USA Wrestling's Statement on Social Justice

[Hazy_Davey]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:

The last week has been very difficult for me personally. As I have watched on TV the rampant violence, looting and overall lawlessness I find myself very angry and shaken. I find it appalling the amount of people and "leaders" condoning or excusing the behavior of many of these "protestors". Watching the rioters burn the Minneapolis police precinct after the police abandoned it was particularly infuriating and sad. I am concerned for the future of our country if we continue down some of the paths we have taken as a nation.

That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is

Officer Chauvin's actions were outrageous and criminal, and I condemn them

Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:


That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

You obviously lack reading comprehension if that's all you got out of psalm 1's post.

I love it when looter apologists say "the stores have insurance". Some don't. Even for those that do, many of these items are unique or rare and can't be recovered. Even with insurance many of these stores, already hit hard by COVID-19, will not be coming back. For some that do come back, they will abandon the downtowns and move to safer neighborhoods. And to top it off, many of these stores are minority owned. Where's your compassion for them?

 

[Thenightking]

Hmmm? I'm going to take a wild guess that hazy davey is not a small business owner, because he is has no idea how devastating it is to have a business you worked your whole life to build destroyed in one night by riots and looting. Also its a racist statement to say that this board skews white and old by our posts,who are you to make that assumption. What an idiot!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

@hazeydave For your benefit, here's a well done commentary by the opposite of an old, white, conservative guy:

 

[David Keller]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:
We are not a racist country.

That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

 

[El-Jefe]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:


That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

Moral Equivalence Meter doesn't register this high.

 

[82bordeaux]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:


That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

I'm rarely speechless. I have no words.

 

[lookleft goright]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:


That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

I want to say just a couple things.
1) When you say Colin protested peacefully and people had a fit, you can also mention that many people applauded him. The country is pretty divided and someone always seems to be on the other side of every argument.
2) The problem most people had with Colin is that he was not accomplishing anything. Where as many people think the looting is horrific and needs to stop, I am going to guess that it will invoke change. There is a lot of pain to go around here. Almost everyone feels pain for George Floyd and almost everyone feels pain for innocent people killed in the riots and people who lost their business etc in the looting. As much as I hate to see the message (of police brutality) hijacked by Antifa and BLM, I am going to guess that some laws will be changed. Who knows what will happen or if it will help, but action is going to be taken.
3) Until we start to see what the real problems are and discuss them and work to solve them, the problems will not go away. Focusing on being black as a problem is foolish! Why? Because it cannot be solved. You are born black and you will die black (Michael jackson as the possible exception). Being denied a job or coming from a single family home with no stability, or being raised around a culture of drug dealing and people without job or discipline, or being raised in a culture where you are told you are a victim and someone else is the cause of your misery, or being sent to sub standard schools - those are problems that can be solved or at least addressed.
4) The race with the most single parent homes and the most leaders telling them that their misery and problems are someone else fault happens to be the race that takes the most generations to get out of poverty and the happens to be the black community. Lets work to solve those problems and see what happens.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Now I know this board skews old, white, and conservative, and I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but I need to say my piece. Let me just start with:


That's some really strong visceral feelings toward the looting, but when one of your former brothers in blue knelt on another man's neck for almost 10min while he told the officers he couldn't breathe, people filmed it happen, and 3 other officers stood by watching it happen the best you can come up with is



Now Psalm guy, you seem like a pretty stand up guy, but if that's your reaction to property being destroyed vs a human life being taken, that's a problem. These stores and property being damaged have insurance, they'll get rebuilt. You can't bring back a human or replace his presence in his families life.

"Oh why can't they just protest peacefully, no one would have a problem with that." You all say, but maybe ask Colin Kaepernick how that went. He knelt quietly before a football game and everyone lost their minds. One prominent poster on this board was so triggered by it he still feels the need to voice his stance on that peaceful protest years later, and it sure didn't end police brutality toward black people or we wouldn't be having this conversation. So how exactly should they protest? You think if a bunch of black folks showed up armed to the teeth at capital building, police would treat them the same way they treated the anti-lockdown protectors? If you answered yes, you're a liar or delusional and if you answered no you just admitted that racial bias in policing is a huge issue. Just look at how the reactions to the two different protests differ. Also seen here, here, here, here, and a bunch more here.

For those of you arguing "oh it's only a few bad actors, every profession has people that don't meet expectations. Being a Cop is hard" Ok, but for most people at work their "screw ups(a horribly callused word to use for something that resulting in the loss of a life)" at work don't kill people. Doctors are another profession where life hangs in the balance of their competence, but at least if they kill someone through negligence they can be sued. Cops can't be. Also it's not just a few bad actors, it's a systemic way we police this country from coast to coast. As seen by:

-This study which found that police were more likely to pull over black drivers. The researchers were able to confirm racial bias by measuring daytime stops against nighttime stops, when darkness would make it more difficult to ascertain a driver’s race. They also found that black and Latino drivers are more likely to be searched for contraband, even though white drivers are consistently more likely to be found with contraband.

-This study which found "a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average. The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”

-This study that found while black youths make up 14 percent of the youth population they make up 53 percent of minors transferred to adult court for offenses against persons, despite the fact that white and black youth make up nearly an equal percentage of youth charged with such offenses.

There are a whole lot more of these studies(every word is a different study)

So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country, when even our own football players have racial slurs thrown at them just for pumping gas, or to condemn the rioting and looting more so than the police killings of minorities, is sickening. You can pretend you're having a calm reasonable discussion with each other but you're really just patting each other on the back confirming your already biased viewpoints. Since you all seem so outraged by the rioting and looting I hope you're all going to call your local school boards and make sure teachers put in a blurb around the Boston tea party saying how we now condemn the actions the founding fathers took and they really should have protested peacefully, as long as it didn't involve kneeling in front of the British flag.

Your feelings are not falling on deaf ears with me and I welcome your perspective/feelings. I will address a few of your points:

--- I am old (56!), white and conservative, but is that a sin or weakness? Is being young, black and liberal inherently noble or inherently bad? I truly try to judge a person by their character and behavior. I could speak at length about identity politics and the trend of judging someone as good or bad by the number or type of boxes they check off. I find this trending perspective/philosophy detrimental.
--- I stated, "Officer Chauvin's actions were outrageous and criminal, and I condemn them" It is a short statement, I agree, but I was giving bullet points. If we were having a personal conversation I would have obviously gone into greater detail. The only thing I might have added even in a bullet point is that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I condemn his behavior completely.
--- You said, "So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country . . . Racism is definitely a problem in our country, with greater pockets in some areas of the country than others (please see one of my previous posts where I talked with a black man who had grown up in St, Louis), but I do not agree we are inherently a racist country. That generalization does not ring true from my experience (I grew up in a small town in Oregon and have spent the last 33 years in San Diego). I believe great strides have been made in the last few decades in the area of race relations, especially with our young people. It is common, at least in San Diego, to see multi-racial couples and families. That was very uncommon just a few decades ago. What I see unfortunately, though, is race being used by both sides of the political spectrum to solidify their voting base and create division.
--- You seem to think I devalue the taking of a life compared to how I value property crimes. I don't. My greater point was that the widespread violence, including murder, and criminal activity we are seeing is disheartening and downright scary to me. To watch all of that behavior punches me in the gut, and I won't minimize my feelings. I spent 32 years of my life "serving and protecting" and to see this widespread antisocial and criminal behavior saddens me. I understand how these victims feel because I spent my career seeing the devastating effect crime has on people, no matter their race or socioeconomic situation.
--- You talk about "Brothers in blue" in relation to my statement regarding Officer Chauvin's actions. My standard for judging officers is the same for how I judge anyone else. I don't agree with the "blue wall of silence" when it comes to protecting bad officers. That is why I said Officer Chauvin's actions were criminal. You won't hear me condoning abusive or racist officers.
--- I will always support the right for people to engage in peaceful protests, and I will always condemn looting, violence and riotous behavior.
--- I support your right to express your opinions and concerns. Just because you and I see things differently does not mean we can't be respectful and caring in our interactions. It may sound naive, but as a Christian I believe in the power of love (God's love toward us and ours toward others as we try to honor and serve him) to change human hearts. I believe the greatest strides will be made when we choose to love our neighbors as ourselves, especially those neighbors who disagree with us. Respectfully, Gaylon

 

[82bordeaux]

--- I support your right to express your opinions and concerns. Just because you and I see things differently does not mean we can't be respectful and caring in our interactions. It may sound naive, but as a Christian I believe in the power of love (God's love toward us and ours toward others as we try to honor and serve him) to change human hearts. I believe the greatest strides will be made when we choose to love our neighbors as ourselves, especially those neighbors who disagree with us. Respectfully, Gaylon[/QUOTE]


I had no words. I'm glad you did. I'd be so happy to meet you in person some day...better days are ahead.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Your feelings are not falling on deaf ears with me and I welcome your perspective/feelings. I will address a few of your points:

--- I am old (56!), white and conservative, but is that a sin or weakness? Is being young, black and liberal inherently noble or inherently bad? I truly try to judge a person by their character and behavior. I could speak at length about identity politics and the trend of judging someone as good or bad by the number or type of boxes they check off. I find this trending perspective/philosophy detrimental.
--- I stated, "Officer Chauvin's actions were outrageous and criminal, and I condemn them" It is a short statement, I agree, but I was giving bullet points. If we were having a personal conversation I would have obviously gone into greater detail. The only thing I might have added even in a bullet point is that he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I condemn his behavior completely.
--- You said, "So for people on here to sit back and say we're not a racist country . . . Racism is definitely a problem in our country, with greater pockets in some areas of the country than others (please see one of my previous posts where I talked with a black man who had grown up in St, Louis), but I do not agree we are inherently a racist country. That generalization does not ring true from my experience (I grew up in a small town in Oregon and have spent the last 33 years in San Diego). I believe great strides have been made in the last few decades in the area of race relations, especially with our young people. It is common, at least in San Diego, to see multi-racial couples and families. That was very uncommon just a few decades ago. What I see unfortunately, though, is race being used by both sides of the political spectrum to solidify their voting base and create division.
--- You seem to think I devalue the taking of a life compared to how I value property crimes. I don't. My greater point was that the widespread violence, including murder, and criminal activity we are seeing is disheartening and downright scary to me. To watch all of that behavior punches me in the gut, and I won't minimize my feelings. I spent 32 years of my life "serving and protecting" and to see this widespread antisocial and criminal behavior saddens me. I understand how these victims feel because I spent my career seeing the devastating effect crime has on people, no matter their race or socioeconomic situation.
--- You talk about "Brothers in blue" in relation to my statement regarding Officer Chauvin's actions. My standard for judging officers is the same for how I judge anyone else. I don't agree with the "blue wall of silence" when it comes to protecting bad officers. That is why I said Officer Chauvin's actions were criminal. You won't hear me condoning abusive or racist officers.
--- I will always support the right for people to engage in peaceful protests, and I will always condemn looting, violence and riotous behavior.
--- I support your right to express your opinions and concerns. Just because you and I see things differently does not mean we can't be respectful and caring in our interactions. It may sound naive, but as a Christian I believe in the power of love (God's love toward us and ours toward others as we try to honor and serve him) to change human hearts. I believe the greatest strides will be made when we choose to love our neighbors as ourselves, especially those neighbors who disagree with us. Respectfully, Gaylon

Your even-handedness at addressing a very sensitive topic is quite refreshing and inspiring. Thank you.

 

[oldcougar65]

I'm old and white. But after being confronted with too many painfully hard facts, I'm not conservative. This has to change. Anyone with a smidgen of compassion, seeing what is happening in New York City must be horrified by the actions of the NYPD. They are militarized. They are racist. They don't give a damn about the Constitution. Freedom of speech? Screw it. Peaceful protest? Stuff your damn peaceful protest. After a few batons to the head, see if you come out to tomorrow's 'peaceful protest'.
trump calls the peaceful protesters near the White House 'terrorists'. The terrorists were the militarized police that attacked those protesters with gas and flash-bang grenades and pepper bullets. just to clear a path for trump to get a photo-op in front of a church that didn't want him there. And now he's turning the White House into a fortress. He's a coward and he's a bully. (The two usually go together.) He's earned his newest nickname, "bunker boy".

 

[The Dueceman]

Let's just hope those peaceful protesters don't decide to make a stop at your home or business. I'm sure you could win them over with your compassion.

 

[82bordeaux]

@oldcougar65 I appreciate the passion and have a hard time disagreeing with anything you have written, but we should try to avoid politicizing this specific issue. What has been some great thoughtful discussion will go down the tubes and turn into a dead end street.
The additional facts that have come out about the George Floyd case highlight the problem. Two of the three additional officers arrested were on the job for 3 and 4 shifts respectively. The training officers were Chauvin and Thao. Two officers that probably should have no longer been wearing badges were assigned to train two young men. The Chief of Police should be fired over that. The union may be blocking the firing of those two (Chauvin and Thao), but they would have nothing to do with having them assigned to train new officers. THAT is the PROBLEM folks. They have a management problem. Chiefs are not effectively trained in management techniques that have to do with culture change. It is empowerment without establishing a culture of morality within your organization. The Minneapolis Chief of Police deserves every sleepless night he has coming. The fact he had these two bozos training young officers is mind boggling.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Here's a recent Reuters article on qualified immunity

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-scotus/

I can recall at least one nationals semifinal match where Nolf nearly needed qualified immunity after they scraped the near lifeless body of Jordan off the mat. Who can argue that wasn't the use of excessive force?

 

[liex26]

Here’s a wiki entry on the Citizens United case. Yeah, I know, Wikipedia, but it’s impossible to find a fairly neutral discussion of the case. Suffice it to say that this case opened all the floodgates for money to flow into our political system and further corrupt it. It is renowned for treating corporations, in the context of speech, as people even though these entities are treated as the artificial entities they are in other legal spheres. If a corporation wants to be treated as a person, well fine. Let’s do it across the board - say goodbye to limited liability Mr. CEO. I say this as a political moderate in many respects, but this ruling has been a disaster

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

I know I'm late to the party on this thread, but your post hits on part of the issue for sure.
Here is a nice site that some of us might find useful when buying products. It rates Brands positive or negative based on how they influence politics, whether blue or red.
https://www.goodsuniteus.com/

 

[liex26]

Your even-handedness at addressing a very sensitive topic is quite refreshing and inspiring. Thank you.

I'm glad the person you agree with sounds even-handed.

I don't know anything about Psalm 1, other than he is white, conservative, Christian, former cop.
While it certainly doesn't exclude him from this conversation, every single one of those attributes makes him biased. Probably more so than most.
He's been a part of the biggest boys club in the US for dozens of years. A group of men well documented to not betray one another even when they know a fellow officer has done wrong.
If it sounds like the mistrust he spoke of, it is.
I've personally experienced police brutality twice, and witnessed it several more times. I've been to court as a plaintiff and as a witness, I've seen how the system works for cops.
I'm white. I can only get a glimpse now and then of how stacked the system is against people of color because my children are mixed race.
I do not believe police, they lie as much or more than the people they arrest. I don't trust them as you can watch any video and see the tactics they use to get information from suspects, pretending to be friendly etc.
I do not like police because of they way they speak to and treat other human beings.
BTW, I'm also a small business owner.
Of course I don't want to be looted, or have my business destroyed. Nor anyone else. I've been to protests, so far they have been peaceful. I also understand how things work. When the top brass condones hate, the bravery of the other haters become evident. It's OK again to be a racist in this country. The way things get changed is when attention is brought to it.

I'm sick of it. I've chosen my side already. When it's over I won't be on the wrong side of history.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

I'm glad the person you agree with sounds even-handed.

I don't know anything about Psalm 1, other than he is white, conservative, Christian, former cop.
While it certainly doesn't exclude him from this conversation, every single one of those attributes makes him biased. Probably more so than most.
He's been a part of the biggest boys club in the US for dozens of years. A group of men well documented to not betray one another even when they know a fellow officer has done wrong.
If it sounds like the mistrust he spoke of, it is.
I've personally experienced police brutality twice, and witnessed it several more times. I've been to court as a plaintiff and as a witness, I've seen how the system works for cops.
I'm white. I can only get a glimpse now and then of how stacked the system is against people of color because my children are mixed race.
I do not believe police, they lie as much or more than the people they arrest. I don't trust them as you can watch any video and see the tactics they use to get information from suspects, pretending to be friendly etc.
I do not like police because of they way they speak to and treat other human beings.
BTW, I'm also a small business owner.
Of course I don't want to be looted, or have my business destroyed. Nor anyone else. I've been to protests, so far they have been peaceful. I also understand how things work. When the top brass condones hate, the bravery of the other haters become evident. It's OK again to be a racist in this country. The way things get changed is when attention is brought to it.

I'm sick of it. I've chosen my side already. When it's over I won't be on the wrong side of history.

You do bring up an excellent point. Our life experiences lead to biases on how we interact and view other people. Perhaps you're overapplying your bias on an entire group of people.

 

[NoVa Lion]

You do bring up an excellent point. Our life experiences lead to biases on how we interact and view other people. Perhaps you're overapplying your bias on an entire group of people.

Ditto that.

 

[liex26]

You do bring up an excellent point. Our life experiences lead to biases on how we interact and view other people. Perhaps you're overapplying your bias on an entire group of people.

I'm very well aware of what I'm doing. One of those is a controllable occupation, the other is a race that one is born into.
I always find it interesting also that the people who most often bring up god, are the same ones more upset about personal property than loss of life.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

You do bring up an excellent point. Our life experiences lead to biases on how we interact and view other people. Perhaps you're overapplying your bias on an entire group of people.

That said, Liex doesn’t have the power of the state behind him. There is some scary shit going on when we have some policing forces in streets of our major cities that seem to be totally out of control and others who cannot be identified by badge or name tag (it appears there are random SORT teams from the Bureau of Prisons that have been brought into some areas). This isn’t paranoid stuff - people have at least been able to spot small identifying patches from actual federal prisons). I guess if you can’t get the military to do your bidding, you gather up these rag-tag outfits that are not beholden to an elected official like a Governor. What next - “contractors” from Erik Prince’s company?

I say this as a 52 year old, white, somewhat old school guy who is now a moderate but worked on Capitol Hill for conservative senators. I’m pretty appalled at the current situation and it’s not the protestors who concern me. Liex is right - some very noxious ideologies have been given some life recently, but at least they’re now in the open.

 

[nittinsc]

It's good to see different peoples perspectives on this issue. Hopefully it will lead to better understanding by all. I've long believed that bias and racism is something that one needs to actively consider, rather than claim that one is not biased. Our brains categorize and sort everything by size, shape, color, and many other attributes which may work well for inanimate objects. When this human process is blindly applied to people, bias and racism can result, even in supposedly well-intentioned people.
One never reaches a point when they are unbiased, but must always consider whether bias plays a role in their thoughts and actions.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

That said, Liex doesn’t have the power of the state behind him. There is some scary shit going on when we have some policing forces in streets of our major cities that seem to be totally out of control and others who cannot be identified by badge or name tag (it appears there are random SORT teams from the Bureau of Prisons that have been brought into some areas). This isn’t paranoid stuff - people have at least been able to spot small identifying patches from actual federal prisons). I guess if you can’t get the military to do your bidding, you gather up these rag-tag outfits that are not beholden to an elected official like a Governor. What next - “contractors” from Erik Prince’s company?

I say this as a 52 year old, white, somewhat old school guy who is now a moderate but worked on Capitol Hill for conservative senators. I’m pretty appalled at the current situation and it’s not the protestors who concern me. Liex is right - some very noxious ideologies have been given some life recently, but at least they’re now in the open.

My reply to Liex was intended to improve the level of discussion. In his post he essentially dismissed Psalm 1's opinions as biased because he is white, Christian and a former cop. Liex then painted an entire group of people based on his own biases. It's a logical fallacy and a worthwhile discussion can't be held in this position.

You, on the other hand, have brought up specific circumstances that can be discussed. I'm curious about the SORT teams. Where have you heard of this taking place? An armed force not in the control of local authorities would indeed be troubling.

 

[oldcougar65]

You, on the other hand, have brought up specific circumstances that can be discussed. I'm curious about the SORT teams. Where have you heard of this taking place? An armed force not in the control of local authorities would indeed be troubling.

The forces that pushed back against the peaceful protestors near the White House - and all observers agreed they were peaceful except one (guess who), had a number of operatives unidentified by name badges or uniforms. Some it was admited were SORT forces. Others were from ATF, FBI, Secret Service (maybe we should call them SS) - name a lettered agency. No names, no uniforms, no accountablilty. Our country is in crisis and it's time to choose: democracy or facism.

 

[nittinsc]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/inv...-wearing-insignia-from-texas-federal-prisons/

 

[Cali_Nittany]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/inv...-wearing-insignia-from-texas-federal-prisons/

Wow

 

[nittinsc]

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/...cle_631b2879-db29-52b6-9a1a-648a79c80e8e.html

 

[Thenightking]

ah, lets keep it real and remember that the night before they cleared out the peaceful??? protestors from Lafayette park, 60, 60!! secret service agents were injured from the peaceful protesters ?? throwing bricks and water bottles filled with cement. The peaceful protesters angle is for a lot of low information people who just watch MSNBC!!! Come get me,. I think we need to agree to disagree and end these non wrestling posts!!

 

[johnstownsteel]

Jeesh...wished I would of stayed away from this thread. Crazy how a persons perception of other board members can change once you start hearing their political views. Lol

 

[Chickenman Testa]

ah, lets keep it real and remember that the night before they cleared out the peaceful??? protestors from Lafayette park, 60, 60!! secret service agents were injured from the peaceful protesters ?? throwing bricks and water bottles filled with cement. The peaceful protesters angle is for a lot of low information people who just watch MSNBC!!! Come get me,. I think we need to agree to disagree and end these non wrestling posts!!

And those people need to spend some time behind bars.

 

[Thenightking]

My perception of people never changes when I know there political views. I have dear friends on both ends of the political spectrum. We just respect each others opinions and can talk about it without getting angry with each other. Now lets get back to talking about wrestling!!! I think we are going to have an awesome team this year! Way better than most people think! Look out Iowa!!!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

My perception of people never changes when I know there political views. I have dear friends on both ends of the political spectrum. We just respect each others opinions and can talk about it without getting angry with each other. Now lets get back to talking about wrestling!!! I think we are going to have an awesome team this year! Way better than most people think! Look out Iowa!!!

HE’S GOT THE CHIN!!!!!!

Can’t wait to see how the new guys look

 

[Thenightking]

Robbie,RBY,Nick,Verk,Brady,Joe,Star,Arron,Beard ,and Kerk, oh my!!!!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

@Chickenman Testa @Thenightking

 

[nerfstate]

@Chickenman Testa @Thenightking

Props to the guy in the grey sweatshirt in the front row for having the best quick twitch in the crowd.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

My perception of people never changes when I know there political views. I have dear friends on both ends of the political spectrum. We just respect each others opinions and can talk about it without getting angry with each other. Now lets get back to talking about wrestling!!! I think we are going to have an awesome team this year! Way better than most people think! Look out Iowa!!!

Back to wrestling for me : )

 

[Lyons212]

Jeesh...wished I would of stayed away from this thread. Crazy how a persons perception of other board members can change once you start hearing their political views. Lol

Here is a tweet from Kirstie Alley that sums up the situation right now...


My thoughts exactly.

I should probably stop right now, but what the heck:
1. Kaepernick is out of the NFL because he wants to be. He terminated his contract with the 49ers. He then expected another team to give him starter money and position when he just came off of a stretch of 4 and 15 as a starter. The Ravens almost signed him as a backup, that was scuttled with his girl friend attacked the owner and called Ray Lewis an uncle Tom and Kap stayed quiet. At this point he has been out of the league too long to get nothing more than a camp invite and he is not interested in that. He loses credibility when he wears socks depicting the cops as pigs.
2. My issue with the kneeling is that I believe political speech should be kept out of the work place. My employer does not allow it, we have a diverse work force that functions well. Once you allow it, then all political speech has to be allowed. Anybody want to see a white power or Nazi salute during the national anthem? Would anybody be offended and complain if an employee of a store was wearing a MAGA hat, most likely would be complaints. Simple as that. No problem if the anybody engages in peaceful political speech outside the work place. The 1st amendment is all about the right to criticize the government which is why as a political conservative I oppose flag burning amendments.
3. I do not trust law enforcement, look at what the FBI did to General Flynn. Sadly, many liberals have not even heard of it. I am also a white conservative how knows about police nonsense from a personal level. I have been bounced off the wall, cuffed, finger printed, mugshot, have to post bail and then have the police officer have to admit in court he did not see me do anything. I tell my kids, you do not talk to the police without a lawyer present, if you do your an idiot. Did I say I am a white conservative.
4. BLM losses me when they only focus on the black lives lost. Tony Timpa choked to death by the Dallas police, Daniel Shaver, Justin Damond just to name a few, all white, all killed by the cops, no protests. Heck Damond was killed by a black Minneapolis cop a few years ago and it took 6 months to charge the cop. Curious minds would like to know why it took 6 months. Not a peep from BLM regarding David Dorn or WIlliam Patterson, black men protecting property killed by rioters. The sad thing is that the most danger to a black person in the USA today is another black person.
5. Defund the police, what a stupid idea. I live in the Baltimore area, right now you cannot walk around any part of Baltimore without your head on a swivel. It is sad. I coach at a track club in the suburbs, had a black mother and father tell me, they stay out of Baltimore. Most of my black co-workers avoid Baltimore. Just imagine if there are not cops. Now if you are talking improving policing by including mental health specialists to be the lead for those appropriate situations, you might be on to something.
6. Training for LE needs to change. Staffing too. Maybe we should acknowledge that LE is a very stressful job, particularly in urban areas which have higher and more violent crime (look at the FBI stats), in those areas maybe the every day cop needs a week on and a week off to help mentally. There is a reason why LE in general has much higher rates of mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, domestic violence compared to the general population. It is a stressful job.
7. Most people in LE are good people.
8. We need to do a better job of removing bad cops. Too many times we have these horrible LE incidents and the bad cop has a history of excessive force and poor judgement yet is still employed. I coach at the local high school, talk to the teachers and they can tell you the 5 kids in the school that they are afraid of and if there is a school shooting it will be one of those kids. Somehow, the kids are still in school. Talk to a teacher right now about how discipline works for kids, its a joke. One teacher at the local middle school told me how the kids like to build towers out of crap in the bath room. The school refuses to discipline the kids. I live in a very white conservative area.
9. My biggest frustration is you cannot even have a conversation with people today without offending someone. Too many people want nothing to do with you if you do not agree with them. I have no idea how we as a society move forward if we cannot even have a discussion. Sad.
10. Treat all people with respect and dignity
11. Be kind
12. Treat people the way you want to be treated
13. I believe in the rights of the individual, focus on that and you do not have to worry about different groups since we are all individuals and have the same rights.
14. I am 53, I tell my kids the issues today were also the issue of 35 years ago, nothing changes. Remember that when you vote because no matter your party affiliation, the same political leaders saying they can fix it today were also saying they could fix it 35 years ago.
15. I acknowledge I do have all the answers, maybe not any answers.
16. I said enough, time to cut the grass

 

[nitlion6]

ah, lets keep it real and remember that the night before they cleared out the peaceful??? protestors from Lafayette park, 60, 60!! secret service agents were injured from the peaceful protesters ?? throwing bricks and water bottles filled with cement. The peaceful protesters angle is for a lot of low information people who just watch MSNBC!!! Come get me,. I think we need to agree to disagree and end these non wrestling posts!!

No they were not injured by the peaceful protesters.

 

[dicemen99]

Here is a tweet from Kirstie Alley that sums up the situation right now...

View embedded media

My thoughts exactly.

I should probably stop right now, but what the heck:
1. Kaepernick is out of the NFL because he wants to be. He terminated his contract with the 49ers. He then expected another team to give him starter money and position when he just came off of a stretch of 4 and 15 as a starter. The Ravens almost signed him as a backup, that was scuttled with his girl friend attacked the owner and called Ray Lewis an uncle Tom and Kap stayed quiet. At this point he has been out of the league too long to get nothing more than a camp invite and he is not interested in that. He loses credibility when he wears socks depicting the cops as pigs.
2. My issue with the kneeling is that I believe political speech should be kept out of the work place. My employer does not allow it, we have a diverse work force that functions well. Once you allow it, then all political speech has to be allowed. Anybody want to see a white power or Nazi salute during the national anthem? Would anybody be offended and complain if an employee of a store was wearing a MAGA hat, most likely would be complaints. Simple as that. No problem if the anybody engages in peaceful political speech outside the work place. The 1st amendment is all about the right to criticize the government which is why as a political conservative I oppose flag burning amendments.
3. I do not trust law enforcement, look at what the FBI did to General Flynn. Sadly, many liberals have not even heard of it. I am also a white conservative how knows about police nonsense from a personal level. I have been bounced off the wall, cuffed, finger printed, mugshot, have to post bail and then have the police officer have to admit in court he did not see me do anything. I tell my kids, you do not talk to the police without a lawyer present, if you do your an idiot. Did I say I am a white conservative.
4. BLM losses me when they only focus on the black lives lost. Tony Timpa choked to death by the Dallas police, Daniel Shaver, Justin Damond just to name a few, all white, all killed by the cops, no protests. Heck Damond was killed by a black Minneapolis cop a few years ago and it took 6 months to charge the cop. Curious minds would like to know why it took 6 months. Not a peep from BLM regarding David Dorn or WIlliam Patterson, black men protecting property killed by rioters. The sad thing is that the most danger to a black person in the USA today is another black person.
5. Defund the police, what a stupid idea. I live in the Baltimore area, right now you cannot walk around any part of Baltimore without your head on a swivel. It is sad. I coach at a track club in the suburbs, had a black mother and father tell me, they stay out of Baltimore. Most of my black co-workers avoid Baltimore. Just imagine if there are not cops. Now if you are talking improving policing by including mental health specialists to be the lead for those appropriate situations, you might be on to something.
6. Training for LE needs to change. Staffing too. Maybe we should acknowledge that LE is a very stressful job, particularly in urban areas which have higher and more violent crime (look at the FBI stats), in those areas maybe the every day cop needs a week on and a week off to help mentally. There is a reason why LE in general has much higher rates of mental health issues, drug/alcohol abuse, domestic violence compared to the general population. It is a stressful job.
7. Most people in LE are good people.
8. We need to do a better job of removing bad cops. Too many times we have these horrible LE incidents and the bad cop has a history of excessive force and poor judgement yet is still employed. I coach at the local high school, talk to the teachers and they can tell you the 5 kids in the school that they are afraid of and if there is a school shooting it will be one of those kids. Somehow, the kids are still in school. Talk to a teacher right now about how discipline works for kids, its a joke. One teacher at the local middle school told me how the kids like to build towers out of crap in the bath room. The school refuses to discipline the kids. I live in a very white conservative area.
9. My biggest frustration is you cannot even have a conversation with people today without offending someone. Too many people want nothing to do with you if you do not agree with them. I have no idea how we as a society move forward if we cannot even have a discussion. Sad.
10. Treat all people with respect and dignity
11. Be kind
12. Treat people the way you want to be treated
13. I believe in the rights of the individual, focus on that and you do not have to worry about different groups since we are all individuals and have the same rights.
14. I am 53, I tell my kids the issues today were also the issue of 35 years ago, nothing changes. Remember that when you vote because no matter your party affiliation, the same political leaders saying they can fix it today were also saying they could fix it 35 years ago.
15. I acknowledge I do have all the answers, maybe not any answers.
16. I said enough, time to cut the grass

I would consider myself a moderate liberal and I thank you for this post.

You make a lot of good points. There may be a few that I don't see eye to eye with you on, particularly #4, but they are presented in an intelligent and reasonable stance.

My thought is that the vast majority of Americans occupy the political space between you and I. But historically the conversation is dominated by those outside that space. Which is not always a bad thing.

Unfortunately circumstances have aligned to create a dangerous situation for our future. We have advanced technologically to the point where our conversation channels can be weaponized by either side of the divide. And we have elected an administration - with all of the symbolic power that brings with it - which embraces this concept. This only serves to embolden both sides of the divide.

We're still here in force. Reasonable, logical, moral, educated and less-educated, religious and secular, people of all color. Faced with an unrelenting cacophony calling us to take sides.

I've still got a lot of faith. This isn't the first time we had a country in crisis - and make no mistake, we are in crisis. But uncomfortable situations tend to result in the most progress. We get to see much more clearly what we want, and more importantly what we don't want our country to be. Sometimes the middle needs a wake up call.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I would consider myself a moderate liberal and I thank you for this post.

You make a lot of good points. There may be a few that I don't see eye to eye with you on, particularly #4, but they are presented in an intelligent and reasonable stance.

My thought is that the vast majority of Americans occupy the political space between you and I. But historically the conversation is dominated by those outside that space. Which is not always a bad thing.

Unfortunately circumstances have aligned to create a dangerous situation for our future. We have advanced technologically to the point where our conversation channels can be weaponized by either side of the divide. And we have elected an administration - with all of the symbolic power that brings with it - which embraces this concept. This only serves to embolden both sides of the divide.

We're still here in force. Reasonable, logical, moral, educated and less-educated, religious and secular, people of all color. Faced with an unrelenting cacophony calling us to take sides.

I've still got a lot of faith. This isn't the first time we had a country in crisis - and make no mistake, we are in crisis. But uncomfortable situations tend to result in the most progress. We get to see much more clearly what we want, and more importantly what we don't want our country to be. Sometimes the middle needs a wake up call.

Your bit about the weaponization of communication channels is spot on. Not to go all Godwin’s law here, but can you imagine what an evil genius like Goebbels could have done with Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc at his disposal.