, and Byers call of it, are my all-time favorite moments watching Penn State Wrestling since it was invented 12 years ago. (Cassar over Moore is second.)

8. Wright

6-1-2-1 beats DNP-1-3-1. You wonder what Wright and McCoy would have done with a redshirt season.

9. McCoy

Did I really just rank a Hodge trophy winning two-time champ that went 131-1 after his true freshman year 9th? I want to ignore 19-17 as a (true) freshman but cannot. Not on a list of wrestlers that otherwise all were AAs in their first year wrestling varsity. But wow.

10. Megaludis

Three-time finalist, one-time champ. As great as the Champ was, four years has to beat 1.75. How spoiled are we as fans that 2-2-3-1 only makes a fan's list?

 

[PSUer1989]

Ask ESPN.

Gotcha... I missed the sarcasm🙄.

 

[SpikingWhamos]

Ruth and Nolf both have a “loss” by an injury default.

What about back points allowed? Taylor and Nickal for sure. I seem to recall Nolf on his back at Keystone but don’t remember if points were awarded. Don’t know the answer off the top of my head for Zain and Ruth.

Nolf ended up with that 2. Kid hit a headlock but Nolf turned out of it and came up with the TD. Stieber got 2NF against Zain. Amuchastegui turned Ruth a few times before the default

 

[Sportfan2017]

If my sister had balls...

What bathroom would she use? ....

 

[lions#1]

Why does four different weight classes matter (truly asking)? He grew more in college, while others didn’t. Or others did more to maintain their freshman weight. I can see changing weight classes exposes you to more wrestlers, but does that mean they are better? For example, staying in 133 over the last few years seems more challenging than moving up each year.

Kyle Dake 4x champ at 4 different weight classes without a redshirt season. The guys he was wrestling were cutting weight while he was eating to gain weight. Dake was wrestling guys that should have been bigger and stronger his 4 years. Just like our Bo Nickel.

When you cut weight you have a competitive advantage, meaning you have a larger body mass than your opponents. This is the most important distinction here. When it comes to a competitive advantage usually you want to be at a higher body weight when you are grappling, clinching, when there’s some kind of way for the wrestler to impose their body weight onto somebody, that is where they will get the biggest advantage.

This is why Bo Nickel is my pick for #1:

3x ncaa champ at two weights 184 (2), 197 (1), beating - Moore, Martin, Dean
4x finalist at 174, 184 (2), and 197
3x time big10 at 3 different weight classes - 174, 184, 197 (only PSU wrestler)

#2 - Ed
3x ncaa champ at two weights 174 (1), 184 (2) beating Storley, Hamlin, Sheptock
4x big10 champ

#3 - Zain
3x ncaa champ at 149 beating Sorenson, Micah Jordon, and #15 seed Ronald Perry now Lock Haven head coach. 3x big10 champ at 149.

#4 - Jason
3x ncaa champ at 157 beating Tyler Berger, Hayden Hidlay, and Joey Lavailee. 2x big10 champ at 157, 4x ncaa finalist.

 

[Dogwelder]

... When you cut weight you have a competitive advantage, meaning you have a larger body mass than your opponents. ...

The bolded part is true, using Aristotelean reasoning when one assumes “... all else being equal” and assumes plenty of time between weigh-in and match. Using evidence-based Scientific reasoning, the bolded part is not clearly true at all. Based on Cael’s PSU wrestlers, the stronger evidence suggests that all else is not equal and that the opposite of the bolded part is more likely true, especially by the time of the NCAA tournament.

 

[PSUer1989]

Kyle Dake 4x champ at 4 different weight classes without a redshirt season. The guys he was wrestling were cutting weight while he was eating to gain weight. Dake was wrestling guys that should have been bigger and stronger his 4 years. Just like our Bo Nickel.

When you cut weight you have a competitive advantage, meaning you have a larger body mass than your opponents. This is the most important distinction here. When it comes to a competitive advantage usually you want to be at a higher body weight when you are grappling, clinching, when there’s some kind of way for the wrestler to impose their body weight onto somebody, that is where they will get the biggest advantage.

This is why Bo Nickel is my pick for #1:

3x ncaa champ at two weights 184 (2), 197 (1), beating - Moore, Martin, Dean
4x finalist at 174, 184 (2), and 197
3x time big10 at 3 different weight classes - 174, 184, 197 (only PSU wrestler)

#2 - Ed
3x ncaa champ at two weights 174 (1), 184 (2) beating Storley, Hamlin, Sheptock
4x big10 champ

#3 - Zain
3x ncaa champ at 149 beating Sorenson, Micah Jordon, and #15 seed Ronald Perry now Lock Haven head coach. 3x big10 champ at 149.

#4 - Jason
3x ncaa champ at 157 beating Tyler Berger, Hayden Hidlay, and Joey Lavailee. 2x big10 champ at 157, 4x ncaa finalist.

If cutting weight is such an advantage, you think Smith’s Cowboys would be at 50 and counting by now!

 

[nerfstate]

#3 - Zain
3x ncaa champ at 149 beating Sorenson, Micah Jordon, and #15 seed Ronald Perry now Lock Haven head coach. 3x big10 champ at 149.

FWIW Zain’s finals wins were over Sorensen, Lavion Mayes, and Perry. Perry is an assistant coach for the men’s team, but head coach of their women’s team.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

The bolded part is true, using Aristotelean reasoning when one assumes “... all else being equal” and assumes plenty of time between weigh-in and match. Using evidence-based Scientific reasoning, the bolded part is not clearly true at all. Based on Cael’s PSU wrestlers, the stronger evidence suggests that all else is not equal and that the opposite of the bolded part is more likely true, especially by the time of the NCAA tournament.

I agree, but not even sure what the hell you said.

 

[mhs103]

I agree, but not even sure what the hell you said.

Don't feel bad for failing to understand Dogwelder's theory. I doubt that famed logician Bart Simpson could explain it.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

But since Martin is continually improving, it's inevitable that he will eventually the best opponent ever beaten by a PSU wrestler.

“You haven’t seen the best of Myles yet” - Greg Martin after another loss (thus skillfully discounting opponent wins in a passive-aggressive manner)

Seeing him put the video camera down after the elevator happened with a “who farted” look on his face amuses me

 

[mcpat]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

 

[nerfstate]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

I’d stick Q’s Screwlock in there somewhere, maybe Nico’s head “way inside” short offense. .

Then there’s the moves all our guys are good at—far ankle scramble, that underhook to knee pick thing, western ride, etc.

 

[Dogwelder]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

SPYKER DUCKUNDER!!!!

 

[SWPA]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

Kuhn headlock

 

[Cali_Nittany]

 

[Shifty15]

9

Not only early 90s. Chanp was big in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.

so he wrestled Nelson Brands too?

 

[amattaro]

View embedded media

The roar of “TWOOOOOOO” never gets old in that one.

 

[amattaro]

View embedded media

Silent is great, too. The two Iowa guys on the floor to the right of Bo looking for two as he locks up the spladle, then Penn state guy in white all

as he realizes what’s happening.

 

[El-Jefe]

Silent is great, too. The two Iowa guys on the floor to the right of Bo looking for two as he locks up the spladle, then Penn state guy in white all

as he realizes what’s happening.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

put Nolf on top based on "who knows what"!!

 

[creamery freak]

Top 10 Moves:

1. Retherford Bow and Arrow
2. Hall Cement Mixer
3. Nolf Winn Dixie
4. Ruth Cradle
5. Nickal Elevator
6. Joseph Inside Trip
7. Cassar Blast Double
8. Taylor Ankle Pick
9. Rasheed Cradle
10. RBY Tackle

I'm kind of growing partial to Nick Lee's Inside Trip too that helped him solve a riddle.

 

[amattaro]

 

[Random4598375]

put Nolf on top based on "who knows what"!!

#1 needs to be Bo Nickal - flip guy from your back to his back and pin him.

 

[tikk10]

View embedded media

Guy in white t-shirt, second row, excitedly embarking on a high-five tour is the last one to find out that he's the opposite of happy.

 

[amattaro]

Guy in white t-shirt, second row, excitedly embarking on a high-five tour is the last one to find out that he's the opposite of happy.

He’s so confused I thought he must be a Penn State fan.

 

[Ja1339]

Guy in white t-shirt, second row, excitedly embarking on a high-five tour is the last one to find out that he's the opposite of happy.

Cameraman getting settled in just as pin gets called, lol

 

[mcpat]

(Can I do one more without overplaying my welcome?)

Top 10 individual wins:

1. Joseph pins Martinez

Did anyone really see that one coming? 5 for 5; what a night!

2. Nickal pins Martin

From his back to the pin. "Its what we do!". I've rewatched the Ohio State fans in the background go from glory to glum 100x. Is that wrong?

3. Cassar over Moore

Such a clutch win. Other than VJ over IMAR, I've rewatched this match (and Nevills' incredible regular decision loss to Snyder that followed) more than any other. The crowd noise is unreal.

4. Retherford over Stieber

2nd period rideout by the true freshman and then a TD in sudden victory. Zain was a 10-0 true freshman with no ranked wins until that match. Sure - everyone knew who he was... but this was Logan Stieber he was wrestling.

5. Megaludis over Gilman

Sorry Gilman, but it was the perfect ending to an incredible career that had been oh-so-close so many times (and I didn't particularly like Gilman until recently).

6. Wright pins Gambrall

That one put him in the finals, where he finished the deal. Such an incredible post-season run. Remember... QW was the 8-seed at Big Tens that year (and only the 9-seed at NCAAs).

7. Nickal over Martin 10-2

The third and final entry from 19-18. The 2 NF in the closing seconds... typical clutch performance by Bo.

8. Cassar over Steveson

The one at NCAAs. Down 2-0 entering the 3rd... Escape, TD and 1:01 riding advantage. Wow.

9. Ruth over Dean

Avenged his only loss since his freshman season. Dean had me worried at the time. Ruth and Nolf have to be the on the short list of best non-Hodge winners. (I think I have the makings of another list.)

t-10. Brown over Evans

I'm going with 1-0 at nationals, but there were a bunch, especially that year, and they were all great. There was nothing like a match with Mike Evans.

t-10. Lee over Eierman

Had to find a way to get "Chop wood. Carry Water." on here. I've used that line 1000x in the past six weeks.

 

[KidDagger]

David Taylor would be my #1 PSU... yes he “only” has 2 titles but 2/3 of his losses were to a goat in Dake and the last one was getting caught by former teammate, Bubba J.

Also, lead the start of PSU’s dominance and just the way he dominated w/ the highest bonus rate was amazing to watch..

Oh, also two time hodge trophy winner(winning one of these is a lot harder then a ncaa title, and for ppl that say buuut he “only” has 2 titles compared to others 3... well how many hodge do they have??)

 

[johnstownsteel]

When did Mr. Gore invent the internet?

Word on the street is he's now moderating over on HR...

 

[Dogwelder]

... Oh, also two time hodge trophy winner(winning one of these is a lot harder then a ncaa title, and for ppl that say buuut he “only” has 2 titles compared to others 3... well how many hodge do they have??)

Well Zain has two Hodge, plus three titles. And he should have had 3 Hodge, but they stole one and gave it as a lifetime achievement award to someone who had a worse season according to the official published Hodge criteria.

 

[manatree]

Well Zain has two Hodge, plus three titles. And he should have had 3 Hodge, but they stole one and gave it as a lifetime achievement award to someone who had a worse season according to the official published Hodge criteria.

Like it or not, past credentials are an official published Hodge criteria. As well as the ever murky citizenship/sportsmanship and heart.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Like it or not, past credentials are an official published Hodge criteria. As well as the ever murky citizenship/sportsmanship and heart.

There are also a few, seemingly less important that year, un-debatable, un-subjective criteria that should have counted more than “lifetime achievement”.

 

[manatree]

There are also a few, seemingly less important that year, un-debatable, un-subjective criteria that should have counted more than “lifetime achievement”.

Like it or not, unless the Hodge announces which criteria are to be counted more, anyone can say which criteria should be counted more. Trying to create an annual award that combines annual performance along with career achievement as well as the touchy-feely was a flawed proposition from the start.

 

[dunkej01]

(Can I do one more without overplaying my welcome?)

Top 10 individual wins:

1. Joseph pins Martinez

Did anyone really see that one coming? 5 for 5; what a night!

2. Nickal pins Martin

From his back to the pin. "Its what we do!". I've rewatched the Ohio State fans in the background go from glory to glum 100x. Is that wrong?

3. Cassar over Moore

Such a clutch win. Other than VJ over IMAR, I've rewatched this match (and Nevills' incredible regular decision loss to Snyder that followed) more than any other. The crowd noise is unreal.

4. Retherford over Stieber

2nd period rideout by the true freshman and then a TD in sudden victory. Zain was a 10-0 true freshman with no ranked wins until that match. Sure - everyone knew who he was... but this was Logan Stieber he was wrestling.

5. Megaludis over Gilman

Sorry Gilman, but it was the perfect ending to an incredible career that had been oh-so-close so many times (and I didn't particularly like Gilman until recently).

6. Wright pins Gambrall

That one put him in the finals, where he finished the deal. Such an incredible post-season run. Remember... QW was the 8-seed at Big Tens that year (and only the 9-seed at NCAAs).

7. Nickal over Martin 10-2

The third and final entry from 19-18. The 2 NF in the closing seconds... typical clutch performance by Bo.

8. Cassar over Steveson

The one at NCAAs. Down 2-0 entering the 3rd... Escape, TD and 1:01 riding advantage. Wow.

9. Ruth over Dean

Avenged his only loss since his freshman season. Dean had me worried at the time. Ruth and Nolf have to be the on the short list of best non-Hodge winners. (I think I have the makings of another list.)

t-10. Brown over Evans

I'm going with 1-0 at nationals, but there were a bunch, especially that year, and they were all great. There was nothing like a match with Mike Evans.

t-10. Lee over Eierman

Had to find a way to get "Chop wood. Carry Water." on here. I've used that line 1000x in the past six weeks.

Great list and love to relive these when people mention them.

But my comment is really about the chop wood, carry water comment.

I probably say it at least once a day. Sons baseball team. Our kids in general. Heck I said it to one my Spanish workers and he took it way too literal in the translation.

I also find myself when I cant sleep at night putting on the ncaa finals all the time. I fast forward through the bball game, watch RBY and Nlee and then I fall asleep before the 2nd pd starts of 149.

#workseverytime

 

[El-Jefe]

I also find myself when I cant sleep at night putting on the ncaa finals all the time. I fast forward through the bball game, watch RBY and Nlee and then I fall asleep before the 2nd pd starts of 149.

#workseverytime

You could watch Starocci and Brooks ... but then you'd fall asleep to Ferrari taking off his shirt.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[KidDagger]

Well Zain has two Hodge, plus three titles. And he should have had 3 Hodge, but they stole one and gave it as a lifetime achievement award to someone who had a worse season according to the official published Hodge criteria.

Wow, almost forgotten Zain had 2 hodge... and mighta been a 4x champ if he RS freshman season...

Blows my mind how you guys have all these “generational” wrestlers all around the same time frame... u guys blessed