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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Well, this was before the B1G had their intra-conference transfer rule in place and he paid his own way and sat out a season. So, not the same - at all.
tOSU and UM discussion
- Thread starter Alphalion75
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Well, this was before the B1G had their intra-conference transfer rule in place and he paid his own way and sat out a season. So, not the same - at all.
This says it all right here nothing but made up conspiracy. you do realize bad calls go against every team in the conference (including those devils in columbus and ann arbor) and all have an issue with officials. It's not Penn State thing its a college football thing. I guess you truly "don't see what you don't want to see."
Right. And there never being any repercussions like people losing their jobs for blatantly bad calls is just made up tinfoil fantasy too. And the fact that these same officials seem to keep reappearing and making "bad" calls is just, well, coincidence. OK gotcha.
Ok I guess. This is like a kid believing in Santa Claus, as long as he believes it, it must be real.
I saw through the Santa story when I was in 2nd grade, just like I can see through this one that you're trying to sell.
What like the league frontoffice petitioning the NCAA on behalf of scUM and tO$U in regards to the "self-filing" of "internal investigations" that badly misled the NCAA in regards to scUM's "Fab5 / Ed Martin Affair" and tO$U's "Tat-Gate" and led to initial NCAA findings that largely exonerated these programs that allowed them to "skate" pretty much Scot-free until subsequent FBI Investigations in both cases made it quite clear that senior executives at both schools were lying in their "internal investigations" forcing the NCAA to reopen the cases resulting in Major Infractions......VERSES the diametric opposite actions in regards to PSU and NCAA - b1g ten sided with NCAA and laid the hammer to PSU only to subsequently reverse these sanctions when it became clear from the Law Enforcement Investigation that absolved PSU's Football Program of the false accusations levied by the NCAA and b1g shiz-hole and both parties were forced to unwind their illegitimate, false and unfair sanctions against PSU. Funny how the "presumption of innocence" and support for PSU from the b1g shiz-hole worked in the diametric opposite fashion than it did in regards to both tO$U and scUM who abused the b1g shiz-hole's "bias" and made the b1g shiz-hole look like the hypocrites they are by lying to the NCAA and b1g shiz-hole out of unmitigated self-interest.
Because the Big Ten is not concerned with publicly admitting that they aren't the best at everything... Maybe the officials get a free pass or maybe they get poor performance reviews, who knows... I doubt we'd ever know about it though.
How about conference commissioners who re-instate players who took illegal benefits to play in a bowl game so the TO$ U wouldn't be embarrassed by another SEC team trouncing them in a bowl game? Delaney would do that for every BIG team right?
Please show me where bad calls went against O $ U? Miami would love to see that too. The official crosses his arms incomplete and then eight seconds later, eight seconds later!, the same official remembers, oh wait, fix this for OlieO $ tate and then calls a bogus PI on Miami. You remember, the season where that Rhoades Scholar Maurice Clarrett played.
So, if the problem is with corrupt B1G officials, who was officiating the OSU/Miami game? It sure wasn't the B1G crew.
Oh, that's right...OSU has paid off the officials from all conferences to ensure their ongoing success.
Well we keep seeing them and the bad calls keep coming. Keeping them around is not how you improve in something that is far from average, let alone approaching outstanding. And I thought the B1G "aspires to be tops in everything". Seems more like the officials are their "Louis Freeh's" on the field, thus they get to keep coming back with the blessings of the B1G.
From what I have read, Iowa OKed Rudock to Michigan because the teams did not play each other on the 2015 schedule.
"which, in turn, begets the greater revenue from advertisers". Don't you mean consumers? Where do the advertisers get their money?
If you're serious, what you're saying is that a 7-5 Michigan team is more valuable and will bring in more dollars than Penn State potentially playing for a national title (though I still think they would have had a really hard time jumping Texas or USC).
I was going to post the same meme in response to your post.
And FYI, team "values" are very elastic with on field records. What I mean is, a PSU team that consistently finishes in the top 4 in the league, but never wins it, has about the same value to the league as a PSU team that wins it pretty consistently.
The real value isn't from bowl revenue as you seem to imply. The real value realized when the next TV deal is inked.
Explain the motivation to perpetuate and facilitate a bias that benefits tOSU and Michigan?
Explain nothing ....I can see the results of their actions. Explain why its not. If this was truly just bad officiating, we would have seen changes implemented to fix what's broken. Rather, we continue to have the same broken recorded played on and on with it skipping at the same point in the song, yet know one changes the record.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Maybe, but he lived in Michigan and has for some time. And Dick Honig lived in Ann Arbor. Here's an article from 2002 (before instant replay):
Football: Paterno makes concerns official
Red flags Big Ten for crew assignments
Wednesday, October 16, 2002
By Ray Fittipaldo, Post-Gazette Sports Writer
When Penn State Coach Joe Paterno met with Athletic Director Tim Curley and other Penn State athletic personnel Monday morning they discussed the problems with the officiating in the Big Ten.
Curley then sent a letter to conference commissioner Jim Delany, asking for a review of the conference policies on officials which would include policies on crew assignments, performance evaluation, technology, accountability and the recruitment and training of officials.
Yesterday during his weekly teleconference with reporters, Paterno made clear his biggest concern was the conference policies concerning crew assignments. He's concerned that personal bias could be a factor among officials who work games in their home states.
Three of the officials who worked Penn State's 27-24 overtime loss at Michigan Stadium on Saturday reside in Michigan. Referee David Witvoet lives in Plainwell, Mich; umpire Tony Payne in Lansing, Mich; and back judge Dino Paganelli in Wyoming, Mich. The other officials were: Daniel Capron, of Chicago, who was reprimanded by the conference earlier this season for poor performance; line judge Tom Ransom of Frankfort, Ind; field judge James Filson of Bollingbrook, Ill.; and side judge Terry Anderson from Mineral Point, Wis.
The crew called Penn State for six penalties for 46 yards; Michigan twice for nine yards. Witvoet's crew also worked last year's game at University Park, a Michigan 20-0 victory, in which Penn State was called for six penalties for 50 yards, Michigan once for 5. Witvoet's crew has worked three of the past six games involving Penn State and Michigan. In the games his crew worked this season, last season and in 1997, Penn State was penalized 19 times for 151 yards. Michigan was penalized eight times for 38 yards. When Witvoet's crew did not work, Penn State was penalized 17 times for 145 yards, Michigan 27 times for 206.
"You try not to be paranoid," Paterno said. "But the same crew that did this game did last year's game. Last year [Michigan] had one penalty called against them; this year two. So you start to wonder and you look at it. It starts to get obvious when you start to look at tapes and wonder why things weren't called. I am sure that happens to people who play against us. You don't expect people to be perfect, but you start to get concerned when it gets to be a little lopsided."
The crew made at least four incorrect calls during the game. The most obvious officiating mistake came with 40 seconds remaining, when Tony Johnson caught a pass near the sidelines at the Michigan 22. Johnson got both feet in bounds, but an official ruled he did not get either foot down. There were several other questionable calls that went against both teams, many that occurred late in the game and changed its course.
Paterno also expressed concern that the officials working Saturday's game met with Big Ten referee Dick Honig, who lives in Ann Arbor, Mich. and had a run-in with Paterno after Penn State lost an overtime game against Iowa Sept. 28. He also pointed out that only four officials employed by the conference are from Pennsylvania. Seventeen conference officials are from Illinois, 11 are from Ohio, seven from Michigan, five from Indiana, four each from Iowa and Minnesota and three from Wisconsin.
"I expressed some concerns I had with Tim, and Tim is in the process of making some decisions," Paterno said. "I'm not sure what can be done. We're concerned about the same crew working this year's game and last year's game. There were some concerns about the fact three of them live in Michigan. There were some concerns that some of them said to me that they had met with Dick Honig, who was the guy I had some problems with at the Iowa game, who lives in Ann Arbor. Those are the kinds of things they should be looking at. Not necessarily that anybody is incompetent. We are all human beings and have friends and impulses. I think that is what Penn State would like to see done.
"Just reexamine how the officials are assigned. It is tough. We are a border state. There are [four] officials from Pennsylvania in the Big Ten. One of whom played for me, Bob Bassett, who can't get a Penn State game. You want to know why. There should be some kind of policy. It's just that, 'Let's take a look at it.' "
Penn State's request for a review of the conference's policies with officials was met with a one-paragraph response in the form of a statement from Delany: "Penn State director of athletics Tim Curley has communicated to me concerns regarding the conference football officiating program. In the spirit of openness, as we have done previously with other Big Ten institutions, we have asked Penn State for a detailed critique of its concerns and will provide a candid and detailed response."
Curley said yesterday the university went public because his hope is that his colleagues and conference coaches would join the crusade. Judging from their responses yesterday, Penn State won't have to do much lobbying. Conference coaches yesterday were overjoyed that that a conference heavyweight decided to publicly denounce the state of officiating.
"Absolutely, unequivocally yes," Purdue Coach Joe Tiller responded when asked whether the conference should conduct a review of its practices.
Tiller complained about the officiating after a 24-21 loss to Wake Forest Sept. 21, and the conference responded by suspending four officials for an indeterminate period. One of the officials worked the Penn State-Michigan game.
Tiller said there is a lack of qualified officials working games.
"There is a talent drain," Tiller said. "We have had a number of officials move on to the NFL. I can empathize, not sympathize, with the conference. Your pool changes. I wonder about the availability of talent. It would appear to me there are many things we could do. I see calls being made by people who are not in position to make calls."
"We have to look at how we hire, fire, reward, how we penalize and base it all on performance," said Illinois Coach Ron Turner, who is a major proponent of instant replay. Other coaches are starting to come around on that subject, including, it appears, Paterno.
Paterno dismissed the use of replay after two questionable calls might have cost his team in the overtime loss to Iowa. But he sounded as if he was in the process of changing his mind yesterday.
"My concern with that is I don't want to overreact," he said. "When things don't go your way, you have a tendency to overreact. When the Big Ten coaches get together next, hopefully that will be on the agenda with Dave Parry and whoever else the commissioner thinks is appropriate. We ought to talk it out.
"I have never been for instant replay. ... When it's appropriate, when the discussion is relevant, we'll talk it out and maybe I'll have a change of heart."
Well, there's no maybe about it. He is a native of Iowa.
And I have to laugh every time you guys bring up Honig. Two former PSU football players worked as B1G officials. No problem with that, right?
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
How many of them reffed Penn State games? Read the article I posted; this shit goes back a long, long time - looking forward to all your laughter and more misdirection.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I know that in his first year or two he worked a couple of UM games. It was then decided he shouldn't work any more. All this occurred prior to PSU entering the conference. It would be like me complaining about PSU using a player's uncle to work games prior to joining the B1G. None of it had an impact on PSU.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Didn't say Honig's games impacted PSU - was merely answering your question. Goes a long way towards establishing the kind of asinine antics this conference was willing to allow; yeah, let's a have a Michigan graduate and former coach ref three games in the Big House. Let's have a crew composed of mostly Michigan residents ref Michigan games. Great ideas.
So what your saying is the B1G conference is no better than PSU when it comes to asinine antics. After all, you guys used a players uncle to officiate games. Now that is a great idea.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Source? Which games? Bad idea all the way around if true - but, not taking your word for it; will wait for the source and games.
You can thank PSU for your BTN. Without PSU there would be no BTN. You're welcome
Ok, there is no evidence of a conspiracy and no clear motive for one, then why would you think that there is a conspiracy. Isn't it just a lot more likely that Delaney is looking out for the Big Ten as a whole and individuals are imperfect and may be biased sometimes?
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
It's more than this - not only does Iowa have to give the OK (and, when they are FINALLY given a chance to stick it to Michigan they pass?), but the B1G has to also waive their policy of having Rudock sit a year, which they did. Lucky for Michigan, right? I mean, what would Iowa have thought if they had to face Rudock in the B1G Championship Game? If Michigan gets there with Rudock (and they nearly did) and beats Iowa, Ferentz is probably looking for a job (or would be if I were the AD). Something about a smell in Denmark suddenly strikes me...
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If you believe that, then you must believe in the tooth fairy! Too many times and too many calls that benefit Michigan and Ohio State. When's the last time a call or calls went PSU's way that allowed us to win against these two? Answer me that. I bet you can't.
The best was when Jim Delany openly campaigned to reinstate the eligibility of 6 Ohio State football players like Terrelle Pryor who blatantly violated NCAA rules for a big B1G vs SEC bowl game, and then piled on PSU and stole our bowl money despite violating zero NCAA rules. The B1G even waived in-conference transfer restrictions so Big Ten teams could raid Penn State's roster while making other transfer exceptions to bail Michigan out at the QB position. Awesome.
When's the last time PSU has benefited from a bad call that allowed us to beat either OSU or Michigan?
I have three pretty obvious ones for you:
1) On reviews for targeting, this year, every single one (either for a Michigan player or for an opposing player on a Michigan player) went against Michigan. This included one in which the Michigan player (who was ejected) was pushed by a linemen onto the QB prompting the announcers to say not only shouldn't that have been targeting but it should have been a penalty on the other team.
2) The last time the divisions were redone and schedules reworked, Michigan had to play MSU on the road for a second straight year.
3) The first time they split the divisions both tOSU and Michigan lobbied hard to be in the same one. Delaney didn't care and split us up. This also created the potential for unbalanced SOS (not in the favor of either program) because it became a protected cross-over game.
OH WAIT, you where looking for examples that show a bias IN FAVOR of tOSU and Umich...sorry, I don't have any of those...the closest I have is that Michigan and tOSU have gotten picked for certain bowls like the Outback or Citrus/Cap1 over schools that don't travel as well but that is the bowl committees having a bias towards making money.
Aside from the pass interference obviously, any one of those calls, called correctly, ends the game in regulation with Ohio State up 17-14.
Oh I know exactly where the real revenue is. And the TV deal is driven by what the networks can sell advertising for, which is driven by how many people are watching the games. More people will watch the games if they're between top 10 ranked teams. More people will watch Penn State if they're competing for a national title at the end of the year. Penn State is more valuable to the Big Ten TV contracts at 12-0 at the end of the 2005 and 2008 regular seasons than Michigan and Iowa are at 7-4 and 8-4. The Big Ten would be getting a bigger contract than they're going to get if Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan had traded and played national titles over the past decade like Alabama, LSU and Auburn.
Tell me where the upside is for the Big Ten to acquire Penn State, one of the biggest brands in the sport, and systematically devalue it over two decades? You don't have depreciation to write off, you only get the value on the upside.
So why would Iowa do this? Why would they listen to the Big Ten to potentially jeopardize their season? A playoff appearance is better for Iowa than Michigan winning 9-10 games. What is the Big Ten going to do to force Iowa to release Rudock?
Well, going back to 2006, OSU's average margin of victory over PSU has been 22.4 points; it's hard to argue that a blown call here or there was to blame. PSU's average margin of victory in that same span was 6.5 points...
You're kinda thick, as I already explained this to you.
A B1G conference with Penn State fighting for the scraps behind OSU and UM is still more valuable (way more valuable) than a B1G conference without Penn State.
With a school like Penn State -- which attracts good (relatively) ratings regardless of whether or not they beat OSU or UM that season -- from a value perspective, it is not necessary to break the OSU/UM bias to get net positive value. With Penn State, the B1G could have their cake and eat it too.
Things in this world don't get more obvious/plain than that. Your bias is the only reason of which I can think that can explain why you aren't getting it.
And tOSU has had back to backs at home vs various opponents. And against Penn State in 2010/2011. It's an artifact of scheduling when you don't have a true round robin. As I'm sure you already know.
Don't forget about the receiver who admitted that they were handed cash and vehicle deals! OSU is as corrupt as they come.
Hard to argue? Come on! Name one egregious call or calls that went against either OSU or Michigan that led to a PSU win?
Naturally, and it happened several times as they've added teams (2010/11 was the result of adding Nebraska to the schedules) or gone to 9-game conference schedules and back (and probably again when they go back to 9 again, but I haven't looked into it). That doesn't mean everyone occasionally plays back-to-back away games against everyone though. Ohio State's never played at Michigan back-to-back, for instance. If there were some conspiracy for Ohio State and/or against Penn State, they wouldn't have let it happen.
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